Very Fine PrintComcast migration wizard questions... ( old news - 11:08AM Wednesday Jul 02 2003) tags: legal · privacyAs a follow up to yesterday's discussion of the AT&T Broadband to Comcast e-mail migration; users who agreed to use the company's e-mail transition wizard likely agreed to much more than they bargained for. The agreement, which users must accept when they run the wizard, doesn't give the customer very much wiggle room, and makes some fairly weighty demands on the customer. Take this entry in the agreement for instance: "Credit Inquiries. You authorize Comcast to make inquiries and to receive information about your credit experience from others, enter this information in your file, and disclose this information concerning you to appropriate third parties for reasonable business purposes." Could the words "appropriate" and "reasonable" be any more vague? Many ISP's use the term "affiliates" to discern who they will share personal information with. As it turns out, an "affiliate" is usually anyone with even a fleeting relationship with the company, who in turn has no pesky privacy policies to adhere to and usually sells that information to spammers. If it's safe to assume that kind of logic is being applied here, where exactly is your credit information going? From our brief examination, the agreement also seemingly allows Comcast to arbitrarily open and read your email without your knowledge and/or consent; it also allows Comcast to perform firmware upgrades to your cable modem at their discretion, regardless of who owns it. Some of this is common fare in user agreements, some very much isn't. The signer of the agreement also agrees not to participate in any future class action suits that may be brought against Comcast for whatever reason: "There shall be no right or authority for any claims to be arbitrated on a class action or consolidated basis or on bases involving claims brought in a purported representative capacity on behalf of the general public."Those interested in further reading what they agreed to can examine the agreement here in zipped text format. Users in our Comcast forum can help former AT&T Broadband customers reconfigure all of their settings manually, if running the wizard doesn't strike their fancy.
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hobgoblin
Sortof Agoblin
Premium
join:2001-11-25
Orchard Park, NY
clubs: | In an ideal world.... These sort of documents would not be needed, However it's not ideal.
Looks like the normal CYA type of fodder.
Hob
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"Consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds." - Ralph Waldo Emerson | |
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get the quote right
@cable.earthlin | Re: In an ideal world.... Emerson's line is:
"FOOLISH consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds" | |
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Maxo
Your tax dollars at work.
Premium,VIP
join:2002-11-04
Tallahassee, FL
clubs:
 ·Embarq
| There oughta be a law against allowing companies to put things like this in their TOS. On top of that nobody should purchase service from a company which makes such demands.
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God I love being a turtle. - Michaelangelo »www.maxolasersquad.com | |
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Smokey
Even drunk on a bet ya make it to Canada
Premium
join:2003-05-20
Va Beach
clubs: | Re: There oughta be a law ya now you have to read the fine print thats on the fine print!! | |
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Boogeyman
Drive it like you stole it
Premium
join:2002-12-17
Huntsville, AL
| Especially since every time someone checks your credit, it goes down. My mother was trying to buy a house a few years ago and the real estate agent checked her credit, something wasnt right with it, so she checked it again, and again, like once a week for a month. By the time it was over my mom couldnt even get a credit card with a $100 limit. So if Comcast reserves the right to check your credit whenever they please, dont be suprised to find that you soon have no credit left.
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what doesn't this button do? | |
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drakkkar
join:2003-02-07
Houston, TX
| Re: There oughta be a law Unfortunately you cant challenge the inquiries on your report either. For example if someone who you did not give access checks your credit, you cannot have that removed, even if you prove that they accessed it without your permission.
Overall individuals have very little protections against having an unfair credit rating (not that the system is even very fair the way it is supposed to work.(
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~Age and Treachery will always overcome Youth and Skill.~ | |
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pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
 ·Comcast
| Slightly OT - Credit Reports said by drakkkar  :
not that the system is even very fair the way it is supposed to work.(
I remember back in college how students would constantly get hounded with credit card offers... one of the key selling point was that they could be used to build up your credit. I had a few of the credit cards and with each one I was in good standing. I used them to refinance other debts at lower interest rates and I would then cancel them when they were paid off. Fast-forward a few years later when I am trying to buy a car. I find out during the financing process that these credit cards did nothing to build my credit at all. It turns out that they only count against you if you fubar things with the credit cards. They do nothing overall to increase your credit worthiness.
