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Verizon Working With RIAA On New Warning Letters
New letter notification campaign began yesterday...
by Karl Bode 10:10AM Friday Nov 13 2009 Tipped by 33358088 See Profile
Verizon already forwards copyright notices to customers who are tagged by the entertainment industry's intelligence-gathering organizations, but they don't disclose the customer who was actually using the IP address at the time the infringement occurred. In a move that signals a ramp-up in their cooperation with the entertainment industry, CNET cites inside sources at Verizon who say the company is about to launch a new letter notification campaign in cooperation with the RIAA. The new campaign is a "test" according to the source, and doesn't include references to account termination:
quote:
The letter the RIAA will send to Verizon, and will likely be forwarded to customers, is similar to those issued in the past by other ISPs, such as AT&T, Comcast, and Cox Communications. The RIAA's letter has typically notified customers that they have been accused of illegally sharing songs and informed them that such activity is illegal. In the letter, the user is advised to delete the content they distribute. It's important to note that not included in the letter are threats of service termination or interruptions, or any talk of a "graduated response." That's the term the RIAA uses to describe a deterrent program whereby an ISP gradually ratchets up penalties or warnings to suspected file sharers.
While the entertainment industry would like to see ISPs boot heavy P2P users from their networks (ignoring the fact these are potential customers), ISPs don't want the extra cost of playing content babysitter. Companies like AT&T and Verizon have instead suggested ramping up the user notification process. Carriers like citing a 2008 UK study that claims 72% of P2P users would stop with just a warning, or a similar 2009 study that puts that number closer to 64%. But other studies have suggested that users will, as they have for the better part of a decade, continue to ignore these warnings unless they come with the threat of disconnection.

Disconnecting users for P2P use however brings up a wide variety of problems however, including who independently confirms there's no false positives, who pays for the technology, and who tracks offenders across ISPs. There's also questions concerning the overall reliability of the DMCA notification process -- as well as fairness questions in terms of smaller ISPs being unable to shoulder the added support and hardware costs. If that's not enough to chew on, imagine setting this expensive, "graduated response" initiative up with government involvement, only to see users skirt around the restrictions by using encryption.

If you're a Verizon user who receives one of these alerts please send us a copy, as it would be nice to see how they vary from the letters Verizon is already sending to its customers who engage in the trading of copyrighted film and TV programs.

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Bill Neilson
Premium
join:2009-07-08
Arlington, VA

Good. This type of actions

will probably work much better than bringing Grandma Jane to court for $500,000 and trying to make her out to be the face of piracy.

I am not saying I am FOR ISP's babysitting but I would rather this than the immediate suing

silentlooker
Premium
join:2009-11-01

Re: Good. This type of actions

Not really, pesonaly i will trash such letter.

aaronwt
Premium
join:2004-11-07
Woodbridge, VA

Re: Good. This type of actions

said by silentlooker:

Not really, pesonaly i will trash such letter.
They actually send a letter and not an email?

silentlooker
Premium
join:2009-11-01

Re: Good. This type of actions

said by aaronwt:

said by silentlooker:

Not really, pesonaly i will trash such letter.
They actually send a letter and not an email?
I would think it be a letter, not everyone use their primary isp email
NeoandGeo

join:2003-05-10
Harrison, TN

Re: Good. This type of actions

You'd be surprised. Most ISP's will just send the complaint to the email of the listed person and be done with it.

aaronwt
Premium
join:2004-11-07
Woodbridge, VA
said by silentlooker:

said by aaronwt:

said by silentlooker:

Not really, pesonaly i will trash such letter.
They actually send a letter and not an email?
I would think it be a letter, not everyone use their primary isp email
I have an email addres listed as my contact. It is not a Verizon email address so I would think they would use a contact email address, otherwise what is a contact email address for. And it's certanly cheaper than sending a letter to everyone.

Siko
Premium
join:2006-11-27
Mechanicsburg, PA
I got my warning letter via the ISP's email.

