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Vermont Is Wiring Itself With Fiber Because Nobody Else Will
East Central Vermont Community Fiber Network moving forward...
by Karl Bode Thursday 29-Jul-2010 tags: coverage · business · alternatives · bandwidth · municipal · consumers
Vermont already wasn't exactly a great state for broadband, given the largely rural state is a ROI nightmare for large ISP bean counters. Their broadband fortunes were recently made substantially worse by Fairpoint Communications, who acquired Verizon's unwanted New England DSL network, then subsequently imploded under the not so watchful eye of Vermont regulators. Vermont's been tired of waiting for uninterested ISPs to wire them so they're working hard at wiring themselves.

The result is the East Central Vermont Community Fiber Network, which tells the Burlington Free Press that the 22-town telecommunications network is "well under way," complete with mysterious financiers. We've covered this network effort before, noting how it's the brain child of a gentleman named Tim Nulty, who has repeatedly declared that running fiber to rural areas, if done right, is perfectly economical. This network (which will offer just broadband and phone service but not TV, for obvious economic reasons) is his opportunity to prove it:

Project Director Tim Nulty said the pilot would "prove our concept" of creating a high-speed Internet network for rural Vermonters, at no risk to taxpayers. Nulty has projected profitability for the network in its fifth year of operation, if 49 percent of the households in the 22 towns subscribe. . . He declined to identify the source of the funding for the project, but said the $75 million network is no longer in the running for a stimulus loan from the U.S. Department of Agriculture. "We have some private investment," he said. "We will raise some additional funds."

Regardless of where you fall on the ages-old municipal broadband debate, Vermont has been an interesting broadband state to watch, from Fairpoint's collapse and efforts to prevent these kinds of community efforts from succeeding, to the fact that a Google executive is running for Vermont Governor with broadband as one of his primary campaign platforms.

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rustydusty

join:2009-09-29

Awesome news!

I love seeing stories like this. Up here in Canada, we are trying to do the same thing. Currently a town in central Alberta trying to wire the whole town with fiber. When cheap ISP's don't want to do it, have to do it yourself I guess.
FLATLINE

join:2007-02-27
Buffalo, NY

Re: Awesome news!

I love this as well. Mainly because ISPs are turning bandwidth into a commodity and I don't believe it should be like that. Bandwidth is a means to an end where many of the services used over the internet are where the real money should be made.
stanleycr1

join:2008-12-02
Ivor, VA

Re: Awesome news!

I AGREE

Transmaster
Don't Blame Me I Voted For Bill and Opus

join:2001-06-20
Cheyenne, WY
This is what is going to have to happen. This is a "Build it and they will come" situation. In today's world a fast and robust fiber system will be a great thing to have in order for a state and community to attract business. With a good communication system a large on line catalog company such as Tiger Direct, J&R, or New Egg might just be talked into locating a distribution warehouse in Vermont. All it would take is to attract one large company and with the proper incentives other companies seeing how the first was treated would be very interested in relocating, Especially if you where a company in New York facing ruinous taxes.
--
I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man's reasoning powers are not above the monkey's.
- Mark Twain in Eruption
hottboiinnc
ME

join:2003-10-15
Cleveland, OH

Re: Awesome news!

Tiger Direct? Are you speaking of the same company that actually keeps its customers rebates? if so who would want them in their town?

Transmaster
Don't Blame Me I Voted For Bill and Opus

join:2001-06-20
Cheyenne, WY

1 edit

Re: Awesome news!

said by hottboiinnc:

Tiger Direct? Are you speaking of the same company that actually keeps its customers rebates? if so who would want them in their town?
I have had no problems with Tiger Direct in the 15+ years I have purchased stuff from them. As for the rebates I will not purchase anything from anybody that has a mail in rebate these are handled by third party companies that are indeed a rip-off. I only purchase stuff that is on sale. If you watch for it whatever you are interested will go on sale and most of the time it is cheaper then it would have been with the bogus mail in rebate. Here is an current example; a 1 TB Seagate 3.5" HD for 59.99 there is no mail in rebate. This is Seagate's version of the Western Digital Green drive and turns at 5900RPM to save energy.