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Jewel got Britney-fied! There is hope for the world yet! | |
| | | | | vic102482
Premium
join:2002-04-30
Upper Marlboro, MD
| Re: Slightly OT - Credit Reports said by pnh102 :
They do nothing overall to increase your credit worthiness.
It sucks, each inquiry will lower your rating, and if you get 5 or 10 inquiries from different companies......
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I tie a rope around my penis and jump from a tree, don't you wanna grow up to be just like me!!!! | |
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pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
·Comcast
| Re: Slightly OT - Credit Reports said by vic102482 :
It sucks, each inquiry will lower your rating, and if you get 5 or 10 inquiries from different companies......
I never understood why this was the case. What does looking at a credit report have to do with credit worthiness?
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Jewel got Britney-fied! There is hope for the world yet! | |
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bistro777
Donuts-Is There Anything They Can't Do?
Premium
join:2002-02-07
Englewood, CO
| Re: Slightly OT - Credit Reports "The more inquiries on a borrower's credit file, the more likely a borrower may be not to pay his or her bills as agreed" according to the Fair, Isaac and Co. - the nation's leading credit scoring firm and inventor of the FICO scoring system used in over 75% of all mortgage loan originations.
Numerous inquiries, according to lenders, are often a sign that a consumer is obtaining multiple credit cards at once, increasing his/her credit risk and perhaps overextending their ability to repay debt.
That means when you comparison shop online for home or auto loans, guess what?!? Fair, Isaac says it ignores inquiries within the past 30 days when scoring your credit, but lenders DO consider too many inquiries to be a red flag. They typically stay on your credit report for two years(!) and can definitely impact the rate you receive for a car or mortgage loan.
So to give anyone, Comcast or your paperboy, the right to do this with your personal info, can certainly harm your perceived credit worthiness. And to hide this all in the “fine print” is shameful.
You say “carpe diem;” I say “carpe, eat ‘em.” | |
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pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
·Comcast
| Re: Slightly OT - Credit Reports said by bistro777 :
So to give anyone, Comcast or your paperboy, the right to do this with your personal info, can certainly harm your perceived credit worthiness.
Thanks for the information. Although the reasoning still makes no sense to me... if your credit record is clean, it just shouldn't make any difference how many creditors see it.
But other than that, its too bad you can't bite those people who look into your credit report back in the @$$.
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Jewel got Britney-fied! There is hope for the world yet!
[text was edited by author 2003-07-02 14:56:33] | |
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bistro777
Donuts-Is There Anything They Can't Do?
Premium
join:2002-02-07
Englewood, CO
| Re: Slightly OT - Credit Reports Their reasoning, I think, is it appears you suddenly need credit lines (whether home equity, credit card) for reasons that might include job loss, illness, etc. - with the potential risk of not being able to repay, especially, any unsecured credit lines.
I agree it sucks that this impacts your status in the eyes of lenders, especially in cases where you're "rate shopping" for a loan or where credit checks are run without your explicit consent. (That the crux of the whole opt-IN v. opt-out argument in the link I posted from the Electronic Privacy Information Center.)
"I have been battling something I cannot win and I am withdrawing from the field with honor." -- - actor Roddy McDowall shortly before his death in 1998 | |
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Splat dot Splat
@microworld.com | Re: Slightly OT - Credit Reports If you go shopping for car insurance they do a credit check even if you are going to pay cash.
This has bit people so many times the state of Utah is contemplating laws against it. | |
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Jim Gurd
Premium
join:2000-07-08
Plymouth, MI
·Comcast
| Re: Slightly OT - Credit Reports said by Maxo :
If I'm understanding this correctly you could just start a company and then say someone screwed you over and put bad credit on their report. The person has no way to challenge it so they are just stuck with it. I experienced an issue where a company billed my telephone company (Sprint) on my behalf of some items I never purchased nor received. So Sprint bills me, and my options are pay Sprint or face bad credit. The legal fees to fight it are more than the $26 bill. Sounds like companies can do whatever they want with your credit and you don't really have a say in it at all.
