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Verizon Wireless Growth Slows Courtesy of T-Mobile, AT&T
by Karl Bode 12:23PM Thursday Apr 24 2014
Verizon's earnings released this morning indicate that the company posted a first-quarter profit of nearly $4 billion, on revenues of $30.8 billion. Verizon's earnings were helped by the company's recent acquisition of Vodafone's 45% Verizon Wireless stake, but overall Verizon added a slightly lower-than-expected 549,000 total net new customers. Verizon's postpaid additions were down 20.4% from the 677,000 postpaid customer additions Verizon reported one year earlier.

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That's something Verizon CFO Fran Shammo states was courtesy of competitive pressures (read: T-Mobile, and AT&T's responses to T-Mobile) resulting in slower feature phone growth in particular.

The slower growth and lower-than-expected adds put Verizon Wireless in the position of either retaining their "our network is so superior we don't have to seriously compete on price" attitude at the cost of more losses, or ramping up their promotions and reducing prices to keep pace with T-Mobile disruption.

The idea that Verizon may have to actually compete on price is something that's terrified stock jocks for months.

On the fixed-line side, Verizon's growth also slowed as they continue to (quite intentionally) lose un-upgraded DSL users to cable. The company added 98,000 net new FiOS Internet connections and 57,000 net new FiOS video connections on the quarter.

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topics flat nest 

why60loss

join:2012-09-20

This is why T-mobile needs to stay.

If Sprint gets to buy T-Mobile now, it will only let AT&T and Verizon go back to jacking rates even higher with no value added.

vat

@204.108.96.x

1 recommendation

Re: This is why T-mobile needs to stay.

What you mean with no value added? They will be value added fees!

DaveDude
No Fear

join:1999-09-01
New Jersey
kudos:1

we are Verizon and we dont need you

Verizon doesnt need customers, they are top guy. Also there ancient cdma tech, and just starting to convert to GSM/LTE. People like verizon because they were told to. I hope Tmoble gets alot larger.

hamburglar_

join:2002-04-29
united state
Reviews:
·ObiVoice

Re: we are Verizon and we dont need you

said by DaveDude:

VPeople like verizon because they were told to. I hope Tmoble gets alot larger.

For some, that may be true. After being a Sprint customer for 3+ years, having a service that generally just works is important. They are not perfect, by far, but I have 4 lines and have yet to drop a single call... anywhere. I've seen slower data in spots, but overall no complaints.

IMO, AIO is the sweet spot right now (I know it's ATT). Good coverage and cheap price with no limit on data usage, just throttled after your cap. 2.5GB $45/month, taxes included, is hard to beat including real coverage outside metros.

battleop

join:2005-09-28
00000
"People like verizon because they were told to."

No one told me to like them. Their stuff works every place I go so that's all I care about. I really don't care what carrier I'm on as ling as it work like I need for it to work.
--
I do not, have not, and will not work for AT&T/Comcast/Verizon/Charter or similar sized company.
norm

join:2012-10-18
Pittsburgh, PA
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
said by DaveDude:

Verizon doesnt need customers, they are top guy. Also there ancient cdma tech, and just starting to convert to GSM/LTE. People like verizon because they were told to. I hope Tmoble gets alot larger.

Well, my girlfriend and I switched from Verizon to T-Mobile just a few days ago. So far, things are working quite well. A friend of mine on Verizon is planning on switching to T-Mobile within a month or so from Verizon and I have two friends on AT&T that are waiting for their joint contract to be up before they switch to T-Mobile.
ISurfTooMuch

join:2007-04-23
Tuscaloosa, AL

1 recommendation

said by DaveDude:

People like verizon because they were told to.

No, I'm on Verizon because their service works better here than any other carrier. Here's the rundown of the others:

AT&T: Used to be good, but their network has greatly deteriorated here. Dropped calls, network busies, inconsistent data, you name it. We paid the ETF on two lines to get away from them.
Sprint: Oh God, not them. Generally horrible, and, last time I checked, we don't have LTE here.
T-Mobile: OK service, but users have told me that in-building penetration is problematic. Also, not much coverage out of town or off the interstate.
Southern LINC: Great coverage, but they're iDEN, so their phones are awful. One of the last iDEN carriers left, so good luck getting any decent devices. Some newer devices use AT&T to get usable data, since there's no working solution for fast data on iDEN. See above for the problems we had with AT&T's network.