»www.tigerdirect.com/applications···-1000AS4

When I was building my present computer I thought I had a problem with the motherboard, and CPU, turns out it was unclear instructions that came with the ASUS motherboard concerning a power input on the MoBo that didn't have the same plug on the power supply. The customer service people replaced the mother board without question. But what they did with the CPU is what made me a loyal customer. instead of sending a replacement CPU which as I recall was a AMD X2 64 3400 they credited my Visa account with the purchase price. They didn't tell me this and when I didn't receive the replacement I checked my account and found the refund. Then I discovered the reason. I called on a Friday, the following Monday AMD cut the price on the 64 X2 series almost in half. They must have known this. I was able to purchase a much faster CPU (5400) for half the price of the 3400 that originally came with the kit.

If I was a city manager and Tiger Direct wanted to build a distribution warehouse that might employ a couple of hundred of my fellow townspeople you bet.
--
I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man's reasoning powers are not above the monkey's.
- Mark Twain in Eruption

wvsparkey
Premium
join:2008-05-11
Proctorville, OH

Re: Awesome news!

Trans... TD is a bit deceptive about those rebates that they offer, you have to pay a yearly fee to a third party to avail yourself the $$'s. They will (they, 3rd party) will place an auto deduct on your creditcard for membership in the so called "discount club" and hope that it will go un-noticed on your bank records.
It may be an old scam but it still works. (fool born every day and all of that kind of stuff)

Transmaster
Don't Blame Me I Voted For Bill and Opus

join:2001-06-20
Cheyenne, WY

Re: Awesome news!

Ya wvaparky I know about this membership scam, Didn't drink that Koolaid either. I have honestly never had any problems with Tiger Direct, or Newegg. Like any other online outfit you have to surf with your eyes open.

The point of my post is with such a system in place Vermont would have a strong selling point to attract business's. I remember a TV ad' of a couple of decades ago. This person brought his boss out to a isolated field apparently in the middle of no-where. His boss wanted to know why he was here this person pointed out they could build for something like 3 dollars a square foot there was a highway, and railroad close by for raw materials, and shipping, plus they could get fast internet to handle orders The Boss realizing what he had just been told started to jump up and down yelling 3 dollars a square foot, 3 dollars a square foot..... This could be Vermont. For that matter it could be Wyoming, or any other State smart enough to build such a system.

Wouldn't it be sweet to have Verizon, AT&T and other ISP's have to come hat in hand to ask a given state if they could please have some bandwidth on your system. I can dream can't I.
--
I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man's reasoning powers are not above the monkey's.
- Mark Twain in Eruption
hottboiinnc
ME

join:2003-10-15
Cleveland, OH
Reviews:
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Even the rebates handled by TD various people have reported never to even see them. My know people that placed orders with TD and have hundreds out in those rebates. And that was 3+ years ago, never to hear again from TD again after complaining about them.
--
www.twopugsbrand.com Kosher, Vegan, and Organic Certified Dog and Cat treats/foods and other products! www.etsy.com/shop/snakx4u/ Organic, Kosher, Gluten Free, Vegan Human Baked Goods

cableties
Premium
join:2005-01-27
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
TIGER DIRECT TROLL!!! (body snatchers noise)
TIGER DIRECT TROLL!!!

So, 15years in business. Really? i think I saw one of their catalogs in 15 years and hardly a deal. And ANY catalog company that holds your rebates deserves to go to the wayside...

If I were a Vermonter, I'd rather have Tractor Supply located there, but why would I leave the warm south for a salt-belt, liberal, sandal-wearing, cold, state that doesn't have anything better than DSL (when it works)?

If you were a Vermont City Manager, I would have you removed from office, pension removed and audited every year.

Trust me, you ever BEEN to Vermont? Living in Wyoming, I don't think you would like it...

rawgerz
In Debt we trust
Premium
join:2004-10-03
Grove City, PA
If I was an investor, I'd be somewhat concerned considering the guy lost his own domain.
»www.valleyfiber.net/
devnuller

join:2006-06-10
Cambridge, MA
Reviews:
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1 edit
said by FLATLINE:

I love this as well. Mainly because ISPs are turning bandwidth into a commodity and I don't believe it should be like that. Bandwidth is a means to an end where many of the services used over the internet are where the real money should be made.
If the real money is made in the over the Internet services, why do businesses want to invest in the commodity infrastructure?
FLATLINE

join:2007-02-27
Buffalo, NY

1 edit

Re: Awesome news!

