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Chiyo
Save Me Konata-Chan
Premium
join:2003-02-20
Minneapolis, MN
clubs: | Re: hmmm..... I was forced at gun point  | |
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| | jjeffeory
join:2002-12-04
USA | Re: hmmm..... The contracts are so one sided that the word 'contract' is laughable. Otherwise, I 'd agree with you. It just seems like Verizon is stretching a bit on this one. | |
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| fiberguy
My views are my own.
Premium
join:2005-05-20
| Normally I would agree with you 100% on this one.. however, some providers won't even let you sign up with your own phone with out a "contract".. and even then, these contracts are completely 1-sided agreements.. The providers have all of the control and can additionally terminate the contract ON you... however, you have no ability to terminate it on them for lack of performance.
Like I said, I'm usually the first one to tell people "don't buy it if you don't like or agree with it" or "don't sign the contract and pay full price" (which is THE smartest thing to do) but these days, it's WAY too over lopsided on the side of the providers which IS in fact wrong. | |
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ual
@bellsouth.net
| Re: hmmm..... said by fiberguy  :Normally I would agree with you 100% on this one.. however, some providers won't even let you sign up with your own phone with out a "contract".. and even then, these contracts are completely 1-sided agreements.. The providers have all of the control and can additionally terminate the contract ON you... however, you have no ability to terminate it on them for lack of performance. Like I said, I'm usually the first one to tell people "don't buy it if you don't like or agree with it" or "don't sign the contract and pay full price" (which is THE smartest thing to do) but these days, it's WAY too over lopsided on the side of the providers which IS in fact wrong. There is a roundabout way you can terminate it for lack of performance. Simply call them whenever you experience the problem that is annoying you. Dropped call? Time to call customer service. Slow internet? Try calling support to ask if they're having a problem somewhere. Poor coverage? Try asking if they're having problems with the local towers.
You annoy them enough and they will invoke their right to drop you. | |
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| | PhilAIV
join:2002-02-16
Carrollton, GA
clubs:
 ·AT&T Southeast
| said by fiberguy :some providers won't even let you sign up with your own phone with out a "contract".. The company this senator is referring to (Verzion Wireless) does in fact allow people to sign up without a contract, but most people don't want to pay full retail for a phone or don't have one laying around therefore they sign a contract. | |
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RARPSL
join:1999-12-08
Suffern, NY
| Re: hmmm..... said by PhilAIV :said by fiberguy :some providers won't even let you sign up with your own phone with out a "contract".. The company this senator is referring to (Verzion Wireless) does in fact allow people to sign up without a contract, but most people don't want to pay full retail for a phone If the company will sell me the phone for "Full Price" or at a subsidized price with a contract, then the EFT should be no more than the difference between the two prices (since the EFT is supposed to cover the cost of the subsidy) AND the monthly reduction should be prorated based on the remaining contract term (ex: For a 2 year contract, 1/24th of the subsidy per month). Thus the subsidy should be fully paid up at the end of the contract based on the number of months and the monthly reduction. If Verizon wants to reduce the EFT $10 a month then the EFT should be $240. At $375, the monthly reduction should be $15.65/month. Also, what is the "Full Price" and 24 month "Contract Price" on the droid (ie: Is the difference $375) anyway? | |
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| | | moonpuppy
join:2000-08-21
Glen Burnie, MD
·Verizon Online DSL
| said by PhilAIV :said by fiberguy :some providers won't even let you sign up with your own phone with out a "contract".. The company this senator is referring to (Verizon Wireless) does in fact allow people to sign up without a contract, but most people don't want to pay full retail for a phone or don't have one laying around therefore they sign a contract. But they sometimes disallow you from bringing your own phone to their network even if it was already on Verizon. Some stores take a dim view of allowing you to buy a phone off eBay and get service with them. | |
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| | | | PhilAIV
join:2002-02-16
Carrollton, GA
clubs:
·AT&T Southeast
| Re: hmmm..... said by moonpuppy :said by PhilAIV :said by fiberguy :some providers won't even let you sign up with your own phone with out a "contract".. The company this senator is referring to (Verizon Wireless) does in fact allow people to sign up without a contract, but most people don't want to pay full retail for a phone or don't have one laying around therefore they sign a contract. But they sometimes disallow you from bringing your own phone to their network even if it was already on Verizon. Some stores take a dim view of allowing you to buy a phone off eBay and get service with them. The only time they are allowed to deny a vzw phone from being activated is if it was blacklisted (reported stolen / lost) or no longer support (no agps for 911). If someone is running into this problem, escalating the situation will allow a manager to take care of it. | |
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roc5955
Premium
join:2005-11-26
Rosendale, NY | Ever try to negotiate your OWN contract with guys like these? It's simply impossible.
