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Verizon Wireless Picks 100Mbps LTE
Trials begin next year

At the moment, there's three front-runners for the fourth-generation wireless broadband crown: 3GPP LTE (Long Term Evolution), mobile WiMax and 3GPP2 UMB (Ultra Mobile Broadband). All three standards will offer low latency and theoretical max speeds that will eventually make current US EVDO and HSDPA speeds (and even some home landline connections) seem anemic. However, LTE is officially leading the 4G push.

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Sprint, of course, is hitching their wagon to Mobile WiMax under the Xohm name. AT&T has said they're planning on migrating toward LTE. Verizon Wireless had hinted they were veering toward LTE as well, the same standard being eyed by GSM/HSPA partner Vodafone. Today Verizon made the decision official, a company spokesman telling us that trials will begin next year.
quote:
Verizon today announced plans to develop and deploy its fourth generation mobile broadband network using LTE – Long Term Evolution – the technology developed within the Third Generation Partnership Project (3GPP) standards organization. The selection of LTE provides Verizon and Vodafone – joint owners of U.S.-based Verizon Wireless – with a unique opportunity to adopt a common access platform with true global scale and compatibility with existing technologies of both companies.
LTE is theoretically capable of speeds up to 100Mbps with latency as low as 20ms, and the switch will mean a migration from CDMA to GSM. However, you likely won't be seeing this technology in the wild until around 2010 or later, and likely at speeds nowhere near 100Mbps at first.
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matrix3D
join:2006-09-27
Middletown, CT

1 recommendation

matrix3D

Member

Great... what will be the catch?

Great... so I guess this means you'll be able to run up that $1,000+ data bill in a fraction of a second instead of it taking an hour or so.

en102
Canadian, eh?
join:2001-01-26
Valencia, CA

en102

Member

Re: Great... what will be the catch?

That means Verizon Wireless will converge with the rest of the world on technology, using LTE, which is a 3GSM proposed path.

inteller
Sociopaths always win.
join:2003-12-08
Tulsa, OK

inteller

Member

ruh roh....Spent isn't looking so good right now.

Finally two heavyweights are going to the same technology....is WiMAX the iDEN of the future? It is starting to look that way!

BillRoland
Premium Member
join:2001-01-21
Ocala, FL

BillRoland

Premium Member

Re: ruh roh....Spent isn't looking so good right now.

said by inteller:

Finally two heavyweights are going to the same technology....is WiMAX the iDEN of the future? It is starting to look that way!
Looks more like CDMA is the iDEN of the future.

en102
Canadian, eh?
join:2001-01-26
Valencia, CA

en102

Member

Re: ruh roh....Spent isn't looking so good right now.

That would make iDEN the AMPS of the future

huntml
join:2002-01-23
Mullica Hill, NJ

1 edit

huntml to inteller

Member

to inteller
Maybe. But I doubt it, because mobile WiMax is already deployed *now* in some places and partially built now in the US.

Assuming Sprint and Clearwire continue with announced plans, there will be significant Mobile WiMax coverage in the US while VZW's and ATTM's LTE efforts are still on the drawing board.

This being the case, it may be that by the time the first LTE networks are built and the first LTE devices are in consumers' hands, WiMax will be a solidly entrenched product.

Plus, you have to remember that a number of major mfgs. (Intel, Samsung, Moto) have already announced intentions to support mobile WiMax, while there has been no such announcement for LTE products.

In short, it is way too early to say how this is going to play out.
xenophon
join:2007-09-17

xenophon

Member

Re: ruh roh....Spent isn't looking so good right now.

You have to consider that the WiMAX and LTE business models are completely different even though the technology is about the same.

WiMAX is about being on any kind of consumer device, not just phones/laptop cards. WiMAX is about being open like WiFi, where the ISP doesn't know what kind of device is connecting.

LTE will likely head down the carrier controlled path and limited to carrier approved devices rather than open to consumer product makers, who would probably still need to test/approve with the carrier. WiMAX product makers don't need to deal with carrier, as WiFi makers don't have that issue.

huntml
join:2002-01-23
Mullica Hill, NJ

huntml

Member

Re: ruh roh....Spent isn't looking so good right now.