Carefull now. I didn't say that's where the real money is made. I'm saying that's where it should be made. Like for instance streaming movies and tv. If done right broadband can be cheaper than what most of us get charged now while still providing enough capital for network investment. Companies who provide services like streaming tv would charge appropriately and also contribute to the costs of using the network But in this case there is no company responsible for investing in infrastructure directly. As it is right now The cost of gaining access especially after seeing where isp's are looking to go with the pricing of bandwidth will be more expensive than the many services we use. Its backwards in my opinion and is slowing progress.
devnuller

join:2006-06-10
Cambridge, MA
Reviews:
·Comcast
·Charter

Re: Awesome news!

Yep. And as the services migrate and the real money/revenue migrates away from infrastructure providers, the capital investment (without funding) around "dumb pipe" growth will logically be called into question...

Investment costs in network growth don't go away, they shift. But who do they shift to?

said by FLATLINE:

Companies who provide services like streaming tv would charge appropriately and also contribute to the costs of using the network
In the real world this is not really the case. These Companies do not contribute directly. They go to a "peer" or transit supplier of the broadband infrastructure provider and negotiate a below-cost or free connection. The peer or transit supplier doesn't carry the traffic more than 1 router so they can offer this. Many times offering it for free allows them to may $$ from their transit customer, the infrastructure provider.

So, the Companies who provide streaming TV do not pay the full cost of infrastructure growth to deliver these services and the infrastructure company actually carrying the streaming TV to your home does not get any recovery on these costs. In some cases their costs actually go up unless they give it away for free.

Net neutrality has many benefits, but one thing people don't realize is that it guarantees that the only people that will pay for the full cost of end to end traffic are the consumers.
FLATLINE

join:2007-02-27
Buffalo, NY

Re: Awesome news!

Youve been fooled into thinking what your being charged now isnt enough to turn a nice profit while also having money to invest into the infrastructure.

In the real world things can change and be made right. The reason why you dont see the right thing being done is because people like you and me havent spoken loud enough, we havent voted with our wallets, we didnt vote for the right political leaders, we havent pressured our political leaders enough, we havent banded together as one large consumer group and pooled our resources to overcome lobbyists. I could spend all day on examples of what we havent done. The American citizen has become a non player in todays world and untill we get our act together its only going to get worse.

Its not like this is the only area that needs attention from us either. We have become slackers on these fronts. Maybe we always have been I dunno.
Ulmo

join:2005-09-22
San Jose, CA
Reviews:
·SONIC.NET
·callwithus
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said by devnuller:

Net neutrality has many benefits, but one thing people don't realize is that it guarantees that the only people that will pay for the full cost of end to end traffic are the consumers.
That's only one version of "net neutrality", but one of the ones that makes the most sense. It also is quite reasonable to understand and reasonable in fact: if we are paying for it, we are the bosses, moreso (not entirely). Thus comes the benefits of being boss. Unfortunately, since it's delivered en masse via mass production, there is some aggregation of those payments that get funneled through things we individually don't control, so there disappears most of what we loose of our individuality and control. However, it's definitely a model that makes sense in terms of being less fascist and controlling of the individuals of the populace, and therefore beneficial.
GraysonPeddi

join:2010-06-28
Tallahassee, FL

Hmmm... Community-developed Fiber Network, huh?

Very interesting, even though I live in Orlando, FL. I agree with the others that it's nice to see some stories like this.

wvsparkey
Premium
join:2008-05-11
Proctorville, OH

Re: Hmmm... Community-developed Fiber Network, huh?

as soon as my numbers come up in the state lottery I will have FIOS too!! It will take that in rural America

DaveDude
No Fear

join:1999-09-01
New Jersey
kudos:1
Reviews:
·ViaTalk
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1 edit

i guess no politicians couldnt line there pockets

This is just means no politicians could line there pockets, with stimulus funds or whatever. So the towns had to fix it themselves. I guess the big politicos and big telcos couldn't come to a way to soak the consumers. So the towns will do to themselves, in 10 years these systems will be the rural phone companies again, only to be bought out by companies. Its history repeating just with fiber, instead of copper.
--
They Live... We Sleep...

