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Verizon to Kill Grandfathered Unlimited Plans
As Carrier Prepares to Launch LTE 'Shared Data' Plans

Back in 2010, following in lock step on the heels of AT&T, Verizon imposed cap and overage pricing on wireless data, eliminated their unlimited data plans for smartphones but "grandfathered" existing unlimited users. Speaking on a recent investor webcast, Verizon Wireless CFO Fran Shammo unsurprisingly stated that as those customers switch to LTE, they're going to be forced to give up their unlimited data plans.

Those customers will be pushed toward the company's upcoming "data share" wireless data plan (aka family plans, or pooled data plans) that will allows users to connect multiple household users or devices under one plan. It's an idea that's absurdly overdue, but it may arrive with quite a pricing punch.

As we've discussed, you can expect that these new shared data plans will come with some significant caveats and fees, as the company looks to avoid the revenues gleaned from forcing each user and tablet to have its own data plan. On that same conference call, Shammo stated that he believes they'll make up most of the losses because more people will connect more devices to the network:
quote:
Verizon Chief Financial Officer Fran Shammo said he expects the new offering to encourage more customers to connect more devices to its network. As a result, he expects them to sign up for higher-tier data services that come with higher prices. "We're fairly confident we'll start to see people uptick in the tiers, which is where we'll see the revenue accretion." Shammo said in a webcast of an investor conference.
The more people and more devices eating away at your monthly usage allotment, the more quickly users will start to head into overage territory where they'll be forced to pay $10 per gigabyte. Progress? Sort of. Just not for your wallet.
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Dodge
Premium Member
join:2002-11-27

Dodge

Premium Member

Already on LTE

So what if I already have my unlimited on LTE? Next time my contract comes up (1.5 years), no more unlimited? If that's going to be the case, I can say with certainty that it will be no more verizon for me.

IPPlanMan
Holy Cable Modem Batman
join:2000-09-20
Washington, DC

IPPlanMan

Member

Re: Already on LTE

Perhaps you could just buy your device at full unsubsidized price?

That should prevent you from having to mess with or sign a contract.

thegeek
Premium Member
join:2008-02-21
right here

thegeek

Premium Member

Re: Already on LTE

Except that new device, regardless of whether you paid full price or not, will not be compatible with the currently offered data plans. They'll force you into it. Just like years ago when I was forced into a limited text messaging plan from the unlimited plan I had before even though I was only going from one dumb phone to another. If I wanted unlimited texting I had to upgrade to a higher plan. Somehow the new dumb phone wasn't compatible. Basically, they just wanted more money and were making up excuses.
elefante72
join:2010-12-03
East Amherst, NY

elefante72 to Dodge

Member

to Dodge
Simple. At the time they discontinued 4G unlimited they had less than 2 million devices on it. Verizon has a little over 100 million devices so this is about 2%, so their exposure is very low. Of course if you want to sign up any NEW device it will be under the family bucket at then they will make having unlimited untasty by raising rates, services fees, making you go two full years, less of a subsidy, etc... so gone will be the good old days.

For all those iphone lemmings (myself included) they are going to feel the full pain to get to 4G. Of course I had unlimited 4G until my employer made me get an iphone. I will get over it though, because using wifi smartly I have never gotten over 2G and if I am sucking wind I pull out my wifi which has 5G on it and just use that. Apparently my employer got me 5G for the iphone now too, so that is aok.

You see the marginal rate for a family plan is the fact that ancillary devices are already unsubsidized (ipad, etc) so by getting more of them on the network the better for them. The only problem is the family plan with subsidized phones, which say the parent uses 100mb and the kid 5G. So they get them off unlimited, now pool (at a higher BULK rate of course), add some "pooling fee", reduce subsidies on phones (that REALLY is coming), and charge more for more data, not a bulk rate.

The gotcha will be how they monetize texting/mms properly. I would assume that the smart way to do this is FORCE attachment of a text plan (say $10+) to a data plan with pooling, so their texting numbers look good, and that they are guaranteed almost pure profit in that category.

