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Wow...Gotta love the guy who makes you wait 7 minutes and gets back with a wrong answer. | |
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Re: Wow...the vast majority of agents will probably not know the difference between a bit or a byte | |
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1 recommendation |
Re: Wow...As a CSR for an ISP, they should, and enough to educate the clients that ask the difference between the two. | |
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Re: Wow...from what my experience tells me
the ISP sees it very different....even more so today than in the past....for 8-10 an hour you will not get a ton
and we all need to remember that a huge amount of people on the internet only know if they can get their email jokes, check their "auctions", and go to their news thingy
those that can even find this forum are so far ahead of the masses it is unbelievable.....the ISP knows people like those on this forum exist......and they know theymake way more money off of everyone else....and they know that in the end a user on this forum will weigh the bandwidth/speed/support/cost and make a choice (though sometimes I even wonder about that)....the ISP stands to gain little (in their mind) from offering the users like most on this forum what they really want....when they know you will settle for the best of what the rest get....because you have to
in short in the mind of Verizon.....if you know enough to make the call and quiz the agents then you know enough to find and evaluate the information for yourself (even if it takes 5 calls).....and if you can't find it or you don't know what any of it means.....all the better.....that is the subscriber they prefer.......the "it works or it does not work" guy/gal......you techno geeks make them crazie | |
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| | | | banditws6Shrinking Time and Distance Premium Member join:2001-08-18 Frisco, TX |
banditws6
Premium Member
2007-Nov-14 10:55 am
Re: Wow...Generally I agree that most front-line support reps aren't able to match wits with many of the regulars here, on a technology level. But this is a billing question. It relates to technology, yes, but at the root of it, it is a question of how much the customer is going to owe if they use the service a certain way. A support rep shouldn't have to know how telephony technology works to tell me that long distance calls cost 10 cents a minute... | |
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vzw emp to rodrod5
Anon
2007-Nov-14 11:01 am
to rodrod5
As a former Verizon CSR, I can tell you that the average rep receives brief training on data plans but doesn't utilize it much since this service is not as popular among your average consumer. These questions are better handled by the business reps as they receive a much higher volume of calls related to data plans and are therefore more familiar with that type of plan.
That being said, all of the reps have this info readily available to them, all they have to do is pull it up on their intranet resource and read it. The problem is most reps (and customers) aren't patient enough to take the time to read it. Also, most customers don't trust what they are told by a rep who has to read the info to find the answer, they prefer someone who already knows it. In this situation most reps will simply transfer the call to a business rep. | |
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| | | cdruGo Colts MVM join:2003-05-14 Fort Wayne, IN |
to TigerLord
I would not call Verizon Wireless an ISP. Yes they may fit the technical definition of an ISP, but I would not expect them to give me the same level of technical support for internet related issues as what an ISP does.
But I also agree that they still should know the difference between a kilobit and a kilobyte. Much the same way that I would expect them to know the difference between .002 cents and .002 dollars. | |
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Re: Wow...Internet Service Provider.. do they dot provide internet services? | |
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| | AmeritecTechChange we can believe in, 1922 Premium Member join:2002-09-06 Houston, TX |
to rodrod5
said by rodrod5:the vast majority of agents will probably not know the difference between a bit or a byte Bit and byte wasn't the error most were making. Most did not understand the difference between .002 dollars and .002 cents. | |
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| | | Jodokast96Stupid people piss me off. Premium Member join:2005-11-23 NJ |
Re: Wow...said by AmeritecTech:said by rodrod5:the vast majority of agents will probably not know the difference between a bit or a byte Bit and byte wasn't the error most were making. Most did not understand the difference between .002 dollars and .002 cents. Not to mention, isn't that the exact same amount from last year? | |
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| | | snipper_cr Premium Member join:2002-01-22 Wheaton, IL |
to AmeritecTech
I agree. The difference between a byte and a bit to even a moderately computer savy person is obvious but Kb and kb tend to be more confusing.