Tell them you are disputing the charges and are willing to sign an affidavit of fraud. | |
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drakkkar
join:2003-02-07
Houston, TX
| Re: Slightly OT - Credit Reports said by Jim Gurd :
Tell them you are disputing the charges and are willing to sign an affidavit of fraud.
That works if you place fraudulent charges, but if they were to simply do multiple inquiries, there is no way to have those removed (hit someone with 20-50 inquiries, and see what happens to thier credit).
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~Age and Treachery will always overcome Youth and Skill.~ | |
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AmeritecTech
Change we can believe in, 1922
Premium
join:2002-09-06
Houston, TX
| Re: There oughta be a law said by drakkkar :
Unfortunately you cant challenge the inquiries on your report either. For example if someone who you did not give access checks your credit, you cannot have that removed, even if you prove that they accessed it without your permission.
Overall individuals have very little protections against having an unfair credit rating (not that the system is even very fair the way it is supposed to work.(
It is illegal to pull a person's credit without getting their signed permission. Doing so is a violation of FCRA, and punishable by law. | |
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blackjeep
join:2001-07-12
Atlanta, GA
| Your credit score only goes down when there are major inquiries done, examples would include credit checks for purchasing a house, a car, filling out apps for credit cards, etc. Minor inquiries such as when a bank of Idaho or whereever Visa dept does an inquiry and then sends you an offer for a 'free' ($50 cash upfront) credit card, DO NOT hurt your score in any way, and your credit report will note that very clearly. | |
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AmeritecTech
Change we can believe in, 1922
Premium
join:2002-09-06
Houston, TX
| Re: There oughta be a law said by blackjeep :
Your credit score only goes down when there are major inquiries done, examples would include credit checks for purchasing a house, a car, filling out apps for credit cards, etc. Minor inquiries such as when a bank of Idaho or whereever Visa dept does an inquiry and then sends you an offer for a 'free' ($50 cash upfront) credit card, DO NOT hurt your score in any way, and your credit report will note that very clearly.
As a matter of fact, the second set of inquiries that you mentioned will not even show up on the report that someone pulls. You will see it if you pull your OWN report from the bureaus, but potential creditors DO NOT see it. | |
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bistro777
Donuts-Is There Anything They Can't Do?
Premium
join:2002-02-07
Englewood, CO
| You’d think the federal Fair Credit Reporting Act would protect you, right? Nope! When you “sign your life away” to Comcast, you’ve probably also given them the right to sell/market your personal information to “affiliates” – which, in the credit/marketing industry, has by definition historically included nearly anybody willing to pony-up to buy your personal info. (CitiGroup, for example has over 1,5000 affiliates.)
It gets worse. The law does not allow Credit Reporting Agencies like Equifax, Experian and TransUnion to sell information from credit reports for the purpose of direct marketing. But a loophole in the FCRA enables them to sell "directory information" from credit reports - "credit headers" - your name, address, telephone number, date of birth and Social Security number. The FCRA’s opt-out provision that applies to pre-approved offers of credit does not apply to credit headers. You are not able to opt-out of the sale of your credit header information by the CRAs. And Comcast, I believe, do the same with your info and its “affiliates.”
Here’s a recent letter from the Electronic Privacy Information Center to the Senate Banking Committee regarding this issue. One point it raises is “Researchers at Michigan State University recently studied over 1000 identity theft cases and found that victims in fifty percent of the cases specifically reported that the theft was committed by an employee of a company compiling personal information on individuals.” Makes ya want everyone to have your personal data, huh?
I can see it now - -
Lender: Your mortgage application is denied.
Comcast Customer: Huh? Why’s that?
Lender: It seems that you’ve had 175,000 credit checks run against you in the last 6 months?
Comcast Customer: But I haven’t applied for any new cards or loans!
Lender: Well your credit report shows you have 187 new car loans and 324 Visa cards running an average balance of $185,000 per month.
Comcast Customer: WHAT?!?
Lender: Too bad, pal, you’re SOL. But how’s your digital signal coming-in these days?