All true, which is why I think that the way WiMax is being deployed is a much better thing for us consumers than LTE.

en102
Canadian, eh?
join:2001-01-26
Valencia, CA

en102

Member

Re: ruh roh....Spent isn't looking so good right now.

I tend to agree... as long as Big telco bases devices as voice+data, cost will be high
If wireless networks are built/accessible for non-specific data uses, where there's little cost or regulation, it will be used by many more 'devices'.
This will bring in the gap of 'WiFi' style plans/devices vs. Cellular style plans/devices.
Sprint 'can' do a winfall if they act fast, and can cover issues such as roaming on WiMAX w/o having to purchase expensive cellular data plans.

huntml
join:2002-01-23
Mullica Hill, NJ

huntml

Member

Re: ruh roh....Spent isn't looking so good right now.

Of course, all the long-term evolutionary paths for mobile I've seen have everything going to IP-based structures, even voice. How are they going to justify traditional mobile plans, denying people use of things like VoIP, etc., when they'll essentially be handling all their own voice traffic via VoIP?

Interesting times ahead, I think.

en102
Canadian, eh?
join:2001-01-26
Valencia, CA

en102

Member

Re: ruh roh....Spent isn't looking so good right now.

I agree... pretty much all mobile will be IP based.. the question is, how open will these carriers be, and how reliable/available will their services be?
Verizon Wireless has typically been the most closed
AT&T has been more open than VZW, but is still restrictive.
Sprint has been pretty open
T-Mobile has been fairly open as well
Nextel isn't very open, although I did run SSH over by Blackberry.
xenophon
join:2007-09-17

xenophon to huntml

Member

to huntml
said by huntml:

All true, which is why I think that the way WiMax is being deployed is a much better thing for us consumers than LTE.
Yea, LTE is about carrier first, device maker second,

consumer last.

Wimax is about the carrier, device maker and consumer on the level with no one in control. The only common ground is the IEEE specification, which none of them specifically control.

Verizon sez they'll lead to 'any device, any app' but it will be limited to as Verizon sees fit. I doubt they'll get as many consumer device makers to participate to the degree of WiMAX, which needs no interaction with the carrier.

That's huge when you think of the entire development lifecycle of a product. Needing to involve the carrier can really get in the way.

adisor19
join:2004-10-11

adisor19

Member

Well well well

Looks like Qualcom will loose some of their yearly tribute. About time cell services providers wake up and ditch Qualcom !

Adi

huntml
join:2002-01-23
Mullica Hill, NJ

huntml

Member

Re: Well well well

As I understand it, Qualcom has patents that are licensed by W-CDMA mfgs. too, though not as many as in the CDMA world. And those patents will probably also be needed by HSOPA technologies as well, as I understand it. So as much as dislike them as a company, they won't be out of the game for a while yet.

rbrussell82
join:2003-04-19
Elgin, IL

rbrussell82

Member

Build Out 3G First

I can't believe all the talk about 4G, between Sprint and WiMAX and VZW and AT&T using LTE. None of them offer nationwide 3G yet. They all offer 1X (or EDGE) on their nationwide network. Sprint by far has more EVDO/3G coverage than any other carrier, but its still far from being nationwide.

Is this what its going to be like in the future? Unless you live in a major market, you're screwed for getting these kinds of speeds. I'm lucky that Sprint offers good EVDO coverage in my area, considering I'm not really near a major city (about 1.5-2 hours west of Chicago). AT&T and VZW don't offer 3G here yet, and I'm not looking for them to.

I'm sure they're not going to offer 4G in areas that don't even have 3G yet, so there is no point to this debate for a lot of people.
xenophon
join:2007-09-17

1 edit

xenophon

Member

Re: Build Out 3G First

said by rbrussell82:

Sprint by far has more EVDO/3G coverage than any other carrier, but its still far from being nationwide.
Sprint plans to hit 230m population coverage by end of this year - the voice network is about 255-260m. They may have near 100% network converted next year as even the affiliates like iPCS are adding EVDO.