“Spreading the wealth around” never results in a better outcome for people. It always results in destruction.

Ulmo

join:2005-09-22
San Jose, CA
Reviews:
·SONIC.NET
·callwithus
·Vitelity VOIP

Re: i guess no politicians couldnt line there pockets

said by DaveDude:

This is just means no politicians could line there pockets, with stimulus funds or whatever. So the towns had to fix it themselves. I guess the big politicos and big telcos couldn't come to a way to soak the consumers. So the towns will do to themselves, in 10 years these systems will be the rural phone companies again, only to be bought out by companies. Its history repeating just with fiber, instead of copper.
Yes, but if they didn't, then where would they be? Without at all.

Plus, the life of fiber is pretty darn good (assuming they use single-mode).
cw30000

join:2008-07-11

I can see lawsuit from ISP

I can see lawsuits from ISP going to stop this. Or they will use their lobbying power to prevent this from happen.

If they can't/won't do it, no one else can.

RARPSL

join:1999-12-08
Suffern, NY

Re: I can see lawsuit from ISP

said by cw30000:

I can see lawsuits from ISP going to stop this.
Any attempt for them to sue should be thrown out of court since they have no standing to sue in the first place. This is a private company not one using public funds so they should have no standing. Especially since they have refused to compete by offering their own fiber.

AlphaOne
I see
Premium
join:2004-02-21

"mysterious financiers"

Google ?
Bob61571

join:2008-08-08
Washington, IL

Re: "mysterious financiers"

Ben & Jerry ?

Duramax08
Ya rly.
Premium
join:2008-08-03
San Antonio, TX

Re: "mysterious financiers"

Walmart?

ThrowDemsOut
If you can't convince 'em, confuse 'em
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Mullica Hill, NJ
kudos:4

1 edit

Source of funding?

Google executive is running for Vermont Governor
Buying his way to victory with help from the Google billionaires?
Kearnstd
Elf Wizard
Premium
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ

Re: Source of funding?

said by ThrowDemsOut:

Google executive is running for Vermont Governor
Buying his way to victory with help from the Google billionaires?
hey what a better bribe than FTTH to get votes!
--
[65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports
sonicmerlin

join:2009-05-24
Cleveland, OH
kudos:1
said by ThrowDemsOut:

Google executive is running for Vermont Governor
Buying his way to victory with help from the Google billionaires?
You're one to speak.
mgamer20o0

join:2003-12-01
Norwalk, CA

Vermont Is Wiring Itself With Fiber Because Nobody Else Will

there always worse ways they can spend their money.
dynodb
Premium,VIP
join:2004-04-21
Minneapolis, MN

LOL

Nulty has projected profitability for the network in its fifth year of operation, if 49 percent of the households in the 22 towns subscribe...
ROFLMAO. Did April Fools Day come late this year?

milnoc

join:2001-03-05
H3B
kudos:1

Re: LOL

If the price per consumer is right, that could happen.

Then again, I'm just a naive socialist Canadian who believes governments can do good if they set their minds to it.
--
Watch my future television channel's public test broadcast!
»thecanadianpublic.com (click "Watch Live!")
devnuller

join:2006-06-10
Cambridge, MA
Reviews:
·Comcast
·Charter
said by dynodb:

Nulty has projected profitability for the network in its fifth year of operation, if 49 percent of the households in the 22 towns subscribe...
ROFLMAO. Did April Fools Day come late this year?
In 2006 Verizon predicted that FiOS will generate positive operating income by 2009, as a result of declining operational costs as well as growing revenues. The company expects to invest $18 billion in net capital from 2004 through 2010 in deploying the fiber network and attracting up to 7 million FiOS Internet customers and up to 4 million FiOS TV customers by the end of 2010. This was predicted to be 20-25% penetration

I heard they spent a bit more than that but even including any operational copper reduction benefit (which Vermont does not have), the profitability is unclear with their build stopping and current 3.8 million total FiOS Internet customers and 3.2 million total FiOS TV customers.
Gami00

join:2010-03-11
Mississauga, ON

Re: LOL

it really depends on the area..

they release FIOS in mature markets with lots of ppl, and some places with equal competition from cable.
Cable in-turn offered Doc3 spds to compete with it.

this fiber is being laid out in a neglected area, which doesn't seem to have any plans for upgrades considering the major player in this area is basically dead.

with the above in mind, the Nulty dudes projections have a high chance of being true. The only way for him to lose would be if the big players spent money in the infrastructure of the same area.

