 
ninjatutle
Premium
join:2006-01-02
San Ramon, CA | Show some love... They bring give us Fios so their EVDO service should be good right?
They are BBR's darling child  | |
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kamm
join:2001-02-14
Brooklyn, NY
 ·T-Mobile US
| Re: Show some love... said by ninjatutle  :They bring give us Fios so their EVDO service should be good right? They are BBR's darling child Cingular's HSDPA is faster. | |
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| | pabster
join:2001-12-09
Waterloo, IA | Re: Show some love... I'm hoping that is extreme sarcasm. | |
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ninjatutle
Premium
join:2006-01-02
San Ramon, CA | Re: Show some love... Who? Me, him or both?  | |
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kamm
join:2001-02-14
Brooklyn, NY
·T-Mobile US
| said by pabster :I'm hoping that is extreme sarcasm. Ehh? In my world an average 1-1.2Mbit is faster than 700kb... | |
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| | DarnellP
join:2004-10-12
Las Vegas, NV
1 edit | said by kamm :said by ninjatutle :They bring give us Fios so their EVDO service should be good right? They are BBR's darling child Cingular's HSDPA is faster. So we read every time an EVDO deployment is mentioned though I don't really see the relevance. In any event, CIngular's HSDPA and Sprint & Verizon's EVDO average real world speeds are comparable and EVDO coverage is more widespread, so IMO advantage: EVDO...at least at this point. | |
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kamm
join:2001-02-14
Brooklyn, NY
·T-Mobile US
1 edit | Re: Show some love... said by DarnellP :said by kamm :said by ninjatutle :They bring give us Fios so their EVDO service should be good right? They are BBR's darling child Cingular's HSDPA is faster. So we read every time an EVDO deployment is mentioned though I don't really see the relevance. Umm feel free to complain at the owner of the OP I've replied to...  He stated his opinion which I replied to with mine, that's all.
In any event, CIngular's HSDPA and Sprint & Verizon's EVDO average real world speeds are comparable and EVDO coverage is more widespread, so IMO advantage: EVDO...at least at this point.
Errr not exactly - I can take my HSDPA phone to Europe, Asia etc and use it not only as a phone but also as an HSDPA device. So until Cingular reaches VZ's coverage you have the home coverage better - but your phone/card is useless abroad and you have to put up the very abusive VZ contract terms. | |
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Michieru2
zzz zzz zzz
Premium
join:2005-01-28
Miami, FL
| faster = more cost
Also I never seen any real world speeds as of yet, if you can give us a couple of links I would gladly compare.
The fact that Sprint has tested HSDPA, Flash-ODFM and other services to operate on the 2.5ghz spectrum, and chose WiMax really makes me wonder if HSDPA can prove itself in real world tests. | |
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kamm
join:2001-02-14
Brooklyn, NY
·T-Mobile US
| Re: Show some love... said by Michieru2 :faster = more cost ? At $20/month unlimited HSDPA/EDGE/etc data Cingular is vastly cheaper than VZ, no matter how you look at it, I believe.
Also I never seen any real world speeds as of yet, if you can give us a couple of links I would gladly compare.
There are plenty of forums out there - here's one I recently found for another poster like you: »www.howardforums.com/showthread.···3&page=1
The fact that Sprint has tested HSDPA, Flash-ODFM and other services to operate on the 2.5ghz spectrum, and chose WiMax really makes me wonder if HSDPA can prove itself in real world tests.
?
I am wondering what are you talking about...  HSDPA is in service in 40+ countries already, most of them already in the process of cranking up to 3.6Mb downlink or already did it. Cingular's equipment scales up to 14Mb as it is, without any additional invesment.
I thought it's fairly common knowledge that HSDPA is vastly superior to EV-DO - see Wiki for further details: »en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HSDPA | |
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Michieru2
zzz zzz zzz
Premium
join:2005-01-28
Miami, FL
1 edit | Re: Show some love... Kamm,
»www.howardforums.com/showthread.···3&page=1
That link you just gave me and a browsed every single page of that thread. Those speeds are comparable to that of EV-DO and to be more precise head to head.