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"Understanding is a three-edged sword." | |
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BF69
join:2004-07-28
Camden, TN
| said by woody7 :Just don't commit to a 2 year deal and leave early  , no one is forcing you to sign the contract So if you find out the service sucks you should just have to stick it out? I'm 100% sure if you went into a restaurant and found the food inedible you would NOT have to pay for it.
Also the Droid is only available with a 2 year contract. So yeah your are forced. There isn't any month to month or 1 year contract. Even with a 2 year contract it's $200. Screw that. Some of these phones without contract are $500. Come on it's a phone not a computer or a TV. | |
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pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
 ·Comcast
| Re: hmmm..... said by BF69 :So if you find out the service sucks you should just have to stick it out? I'm 100% sure if you went into a restaurant and found the food inedible you would NOT have to pay for it. All cell phone companies give customers an opportunity to quit their service within a 2 week to 30 day period in case they are not happy with the service. If someone can't decide within this window that the service is right for them, then tough.
said by BF69 :Come on it's a phone not a computer or a TV. Yes, its a phone. This doesn't merit Congressional action. Perhaps people should think twice before entering into 2 year contracts if they can't afford to pay the ETF.
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Blagojevich / Madoff 2012! | |
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| | | jjeffeory
join:2002-12-04
USA | Re: hmmm..... 2 weeks isn't enough time to properly evaluate phones such as the phones in question. 30 days is barely enough time to properly test out a phone. The rest of your statement is just as insulting yet entertaining as usual. | |
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pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
·Comcast
| Re: hmmm..... said by jjeffeory :2 weeks isn't enough time to properly evaluate phones such as the phones in question. 30 days is barely enough time to properly test out a phone. The rest of your statement is just as insulting yet entertaining as usual. Simply because you cannot do it does not mean it isn't true.
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Blagojevich / Madoff 2012! | |
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| | | | | jjeffeory
join:2002-12-04
USA
| Re: hmmm..... It's not about me specifically. I am thinking of the people who travel and go outside their home area from time to time. Some people actually travel. I think a 6 week window would be pretty fair. Simply because you, me, or anyone thinks something is true doesn't make it true either. Come on... | |
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pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
·Comcast
| Re: hmmm..... said by jjeffeory :It's not about me specifically. I am thinking of the people who travel and go outside their home area from time to time. Some people actually travel. I think a 6 week window would be pretty fair. Simply because you, me, or anyone thinks something is true doesn't make it true either. Come on... So in other words, these people did not think through a major purchase. Perhaps they should not plan to switch carriers when a trip is being planned.
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Blagojevich / Madoff 2012! | |
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| | | | | | iansltx
join:2007-02-19
Golden, CO | Verizon, Sprint, AT&T and T-Mobile offer prepaid plans. Test out service using those. Infinite return window, no contract. | |
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| | | NOCTech75
join:2009-06-29
Marietta, GA
·AT&T Southeast
| pnh102 Yes, its a phone. This doesn't merit Congressional action. Perhaps people should think twice before entering into 2 year contracts if they can't afford to pay the ETF. Sure it does, the inept shit needs to prove she is "doing something for her constituents" to ensure she stays in power for her next term. | |
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| | | | JazzJRabbit
join:2003-09-27
Wheaton, IL
·WOW Internet and C..
| Re: hmmm..... Have you seen the price of those pre-paid plans? Last time I checked T-Mobile was the only one that charged 10 cents per minute with no monthly fees. Everyone else charged $1 per day if call is made. Plus you have to pay insane SMS charges and I bet you cannot add data plan to your pre-paid service either.