So at the end of the day you will have "pooling" but will be no better off, you will just have more ways to slice your wrist with more devices.

Hall
MVM
join:2000-04-28
Germantown, OH

Hall

MVM

Re: Already on LTE

said by elefante72:

Of course I had unlimited 4G until my employer made me get an iphone.

There are no "4G" data plans or "3G" data plans. You had an "unlimited data plan" on your previous smartphone and whoever ordered your iPhone messed up by allowing it to be dropped.

I (we - wife and I) went from 3G phones, with unlimited data plans, to 4G phones. We made NO change to the data plan. Still unlimited, irregardless of phone type/capability. That said, VZW tricked a lot of people, at least when the phones were ordered online, into "upgrading" their data plan.

aaronwt
Premium Member
join:2004-11-07
Woodbridge, VA
Asus RT-AX89

1 edit

aaronwt

Premium Member

Re: Already on LTE

said by Hall:

said by elefante72:

Of course I had unlimited 4G until my employer made me get an iphone.

There are no "4G" data plans or "3G" data plans. You had an "unlimited data plan" on your previous smartphone and whoever ordered your iPhone messed up by allowing it to be dropped.

I (we - wife and I) went from 3G phones, with unlimited data plans, to 4G phones. We made NO change to the data plan. Still unlimited, irregardless of phone type/capability. That said, VZW tricked a lot of people, at least when the phones were ordered online, into "upgrading" their data plan.

Yes I was one of them. Although I had no issue going to the 4GB plan which was supposed to be the same price. At least two CSRs told me my price would be the same. When I found out it was more expensive they put me back on an unlimited plan and the same costs as I had with my 3G phone.

Although now I'm worried when I upgrade from my Rezound to a newer phone in 2013 that I won't be able to get the 4GB plan for the price of the 2GB plan. Which is what I had originally signed up for with my Rezound. And i would have been perfectly hapy with if the monthly price would have been the same like I was told. instead they tried charging me almost $20 more a month. $98 instead of the $78 it should be.
elefante72
join:2010-12-03
East Amherst, NY

elefante72 to Hall

Member

to Hall
Well on my order sheet it says 4G data plan unlimited, and I upgraded to a new phone with said same plan (thunderbolt -> Droid Charge) without loosing unlimited after the deal expired. I even had the old $5 text deal, which I think they did away w/ too.

I wasn't tricked--I just wasn't happy, my phone # went to a corporate plan with my new employer which doesn't have unlimited so this is one of the ways they did away with say me ever having unlimited again...

But in any case the point is that ALL of the iphone ecosystem will be moved into the new scheme when they upgrade, not to mention the other 90+%. For those few brave who suffered (myself included) through the 4G revolution we should get hazzard pay. Those people are the ones they will have to get creative in coercing off their unlimited plans.

They could always add a $10 fee like Sprint did...There are many ways to monetize this and make it uncomfortable.

And for those who say they will leave, well Verizon will be happy. Unfortunately when you open the phone book, all of the players will be singing the same tune. Even Sprint will have to on their new network.

I do remember paying $70 15 years ago for 300 minutes on CellOne and texting didn't even exist. In today's dollars that would be more expensive than an unlimited plan. So I know we complain but at the end of the day what you get for the money is vastly better.

In any case I am happy with Verizon...The network in the north east is just great. I understand you can't have some guy streaming youtube 3 hrs a day and not impact the cell, and by deprioritizing Verizon made it right versus the AT&T miserable way of handling it.

KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium Member
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK
Netgear WNDR3700v2
Zoom 5341J

KrK to elefante72

Premium Member

to elefante72
said by elefante72:

So at the end of the day you will have "pooling" but will be no better off, you will just have more ways to slice your wrist with more devices.

I don't even have to go out on a limb to say you will definitely be WORSE off. That's the point, to increase profits, not to "make it simple."