I am, however, worried about the people would cannot differentiate between .002 dollars and .002 cents. .002 cents would allow a heck of a lot more data!
Indeed, my sides are a little sore from watching that video. | |
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| | | | SLD Premium Member join:2002-04-17 San Francisco, CA
1 recommendation |
SLD
Premium Member
2007-Nov-14 7:15 pm
Re: Wow...said by snipper_cr:I agree. The difference between a byte and a bit to even a moderately computer savy person is obvious but Kb and kb tend to be more confusing. Seems you got confused yourself. Kb and kb are the same thing. KB and Kb would be different. | |
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| | | | | snipper_cr Premium Member join:2002-01-22 Wheaton, IL |
Re: Wow...Yes, sorry thats what I ment. K and k would imply that there are two units of kilo :-P But yeah that is what I meant | |
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| | | Matt3All noise, no signal. Premium Member join:2003-07-20 Jamestown, NC |
to AmeritecTech
said by AmeritecTech:said by rodrod5:the vast majority of agents will probably not know the difference between a bit or a byte Bit and byte wasn't the error most were making. Most did not understand the difference between .002 dollars and .002 cents. I'm betting they went through training that told them .002 dollars, but that just doesn't make as much sense to say as .002 cents, so if as the poster above says, they don't quote data rates often, they probably remember .002 and think cents. Personally I think Verizon Wireless needs to fire their training staff and probably change the metrics in use, as well as adding in a few "secret shopper" calls. | |
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| | Synbios join:2002-05-18 Arlington, VA |
to rodrod5
The major problem is (especially for the second question), they have a hard time distinguishing between cents and dollars.
0.002 dollars is stupid anyway, their readout on their computer should simply say .2 cents.
Yeah the other problem is bit vs. byte.
They need to learn the difference between dollar and cent, and bit and byte. | |
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| | | Matt3All noise, no signal. Premium Member join:2003-07-20 Jamestown, NC |
Matt3
Premium Member
2007-Nov-14 1:08 pm
Re: Wow...said by Synbios:The major problem is (especially for the second question), they have a hard time distinguishing between cents and dollars. 0.002 dollars is stupid anyway, their readout on their computer should simply say .2 cents. Yeah the other problem is bit vs. byte. They need to learn the difference between dollar and cent, and bit and byte. Yeah, but to the average end user, .002 dollars sounds like a LOT less than .2 cents. I even had to pause and think about it for a second to figure out what exactly it was. | |
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| | | HangmnDon't Fight It...It's Inevitable Premium Member join:2000-04-08 Philadelphia, PA |
to Synbios
said by Synbios:The major problem is (especially for the second question), they have a hard time distinguishing between cents and dollars. 0.002 dollars is stupid anyway, their readout on their computer should simply say .2 cents. Yeah the other problem is bit vs. byte. They need to learn the difference between dollar and cent, and bit and byte. In other words most get it COMPLETELY WRONG.... | |
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to TigerLord
Would like to see this with more basic cellphone service questions. Probably won't have as high of an error rate but still probably too high. | |
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uneducatedThis is great.. Great idea.