I've been using T-Mobile prepaid for years, still do, but outrageous SMS fees (0.05$ to receive and 0.20$ to send) and lack of data plans make it little more than an emergency cell phone while everybody else wants to use SMS/chat/send pictures/etc. | |
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| | | chimera
join:2009-06-09
Washington, DC | Except it does since this effects interstate commerce which the federal government is empowered to regulated. Ditto for the internet. | |
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pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
·Comcast
| Re: hmmm..... said by chimera :Except it does since this effects interstate commerce which the federal government is empowered to regulated. Ditto for the internet. Heh. In the eyes of the federal government, everything falls under interstate commerce, and can thus be regulated at the federal level.
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Blagojevich / Madoff 2012! | |
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| | | | | chimera
join:2009-06-09
Washington, DC | Re: hmmm..... Unfortunately they are becoming more and more correct about this too given the increasingly global nature of our economy and the size of major corporations. | |
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| | | | | | thevorpal
join:2007-11-16
Alexandria, VA
| Re: hmmm..... said by chimera :Unfortunately they are becoming more and more correct about this too given the increasingly global nature of our economy and the size of major corporations. Oh it has nothing to do about the global nature of the economy.
A stacked court decision in the 1930s lead to this when the Federal Government decided that the Federal Government could classify something as Interstate Commerce simply by placing any regulation on the object.
IE: according to the ruling, it is interstate commerce if the Legistlature decides to regulate any product in almost any way.
The logic was used in the following manner as well:
The federal government bans something (anything) your use of that product, even if produced by yourself and consumed by yourself results in market pressure in the BLACK market which crosses state lines.
The commerce clause is the most abused aspect of our entire government. | |
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BF69
join:2004-07-28
Camden, TN
| said by pnh102 :All cell phone companies give customers an opportunity to quit their service within a 2 week to 30 day period in case they are not happy with the service. If someone can't decide within this window that the service is right for them, then tough. Verizon has been proven to NOT honor that promise. So what's you answer to that smart guy?
Yes, its a phone. This doesn't merit Congressional action. Perhaps people should think twice before entering into 2 year contracts if they can't afford to pay the ETF.
If the phone is only available via 2 year contract what other option do they have EINSTIEN? You are obviously of the mindset that business should be able to fuck people all they want because they are busniess. As a person that runs his own small busines I do NOT feel that is the proper way to conduct one's self. I guess ome of us have morals others like you lack them. | |
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pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
·Comcast
| Re: hmmm..... said by BF69 :Verizon has been proven to NOT honor that promise. So what's you answer to that smart guy? How is that relevant to your original point of not being able to buy a spanking new phone without a 2 year contract?
said by BF69 :If the phone is only available via 2 year contract what other option do they have EINSTIEN? If you find the terms of the contract disagreeable to the point that it detracts from your use of the device, then perhaps you should reconsider such a purchase.
said by BF69 : You are obviously of the mindset that business should be able to fuck people all they want because they are busniess. And again, you fail to provide proof that businesses are forcing people into these contracts. If you do not like the terms of the contract and agree anyway, you really have no place to complain.
said by BF69 : As a person that runs his own small busines I do NOT feel that is the proper way to conduct one's self. I guess ome of us have morals others like you lack them. Based on the tone of your posts, I can't say that running a lemonade stand at your parents' house qualifies as a small business.
And as a business owner, you of all people should appreciate contract law.
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Blagojevich / Madoff 2012! | |
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| | | | Big Dawg 23
join:2002-03-27
Northfield, MN
| I can buy the phone on my current account with no two year contract. Look next to the $559.99 It says MONTH TO MONTH. So now what is your answer Smart Guy! | |
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| | | | | sonicmerlin
join:2009-05-24
Cleveland, OH
| Re: hmmm..... Except, unlike every other advanced industralized country, even if you bring your own cell phone you pay the same inflated monthly prices that people with subsidized contracts pay. So there`s a huge incentive to go with a 2 year contract, as you`ll save a great deal of money on the `subsidy`.