They wouldn't be doing it if it wasn't going to cost most people more money, and ergo, generate greater profits. In a market with weak competition, and also weak regulation, this type of activity is par for the course.
88615298 (banned)
join:2004-07-28
West Tenness

88615298 (banned) to Dodge

Member

to Dodge
said by Dodge:

So what if I already have my unlimited on LTE? Next time my contract comes up (1.5 years), no more unlimited? If that's going to be the case, I can say with certainty that it will be no more verizon for me.

And who are you going to go with that will have unlimited LTE?
Dodge
Premium Member
join:2002-11-27

Dodge

Premium Member

Re: Already on LTE

said by 88615298:

said by Dodge:

So what if I already have my unlimited on LTE? Next time my contract comes up (1.5 years), no more unlimited? If that's going to be the case, I can say with certainty that it will be no more verizon for me.

And who are you going to go with that will have unlimited LTE?

Since noone will have unlimited I'll go with something cheaper, maybe even pre-paid. The only reason I'm tolerating $230 cell phone bill (3 lines) is because I have unlimited grandfathered. The funny thing is I only broke 4Gb in a month once, most months I don't get to 2Gb of data usage, but I do like the peace of mind that unlimited provides so when I do need it it's there. If verizon won't be able to do the simple math and leave my account alone, good bye to them

Veloslave
Geek For God
Premium Member
join:2003-07-11
Martinez, CA

Veloslave to Dodge

Premium Member

to Dodge
10 years with them... if is true, then it is buh bye... CAN YOU HEAR ME NOW VERIZON???

IPPlanMan
Holy Cable Modem Batman
join:2000-09-20
Washington, DC

IPPlanMan

Member

Wow...

I'm trying to decide if what Verizon's doing here with its grandfathered unlimited customers is worse than what AT&T did for its "throttling" of unlimited grandfathered customers.

It's a tough call.

There are going to be a heck of a lot of angry iPhone 4/4S customers with Verizon. Sprint could hit it big here if it keeps unlimited going.
25139889 (banned)
join:2011-10-25
Toledo, OH

25139889 (banned)

Member

Re: Wow...

Sprint will change next. They're sitting back watching the others and seeing if it hurts their numbers. If it doesn't, you can bet Spent will be the next. Especially since they were right behind the others to charge and upgrade fee.

Also keep in mind they're network is VERY slow in a majority of their areas. Nobody will put up with that, even if it is unlimited.

pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium Member
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD

pnh102

Premium Member

Re: Wow...

said by 25139889:

Sprint will change next.

I'm not so sure... Being unlimited is the only thing that distinguishes Sprint from everyone else.

thegeek
Premium Member
join:2008-02-21
right here

1 recommendation

thegeek

Premium Member

Re: Wow...

I'd say their severely limited network outside of major cities also distinguishes them. At least from Verizon anyway.
25139889 (banned)
join:2011-10-25
Toledo, OH

25139889 (banned)

Member

Re: Wow...

very true! and even some major areas don't even have 4g service turned on. Toledo has had equipment installed for over 2 years now. and it is still NOT on. Nobody knows anything about it. But it shows up on the Clear.com site but says NO new customers.

Macbiz
@paetec.net

Macbiz to thegeek

Anon

to thegeek
I'd have to agree that Sprint does distinguish itself by having a truly unlimited date plan. However, the fact that they just got rated #1 in customer satisfaction improvement over the last 4 years won't hurt either.
25139889 (banned)
join:2011-10-25
Toledo, OH

25139889 (banned) to pnh102

Member

to pnh102
not when it comes down to 3g being slow as hell in a majority of their service areas. You gotta look at how many MVNOs are giving away unlimited usage on top of Sprint's own direct customers and their prepaid side. unlimited can only last so long.
xenophon
join:2007-09-17

xenophon to 25139889

Member

to 25139889

Also keep in mind they're network is VERY slow in a majority of their areas. Nobody will put up with that, even if it is unlimited.

Sprint 3G is slow but 4G is still good, I'm getting 6-8Mbps and up to 12Mbps - unlimited. Good enough for me and I'm using 6-8GB/month, so VZW/ATT are out. A smartphone really only needs 3-4Mbps if that. Sprint stated they will continue unlimited with LTE. Doesn't look like they'll stop anytime soon as it's the only tool they have left.