That's it in terms of my choices. Verizon offers 4G just about everywhere around here, even in rural areas, and calls very rarely drop. Expensive? Yes. Overpriced? Possibly. But show me where I have a viable alternative at this point.
openbox9
Premium
join:2004-01-26
Germany
kudos:2
said by DaveDude:

Also there ancient cdma tech, and just starting to convert to GSM/LTE.

So, Verizon leading the upgrade to LTE qualifies as "just starting" in your view?

DaveDude
No Fear

join:1999-09-01
New Jersey
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Comcast

Re: we are Verizon and we dont need you

said by openbox9:

said by DaveDude:

Also there ancient cdma tech, and just starting to convert to GSM/LTE.

So, Verizon leading the upgrade to LTE qualifies as "just starting" in your view?

Yes because HSPA is almost as fast as LTE, and can do data/voice, and it cost less, then verizon.
openbox9
Premium
join:2004-01-26
Germany
kudos:2

Re: we are Verizon and we dont need you

The point is that VZ isn't just starting to upgrade to LTE. It was one of the first carriers around the world to begin the transition. It doesn't matter where something is coming from, but rather where it is going, IMO.

DaveDude
No Fear

join:1999-09-01
New Jersey
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Comcast

Re: we are Verizon and we dont need you

said by openbox9:

The point is that VZ isn't just starting to upgrade to LTE. It was one of the first carriers around the world to begin the transition. It doesn't matter where something is coming from, but rather where it is going, IMO.

because Verizon had to, otherwise they would have the slowest data. HSPA is almost as fast as LTE. Verizon CDMA had no chance against HSPA or LTE. So Verizon waved the white flag, that cdma was inferior.
--
They Live... We Sleep...

“Spreading the wealth around” never results in a better outcome for people. It always results in destruction.

openbox9
Premium
join:2004-01-26
Germany
kudos:2

Re: we are Verizon and we dont need you

So? Technologies advance all of the time. Verizon understood this and led the world with upgrades to LTE.

DaveDude
No Fear

join:1999-09-01
New Jersey
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Comcast

1 recommendation

Re: we are Verizon and we dont need you

said by openbox9:

So? Technologies advance all of the time. Verizon understood this and led the world with upgrades to LTE.

Verizon had to rush to install LTE , but for ATT and Tmobile didnt because HSPA is almost as fast as LTE. If verizon didnt, they would be stuck on slow cdma. Do you work in the marketing department ?
openbox9
Premium
join:2004-01-26
Germany
kudos:2

Re: we are Verizon and we dont need you

So why did AT&T "rush" to upgrade to LTE shortly after Verizon did? Why is T-mobile "rushing" to upgrade to LTE when it already had the "fastest" wireless service in the country? It doesn't take a marketing background to understand that Verizon was the first major wireless carrier in the world to embrace LTE.

DaveDude
No Fear

join:1999-09-01
New Jersey
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Comcast

1 recommendation

Re: we are Verizon and we dont need you

»www.phonearena.com/news/T-Mobile···_id31387

In speed tests conducted by PC Magazine, T-Mobile's HSPA+ 42Mbps 4G network beat Verizon's 4G LTE network in 11 cities. What does PC Magazine think about T-Mobile's HSPA+ service? "It's really fast, covers a lot of the country and is inexpensive," says the publication. Taking it even further, PC Magazine says that with this type of speed available to its customers, the nation's fourth largest carrier doesn't really need an LTE network except to have the additional spectrum and for marketing purposes. Anyone who thinks that T-Mobile's HSPA+ 42Mbps network doesn't belong in the same conversation as LTE should probably take a look at the numbers
--
They Live... We Sleep...

“Spreading the wealth around” never results in a better outcome for people. It always results in destruction.

openbox9
Premium
join:2004-01-26
Germany
kudos:2

Re: we are Verizon and we dont need you

That doesn't really answer any of my questions.

kfsutops
Premium
join:2002-08-19
Tampa, FL

Not suprised

I think the growth will get even slower for Verizon. They are pricing themselves out of the market for business customers.

My company will not renew/replace and service with Verizon because of there higher than everybody else pricing. Going through it now. Phone died. Told, she we can replace, but we won't through Verizon.

Phone being ported over this week.
--
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a LOT of inquisitive idiots"
rebus9

join:2002-03-26
Tampa Bay
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
·Bright House

Re: Not suprised

said by kfsutops:

I think the growth will get even slower for Verizon. They are pricing themselves out of the market for business customers.