"Stand up wherever you are, go to the nearest window and yell as loud as you can, 'I'm mad as hell, and I'm not going to take it anymore.” - - Peter Finch in "Network" | |
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AmeritecTech
Change we can believe in, 1922
Premium
join:2002-09-06
Houston, TX
| Re: There oughta be a law - - said by bistro777 :
You’d think the federal Fair Credit Reporting Act would protect you, right? Nope! When you “sign your life away” to Comcast, you’ve probably also given them the right to sell/market your personal information to “affiliates” – which, in the credit/marketing industry, has by definition historically included nearly anybody willing to pony-up to buy your personal info. (CitiGroup, for example has over 1,5000 affiliates.)
It gets worse. The law does not allow Credit Reporting Agencies like Equifax, Experian and TransUnion to sell information from credit reports for the purpose of direct marketing. But a loophole in the FCRA enables them to sell "directory information" from credit reports - "credit headers" - your name, address, telephone number, date of birth and Social Security number. The FCRA’s opt-out provision that applies to pre-approved offers of credit does not apply to credit headers. You are not able to opt-out of the sale of your credit header information by the CRAs. And Comcast, I believe, do the same with your info and its “affiliates.”
Here’s a recent letter from the Electronic Privacy Information Center to the Senate Banking Committee regarding this issue. One point it raises is “Researchers at Michigan State University recently studied over 1000 identity theft cases and found that victims in fifty percent of the cases specifically reported that the theft was committed by an employee of a company compiling personal information on individuals.” Makes ya want everyone to have your personal data, huh?
I can see it now - -
Lender: Your mortgage application is denied.
Comcast Customer: Huh? Why’s that?
Lender: It seems that you’ve had 175,000 credit checks run against you in the last 6 months?
Comcast Customer: But I haven’t applied for any new cards or loans!
Lender: Well your credit report shows you have 187 new car loans and 324 Visa cards running an average balance of $185,000 per month.
Comcast Customer: WHAT?!?
Lender: Too bad, pal, you’re SOL. But how’s your digital signal coming-in these days?
"Stand up wherever you are, go to the nearest window and yell as loud as you can, 'I'm mad as hell, and I'm not going to take it anymore.” - - Peter Finch in "Network"
Again, it is a clear violation of FCRA for someone to pull your credit without your explicit written permission. | |
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bistro777
Donuts-Is There Anything They Can't Do?
Premium
join:2002-02-07
Englewood, CO
| Re: There oughta be a law - - From my original post - - - "But a loophole in the FCRA enables them to sell "directory information" from credit reports - "credit headers" - your name, address, telephone number, date of birth and Social Security number. The FCRA’s opt-out provision that applies to pre-approved offers of credit does not apply to credit headers. You are not able to opt-out of the sale of your credit header information by the CRAs." - - - And Comcast can do the same with that personal information about you.
Also - - - "Researchers at Michigan State University recently studied over 1000 identity theft cases and found that victims in fifty percent of the cases specifically reported that the theft was committed by an employee of a company compiling personal information on individuals." - - - If you're comfortable with your cable company sharing your personal info after reading something like that, well God bless and good luck."
Ever move and have to reestablish gas/electric/etc.? Guess what? Credit check. Cell phone? Same thing. Want any unscrupulous person to get his hands on your SSN? Keep clicking "no prob" to stuff like Comcast's ploy...
Cross-country skiing is practical only if you live in a small country. | |
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AmeritecTech
Change we can believe in, 1922
Premium
join:2002-09-06
Houston, TX
| Re: There oughta be a law - - said by bistro777 :
From my original post - - - "But a loophole in the FCRA enables them to sell "directory information" from credit reports - "credit headers" - your name, address, telephone number, date of birth and Social Security number. The FCRA’s opt-out provision that applies to pre-approved offers of credit does not apply to credit headers. You are not able to opt-out of the sale of your credit header information by the CRAs." - - - And Comcast can do the same with that personal information about you.
This is no longer correct. The FTC disallowed the use of credit headers, except under certain circumstances, which are:
(A) intends to use the information in connection with a credit transaction involving the consumer on whom the information is to be furnished and involving the extension of credit to, or review or collection of an account of, the consumer; or
(B) intends to use the information for employment purposes; or
(C) intends to use the information in connection with the
underwriting of insurance involving the consumer; or
(D) intends to use the information in connection with a determination of the consumer's eligibility for a license or other benefit granted by a governmental instrumentality required by law to consider an applicant's financial responsibility or status
»www.pimall.com/nais/nl/n.headersdie.html
One of the above is also the requirement to pull a full bureau report, so anyone who had one of the above reasons would more likely do that. | |
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bistro777
Donuts-Is There Anything They Can't Do?