If you are in a Sprint 4G area, it is still worth considering, especially since LTE will have better coverage (and building penetration) than their WiMAX.
88615298 (banned)
join:2004-07-28
West Tenness

88615298 (banned)

Member

Re: Wow...

said by xenophon:

Also keep in mind they're network is VERY slow in a majority of their areas. Nobody will put up with that, even if it is unlimited.

Sprint 3G is slow but 4G is still good, I'm getting 6-8Mbps and up to 12Mbps - unlimited. Good enough for me and I'm using 6-8GB/month, so VZW/ATT are out. A smartphone really only needs 3-4Mbps if that. Sprint stated they will continue unlimited with LTE. Doesn't look like they'll stop anytime soon as it's the only tool they have left.

If you are in a Sprint 4G area, it is still worth considering, especially since LTE will have better coverage (and building penetration) than their WiMAX.

Sprint doesn't even offer 2G service in my area. fuck 'em.

SteelerRaw
@timet.com

SteelerRaw

Anon

Re: Wow...

said by 88615298:

Sprint doesn't even offer 2G service in my area.

According to their current coverage map, they now have native 2G and 3G coverage in Camden, Tennessee....
RokHed
join:2000-09-09
Pennsville, NJ

RokHed to 25139889

Member

to 25139889
Wrong. Dan already announced they will retain unlimited after the LTE switch. as far as their network its not the fastest but always 700k or more. I dont tether so even though it not smoking fast its plenty good for me. 3 phones on the everything 1500 plan that includes unlimited data for $196. Pfft Att and the V cant even get close to that even with their caps. Not to mention the gave me a free Airave cause i have aluminum siding and had spotty indoor coverage. Im not much of a Fanboi for much but Sprint rocks for me.
25139889 (banned)
join:2011-10-25
Toledo, OH

25139889 (banned)

Member

Re: Wow...

and you know what will happen when its unlimited and offered to the MVNO's? It will come to a crawl as well. Dan also has his himself in hot water with his BoD and shareholders. If they want it changed to limited, he will indeed make it limited and he knows that. Also they have a LONG way for that LTE network to be built, if they don't run out of cash before. AiRaves meh. They should have been smart and did what Republic Wireless did and make their phones change to wifi calling if available. Would have saved them a TON of money. And be sure to return that box when they change networks otherwise you'll get a nice $300 charge like I did even though they never stated I had to return the POS that never worked.

jgkolt
Premium Member
join:2004-02-21
Avon, OH

jgkolt

Premium Member

4g customer

So the action of going from 3g to 4g customer is what makes you lose the unlimited. what about us with unlimited and already have 4g?

morbo
Complete Your Transaction
join:2002-01-22
00000

morbo

Member

Re: 4g customer

How dare you ask questions that point out the flawed reasoning behind their decision!

Jon Geb
Long time member
join:2001-01-09
Howell, MI

Jon Geb to jgkolt

Member

to jgkolt
You better love that phone, because the day it dies and they don't offer a replacement, its the end of the line.

Hall
MVM
join:2000-04-28
Germantown, OH

Hall to jgkolt

MVM

to jgkolt
said by jgkolt:

So the action of going from 3g to 4g customer is what makes you lose the unlimited. what about us with unlimited and already have 4g?

That is incorrect. Switching phones does NOT require you to switch data plans. See my post above with add'l details.

QuakeFrag
Premium Member
join:2003-06-13
NH

QuakeFrag

Premium Member

Re: 4g customer

said by Hall:

said by jgkolt:

So the action of going from 3g to 4g customer is what makes you lose the unlimited. what about us with unlimited and already have 4g?

That is incorrect. Switching phones does NOT require you to switch data plans. See my post above with add'l details.

From the article:

"Speaking on a recent investor webcast, Verizon Wireless CFO Fran Shammo unsurprisingly stated that as those customers switch to LTE, they're going to be forced to give up their unlimited data plans."