But you knew that already, didn`t you? | |
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pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
·Comcast
| Re: hmmm..... said by sonicmerlin :Except, unlike every other advanced industralized country, even if you bring your own cell phone you pay the same inflated monthly prices that people with subsidized contracts pay. So there`s a huge incentive to go with a 2 year contract, as you`ll save a great deal of money on the `subsidy`. But you knew that already, didn`t you? Well you can get the GSM-ish version of the Droid for only $800.
»welectronics.com/gsm/Motorola/Mo···OID.HTML
BUT THERE'S NO CONTRACT! WOOT!
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Blagojevich / Madoff 2012! | |
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del ftw
@comcast.net | Not any more. Tmobile's prices are ~20 dollars a month less if you are not under contract. | |
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See 7 replies to this post |
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bjl
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Newport Beach, CA
| said by BF69 :Also the Droid is only available with a 2 year contract. FALSE! I can purchase it on VZW's website for $560 with no contract. With a one year contract, the phone is $270. It's still too much, but at least you have the option unlike the iPhone.
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flickr gallery | photo blog (rarely updated) | play mafia! | |
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| | | NOCTech75
join:2009-06-29
Marietta, GA
·AT&T Southeast
| Re: hmmm..... said by bjl :said by BF69 :Also the Droid is only available with a 2 year contract. FALSE! I can purchase it on VZW's website for $560 with no contract. With a one year contract, the phone is $270. It's still too much, but at least you have the option unlike the iPhone. Never let the truth get in the way of a good story. | |
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DSLInstaller
@covad.net | $560 - 1 year contract = $270 + $350 EFT (in case) = $620
You azre better off buying the phone with no contract...Just in case | |
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| | | | Markie
join:2003-07-26
Kalispell, MT
| Re: hmmm..... No, you're not, do some odds - if you leave early you'll SAVE AT MOST (remember proration) $60. After 6 months the contract is cheaper even if you are leaving early... If you do NOT leave early - and most people will keep a phone for a year at least - you save $290.
I'd say the odds are much better with the one year contract. Two year? No way, not to save only another $70... and the fact the phone is out of warranty that second year! | |
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RK
@jeans-wear.com
| said by bjl :said by BF69 :Also the Droid is only available with a 2 year contract. FALSE! I can purchase it on VZW's website for $560 with no contract. With a one year contract, the phone is $270. It's still too much, but at least you have the option unlike the iPhone. I just bought one for my secondary line through their website last night for 229 for a 1 year contract. A 2 year contract was 199, but I figured it was worth the extra 30 to not be locked for 2 years in case this smartphone war really heats up and produces some gems. | |
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| | skurfa
join:2006-03-10
Yorktown, VA
| I could be wrong, but I think the non-contract (unsubsidized) price is pretty much set by the phone manufacturer, not the carrier. And, by the way, these phone we are talking about ARE computers, they make the PC you paid $1500 for ten years ago, look like an abacus.
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Fairtax.org, It's time. | |
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jackie
@bsnl.in | Lucky we still have Cellswapper.com | |
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Matt
Take me down to the paradise city
Premium
join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC | Still Return You still have a 30-day window with Verizon, you just have to pay the activation fee and the prorated amount of usage.