Premium
join:2002-02-07
Englewood, CO
| Re: There oughta be a law - - Someone better tell the Electronic Privacy Information Center and the Senate Committee on Banking. From the June 24th EPIC letter to the Senators Shelby and Sarbanes - -
"In particular, financial institutions are allowed to share the personal information of their customers with third-parties and affiliates, placing the burden upon the customer to opt-out of such sharing. Even if the individual opts-out, the institution can nevertheless share an individual's personal information with affiliates. Given the large number of affiliates some holding companies have, the practice of affiliate sharing effectively neutralizes the privacy protections built-in to the FCRA."
And that takes us back to "opt-out" v. "opt-in" authorization and the ongoing abuse of the FCRA by "affiliate" companies. Frankly, in this age of identify theft and the substantial cost to those who are victims of it, I don't want my cable provider bandying-about my personal information nor do I want my banks/brokerage house to do so either. The EULA being discussed here is abuse of power/privilege by Comcast and should be recognized as just that.
I know I'm crazy, but it's kept me from going insane. - - Waylon Jennings | |
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AmeritecTech
Change we can believe in, 1922
Premium
join:2002-09-06
Houston, TX | Re: There oughta be a law - - Yes, the EPIC seems to be confused about credit headers. Someone should tell them. At any rate, anyone who doesn't want their credit information shared should simply not sign up for Comcast. | |
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drakkkar
join:2003-02-07
Houston, TX
| Minor checks do not give your full credit file, only a limited amount of information (it categorises you). Only you can see the list of companies that has requested that (thus they do not affect your credit).
Merchants who you have an account with can see slightly more. For example your Visa card may get a monthly report of your basic overall credit worthiness or major changes. Once again, only you see these, and they do not affect your score.
This clause is most likely used to pull the second type of report listed (thus giving them lists that they can sell and are more valuable than the first type which any company can get from the credit bureaus.).
It is, however possible that they will use this clause to justify pulling FULL credit reports. This WILL negatively impact your credit rating. It is, however, fairly unlikely that they will do this too frequently. I think it costs them something like $6 each time. The first 2 types of reports are very inexpensive when purchased in bulk (I think 5 cents or less). It is not likely that they will spend $6 a month pulling full credit reports on you for a $40 a month service (but the scary part is that it is possible).
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~Age and Treachery will always overcome Youth and Skill.~ | |
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phattieg
join:2001-04-29
Winter Park, FL
 ·Verizon Wireless B..
·Sprint Mobile Broa..
| PLEASE READ!!!
I have a couple of REALLY good question, then I will rest my case. QUESTION ONE!! Does ANYBODY have an actual packet capture of the "Transition Wizard" sending ANY information back to Comcast (with the possible exception to the e-mail address stored in Outlook Express, this may be needed by them only to refer to the new name you may have been assigned during the transition)??? No??? But why not? Because IT DOESN'T HAPPEN. You just agree to a general legal agreement that is required to be forced in your face in order for the software to legally be placed on your machine and be supported by Comcast. But wait... Think about it this way too, sometimes you get outsourced assistance with your internet, this being an affiliate, if they are assisting you with this product (the transition wizard) then that is an affiliate that would need access to the company records to verify they are actually talking to YOU. QUESTION 2!!! At WHAT POINT, does the software (TRANSITION WIZARD) ask YOU, JOHN Q. USER, for personal info like your account number, social security number, address, etc??? NEVER!!! I think you are all just a bunch of paranoid folks with nothing else to do other than be afraid the rich ol' cable company is going to screw you out of your credit report scores... And to add another thing to the subject, if you lease the modem, they have all your info all ready, and the only thing at this point you should be concerned about is what you actually SIGNED on the work order at the time of install, because it is a binding legal document WITH all your personal info on it, including your SS#... Your credit info is only pulled when you lease equipment from someone anyway, just like when you get a credit card, so whats the big deal about that??? Simply purchase your own modem and that solves that problem. Leave the subject alone, you are blowing smoke up peoples rear ends, and you really should stop.. | |
| apollo80
join:2002-01-31
Richmond, VA | Wonderful... I used the transition wizard. Teriffic. So, now what? | |
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phattieg
join:2001-04-29
Winter Park, FL
·Verizon Wireless B..