They sure need some qc. | |
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88615298 (banned) join:2004-07-28 West Tenness
1 recommendation |
88615298 (banned)
Member
2007-Nov-14 9:43 am
Not shockingConsidering the crappiness of our educational system in the US I'm not shocked that people don't the difference between .002 dollars and .002 cents. | |
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Too funny but too true!I'd like to do this for my friend that is mired in the DSL nightmare called Verizon DSL support in Hazleton, PA!! They shut off her DSL. They said it was problem with her phone line. They said it was her modem. They said she never paid. They said she requested termination. They said its at their end. They said billing will resolve but closed now. They said but didn't fix it and its now going on two weeks. Do you complain to PUC? FTC? FCC? What is one to do. She has no email. Her billing is debit from her account so that wasn't the issue. She never terminated her service (she's a freelancer!). (I had to intervene as a relative works in another state for DSL support...but still...she is getting short end...) | |
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BabyBearKeep wise ...with Nite-Owl join:2007-01-11 |
The big question!?!So the big question of the day is who was that employee who got both questions RIGHT and when did they get fired!?!? | |
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rodrod5
Member
2007-Nov-14 10:03 am
Re: The big question!?!well you see their call coaching scores came back and they failed to offer the subscriber the chance to purchase an upgrade in their services.....and they also were a bit soft spoken with their Verizon greeting....and they forgot to ask you to please hang on the phone and take a brief survey to let Verizon know how well you were able to improve their Verizon experience
and one of these 3 is a fireable offense....all 3 togather is insubordination | |
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| | darbeafrom the Dark Side Premium Member join:2007-07-15 Coatesville, PA |
darbea
Premium Member
2007-Nov-15 6:29 am
Re: The big question!?!said by rodrod5:well you see their call coaching scores came back and they failed to offer the subscriber the chance to purchase an upgrade in their services.....and they also were a bit soft spoken with their Verizon greeting....and they forgot to ask you to please hang on the phone and take a brief survey to let Verizon know how well you were able to improve their Verizon experience and one of these 3 is a fireable offense....all 3 togather is insubordination Thank-you!!! Not only are you completely correct, but you hit the nail on the head. The ludicrous measuring systems in place are beyond comprehension to anyone who doesn't work for VZ. The stress levels, absence rates, employee rollovers (thru promotion or retreat to former title, if allowed), are much higher than any other department. For service reps hired "off the street", their chance of making it thru the first 6 months is much slimmer than an existing employee who upgraded to the title. Funny thing is, it redefines the word, 'upgrade'. | |
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Lumberjack Premium Member join:2003-01-18 Newport News, VA |
Telepromt?Apparently they need a better faq sytem for their agents.
"What is the data rate for overages?".
Right now it must come back with something the agents have to interpret. It should instead come back with an easy to read statement that requires no math or other computational skills. Like icons vs. numbers at McDonald's. | |
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| pnh102Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty Premium Member join:2002-05-02 Mount Airy, MD |
pnh102
Premium Member
2007-Nov-14 10:16 am
Re: Telepromt?said by Lumberjack:Apparently they need a better faq sytem for their agents. You'd think in the days when most CSRs simply read from scripts this would not be an issue. | |
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shadow3432
Anon
2007-Nov-14 11:01 am
Re: Telepromt?I'm guessing that the problem is that the operator doesn't know how to read "$.02/kb" in the script.
The script should be changed to "point zero two dollars per kilobyte" or "two cents per kilobyte". | |
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| | | Lumberjack Premium Member join:2003-01-18 Newport News, VA |
Re: Telepromt?said by shadow3432 :
I'm guessing that the problem is that the operator doesn't know how to read "$.02/kb" in the script.
The script should be changed to "point zero two dollars per kilobyte" or "two cents per kilobyte". It should say every possible valid statement. | |
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moonpuppy (banned) join:2000-08-21 Glen Burnie, MD |
moonpuppy (banned)
Member
2007-Nov-14 10:18 am
Got to love it....More and more these days, training is cut in the pursuit of profits. Unfortunately, training pays for itself in the long run.