Here are the speed results that those guys given with some being 3G tests, I also added Sprint for you can compare.
»/archive?zip=&···t=Search
»/archive/spcsdns.net
This could be two or more things, either the technology does not reach the speed it advertises, or the pipe's to the tower are much congested that nobody is able to benefit of those speed increases because there isn't enough capacity to do so.
As of right now I call it 50/50 but to be realistic here, that's what most of us will ever get unless we pay more. Paying 20 a month hardly will cover for such speeds. I pay 39.99 for my EV-DO Rev 0 and I do reach advertise speeds. But my upload is almost as fast as my download, unlike Cingular's.
I am not saying your wrong or anything in regards to HSDPA, but if the company does not let you reach those speeds or surpass what EV-DO is even capable of doing, I don't see much benefit in HSDPA itself.
Also these people are reporting ping times of 200+ unlike in EV-DO Rev A we are talking around 60+.
It also seems ninjaturtle can speak for himself in regards to speeds as he his speed test results are 1147/773.
But hey if Cingular plans to provide a faster backbone to the towers you will see faster speeds compared to that of EV-DO Rev A. But I seriously doubt Cingular will give you a 14.4Mbps pipe for a mere 20 dollars.
EDIT: By the way kamm where did you even get it's 20 dollars for HSDPA/EDGE?
»www.cingular.com/cell-phone-serv···lans.jsp
»www.cingular.com/cell-phone-serv···lans.jsp | |
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| | | | | kamikazi_Ace
join:2006-12-12
Miami, FL
|  Re: Show some love...
I'm confused! Are you talking about Evdo wireless rev.0 service or DSL landline service? I pay 59.99! How come you are paying 39.99? And by the way I didn't know people are paying 20 bucks for a wireless service. I feel cheated! | |
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Michieru2
zzz zzz zzz
Premium
join:2005-01-28
Miami, FL
| Re: Show some love... Prices change from time to time, I use the PAM (Phone as modem) plan through bluetooth to my Macbook.
By the way yes I am talking about wireless EVDO rev.0.
The only differences between Rev.0 and Rev.A are that Rev.A has lower latency that you can practically game off the connection according to some, while VOIP as well.
Rev.0 is the older version which has higher latency.
The other difference is that Rev.A reaches transmission speeds of 3.1Mbps while Rev.0 at 2.5Mbps
If you are using a data connection card your price will increase. But be aware that the unlimited PAM is 49.99 without a voice line.
Sprint has said it shall be releasing Rev.A EV-DO phones by Q1 2007. I have no need for Rev.A at this point nor does it justify the cost to switch my phone to a newer one.
I get speeds of around 600-800kbps in good conditions with my Rev.0 connection and it does not fluctuate like you would expect from a start up service. If there is no EV-DO you will back on the 1xRTT network which be compared to EDGE.
I don't know where kamm got the 20 bucks, but I am sure it's not for HSDPA but EDGE. This will make sense since it's a much slower service. UMTS and HSDPA is where Cingular and T-Mobile plan to go, while Verizon and Sprint are with EV-DO and Sprint announcing plans for WiMax which has a transmission rate of 70Mbps.
Real world tests have various factors though and one of the biggest and hardest things to estimate is capacity because you are not on a connection that is only owned by you. Meaning you are sharing a couple of bonded T1's or T3's amongst other users. HSDPA as kamm says is superior and actually a long term investment unlike EV-DO. But it all depends on Cingular to add capacity, but with more capacity, prices will increase across the board. With that said, if you are looking for a technology that will give you results now and are fine with speeds that could reach at 3.1mbps with 1/4 of that being for upload EV-DO is for you.
If you want higher speeds that could reach up to 14.4Mbps with higher than normal latency but as a replacement for your landline connection and less than 1/4 of the upload speed, HSDPA from Cingular is the way to go for you.