·Sprint Mobile Broa..
|  YOU ARE TOO PARANOID!!!
I have a couple of REALLY good question, then I will rest my case. QUESTION ONE!! Does ANYBODY have an actual packet capture of the "Transition Wizard" sending ANY information back to Comcast (with the possible exception to the e-mail address stored in Outlook Express, this may be needed by them only to refer to the new name you may have been assigned during the transition)??? No??? But why not? Because IT DOESN'T HAPPEN. You just agree to a general legal agreement that is required to be forced in your face in order for the software to legally be placed on your machine and be supported by Comcast. But wait... Think about it this way too, sometimes you get outsourced assistance with your internet, this being an affiliate, if they are assisting you with this product (the transition wizard) then that is an affiliate that would need access to the company records to verify they are actually talking to YOU. QUESTION 2!!! At WHAT POINT, does the software (TRANSITION WIZARD) ask YOU, JOHN Q. USER, for personal info like your account number, social security number, address, etc??? NEVER!!! I think you are all just a bunch of paranoid folks with nothing else to do other than be afraid the rich ol' cable company is going to screw you out of your credit report scores... And to add another thing to the subject, if you lease the modem, they have all your info all ready, and the only thing at this point you should be concerned about is what you actually SIGNED on the work order at the time of install, because it is a binding legal document WITH all your personal info on it, including your SS#... Your credit info is only pulled when you lease equipment from someone anyway, just like when you get a credit card, so whats the big deal about that??? Simply purchase your own modem and that solves that problem. Leave the subject alone, you are blowing smoke up peoples rear ends, and you really should stop.. | |
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JPuppy
Java Heathen
Premium
join:2002-11-24
Honesdale, PA
clubs:
| Eh Stuff like this is usually written by lawyers hired by the company. It's the lawyer's goal to protect their client and get them as much as possible. That doesn't mean it would all hold up in court. It's basically the same thing as EULAs in the software world.
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-In a bad mood since 1824 | |
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hbreg
Premium
join:2000-11-09
Feasterville Trevose, PA
| Re: Eh Exactly, just like if push came to shove my attorney would get all of this made irrelevant in a court to protect my interests. Most of these agreements aren't worth the paper they are printed on. Just legal bullsh*t lawyers do to make money and protect their client.
Unless of course the lawyers represent the RIAA then all disclaimers, etc, are worth Gold and the only laws that count it seems. | |
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GlobalMind
Domino Dude, POWER Systems Guy
Premium
join:2001-10-29
Hollywood, FL
| Also... I would bet they have modified the general TOS/AUP with all of this material also.
I doubt that NOT using the wizard will really help any. Things like this don't tend to just get put in one place.
I for one however, won't be using the wizard, have absolutely no reason to do so since my mail is hosted elsewhere on my own domain.
K.
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TheGlobalMind.com
"On a clear disk you can seek forever" | |
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hobgoblin
Sortof Agoblin
Premium
join:2001-11-25
Orchard Park, NY
clubs:
| Re: What the..! Coputer Elite Boasted
"I don't believe I used the wizard as well. No worries for me."
It appears that by simply having the service installed you have agreed to it anyway....Oh well 
»www.comcast.net/terms/subscriber.jsp
"In addition, we may modify this Agreement at any time in our sole discretion upon thirty (30) days prior notice to you. We will notify you of any such modifications as set forth in Section 10(b) above. You agree that any one of the foregoing will constitute sufficient notice of these changes. Your continued use of the Service following notice of these changes shall be deemed to be your acceptance of any the changes."
Section 10b states
"Notice: Comcast may deliver any required or desired notice to you by posting it on the Service's web site at www.comcast.net"
Hob
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"Consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds." - Ralph Waldo Emerson | |
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MrBradTX
join:2001-05-23
Carrollton, TX
·RoadRunner Cable
| need court ruling on legality of click-to-sign At some point, the courts will need to rule on the legality of "click-through consent" for things that normally require explicit written permission, like releasing credit information.