Wrong answers make no one happy and breads distrust between a company and its customers. | |
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Packeteers Premium Member join:2005-06-18 Forest Hills, NY Asus RT-AC3100 (Software) Asuswrt-Merlin
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took 3 calls to get the right answerI recently had an incident with a 3 cell phone family plan between me and my folks. they were going to Europe for 3 Months while I still needed my phone on the same plan with them. So I inquired what would be the suspended service cost savings on 2 out of 3 phones on the same family plan. my first call got a very generous answer, my second call a very niggardly answer, and finally on the third try I got the correct answer. Had I called only once, I would have suspended those phones only to find them cancelled 3 Months later because of the Hundreds of dollars I would not know I still had to pay. So based on my experience and the YouTube video, it appears that Verizon customer service people generally make up stuff to sound accommodating on the phone, only to find Months later you take it in the rear for charges you would not prepared to pay. | |
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On The Down Low
Anon
2007-Nov-14 11:01 am
Re: took 3 calls to get the right answerPart of the confusion is there are multiple data overage/roaming rates
.2 cents, or .002 dollars for data roaming in canada
the overage rate on the 10MB (now) $24.99 is one .5 cents
the pay as you go KB rate in the US is 1.5 cents/kb, or .015 dollars
then there's the new MB charges for the nationwide plans for regular handsets, $1.99/MB
what really needs to happen is for all data to standardize on one price. still no excuse for the wrong answers | |
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koitsu MVM join:2002-07-16 Mountain View, CA Humax BGW320-500
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koitsu
MVM
2007-Nov-14 10:32 am
The odd part...Logically, one would expect Verizon to put in a serious effort with regards to addressing this kind of misunderstanding, solely based on what happened last year. "Serious effort" in my book is defined as: at a bare minimum, re-training existing CSRs to understand the difference between X cents/unit, and X dollars/unit -- and to ensure that new CSRs comprehend the same detail.
This experiment proves to me that Verizon did jack shit to ensure quality service after last year's incident.
I hope next year, someone performs the same experiment again, just to see if the 93% inaccuracy rate drops, remains the same, or increases.
Amusingly enough, at my workplace, we hired someone a few months ago that continually operates under the mentality that 50% * 3 == 100%. This guy has actual certifications for what he does... yet simple math skills seem to be outside of his mental capacity.
Doesn't anyone go to school any more? (And yes, that's a serious question.) | |
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GlobalMindDomino Dude, POWER Systems Guy Premium Member join:2001-10-29 Indianapolis, IN |
Taking the first answer...I remember when I called to make changes on a plan I have with Sprint (who also has less than adequate service agents), and immediately the answer was that I would have a ETF on that if I made a change.
Do huh? I raised hell and the guy went back and got the right answer, which was umm, NO. I could see perhaps a contract extension (was only a month after I first started the contract so really no big deal) but an ETF on that? LOL Yea right.
If you accept the first thing they say, you're likely to get screwed. | |
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Re: Taking the first answer...Exactly! Especially with Sprint!!! I call twice and ask them to note everything- AND THEY STILL MESS UP!
I purchased two phones last year at $250 each. Before I received them, I found out my cousin had paid $150 for the same phone. So I called support and was transferred to a "special department" who matched the price on the two phones. I asked them to note this in my account.
When I got my bill, only one of the phones was adjusted. So I called and asked them to read me the note which said something like "Customer called for price adjustment. Customer paid $150 per phone."
EVEN WITH THIS NOTE these people treated me like a criminal, telling me how they had gone above and beyond by matching the price on the first phone and that they couldn't do it on the second. I have a bunch of horror stories with Sprint, and so does every sprint customer I know! | |
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Lies,Lies.Lies!! This is a complete falsehood.There is no way Verizon has one customer service employee who can answer 2 questions about anything,including their own name and day of the week. | |
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mikenolan7 Premium Member join:2005-06-07 Torrance, CA |
Dubious Math SkillsSo the next question is: Why do they "record this conversation for quality control"? | |
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Shamayim
Premium Member
2007-Nov-14 12:00 pm
There oughta be a lawIs there?
If you record (for proof) their rep quoting you a lowball price, can you hold Vz to it if they charge you a higher rate? After all, the salesman is officially representing Verizon. Sort of an oral contract if you sign up with him/her. Why shouldn't the lower price stick? | |
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Re: There oughta be a lawUnfortunately, it's probably all spelled out somewhere in the contract that you eventually have to sign (of course, I naturally assume this, when I probably shouldn't). I'm sure corporate lawyers would bog any of us down until the end of days with such things. | |
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SKYWARP
Member
2007-Nov-14 12:16 pm
LOLDamn, that shat was funny as hell. I passed this link around the office this morning, it was a hit. | |
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KrKHeavy Artillery For The Little Guy Premium Member join:2000-01-17 Tulsa, OK Netgear WNDR3700v2 Zoom 5341J
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KrK
Premium Member
2007-Nov-14 12:53 pm
So... what if YOU record the conversation?So you call up, ask ask specific questions about the data rate.