My company will not renew/replace and service with Verizon because of there higher than everybody else pricing.

We went through this at $DAYJOB in 2013. Were with VZ for many years, then AT&T came knocking. They (ATT) rolled out the red carpet, gave us a LOT of stuff for free, and absolutely smoked VZ's renewal offer-- literally, saved us about $10k per month.

VZ rep didn't seem to care, didn't even try to retain the account. (This was not a small account, either.) My guess is they only make decent commission on the original sale, and little to nothing if the account renews.

He'll probably call us acting like our new best friend in 2015 when the AT&T contract is due to expire.

SpottedCat

join:2004-06-27
Miami, FL

"our network is so superior we don't have to seriously compete on price"

That whole idea that their network is superior is rather outdated.

- They are still using an outdated protocol (CDMA2000) for voice and 3G data traffic. The other providers have moved on with their voice ntworks, running HSPA+ across most of their networks.
- You still can't do voice and data at the same time thanks to the outdated protocol. EVEN WHEN YOU HAVE AN LTE CONNECTION!

Maybe their network was the best a few years ago, but AT&T has caught up, and T-Mobile is rapidly catching up. They better start competing on price soon or they're going to lose customers in droves.

amarryat
Verizon FiOS

join:2005-05-02
Marshfield, MA

Re: "our network is so superior we don't have to seriously compete on price"

They have coverage though. And in addition to that, LTE where no one else does.

scott2020

join:2008-07-20
MO

Re: "our network is so superior we don't have to seriously compete on price"

At my vacation place where my in-laws are full time residents, we have the option of Verizon or nothing. In rural areas, Verizon rules hands down, mainly due to acquisitions of smaller rural carriers who at one point in history actually DID care about serving rural America. And no, we aren't moving thanks.
--
+++ATH0
ISurfTooMuch

join:2007-04-23
Tuscaloosa, AL
In Verizon's defense, most every CDMA carrier is in the same position. Sprint still uses the same voice/3G configuration, as does U.S. Cellular and the smaller CDMA carriers. The only ones that I know of that bailed completely on CDMA were Telus, Bell, and a carrier in Mexico whose name escapes me.

As I understand it, Verizon's plan is to finish deploying LTE and then turn on VoLTE as a gradual replacement for CDMA. That's still a little way off, but you can't expect them to simply abandon CDMA right now and have to replace all those devices out there with GSM models.
amungus
Premium
join:2004-11-26
America
Reviews:
·Cox HSI
·KCH Cable
"...an outdated protocol (CDMA2000) for voice and 3G data traffic."
........that still happens to work quite well in many, many cases.

Say what you will about them, but CDMA is still a great technology, and in America, still has far greater, and far better coverage than GSM.

HSPA(+) exists, yes, but it has nowhere near the footprint that CDMA does.

Personally, I don't care that much about voice + data at the same time. If I'm having a conversation with somebody, chances are good that I'm not going to also be surfing on my phone at the same time. Sure, it'd be handy once in awhile, but in most situations, it's not by any means necessary, or even nice to have.
It does, in fact, work on some devices, as well as when wi-fi is available, so it's not even a big deal to me.
itguy05

join:2005-06-17
Carlisle, PA

Re: "our network is so superior we don't have to seriously compete on price"

quote:
Say what you will about them, but CDMA is still a great technology, and in America, still has far greater, and far better coverage than GSM.
Doubtful. AT&T is all GSM and they cover roughly the same size as Verizon. CDMA is a decent tech with horrible voice quality (at least on Verizon) and decent reach.

MovieLover76

join:2009-09-11
kudos:1

Re: "our network is so superior we don't have to seriously compete on price"

I agree, i'm much happier with T-mobile voice quality than Verizon.
Verizons was worse than t-mobile and AT&T
tooch

join:2007-09-17
Bradley Beach, NJ
You can do voice and data simultaneously over LTE. I've been on phone calls and used various data-requiring apps. 3G or 1X though, it's not happening.

MovieLover76

join:2009-09-11
kudos:1

Re: "our network is so superior we don't have to seriously compete on price"

as long as you dont have an iphone then yes

DaveDude
No Fear

join:1999-09-01
New Jersey
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Comcast

Re: "our network is so superior we don't have to seriously compete on price"

said by tooch:

You can do voice and data simultaneously over LTE. I've been on phone calls and used various data-requiring apps. 3G or 1X though, it's not happening.

