 
AboutTime
@comcast.net
 from:
Cabal 
| About time Good call. All ISPs should be doing the same. | |
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 | BosstonesOwn
join:2002-12-15
Everett, MA
clubs:
 ·Comcast Formerly ..
| Re: About time Oh Taylor troll , how I have missed thee.
Let me count the ways , you my friend troll !!!
Troll away Taylor Troll , Troll away !!!!
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"It's always funny until someone gets hurt......and then it's absolutely friggin' hysterical!" | |
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DenialWontWork
@comcast.net | Re: Denial Won't Work The good news is all ISPs will be doing this soon. Things are going to keep getting rough for Pirates. Denial isn't going to change that. | |
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Chiyo
Save Me Konata-Chan
Premium
join:2003-02-20
Minneapolis, MN
clubs:
·Comcast
| Good luck with that.. I for one wouldn't sign up with them they don't need to be tracking me. Good luck with SSL and figuring out all that encrypted data.
Piracy has been spoken about so much what else is there to say? the UK is already going nuts with the video cameras and other stuff so why not bend to the entertainment industry?
My advice, encrypt your traffic and keep your radio volume low god forbid someone listen to your music!
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My Blog:
»abanzai.animeblogger.net/ | |
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| | Nintendo
join:2007-03-17
edit:
March 31st, @09:42AM
| Re: Good luck with that.. said by ke4pym :With the right hardware, it is trival to crack SSL traffic. Man in the middle attacks are pretty easy when you're the ISP. I think it will be interesting to see how many people VirginMedia ultimately kick off their network and if there is any impact to that division's bottom line. Modern encryption is not at all easy to crack. What you refer to as "Man in the middle attacks" requires a highly selective circumstance, which I do not think applies here | |
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Sterling
IP Support Tier III
Premium
join:2003-05-30
Pittsburgh, PA | Re: Good luck with that.. Took another 60 or so years but looks like fascism is finally taking off. | |
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| | | cornelius785
join:2006-10-26
Worcester, MA
| i agree, with the amount of packets that pass through the ISP's network and a cracking time much larger than real time, SSL of sufficient key size is still secure. from what i've found 40-bit keys for ssl isn't that secure, but nearly all keys now are 128-bit for ssl, so good luck cracking that. | |
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mmainprize
join:2001-12-06
Houghton Lake, MI | Re: Good luck with that.. So now the ISP are going to become hacker to find priates, ya right, give me a break. Is that not illegle also. | |
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| | | | | BosstonesOwn
join:2002-12-15
Everett, MA
clubs:
·Comcast Formerly ..
| Re: Good luck with that.. That works by being the go between and grabbing the ssl key then passing it on. Easily defeated by tunneling  . I should know , I do it daily.
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"It's always funny until someone gets hurt......and then it's absolutely friggin' hysterical!" | |
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| | | nasadude
join:2001-10-05
Rockville, MD
·Comcast
| Re: Good luck with that.. said by TK Junk Mail :... That will get all but the hardcore thieves to back off. thieves? I thought we were talking about infringement.
hard to have a proper discussion when one party uses the wrong terms. | |
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TK Junk Mail
Go ahead, make my day
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Margate City, NJ
clubs:
·Comcast
| Re: Good luck with that.. said by nasadude :said by TK Junk Mail :... That will get all but the hardcore thieves to back off. thieves? I thought we were talking about infringement. hard to have a proper discussion when one party uses the wrong terms. A rose by any name smells the same.
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My BLOG .. .. Internet News .. .. My Web Page | |
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dadkins
Land of Confusion
Premium,MVM
join:2003-09-26
Hercules, CA
·Comcast
| Re: Good luck with that.. said by TK Junk Mail :said by nasadude :said by TK Junk Mail :... That will get all but the hardcore thieves to back off. thieves? I thought we were talking about infringement. hard to have a proper discussion when one party uses the wrong terms. A rose by any name smells the same. Birds of a feather... got broadband?
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Think outside the Fox... Opera | |
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BabyBear
Keep wise ...with Night-Owl
join:2007-01-11
| Re: Good luck with that.. said by TK Junk Mail :A rose by any name smells the same. said by dadkins :Birds of a feather... got broadband? "There's an old saying in Tennessee — I know it's in Texas, probably in Tennessee — that says, fool me once, shame on — shame on you. Fool me — you can't get fooled again." —President George W. Bush, Nashville, Tenn., Sept. 17, 2002 | |
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| | | | | | nasadude
join:2001-10-05
Rockville, MD
·Comcast
| said by dadkins :Birds of a feather... got broadband? don't forget it takes one to know one and just do it! | |
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BabyBear
Keep wise ...with Night-Owl
join:2007-01-11
| said by TK Junk Mail : All you have to do is kick off a couple hundred and then publicize it like crazy. That will get all but the hardcore thieves to back off. Yeah that has worked for the RIAA and their racketeering(lawsuits).  | |
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mmainprize
join:2001-12-06
Houghton Lake, MI | I dont know about you but I and many other would not longer need high speed connection just to get e-mail and a little brosing the net.