Sprint also roams on Alltel EVDO while Verizon does not, which does put Sprint way ahead of everyone else in 3G coverage.

en102
Canadian, eh?
join:2001-01-26
Valencia, CA

en102

Member

Re: Build Out 3G First

That's paritally because Sprint's own network is much smaller than anyone elses, and has less to upgrade.
xenophon
join:2007-09-17

1 edit

xenophon

Member

Re: Build Out 3G First

said by en102:

That's paritally because Sprint's own network is much smaller than anyone elses, and has less to upgrade.
Completely wrong. Sprint has over 30,000 CDMA cellsites and >45K total sites (including iDen). Verizon has under 30K sites. Both cover about 255-260m population with voice. Sprint's CDMA/iDen total footprint is about 268m, much larger than Verizon's.

You may have missed the memo but Sprint has been adding CDMA to thousands of Nextel iDen sites the last couple of years.

CaptainRR
Premium Member
join:2006-04-21
Blue Rock, OH

CaptainRR

Premium Member

Re: Build Out 3G First

Don't forget it takes 4 PCS cell sites to cover the same ground that 1 cellular cell covers!
xenophon
join:2007-09-17

3 edits

xenophon

Member

Re: Build Out 3G First

True for voice, but for data, 800mhz needs more cellsites too in many situations. In reality, 800mhz is not covering as much ground as it is spec'd to as it depends on tower output actually used, but it does penetrate buildings better.

Problem with data over 800mhz covering an area 4x larger is that it has the potential to have 4X number of users than multiple 1900mhz sites covering same area. There still needs to be many 800mhz sites for capacity reasons.

This may explain why Sprint EVDO performance and latency is a little better than Verizon's.

en102
Canadian, eh?
join:2001-01-26
Valencia, CA

en102 to xenophon

Member

to xenophon
Click for full size
Having many sites in local areas gives great local coverage.
Having not much available outside of metros and interstates doesn't work well for everyone. I don't consider 'roaming' as part of the network, as there are typically stipulations on roaming allowance, and I couldn't purchase service there if I wanted to.
In my area, they added iDEN to PCS towers, and built new iDEN only sites.

huntml
join:2002-01-23
Mullica Hill, NJ

3 edits

huntml

Member

Re: Build Out 3G First

said by en102:

I don't consider 'roaming' as part of the network, as there are typically stipulations on roaming allowance
Certainly roaming isn't part of the network, but as a user all I care about is that I have coverage where I need it, and Sprint's roaming policies allow for this. Basically, you can roam up to 50% of the time with no penalty. Granted, if you live in an area where you have no/marginal native Sprint coverage, they're probably not the best carrier for you; but realistically, none of the other big carriers are covering those areas very well either, and they are most likely served by smaller/regional carriers. There just aren't enough people in those areas for the big national carriers to go after them.

Plus, it being the case that one *does* live in an area covered by a regional carrier, I'd much rather be on a CDMA network (Alltel or USCC or iPCS) and be able to roam on Sprint and/or VZW for voice and data (high speed data, in Sprint's case) than be a sub on some smaller GSM carrier, most of whom, I think don't have native networks or devices that support UMTS, even if you could find it on a GSM roaming partner (the only one being ATTM and their coverage being well behind Sprint's or VZ's EVDO buildouts).

Overall, as a Sprint sub, I would put the quality of my effective coverage -- in voice and in data -- on a par with or ahead of anyone's in the US. That's what matters to me.

en102
Canadian, eh?
join:2001-01-26
Valencia, CA

en102

Member

Re: Build Out 3G First

As an AT&T and Nextel sub, I'd put my coverage on AT&T as being on par or better than most. I typically don't use data, so having EVDO or UMTS doesn't really matter to me (I use my phone as a phone). My Nextel call quality has improved a bit, and they even have a site ~250' closer than AT&T does, but calls break up (people tell me my calls break up) more often on Sprint/Nextel iDEN than they do on AT&T GSM and UMTS.
xenophon
join:2007-09-17

xenophon

Member

Re: Build Out 3G First

said by en102:

I typically don't use data, so having EVDO or UMTS doesn't really matter to me (I use my phone as a phone).
Dude, the topic is data. Fess up, Sprint is leading when it comes to data.

en102
Canadian, eh?
join:2001-01-26
Valencia, CA

en102

Member

Re: Build Out 3G First

Topic is LTE
UMTS handles both data and voice (switched)
CDMA EVDO handles data and can handle VoIP
I do use a lot of iDEN data on my Nextel Blackberry 7100i

huntml
join:2002-01-23
Mullica Hill, NJ

3 edits

huntml to en102

Member

to en102
Well, everyone's different. I get good voice coverage everywhere I go: even in rare places Sprint doesn't have good voice network coverage, there's VZ, or Alltel, both of whom I have roamed on; but I push a lot more data bits through my phone than I do voice bits, so data is important to me.

And in that arena, at least in the US, where I live, the GSM carriers are *way* behind the CDMA carriers.

T-mo just announced some rather tentative 3g deployment plans after sitting still for over a year trying to figure it out, ATTM is starting to roll out HSUPA/DPA while their UMTS coverage is still spotty and most of the country is still on EDGE.

The ironic thing is, the way things are going, with this VZW announcement and Sprint's building of the WiMax network, we will probably see the two big CDMA voice carriers with a 4G data networks built or building, one of them built on the GSM evolutionary path, before there is a native GSM carrier with a fully built-out 3g network.

en102
Canadian, eh?
join:2001-01-26
Valencia, CA

en102

Member

Re: Build Out 3G First

That may be true, however, similar to most 'global' scale items (GSM/UMTS), it in general has been behind on the timelines.
UMTS deployments globally have been a couple of years slower than EVDO. Having VZW join the ranks of GSM backed LTE, they will be the tail wagging the dog.
I think the rationale behind the LTE outlook is more of a global interoperability on wireless everything.

I personally wonder which way Alltel will go. Alltel runs both CDMA 1x/EVDO and GSM networks (roaming only). They could buildout quicker than anyone.

openupshop
join:2000-11-25
Chandler, AZ

openupshop to xenophon

Member

to xenophon
Did you mention Sprint has shitty voice reception! Can you say dropped calls nationwide!!!

Sprint the carrier for people with shitty credit LOL
xenophon
join:2007-09-17

xenophon

Member

Spectrum?

Am surprised to see Verizon make a committed selection before the 700mhz auction. If they don't win much 700mhz spectrum, I wonder where they'll use LTE?

Matt3
All noise, no signal.
Premium Member
join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC

1 edit

Matt3

Premium Member

Interesting

So Verizon announces they are going to open their CDMA network to any provider/device ... then 3 days later announce plans to migrate away from CDMA to GSM?

Anyone see the irony in that?

EDIT:

Actually, now that I think about it, it's a brilliant business move. It will add an additional revenue stream to help build out the GSM network, it will provide Verizon with a revenue stream on the established, but agd, CDMA network for YEARS to come, while they can build their new GSM (ahem, closed) network and keep everything business as usual.

I think I'll up my investment in them.
xenophon
join:2007-09-17

xenophon

Member

Re: Interesting

LTE is not GSM, it's W-CDMA.

•••••••••

drbroom
@verizon.net

drbroom

Anon

GSM over CDMA

What Verizon will most likely do is the same thing that AT&T (YUCK) did... They will slowly convert by running GSM over CDMA. AT&T did it with TDMA (which really really SUCKS!!!), they ram GSM over that.

When it comes to data 3G will never get the wide release that people are looking for here in North America because the power consumption rates will never beat out the next tech that is coming... 3G vs 4G will be like the RISC CISC wars of the last 10 years. 4G will just take it all in and leap frog over.

just my $0.02

EvelKub
Kitty is crazy
Premium Member
join:2002-03-17
Mesa, AZ

EvelKub

Premium Member

OnStar

Hopefully they leave the "legacy" CDMA network up... I just got an SUV with OnStar and don't want it to go dark..