I might consider HSDPA in the future once I see the big advantages, but by then WiMax would be here and the first 10 most populated markets are targeted and I am in one of them. So when WiMax does come out we would see how can it compare to HSDPA in real world tests, and as I said before it all depends on capacity to the tower. | |
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kamm
join:2001-02-14
Brooklyn, NY
·T-Mobile US
| said by kamikazi_Ace :"I pay 39.99 for my EV-DO Rev 0 and I do reach advertise speeds." I'm confused! Are you talking about Evdo wireless rev.0 service or DSL landline service? I pay 59.99! How come you are paying 39.99? And by the way I didn't know people are paying 20 bucks for a wireless service. I feel cheated! That's a lot of money. You need to buy a PPC-6700 and use it as a modem instead of paying that much. | |
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Michieru2
zzz zzz zzz
Premium
join:2005-01-28
Miami, FL | Re: Show some love... It sounds like he is a Sprint customer and bought a connection card. Just call them and tell them to lower your rate to the new one. Just remember Sprint is being a bitch now with there account changes, so ask for any details and contract info. | |
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tc1uscg
join:2005-03-09
Saint Clair Shores, MI
| said by kamm :said by kamikazi_Ace :"I pay 39.99 for my EV-DO Rev 0 and I do reach advertise speeds." I'm confused! Are you talking about Evdo wireless rev.0 service or DSL landline service? I pay 59.99! How come you are paying 39.99? And by the way I didn't know people are paying 20 bucks for a wireless service. I feel cheated! That's a lot of money. You need to buy a PPC-6700 and use it as a modem instead of paying that much. If it's used as a modem, add 40 bucks.. | |
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kamm
join:2001-02-14
Brooklyn, NY
·T-Mobile US
| Re: Show some love... said by tc1uscg :said by kamm :said by kamikazi_Ace :"I pay 39.99 for my EV-DO Rev 0 and I do reach advertise speeds." I'm confused! Are you talking about Evdo wireless rev.0 service or DSL landline service? I pay 59.99! How come you are paying 39.99? And by the way I didn't know people are paying 20 bucks for a wireless service. I feel cheated! That's a lot of money. You need to buy a PPC-6700 and use it as a modem instead of paying that much. If it's used as a modem, add 40 bucks.. How so? When I was about to activate my PPC-6700 with Sprint they told me $15 unlimited flat fee, nothing else. | |
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tc1uscg
join:2005-03-09
Saint Clair Shores, MI | Unless your an employee and pay 15.00 for all you can eat EVDO aircard usage.. | |
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inteller
Sociopaths always win.
join:2003-12-08
Tulsa, OK | how to get HSDPA for $20? simple, take your existing sim card out of your $20 a mo MediaNet enabled phone and place it into new 3G capable phone. | |
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Michieru2
zzz zzz zzz
Premium
join:2005-01-28
Miami, FL
| Re: Show some love... I assume that's basically a bypass and not supported am I right? If Cingular is selling data for that cost, and you are getting it for 20 something is obviously wrong here.
Just like Sprint users use old phones with the PCS vision package and do teathering to get free web access for 15 dollars per month. | |
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kamm
join:2001-02-14
Brooklyn, NY
·T-Mobile US
1 edit | Re: Show some love... said by Michieru2 :I assume that's basically a bypass and not supported am I right? If Cingular is selling data for that cost, and you are getting it for 20 something is obviously wrong here. Nothing is wrong. It's perfectly legal and supported.
In fact when I switched to Cingular I bought and activated it right in a Cingular Retail Store.
Just like Sprint users use old phones with the PCS vision package and do teathering to get free web access for 15 dollars per month.
I don't know what are you talking about - Sprint offered me unlimited web for $15 with a PPC-6700... | |
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tc1uscg
join:2005-03-09
Saint Clair Shores, MI
| Re: Show some love... said by kamm :said by Michieru2 :I assume that's basically a bypass and not supported am I right? If Cingular is selling data for that cost, and you are getting it for 20 something is obviously wrong here. Nothing is wrong. It's perfectly legal and supported. In fact when I switched to Cingular I bought and activated it right in a Cingular Retail Store. Just like Sprint users use old phones with the PCS vision package and do teathering to get free web access for 15 dollars per month.