Hall
MVM
join:2000-04-28
Germantown, OH

Hall

MVM

Re: 4g customer

Sorry, I may have misunderstood jgkolt See Profile. If he/she is referring to future plans, go by what the VZW guy said. I was referring to in the past and how people thought upgrading from 3G to 4G forced a change in data plans.

slimmy
@cableone.net

slimmy

Anon

price vs data amount

Guess it all depends on the price and amount of data they offer!

thegeek
Premium Member
join:2008-02-21
right here

thegeek

Premium Member

Re: price vs data amount

If you have even the slightest idea that you will somehow save money with a shared data plan then you are delusional and retarded. They're not about to make less money. If anything they'l make more as there will still be some sort of per-device fee then the actual data plan fee which will be very low cap forcing everyone into high cap plans with high overages.

•••••

morbo
Complete Your Transaction
join:2002-01-22
00000

morbo

Member

What are the plans?

What are the plans and pricing?

•••••

WHT
join:2010-03-26
Rosston, TX

WHT

Member

Beneficial for WHO ???

Shammo said. "When they migrate off 3G they will have to go to data share. That is beneficial to us."
88615298 (banned)
join:2004-07-28
West Tenness

88615298 (banned)

Member

Unlike the rest of the haters

I'll wait until plans and pricing are announced before getting my panties in a wad.

pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium Member
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD

pnh102

Premium Member

Lame

4G is already a useless technology because of these low caps. If it takes just 2 hours to burn through the cap then what's the point?
xenophon
join:2007-09-17

1 recommendation

xenophon

Member

Re: Lame

I'm doing 6-8GB/month on Sprint and getting 6-8Mbps, sometimes up to 12Mbps - more than enough for a smartphone. Enjoying the freedom and no meter watching.
AndyDufresne
Premium Member
join:2010-10-30
Chanhassen, MN

AndyDufresne

Premium Member

waiting to see also

I pay VZ 250$ . That gets me a mifi with 5gb cap, a phone with 4 gb cap and 2 phones on unlimted. I really hope I can save some funds but I'll be surprised if they don't make it so crappy that I'm better off keeping what I have
88615298 (banned)
join:2004-07-28
West Tenness

88615298 (banned)

Member

Re: waiting to see also

I love how everyone assumes Verizon is 100% evil.

Ok Verizon has $20 unlimited texting plans but they also have a $30 unlimited family texting plan. OK if they are greedy and evil why offer something for $30 when you could make a family of four pay $80 a month for the same thing( 4 X $20 ). Isn't Verizon losing money this way? Even their $10 1000 text plan would be $40 a month. So why even bother to offer the $30 family plan? I mean since they are greedy evil fucks and all?

Anonyman
@bah.com

Anonyman

Anon

Re: waiting to see also

Econ 101 fail (and naivety win.)

Do you REALLY think Verizon - a for profit company - didn't run the numbers when they made these changes? It's really simple - they can get more revenue out of the $30 unlimited plan than they can from the $20 ones because of number of customers that buy the $30 plan over multiple $20 plans.

Basically, they were making $30 per family on text plans on average over time and the trend had it staying there or going lower due to mobile IM or something similar. Based on that, they put out an unlimited 'family' plan that gets more people purchasing the plan overall and increasing revenue.

So...in short...100 families getting a $30 plan is more money than 20 families getting 4 unlimited plans (or other such plan combinations).

Add into it the mix that texting is a has a near zero cost to Verizon and the ONLY reason they change pricing is to get more customers and increase/maintain revenue and profit. That's it - no other reason.

timcuth
Braves Fan
Premium Member
join:2000-09-18
Pelham, AL
Technicolor ET2251

timcuth

Premium Member

No thank you

I decline to participate. My oldest son has been after me to switch from AT&T to Verizon. Right now, the only carrier I would consider switching to is Sprint. And, as we all know, there is no guarantee that they won't eliminate unlimited data, either.

Why doesn't some company see what is happening in France and offer competitive rates much lower than the current incumbent pricing models? They wouldn't make as much per customer, but they would get tons of customers.