Bill Neilson
Premium
join:2009-07-08
Arlington, VA
Maybe you would but most I know would probably stop

I wouldn't but I would certainly be a bit paranoid and be much more careful
k1ll3rdr4g0n

join:2005-03-19
Homer Glen, IL

Re: Good. This type of actions

said by Bill Neilson:

Maybe you would but most I know would probably stop

I wouldn't but I would certainly be a bit paranoid and be much more careful
I'm sorry but if you get "caught" in the first place then you shouldn't be doing it in the first place. There are plenty of ways to share files and have low to no risk of getting "caught", what protocols do you think they are actively watching? Defiantly not HTTP. See what I did there?

Bill Neilson
Premium
join:2009-07-08
Arlington, VA

Re: Good. This type of actions

I haven't the faintest clue and neither would anyone I know.

I, and most I know, simply download some songs here or there or maybe a movie every now and then. Nothing major

But if we got letters telling us to stop because we had been traced, it would effect me and most quite a bit. I would probably stop.

Of course most here wouldn't I am sure but for many in the general public, it would be a little nerve racking
k1ll3rdr4g0n

join:2005-03-19
Homer Glen, IL

Re: Good. This type of actions

said by Bill Neilson:

I haven't the faintest clue and neither would anyone I know.

I, and most I know, simply download some songs here or there or maybe a movie every now and then. Nothing major

But if we got letters telling us to stop because we had been traced, it would effect me and most quite a bit. I would probably stop.

Of course most here wouldn't I am sure but for many in the general public, it would be a little nerve racking
Hint 1: »torrentfreak.com/mediadefender-e···-070915/
Hint 2: »en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MediaDefender
Hint 3: »blogcritics.org/scitech/article/···ent-war/

Let me re-ask the question.
What protocol do you think are they most interested in and have actually put up "traps" for pirates?
What protocol(s) do you think doesn't interest them as much?

Hint: The answer to the second question can be found in my first post.

If I made it any more obvious, then I would just point out places where you can get pirated material without getting caught :P.

In fact I know 2 people who used the mentioned protocol that they are watching, got the letter, and still do it.
Here's the catch though about the letters. How do you know it was something you were doing and not someone hijacking your wireless? .
Many would argue that you are still responsible, but I would disagree. If you leave a gun out and someone uses it to kill someone, were you responsible for his actions (assuming of course you didn't put it out for him to kill someone with)?

Bill Neilson
Premium
join:2009-07-08
Arlington, VA

Re: Good. This type of actions

As someone who goes to Court often, yes...someone could in fact be charged for a variety of crimes if they left out a gun and someone else used it to kill another (even without the pure intention of someone using it to kill another)...it of course depends on the circumstances of the exact case

So, I don't think that is a good example
k1ll3rdr4g0n

join:2005-03-19
Homer Glen, IL

Re: Good. This type of actions

said by Bill Neilson:

As someone who goes to Court often, yes...someone could in fact be charged for a variety of crimes if they left out a gun and someone else used it to kill another (even without the pure intention of someone using it to kill another)...it of course depends on the circumstances of the exact case

So, I don't think that is a good example
Speaking loosely of course. The same argument could really be applied to anything, just replace gun with any instrument, kitchen knife, pencil, screwdriver...ect. Yes, you could argue that by me brining a pencil into class allowed a classmate to kill another, as he took it from my hands and stabbed another student. But, then we wouldn't be speaking loosely now would we?

One could even take a step further. Lets say a criminal was using a wifi service provided by lets say a coffee shop. And they do something illegal, is the coffee shop liable? They are liable to cooperate with authorities, but does the coffee shop have to pay any damages if they didn't know their wifi was being used for illicit purposes. In fact I am sure before you can connect you have to agree to a TOS saying you wont use it for illicit purposes.