For Comcast to try and slip this into their click-through Terms Of Service agreement is unconscionable IMHO. | |
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J D McDorce
Premium
join:2001-12-29
Westland, MI
| Re: need court ruling on legality of click-to-sign As alluded to in other posts in this news topic, this goes beyond "click through consent," particularly based on the provisions that use of the service implies agreement and Comcast's ability to change the terms of service at any time by simply posting a new one on their site (without any other type of notification being necessary). Regardless if one used the transition wizard, anyone (legacy or ex-ATTBI) using the Comcast High Speed Internet service consents to the new TOS per the TOS.
While the entire deal has me scratching my head regarding whether or not modification of the terms of a service agreement without express consent of both parties sits with regard to "common law", this practice seems fairly widespread amongst Internet Service Providers.
There is also no clear definition of what "The Service" actually consists of contained within Comcast's Terms of Service... | |
| vic102482
Premium
join:2002-04-30
Upper Marlboro, MD
| WHERES THE DEAD HORSE PICTURE NOW!!!!! Heheheh;)
Seriously, I think we can all agree this is over stepping bounderies. SSNs are supposed to be given for verfication perposes only. You think comcast will be held liable if one of their "partners" is Joey Da Shark that wants to open credit card accounts for each and every comcrap suscriber?
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I tie a rope around my penis and jump from a tree, don't you wanna grow up to be just like me!!!! | |
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JakCrow
join:2001-12-06
Palo Alto, CA
| Re: WHERES THE DEAD HORSE PICTURE NOW!!!!! Actually, what's beating a dead horse is you with that picture every time you don't like a certain news story and what people are saying about it. If you're just so tired of reading the same things, then here's a tip: stop reading them, but somehow I suspect you're one of those people that like to read your own posts and think you're very witty. You're not. You're just annoying. Get over yourself. | |
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cjynx
Whatchu Talkin' Bout
join:2003-01-13
Pittsburgh, PA
| Dumb Question!!!! I used the wizard to see what it would do to my system. I checked off on the terms section and let it run. I never logged into anything and I never used my email address that AT&T gave me. The only thing that I noticed that changed was the heading of Internet Explorer to say something like: "by Comcast High Speed Internet". If I wasn't logged into anything on their website and never had settings for the AT&T account, how are they looking in on my credit? Are they using the IP address that I had at the time and the MAC address of the modem? then going through their system to match it up to my account? What's up wit' dat? | |
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MrBradTX
join:2001-05-23
Carrollton, TX
·RoadRunner Cable
| Re: Dumb Question!!!! When you signed up for service, you may have given them your Social Security Number. That, your name, and your consent (which they are inferring in their Subscriber Agreement from your use of their service) are all they need to do a credit report inquiry. | |
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cjynx
Whatchu Talkin' Bout
join:2003-01-13
Pittsburgh, PA | Re: Dumb Question!!!! Well, my credit's bad enough without these silly bastards looking in on it every other week or so. I'll have to call them on it. | |
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Bull-Snagger
@attbi.com | Hey. If ya don't like it LEAVE!!! Listen, BIG BIZnes runs da werld, so if ya don likit, ya can get off my damn planit, or sumphin....... | |
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hbreg
Premium
join:2000-11-09
Feasterville Trevose, PA
| Re: Hey. If ya don't like it LEAVE!!! said by Bull-Snagger:
Listen, BIG BIZnes runs da werld, so if ya don likit, ya can get off my damn planit, or sumphin.......
Wow, that really added something useful to the discussion. I guess we should all just leave your world and then you won't have to read what any of us say anymore.
Thank you for enlightening us. | |
| | apollo80
join:2002-01-31
Richmond, VA
| --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Listen, BIG BIZnes runs da werld, so if ya don likit, ya can get off my damn planit, or sumphin.......
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Wow...it's like the word jumble in the newspaper, but without the pictures. | |
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vampyre_tech
Meow
join:2002-09-06
Calhoun, GA
clubs: | said by Bull-Snagger:
Listen, BIG BIZnes runs da werld, so if ya don likit, ya can get off my damn planit, or sumphin.......