Unless you are on hspa which can do voice and data over 3g , which is almost as fast as lte.

IowaCowboy
Iowa native
Premium
join:2010-10-16
Springfield, MA
kudos:1

If I move to Maine

If I move to Maine should I switch to US Cellular or keep Verizon.

I'm thinking of keeping Verizon.
--
Stop the Comcast-Time Warner merger, I'd rather Time Warner buy out Comcast.
amungus
Premium
join:2004-11-26
America
Reviews:
·Cox HSI
·KCH Cable

Re: If I move to Maine

Sure, switch to U.S. Cellular if you want zero 4G roaming, customer service that has gone so far downhill that it might as well not exist, and a wonderful new billing system that can't catch up with itself, leaving you with nothing but confused bills, extra fees they can't explain, and did I mention NO 4G roaming, and VERY limited 3G data roaming??

why60loss

join:2012-09-20
Reviews:
·Comcast
·Time Warner Cable
·Verizon Wireless..
said by IowaCowboy:

If I move to Maine should I switch to US Cellular or keep Verizon.

I'm thinking of keeping Verizon.

If you have an unlimited data plan, keep Verizon. other wise think about dumping them for T-Mobile or AT&T. I know at lest in Ohio AT&T works better than Verizon. I think AT&T does a better job than Verizon in the NE market from what I have seen and what other users have said themselves on Verizon's own forum.

As for US cellular, there map is the biggest liar I have ever seen. Do not sign up for them unless you have really tested there network in the area(s) you plan to use it in.

IowaCowboy
Iowa native
Premium
join:2010-10-16
Springfield, MA
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Verizon Broadban..
·Comcast
I'll probably stick with Verizon then. It's just I had US Cellular in Iowa and the pricing is reasonable.

I like Verizon the best out of the big four.
--
Stop the Comcast-Time Warner merger, I'd rather Time Warner buy out Comcast.
openbox9
Premium
join:2004-01-26
Germany
kudos:2

No loss in subs

said by Karl Bode:

in the position of either retaining their "our network is so superior we don't have to seriously compete on price" attitude at the cost of more losses, or ramping up their promotions and reducing prices to keep pace with T-Mobile disruption.

Karl, there was no loss. YoY growth in revenue and earning with a decrease in wireless sub adds does not equal a loss. Churn ticked up slightly, but Verizon still has the lowest rate in the industry.

chlen
Ethically Challenged
Premium
join:2001-01-16
Saratoga, NY

ATT is just cheaper and kind of better

Once I found out that having LTE in my area and still not using anywhere close to 10GB between lines was the case I dropped Sprint.

I have TMO now, which is good LTE in the immediate area, but is 2G the second you are out of town. I pay a total of $146 all in for 3 lines 2 with 3GB and 1 with 5.

However I will be going to ATT since they work everywhere and have great LTE coverage from here to Boston and NYC, ATT will be 145 for 10GB between 3 people and I get 22% union discount.

So ATT for me.

Verizon is just the best. My work phone is VZ. It works in every corner of the state and even in the damn finger lakes I had LTE. ATT is very close.

People pay extra for Verizon because it works. Most dont give a shit about ancient CDMA or capacity of 700mhz LTE, they want to surf and make calls.

ATT and VZ do this best.

Most of my friends are in NYC and Boston, and they can chose sprint and tmo, but you step out of those cities and back to 2G.
--
This is not the greatest post in the world, no, this is just a tribute!

-
itguy05

join:2005-06-17
Carlisle, PA

Re: ATT is just cheaper and kind of better

quote:
I have TMO now, which is good LTE in the immediate area, but is 2G the second you are out of town.
If you hang in a little longer they plan to have 50% of 2G up to LTE by the end of this year and finishing up by 2015.

»www.cnet.com/news/t-mobile-to-up···verizon/

Given the speed that they went from 0 to decent LTE most think they will make that target.

chlen
Ethically Challenged
Premium
join:2001-01-16
Saratoga, NY

Re: ATT is just cheaper and kind of better

No more waiting game, I waited long enough with sprint , I'm not under contract and can go back to tmo if they their act toghether. I can't walk into a Lowe's and compare prices because I loose signal in buildingo immediately

chip89
Premium
join:2012-07-05
Independence, OH

ETF

Verizon paid my ETF fees for all my phone lines!