I don't know what are you talking about - Sprint offered me unlimited web for $15 with a PPC-6700... Remember.. unlimited web access is not the same as unlimited data (phone as modem). It's 2 different things. EVDO accounts are flaged so if you could use your 3g phone as modem in the past at 230kbps, your evdo phone won't make it past the gate way unless someone keyed your account wrong. I went through this going form a RL7300 to a MM7500. | |
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kamm
join:2001-02-14
Brooklyn, NY
·T-Mobile US
| Re: Show some love... said by tc1uscg :said by kamm :said by Michieru2 :I assume that's basically a bypass and not supported am I right? If Cingular is selling data for that cost, and you are getting it for 20 something is obviously wrong here. Nothing is wrong. It's perfectly legal and supported. In fact when I switched to Cingular I bought and activated it right in a Cingular Retail Store. Just like Sprint users use old phones with the PCS vision package and do teathering to get free web access for 15 dollars per month.
I don't know what are you talking about - Sprint offered me unlimited web for $15 with a PPC-6700... Remember.. unlimited web access is not the same as unlimited data (phone as modem). It's 2 different things. EVDO accounts are flaged so if you could use your 3g phone as modem in the past at 230kbps, your evdo phone won't make it past the gate way unless someone keyed your account wrong. I went through this going form a RL7300 to a MM7500. Why would be a 3G phone slower than a modem? It doesn't make any sense... if it's true then Ev-DO is even more sux than I thought. I have nothing like this with Cingular - my TyTn works fine @1Mbit average. | |
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tc1uscg
join:2005-03-09
Saint Clair Shores, MI
| Re: Show some love... 3G/Vision phones default to 144kbps. That's more then 2x the 56k modem speed but without the limitations. I changed my phone to hit the 230k speed. I've never seen a modem that showed up over 56k. 230 is 4x as fast and again without limitation. Sorry if I didn't make it clear. My evdo phone has exceeded the 1mbps. Even when I was using my 3g phone @ 230k, it seemed really fast. My EVDO phone is even faster (of course). You will not, no matter what network your one, have the same speeds all the time. There is so much that comes into play as you know. But, I've used cell phones when they would connect at 14.4..  | |
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kamm
join:2001-02-14
Brooklyn, NY
·T-Mobile US
2 edits | said by Michieru2 :Kamm, » www.howardforums.com/showthread.···3&page=1That link you just gave me and a browsed every single page of that thread. Those speeds are comparable to that of EV-DO and to be more precise head to head. I have yet to see constant 1+ mbit results from VZ, especially when their RevA upgrade news said it went from 700 to 800 kbps...
Here are the speed results that those guys given with some being 3G tests, I also added Sprint for you can compare. » /archive?zip=&···t=Search» /archive/spcsdns.netThis could be two or more things, either the technology does not reach the speed it advertises, or the pipe's to the tower are much congested that nobody is able to benefit of those speed increases because there isn't enough capacity to do so.
INteresting, huh? 
I don't see this with Cingular... also note that most of Cingular's test results are phones, not cards which are tend to be faster and have lower latencies.
As of right now I call it 50/50 but to be realistic here, that's what most of us will ever get unless we pay more. Paying 20 a month hardly will cover for such speeds.
Easily. National providers in countries with 8-10M subscribers and 3 competing providers in Europe charge the same or a little bit more but people there don't pay for incoming minutes (that's just another US-only ripoff scheme) etc ... for example a MidEU (former Commie) country with some ~9M folks have (literally) 100+ percentage cell phone market saturation and more than 20 cities with 3+ Mb/s HSDPA covered, rest is upgrading from half that speed...
Contrary what all these digusting monopoly-based parasites would like you to believe bandwidth IS cheap.
I pay 39.99 for my EV-DO Rev 0 and I do reach advertise speeds. But my upload is almost as fast as my download, unlike Cingular's.
Umm not to burst your bubble but Rev A just raised VZ's upload speed get close to Cigular's:;)
»www.engadget.com/2006/12/12/veri···-friday/
Sprint has better speeds than VZ, that's for sure. When I measured here it was pretty much on-pair with Cingular and has better US broadband coverage but I wouldn't put up with their awfully craptastic indoor signal levels - I tested it for days before I left TMO for Cingular - and I want international roaming as I travel abroad.