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trafficcloak.com - pptp/sstp vpn services | |
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Mr Matt
join:2008-01-29
Eustis, FL
·Comcast
·Embarq
| Bullies!  The ETF should be the purchase price of the handset minus the initial price paid reduced by 1/24th of the unpaid balance each month on a 24 Month Contract. Initial price of a handset should be FMV not some inflated price. The ETF should not exceed the purchase price of the handset minus the amount paid when the contract was initiated. | |
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| jjeffeory
join:2002-12-04
USA | Re: Bullies! Very reasonable and something that should be done. | |
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BF69
join:2004-07-28
Camden, TN
| said by Mr Matt : The ETF should be the purchase price of the handset minus the initial price paid reduced by 1/24th of the unpaid balance each month on a 24 Month Contract. Initial price of a handset should be FMV not some inflated price. The ETF should not exceed the purchase price of the handset minus the amount paid when the contract was initiated. Yeah I'm not sure why some people here have a problem with deducting 1/24 of a ETF per month which is more reasonable than $10. Logic says if you have a 24 month contract that the ETF should be 1/24 per month. So it should be $14.58 per month not $10. And actually like you say the ETF shouldn't be higher than cost the phone. If it's a $100 phone there is no justification for a $350 ETF. | |
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| | thevorpal
join:2007-11-16
Alexandria, VA
| Re: Bullies! said by BF69 :said by Mr Matt : The ETF should be the purchase price of the handset minus the initial price paid reduced by 1/24th of the unpaid balance each month on a 24 Month Contract. Initial price of a handset should be FMV not some inflated price. The ETF should not exceed the purchase price of the handset minus the amount paid when the contract was initiated. Yeah I'm not sure why some people here have a problem with deducting 1/24 of a ETF per month which is more reasonable than $10. Logic says if you have a 24 month contract that the ETF should be 1/24 per month. So it should be $14.58 per month not $10. And actually like you say the ETF shouldn't be higher than cost the phone. If it's a $100 phone there is no justification for a $350 ETF. The point is the ETF needs to be reflective of the purchase cost rather than an arbitrary figure.
If you set the ETF at $24000, then even at a 1/24 reduction per month even the last month is punitive rather than used as restitution. SO the figure must be based on actual costs to prevent this abuse. | |
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| iansltx
join:2007-02-19
Golden, CO | Absolutely. | |
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chronoss2009
join:2008-09-23
·TekSavvy Solutions..
| and the unfairness is even more so if you consider that in there contracts they have the right to change it at anytime and by sounds of things they are closing the holes you can get out. AKA raising a fee on you is nto a contract breaker most times in these types and thats totally unfair. In Canada if you change anyhting you have THE RIGHT to leave without any early termination fees and trust me these greedy types will try it so make sure you audio tape all conversations and get the reps name and number for every talk.
EVERY TALK. | |
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DSLInstaller
@covad.net
| CANCEL !!! Do you really want to make a statement to wireless providers????? CANCEL your service for a total of a year. Just 10 years ago less than 1/2 us had a cell. It would be a great message and I'm sure then because of "customer concerns" and "customer needs" You will really see some competitve pricing. Look at Sprint in the future their numbers are so dismal that if a price war is to start they will be the ones to start it..... Remember this.... to the ATT, Verizon, T Mobile and Sprint reps who love to post on here. | |
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k1ll3rdr4g0n
join:2005-03-19
Homer Glen, IL
| The industry is compeitive ...to a point.
...and you are out of contract.
Oh well .
All I know is that I am out of AT&T's contract and am eyeing the Tilt 2, but if they aren't willing to do anything for me to keep me a customer, then there are PLENTY of competition out there that would.
Verizon has a permanent black mark for stupidly neutering their devices (so no Droid), T-Mobile hasn't had much luck with their service, been quite on all fronts from all other companies.
Crap.
At least I can use switching as leverage, which they don't have to know that I think the rest of the competition sucks  .
In case that doesn't pan out too well, anyone know of any good MNVOs? | |
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JimF
join:2003-06-15
Allentown, PA | Do what they do best Senators should stick to doing what they do best, making empty speeches, and let communications companies do what they do best, running their business. | |
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tuminatr
join:2003-03-19
Saint Paul, MN | obviousley there is a reason that Verizon is making the change they are a publicly traded company with stockholders to answer to they must be seeing red in the smart phone contract cancellations | |
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TechWhiz
join:2004-10-30
Phoenix, AZ
| Price Price Price Present pricing for Motorola Droid without being tied down:
2-year 'contract' $200 + $375 ETF = $575
Month-to-month from Verizon = $559
Direct from Motorola = $600
It's all about the same deal. If you've gotta pay activation (~$40?) with the month-to-month, it's a better deal to just pay the ETF at any point during your contract. | |
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malichi
@pg.com | mark up pricing The mark up pricing on these devices are so utterly rediculous anyway. People sign those so call contracts because they dont have $400+ to spend on a $20-30 device. We should all migrate to prepay and see what they do then. | |
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Verizon's Higher ETFs Annoy Senator
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