Which by all current account, they're not gonna do,
biochemistry

join:2003-05-09
92361
If anyone decided to build out broadband to my neighborhood they would get close to 100% of the customers because we're all stuck with dialup or dialup plus (satellite internet). It makes good sense to hit the rural areas. No competition!
Sammer

join:2005-12-22
Canonsburg, PA
said by devnuller:

The company expects to invest $18 billion in net capital from 2004 through 2010 in deploying the fiber network and attracting up to 7 million FiOS Internet customers and up to 4 million FiOS TV customers by the end of 2010. This was predicted to be 20-25% penetration
Their current penetration where FiOS is available is about 29% and they are losing a much higher number of landlines in other areas. The completion date in some of the largest cities where Verizon has already committed to FiOS and committed capital is more like 2014 than 2010. Time is money a significant amount of advertising is wasted on those who can't get FiOS service even if they want it.

Rick
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-06
Waterbury, CT

I've been hard at work uncovering who the mysterious

financier is and believe I've uncovered the source.

»www.internetlifestyle.com/blog/w···tand.JPG

10.00 collected..74,999,990 to go!


Transmaster
Don't Blame Me I Voted For Bill and Opus

join:2001-06-20
Cheyenne, WY

Re: I've been hard at work uncovering who the mysterious

said by Rick:

financier is and believe I've uncovered the source.

»www.internetlifestyle.com/blog/w···tand.JPG

10.00 collected..74,999,990 to go!


Now that is a real howler. Does that mean somebody has to drink the Kool Aid
--
I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man's reasoning powers are not above the monkey's.
- Mark Twain in Eruption
WHT

join:2010-03-26
kudos:3
Love the way the ONT is hidden in the mailbox.

tim_k
Buttons, Bows, Beamer, Shadow, Kasey
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said by Rick:

financier is and believe I've uncovered the source.

»www.internetlifestyle.com/blog/w···tand.JPG

10.00 collected..74,999,990 to go!


Wait til the local regulators stop by and make sure he has a permit
--
RIP my babies Buttons 1/15/94-2/9/07, Beamer 7/24/08, & Bows 12/17/94-10/11/09
tmc8080

join:2004-04-24
Brooklyn, NY
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS

telco's last breath

interesting that fairpoint spent virtually their last dollar lobbying to prevent competition. this can succeed.. afterall small businesses are supposed to be able to get loans much easier now... Obama promised (doh!)... :*)

Wouldn't this have been a better photo op than some business that was doing fine and DID NOT WANT money to expand their business? I get it-- it did not fit in the Pres. schedule to be in NY for the talk show a couple hours later to complain about the press coverage.

Still, if this pans out.. they should expand into other Verizon sell-off geographies... I'm sure some W-VA folks would like to see a project or two with fiber in it...

Ytsejamer1

join:2008-01-18
Somersworth, NH

This is socialism..this is crap...

Come on...big businesses have our interests at heart! We don't need our precious few public resources (man hours and money) spent on giving internet access to a small group of people. This is a waste...this is a socialist takeover of the ISP business.

Now that I've got that out of my system...it was almost too tough to type without a pang of neausea. Anyways...this is great news. I think in the future (the next ten to twenty years), internet service will be similar to a utility that towns and cities should provide to their citizens. I commend Vermont for a little bit of forward thinking and trying to do something themselves.
Thatgeekinit

join:2002-05-01
Washington, DC

Re: This is socialism..this is crap...