I put this phrase in Babblefish and it came back as "WTF???" | |
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JakCrow
join:2001-12-06
Palo Alto, CA
| Also interesting in comcast's TOS.... 6g: Theft of Service
You will not connect the Service or any Comcast Equipment to more computers, either on or outside of the Premises, than are reflected in your account with us. You acknowledge that any unauthorized receipt of the Service constitutes theft of service, which is a violation of federal law and can result in both civil and criminal penalties. In addition, if the violations are willful and for commercial advantage or private financial gain, the penalties may be increased.
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This item in Comcast's TOS is incorrect.
Federal CATV do not apply to cable internet services and there appears to be no official proposals to add internet services to be covered. There have been proposed legislation in a few states to add cable internet service to state level theft of service laws, but currently there appears to be nothing moving forward.
I have talked to my local cable franchise manager in the past about this, and it is her belief they cannot apply theft of service laws to internet services because they are unregulated, though she said she would be happy to work to make them regulated if the cable companies want to use CATV laws illegitimately.
The cable company can shut down someone's account, but they couldn't file federal charges. | |
| | moonpuppy
join:2000-08-21
Glen Burnie, MD
·Verizon Online DSL
| Re: Also interesting in comcast's TOS.... said by JakCrow :
6g: Theft of Service
You will not connect the Service or any Comcast Equipment to more computers, either on or outside of the Premises, than are reflected in your account with us. You acknowledge that any unauthorized receipt of the Service constitutes theft of service, which is a violation of federal law and can result in both civil and criminal penalties. In addition, if the violations are willful and for commercial advantage or private financial gain, the penalties may be increased.
Now this would be an interesting tangent. Say they started killing accounts with routers. Do you really think MS, Linksys, D-Link, SMC, and Cisco would stand by and watch them kill their business? MS alone paid a good sum of money to put their name on home routers and wireless equipment that I don't think they would approve of Comcast or any other ISP telling their customers that routers are illegal unless they are charge extra for the service.
As for the TOS/AUP's, it will end up in court one day and the legaleze will do nothing but hurt the credibility of the cable companies (and DSL providers too.) Plus, look at the "Do Not Call" list. It has had a tremendous response and people are still signing up. Think there won't be similar feel good legislation with SPAM email or with click through agreements? | |
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JakCrow
join:2001-12-06
Palo Alto, CA
| Re: Also interesting in comcast's TOS.... I don't think the hardware peddlers will really do anything. In fact, Linksys has a co-branded line of hardware with Comcast right now.
The biggest problem I have with a TOS like Comcast's is that it has clauses that aren't legally binding, like the theft of service, and the "we can look up your credit history and sell that information to the highest bidder" thing, and I also believe the lawsuit and arbitration terms are bogus, but Comcast won't remove them until they're challenged. Companies should be forced to "correct" their TOS when there are factual errors in it, but that's just IMO.
[text was edited by author 2003-07-03 09:37:04] | |
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redstepchild
Premium
join:2002-01-04
Birmingham, AL
|  THIS SHOULD BE LAW #1
I am thinking that is easy to understand and read..
Pretty much says the companies you do business with still have to follow the laws.
--
I'm a Cable girl.. In a Cable World.....RedStepChild@dslr.net | |
| | mjcrocket
Mjc
join:2000-12-02
Abingdon, MD
| Re: THIS SHOULD BE LAW #1 said by redstepchild :
I am protected by certain laws as a U.S. Citizen and "whatever" State resident. Using any services from any companies while in my state and country does not void any of my rights.
However, within the last two or three years just about every company you might do business with in the form of an on going contractual relationship has changed their agreements to reflect that you can not sue the company nor be a member of a class action against the company. They further require that you must submit to binding arbitration! Unfortunately, most states have not kept up with this trend and their laws do not prevent these changes from happening! In the absence of updated laws, companies can and do restrict your rights to take action against them. Look at any of your credit card agreements or cell phone agreements for example and you will find that your legal recourse against them has been severely limited. Usually someplace in these agreements is also a clause authorizing them to look at your credit reports as needed, once you have established an ongoing business relationship with the company. The only way to terminate this authorization is to terminate your relationship with the company. | |
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