I am not saying your wrong or anything in regards to HSDPA, but if the company does not let you reach those speeds or surpass what EV-DO is even capable of doing, I don't see much benefit in HSDPA itself.
It's quite obvious I think that Cingular is building out the coverage first and will raise the bandwidth afterwards.
I'm not saying I'm in love with this approach - should I say fuck it? - but that's what they do.
But technologically speaking HSDPA clearly seems to be a generation ahead of EV-DO so it give me the piece of mind - hey my phone is capable for 3.6Mb already.
Also these people are reporting ping times of 200+ unlike in EV-DO Rev A we are talking around 60+.
More like ~100+ IIRC from those VZ news...
It also seems ninjaturtle can speak for himself in regards to speeds as he his speed test results are 1147/773.
I'm not saying there are no good results. I'm just saying the most likely reason VZ and Sprint did not go with HSDPA is probably the upgrade cost - if you notice every GSM provider went with UMTS/HSDPA. VZ and Sprint is pretty much a dying breed worldwide as even some of the originally CDMA providers are switching to HSDPA (in Asia).
But hey if Cingular plans to provide a faster backbone to the towers you will see faster speeds compared to that of EV-DO Rev A.
It is faster than VZ and on pair with Sprint, I believe. I get 1Mb/s or above almost every time of the day in Downtown Manhattan. Of course, it's empirical, could be due to some lucky office location etc but friends with VZ usually don't measure 1 Mbit here.
It's called Unlimited for Smartphone w/ Xpress Mail or whatever and it's $19.99. Trust me, I know, I use it on my HTC TyTn. | |
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Michieru2
zzz zzz zzz
Premium
join:2005-01-28
Miami, FL
| Re: Show some love... "I have yet to see 1+ mbit results from VZ, especially when their RevA upgrade news said it went from 700 to 800 kbps... "
VZ is not even on the boat as of yet, and frankly I would not compare to them at all, you and I both know of there ridiculous TOS, so it's not even worth discussing.
"Besides the fact that it's Sprint, not Verizon, did you notice that the fast results are almost exclusively from the same area in California?
INteresting, huh?
I don't see this with Cingular... also note that most of Cingular's test results are phones, not cards which are tend to be faster and have lower latencies."
Agreed, I think it would be better to compared once the Rev.A phones comes out in Q1 2007 to do a better comparison, but so far if I am getting those speeds with Rev.0 here in Miami, FL it should be a major improvement, considering that I am in one of the top major markets this is no surprise.
"Easily. National providers in countries with 8-10M subscribers and 3 competing providers in Europe charge the same or a little bit more but people there don't pay for incoming minutes (that's just another US-only ripoff scheme) etc ... for example a MidEU (former Commie) country with some ~9M folks have (literally) 100+ percentage cell phone market saturation and more than 20 cities with 3+ Mb/s HSDPA covered, rest is upgrading from half that speed...
Contrary what all these digusting monopoly-based parasites would like you to believe bandwidth IS cheap. "
You can still get a phone and use it as data, it simply costs you 10 bucks extra. But let's not forget that they charge in euros not dollars to my understand. So in reality it will be a bit more.
"Umm not to burst your bubble but Rev A just raised VZ's upload speed get close to Cigular's:;)
»www.engadget.com/2006/12/12/veri···-friday/
Sprint has better speeds than VZ, that's for sure. When I measured here it was pretty much on-pair with Cingular and has better US broadband coverage but I wouldn't put up with their awfully craptastic indoor signal levels - I tested it for days before I left TMO for Cingular - and I want international roaming as I travel abroad."
Again comparing to VZ is really no competition as they are just starting to release in Rev A in areas. Unlike Sprint which has some level of deployment like HSDPA or UMTS. But GSM is the way to go for international roaming, and I won't argue with that.
"It's quite obvious I think that Cingular is building out the coverage first and will raise the bandwidth afterwards.
I'm not saying I'm in love with this approach - should I say fuck it? - but that's what they do.