You record the call.
Based on what the rep tells you, you agree to sign up.
You get hit with a massive bill because the rep screwed up/lied.
Ignore the bill, dispute it. After a few months there's a huge disparity between what Verizon says you owe and what you signed up for.
So, take 'em to court. Play the recording. Win! Verizon gets slapped, you don't pay bill, they pay you your court costs...
Maybe even some nice punitive damages as well. Sounds like they need 'em. | |
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hi.I think more people than would seem at the surface know the difference between .002 cents and .002 dollars.
They just don't know what actual word to use when they see "$0.002 / KB" on a piece of paper. Most evidently say, "point zero zero two cents per kilobyte". We'll never really know what percentage of those who say it in that manner, however incorrect it is, know the difference between the 2 amounts that differ by a 100-fold. | |
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ddwibb join:2004-09-02 Holyoke, MA |
ddwibb
Member
2007-Nov-14 6:11 pm
Vindicated!Recently I tried to contact VZW through their on line "contact us" page. For a week and a half they gave me 101 reasons why I needed to call them to get answers. I got much criticism by family and friends for not simply calling VZW. They didn't believe my fanciful tales of false information coming from VZW's highly trained CSRs. Never did get the answers | |
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JEJE 's BACK BABY Premium Member join:2000-12-15 Charlotte, NC |
JE
Premium Member
2007-Nov-14 9:35 pm
LoL...Eat That verizon!This is great research!!!! I love this! Makes Verizon look very unprofessional that most of the CSR's get the answers wrong. So this means that when you call in and ask a question about something mathematical on your bill, 50% of the time, it will be wrong! Hmmmmmmmmm! This definitely is not the company I want giving me service, and I work in CS and know the difference and didn't even graduate College!
I think the Cable companies outght to take this video and make a commercial out of it.
JE | |
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Ben Premium Member join:2007-06-17 Fort Worth, TX |
Ben
Premium Member
2007-Nov-15 9:50 am
I Guess It's Not a Common Question for "Regular Joes" To AskIf you don't use a certain bit of knowledge often enough, you're likely to forget it. I took Calculus III once, even earning a decent grade, but I probably forgot at least half of what I learned.
I'm guessing that anyone who uses mobile data either gets the "Unlimited" option (VZW really has a 5GB cap), or doesn't bother.
I'm also guessing that most people realize that Pay-as-you-go data is generally a rip-off. Me, I don't bother with Internet access that isn't "unlimited*," or has caps and overage fees. Since I honestly have no idea how many KB or MB many websites are, nor can I be bothered to count the number of pages I visit even if I did know.
*-Every connection has a technical limit, even without artificial limitations. Even if you saturate a T1 24/7, you can only move a certain amount of data in a single month. I can accept this. I can't accept artificial limits or paying overage fees since it's hard to quantify usage. Plus consider the fact that data is often transferred even if you do nothing at all (e.g. automatic virus signature updates). Plus, don't get me started on bots and hacking, which uses bandwidth even if your firewall blocks the connection. It must first receive the connection (and thus use bandwidth) before it can be blocked. It's similar to a door-to-door salesman causing wear and tear on your porch before you turn him away. | |
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Verizon Phone NumbersYou realize that when you call the toll-free number that you see on a TV ad that chances are good that you're NOT talking to Verizon. I worked in a call center where we took calls, and the CSRs did not have most of the information needed to answer questions correctly. Not to mention the call monitoring requirements; must attempt to sell every available service to every caller. Failure to do so will result in a zero score if monitored and 4 zeros and you're out. You should hear customers whose existing services aren't working when you try to sell them something new!
I've abandoned that job and now am a CSR for a small (#15?) cable company, and I'm happier now. No more required lies to callers, and when I transfer you to tech support, it's just across the hall, not in India! | |
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