I think that just like good water systems, functional sewers, roads and reliable power grids, it is in many communities but especially rural community's interests to build out very fast broadband so as to encourage businesses to utilize their other favorable conditions like low real estate prices, lower labor costs, sometimes cheaper electricity, lower CoL, nice scenery.

There are many favorable things about living in Vermont and other relatively rural states and regions but the near absence of decent broadband means that young professionals and the companies that hire them will not want to be out in the dial-up wilderness.

If I had a job where I could telecommute 80%+, I would love to live in Vermont. But how can I telecommute over satellite or dialup or slow dsl?
--
Yes, actually I am a network engineer. Why don't you have a cup of coffee and make sure my HBO is working and I'll worry about getting my cable modem and my router connected.

bullydog

@verizon.net

vermont community fiber

yea-tim nulty is the same guy who started burlington telcom then quit after the company lost so much money that now the city has to default on the loans, cant make payments and have drained the escrow..this type of build out needs a cash cow without the big investment it wont work-why do you think verizon walked away and comcast is sitting this out

Van
Premium
join:2009-07-08
New Orleans, LA
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS

I am sure this is the point where the companies

that do have service in Vermont tell everyone that nobody else should challenge them whatsoever and that if someone does, it should be deemed illegally

And those people with little to no service? I am sure these companies will claim that the "consumers win" by their current service

How? Uh, well, like almost always....no clue

FastiBook

join:2003-01-08
Newtown, PA

Power to teh people!

Oh and don't forget to also develop high speed organic maple syrup delivery system.... to my house only. I swaer I will resist reselling....

Good job VT. Can't wait to see how it turns out!

- A
--
LETS GO METS!

DBNH

@comcast.net

We Don't Need No Stinking Fairpoint

"When cheap ISP's don't want to do it, have to do it yourself I guess."

I guess you think that the ISP owes your a fiber connection just because you want one?

Do you have any idea how expensive it is to deploy and maintain a fiber network? Let alone one in a rural area where revenue will be extremely limited because of the low population?

It's fitting that in a state like VT, full of left wing whackadoodles they'd feel entitled to something formal private business.

Two things are going to happen with this state built fiber network.

1. It's not going to get built at all.

2. it will be built but will be a complete unusable joke.

Not_True

@comcast.net

Financial Wizardry?

I believe the Mayor of Burlington would disagree with Tim Nulty's financial wizardry to make this project work. His last muni fiber project in Burlington, VT did go as well as he claims.

Read the letter from the mayor himself...

»www.ci.burlington.vt.us/docs/1773.pdf

My guess is there is no financing. The guy can't even pay for him own domain name...

www.valleyfiber.net
Ulmo

join:2005-09-22
San Jose, CA
Reviews:
·SONIC.NET
·callwithus
·Vitelity VOIP

Re: Financial Wizardry?

I think "Financial Wizardry" is a baby boomer phrase for "I want to be delusional about the costs and revenues".

I too doubt that this guy is good at "financing".

However, the concept is sound, although his financial details look fake. (5 year ROI? No.)

However, this could be done in some way without financial "wizardry".

DBNH

@comcast.net

Not happening

Financial wizadry?

This guy sounds like any other jackhole with an overinflated view of himself.

Let's begin by stating the obvious.

Bringing broadband/fiber to rural northern New England is not going be a very lucrative endeavor for anybody at this point in time.

It's not as if private companies are lining up to do it.

New Hampshire and Maine believe that Fairpoint is capable of doing it and they must have found Fairpoint's numbers somewhat reasonable or they wouldn't have agreed to it. Vermont on the other hand, for some reason told Fairpoint to go pound sand. Now they think they're going to do it themselves and make it work.

Aint happening. This Mcnutty guy or whatever his name was may have been in the telecom industry but he sounds like a shyster.

The state has 75 million already to begin the project? That great but where's the money going to come from to maintain the network infrastructure for the next ten years, then after that....the ten after that..........It's going to cost much more than 75 million. Is the state planning to raise taxes to fund this? Is there a poll of private anonymous donors with bottomless pockets?

Vermont ranks second only to Massachusetts in New England when it comes nutty liberal arrogance. It's a nice place to go skiing and look at leaves in the fall but beyond that there's a reason why it's the least populous state in New England.

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