ReformCRTC
Support Your Independent ISP

join:2004-03-07
Canada
Well that's a different tone than Cary "Sue" Sherman, to be sure.

stbrandon

@charter.com

liability issues

If they are going to work with one sector to prevent an illegal activity, then they will have to work with all agencies to fight illegal activity. The cost would be on Verizon or any other Telco.

How can they go after the filesharers but not be responsible for monitoring who is watching porn (minors) or trading kiddie porn?

disconnected

@snet.net

Piracy is the New Business Dist Model [link]

According to the filmmaker for INK, distribution through 'piracy' has gotten his film the exposure it needed to go widespread:

»www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/a···e_movie/

This is an interesting dist model, not terribly unlike 60s rock group Grateful Dead, who encouraged people to tape their concerts.
bluedyedvd

join:2007-04-15
Overland Park, KS

i would not worry to much

unless verzion cut a deal with the riaa to get like free access to music service i am sure they will charge them for evey notice they send out. I sure it won't be cheap verzion does no want tharass theiir customers unless they will make money.
Mr Matt

join:2008-01-29
Eustis, FL
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Millenicom
·Embarq Now Centu..
·Comcast
·CenturyLink

How does Verizon determine which downloads are authorized?

How will Verizon differentiate between authorized and unauthorized downloads? Then of course there is the problem of false positives. Until these weasels can determine the actual identity of the person that actually downloaded unauthorized copyrighted material the copyright control agencies are violating the basic foundation of our legal system: Innocent until proved guilty. Please review the article at the following link to see how a copyright holder can abuse our legal system.

»One MPAA Complaint Closes Free Ohio Wi-Fi Network

If we use the copyright control agencies logic then if a murder is committed on the property of the president of one of the copyright control agencies, the president should be executed for the crime because it occurred on their property!

aaronwt
Premium
join:2004-11-07
Woodbridge, VA

Re: How does Verizon determine which downloads are authorized?

all they need to know is the ip address. It doesn't matter who the person was, if it came from that ip, the person that pays for service that had that IP address is responsible.
This seemed to work accurately with comcast, I see no reason why Verizon would be any different.
old_wiz_60

join:2005-06-03
Bedford, MA

Re: How does Verizon determine which downloads are authorized?

That assumes that the ISP knows who has the IP address at the time of the downloads.

aaronwt
Premium
join:2004-11-07
Woodbridge, VA

Re: How does Verizon determine which downloads are authorized?

said by old_wiz_60:

That assumes that the ISP knows who has the IP address at the time of the downloads.
They better have a record of it. The system is certainly in place to keep track of it.

silentlooker
Premium
join:2009-11-01

1 recommendation

said by aaronwt:

all they need to know is the ip address. It doesn't matter who the person was, if it came from that ip, the person that pays for service that had that IP address is responsible.
This seemed to work accurately with comcast, I see no reason why Verizon would be any different.
I will disagree with you on that point. Lets assume someone steals my car and it's used in bank robbery, am i responsible for it because it was my car?

Now lets use same analogy but this time with the router. I use wep security(cheap lock) because well i don't knowany better. Someone cracked that lock and used my router for illegal activity. Should i be accountable for someone else action that used my router ?
old_wiz_60

join:2005-06-03
Bedford, MA
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS

wouldn't be surprised...

If they go after people who have never used P2P.

Every piece of music I have on my computers is either purchased from iTunes or loaded from a CD which I purchased myself. Strangely, I believe you should purchase music rather than steal it.

Still, I wouldn't be all that surprised to get a letter claiming I have illegal stuff on my computer; the IP address for the router probably gets changed now and then and I can't picture Verizon being very good about keeping track of who has what IP address at what time.

The **AA and now apparently Verizon seem to think that anyone accused has to be guilty.

zoom314

join:2005-11-21
Yermo, CA
Reviews:
·DSL EXTREME
·Time Warner Cable

Re: wouldn't be surprised...

said by old_wiz_60:

If they go after people who have never used P2P.