But technologically speaking HSDPA clearly seems to be a generation ahead of EV-DO so it give me the piece of mind - hey my phone is capable for 3.6Mb already. "
The only way I see it as a generation ahead is in regards to it's transmission rate, but I have not seen any improvements in regards to latency which is a big issue for VOIP and other services. HSDPA is a long term solution unlike EV-DO what is suppose to be the long term solution is WiMAX but it's competitor is Flash-OFDM. THe question though is how much will they charge for a higher tier. I don't think Cingular is going to allow you to use HSDPA for that price for long, I am sure of that. But if they do, they should simply change there prices to that instead of advertise prices which are x2 of what you are stating.
"I'm not saying there are no good results. I'm just saying the most likely reason VZ and Sprint did not go with HSDPA is probably the upgrade cost - if you notice every GSM provider went with UMTS/HSDPA. VZ and Sprint is pretty much a dying breed worldwide as even some of the originally CDMA providers are switching to HSDPA (in Asia)."
If upgrade costs where the issue Sprint would of gone with HSDPA instead as it's mostly simply a software upgrade unlike EV-DO it's a hardware upgrade and any upgrade they do use means they will need to re-purchase the new equipment. So what you are saying does not make sense.
"It's called Unlimited for Smartphone w/ Xpress Mail or whatever and it's $19.99. Trust me, I know, I use it on my HTC TyTn. " link for that sucker. I would be nice if you shared your discounts with the rest of us .
By the way to response to the second post:
The 15 dollar package is the Sprint PCS Vision package which includes unlimited web. But that does not allow you to use your phone as a modem (Ex. Connect to laptop) and only access it through the phone browser itself. Which is why people teathered the connection instead.
You can find out more info at sprintusers.com | |
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Michieru2
zzz zzz zzz
Premium
join:2005-01-28
Miami, FL | Re: Card will also work on Sprint's Rev-A network Most likely locked though from Verizon, unless you do unlock it and if I remember correctly. Sprint won't activate unless it has there name on it, but I think that applies to phones only. | |
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TKJunkMail
Enjoy the sun
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Avalon, NJ
·Sprint Mobile Broa..
 ·Comcast
| Re: Card will also work on Sprint's Rev-A network said by Michieru2 :Most likely locked though from Verizon, unless you do unlock it and if I remember correctly. Sprint won't activate unless it has there name on it, but I think that applies to phones only. Sprint is selling these exact same cards. But once software is loaded on the card, it may lock you to one vendor unless you load new software on it.
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My BLOG
My Web Page | |
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Noah Vail
Premium
join:2004-12-10
Lorton, VA
·RoadRunner Cable
| The new markets are...... In order of importance....
Yeehaa Junction Florida,
Perry West Virginia,
6 West Virginia,
Holy Moses Colorado,
Monkey Eyebrow Arizona,
Toad Suck Arkansas,
Knockemstiff Ohio,
Two Egg Florida,
Nameless Texas, and last and least...
Santa Claus Indiana.
You have been informed.
NV
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Abortion: Improves the Gene Pool! | |
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| tdar
join:2004-04-05
Satellite Beach, FL
| Re: The new markets are...... said by Noah Vail :In order of importance.... Yeehaa Junction Florida, ... You have been informed. NV it's not Yeehaa Junction....it's Yeehaw Junction....and yes it's REV A | |
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inteller
Sociopaths always win.
join:2003-12-08
Tulsa, OK | ev-do fanboys invade DSLR, footage at 11. so how many EV-DO posts can dslr put up in a week? Why is deadend technology supported here? | |
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| yahtzee
Premium
join:2000-12-03
Richmond, VA
| Re: ev-do fanboys invade DSLR, footage at 11. said by inteller :so how many EV-DO posts can dslr put up in a week? Why is deadend technology supported here? The same reason you are posting in all of the EVDO threads.
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tc1uscg
join:2005-03-09
Saint Clair Shores, MI
| Re: ev-do fanboys invade DSLR, footage at 11. said by yahtzee :said by inteller :so how many EV-DO posts can dslr put up in a week? Why is deadend technology supported here? The same reason you are posting in all of the EVDO threads. Good one.. one shot.. one kill | |
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Verizon's First EVDO Rev. A Card
Card will also work on Sprint's Rev-A network