Tim
RokHed
join:2000-09-09
Pennsville, NJ

RokHed

Member

Re: No thank you

"Why doesn't some company see what is happening in France and offer competitive rates much lower than the current incumbent pricing models? They wouldn't make as much per customer, but they would get tons of customers."

They do and they are called Sprint. They are MUCH cheaper then V or A
25139889 (banned)
join:2011-10-25
Toledo, OH

25139889 (banned)

Member

Re: No thank you

for now.

Mentat
Premium Member
join:2001-02-25
Houston, TX

Mentat

Premium Member

wtffff

I'm confused; will my as-of-now grandfathered account die when I choose (or not) to renew this summer?

••••
majortom1029
join:2006-10-19
Medford, NY

majortom1029

Member

Will this also hurt fios

ON long island if your a cablevision customer (time warner and comcast also) you have access to the optimumwifi hotspots. Could this getting rid of unlimited cause people to leave fios for cablevision in this area?

IowaCowboy
Lost in the Supermarket
Premium Member
join:2010-10-16
Springfield, MA

IowaCowboy

Premium Member

Hopefully

Hopefully with the family data plans I can split my data between my iPhone and MiFi and not have to buy two separate plans.
ke4pym
Premium Member
join:2004-07-24
Charlotte, NC

ke4pym

Premium Member

At first, I was a bit shocked.

But after thinking about it - if VZW decides to end my unlimited 3G data card and 4G unlimited phone data, I will end up saving a TON of money by going back to a basic feature phone.

So, even if that's not their current plan, I say bring it on, so I can commence to saving money and kicking this nasty internet habit I have.

rcdailey
Dragoonfly
Premium Member
join:2005-03-29
Rialto, CA

rcdailey

Premium Member

Re: At first, I was a bit shocked.

I heard a sort of rumor that the next iPhone will have a projector feature that would allow you to watch videos on any blank wall. It would probably be good for presentations, too, in the business world. Other smartphones could have the same technology, I think. Imagine how much money Verizon and even AT&T could make if that takes off.
georgeglass5
join:2010-06-07
New York, NY

georgeglass5

Member

Yeah.... Right..

You can put a tuxedo on a goat, but in the end, its still a goat.

Bill Neilson
Premium Member
join:2009-07-08
Alexandria, VA

Bill Neilson

Premium Member

This is where Verizon and AT&T claim

that congestion is KILLING them and that without getting rid of the unlimited plans, all wireless customers will DESTROY ALL WIRELESS COMMUNICATION!

Evidence of this all? Oh...um.....well, this is all just true. AT&T and Verizon promise us so!

IowaCowboy
Lost in the Supermarket
Premium Member
join:2010-10-16
Springfield, MA

IowaCowboy

Premium Member

Sign of an LTE iPhone

This is a sign that a 4G LTE iPhone is in the cards. When I first signed up for mobile broadband, I had the 3GB/$35 plan but when I went 4G, I had to go to the 5GB/$50 plan.

Maybe if the 4G LTE iPhone ever comes out, i'll pay the ETF on my mobile broadband card and pay for tethering on the LTE iPhone.
decifal7
join:2007-03-10
Bon Aqua, TN

decifal7

Member

blech

Probably will cost $80-$100 for the first awesome 5 gigs and the normal $10 per gig over.. but hey! You can share it!!!

/sigh, sarcasm of course.. Why in the hell do wireless co's in this country insist on sucking the fun outta everything? If they hate their networks being used this badly just burn the damn thing down.. All of it.

••••
tmc8080
join:2004-04-24
Brooklyn, NY

tmc8080

Member

price gouged plans have no value

why people continue to buy blocks of bytes is beyond insane..
you do not have to rely on the duopoly that is Verizon and AT&T in over 75% of the country.. either carrier has alternatives in much of their geographies.

skeechan
Ai Otsukaholic
Premium Member
join:2012-01-26
AA169|170

skeechan

Premium Member

Without unlimited data I don't want a smartphone

The day AT&T kills off my unlimited plan is the day I get an dirt cheap go-phone. I got along just fine all my life without one until my SX66 and Treo700W and I will not die if I ditch it.

•••••
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