Every piece of music I have on my computers is either purchased from iTunes or loaded from a CD which I purchased myself. Strangely, I believe you should purchase music rather than steal it.

Still, I wouldn't be all that surprised to get a letter claiming I have illegal stuff on my computer; the IP address for the router probably gets changed now and then and I can't picture Verizon being very good about keeping track of who has what IP address at what time.

The **AA and now apparently Verizon seem to think that anyone accused has to be guilty.
Thankfully, The diaRIAA couldn't touch Me(I'm Teflon financially It seems), Even if they knew where to look(Its a forest here), I think to them If It's on a PC, It's pirated, unless It's drmed to death and none on My PCs are drmed and yes I buy a CD when I can afford to(whether original or blank) and I don't do p2p as a CD holds a lot of mp3's on It.
--
»www.realtor.com/realestateandhom···12798476

»www.exitstrategyrealty.com/custom4.shtml
look for 37130 Calico Blvd

axiomatic

join:2006-08-23
Tomball, TX

1 recommendation

Be careful...

Better be careful Verizon... that chick you are getting in bed with (RIAA) is actually a transvestite looking to unwrap their tootsie roll for you and stick it in your RJ-45 socket.

podstolom

@kanren.net

Re: Be careful...

said by axiomatic:

Better be careful Verizon... that chick you are getting in bed with (RIAA) is actually a transvestite looking to unwrap their tootsie roll for you and stick it in your RJ-45 socket.
Actually it's a USB dongle, not a tootsie roll. And as usual in such cases, there are "compatibility issues". Wrong plug, wrong socket.

ReformCRTC
Support Your Independent ISP

join:2004-03-07
Canada

Re: Be careful...

What's the angle of your dongle?
CyrusDaVirus

join:2009-06-05
Houston, TX

ip addresses dont work

its so easy to hop on a nearby network I have like 20 networks in range and a third of them are using wep a few more wpa 1/2 wich are probly simple dictionary passphrases. if they start sending out letters how are they going to prove who is actually sharing what?

TamaraB
Question The Current Paradigm
Premium
join:2000-11-08
Da Bronx
Reviews:
·Optimum Online
·Clearwire Wireless

Re: ip addresses dont work

said by CyrusDaVirus:

.... how are they going to prove who is actually sharing what?
Unfortunately they don't have to "prove" anything to deny you service. It can be as arbitrary as they wish. It's not like you have a right to the service.

Bob
--
Would you ever go over to Czechoslovakia, and marry me daughter for me?"
33358088
Premium
join:2008-09-23
kudos:2

lets all just turn off the net

ya and lets just trade our stuff like how drug dealers do ya and we might as well get the gangs involved too ya
then they can toss us all in jail cause its all gang activity of course gangs will want some cash to move and distribute stuff

OH wait i pay for distribution when i use bit torrent or download....
Wait a minute here were all getting ripped why aint i getting paid .....
patcat88

join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY
kudos:1

Re: lets all just turn off the net

said by 33358088:

ya and lets just trade our stuff like how drug dealers do ya and we might as well get the gangs involved too ya
then they can toss us all in jail cause its all gang activity of course gangs will want some cash to move and distribute stuff
Pirated DVDs are still kicking in poor areas. There are sellers who cycle through all the fast food places all day long hawking their DVDs.
33358088
Premium
join:2008-09-23
kudos:2
yea but thats too people that aren't educated enough and because all our speeds are capped and throttled if they want to end that drop a levy on dvdrs and up the speeds and drop capping

otherwise this is proof that it just gets into criminal hands and they dont give a shit about laws that get made, like ACTA
if they can make 5-10 or more times there investment it becomes more lucrative then drugs...what you think will happen....

i'd rather a levy like system where its cheap affordable and we dont have kids dealing with gangs. HOW ABOUT YOU?

Seems to me hollywood is driving the gang land recruitment.