This move could harm the internet as a whole. | |
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Piracyisnottheft
@aliant.net
thumbs down from:
TK Junk Mail
| Copyright infringement is not theft. Why can't you numskulls get it through your head. | |
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TechieZero
Tools Are Using Me
Premium
join:2002-01-25
Wesley Chapel, FL | Re: Good luck with that.. said by Piracyisnottheft :
Copyright infringement is not theft. Why can't you numskulls get it through your head.
OK...so what is it then? | |
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| | | | | ross
join:2000-08-16
 ·Digizip
| Re: Good luck with that.. said by TechieZero :said by Piracyisnottheft :
Copyright infringement is not theft. Why can't you numskulls get it through your head.
OK...so what is it then? From Dictionary.com:
# Breach or infraction, as of a law, right, or obligation; violation; transgression.
# An act of infringing.
# An act that disregards an agreement or a right.
# A crime less serious than a felony.
# A violation, as of a law, regulation, or agreement; a breach.
# An encroachment, as of a right or privilege. | |
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Piracyisnottheft
@aliant.net | Theft is when you steal a physical object belonging to another person while copyright infringement is when you copy IP without permission from the copyright holder. There is a huge difference between the two. | |
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TechieZero
Tools Are Using Me
Premium
join:2002-01-25
Wesley Chapel, FL
| Re: Good luck with that.. said by Piracyisnottheft :
Theft is when you steal a physical object belonging to another person while copyright infringement is when you copy IP without permission from the copyright holder. There is a huge difference between the two.
So in both cases, someone is getting something that was created or built by someone else and not paying for it. Correct? | |
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| | BosstonesOwn
join:2002-12-15
Everett, MA
clubs:
·Comcast Formerly ..
| Really ?
define trivial. We have Sun e20k's that I frequently use when there is low usage to try and attack ssl 128. It's not trivial. And those suckers are number crunching fiends.
Considering those boxes full loaded run easily over 4 million I would not say trivial.
Plus snooping ssl becomes a slippery slope. Actually more like a luge track. What happens if a hacker finds a way in and starts picking off bank transactions ? Or stored traffic is analyzed and a hacker finds a way in to get personal data.
You think they will get immunity ? I don't , banks don't play when it comes to big loses. TJX any one ?
Virgin Media will be raked over the coals and spit on for their pittance. I for one would love to see the people revolt and leave them floundering like AOL. Send a good solid message that the net is the next frontier and controlling a world wide frontier is not the business of the entertainment industry.
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"It's always funny until someone gets hurt......and then it's absolutely friggin' hysterical!" | |
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Edge1
Workin' ta Live
join:2006-03-01
·Verizon Online DSL
| Re: Good luck with that.. Thanks for that interesting post. I hadn't really thought about it much, but you make a great point about snooping encrypted traffic. Legitimate transactions...I guess the internet is actually used for stuff that contributes to economies  . Can't believe that one or two organizations can bitch whine and cry like this and get away with it, even getting ISPs like VM to bend over. | |
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Jason Levine
Premium
join:2001-07-13
Albany, NY
| How will they handle false positives? The BPI has teams of technicians to trace illegal music downloading to individual accounts. It will hand these account numbers over to Virgin Media, which will match them to names and addresses.
The model being pushed by the BPI is for a letter warning customers they are committing an offence, followed by suspension of internet access for a second infringement, and finally disconnection.
So what happens if they falsely identify traffic as pirated material when it isn't? It's not like the music industry has a perfect track record of identifying pirates.
I can see it now, Jim Pirate downloads a pirated song, but the BPI transposes some digits on the IP address. Joe User gets the warning notice. He figures a mistake was made, means to contact his ISP, but quickly forgets about it. Jim Pirate downloads another song and Joe User is blamed again. This time Joe User finds his connection suspended. He calls to complain but they won't believe him that he isn't a dirty, stinkin' pirate. Now Joe User has to live in fear that Jim Pirate will download again and get him (Joe User) kicked offline.
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-Jason Levine
Support a children's charity. Buy a calendar. Shooting For A Cause
Jason's Toolbox | PCQandA.com | |
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vpoko
Premium
join:2003-07-03
Jamaica Plain, MA | Re: How will they handle false positives? It's like the movie Brazil. | |
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| nasadude
join:2001-10-05
Rockville, MD | I'm guessing they don't care too much about false positives.
unless they start kicking so many customers it effects their bottom line. | |
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major marco
Res Firma Mitescere Nescit
Premium
join:2003-02-13
Mission Viejo, CA
clubs: | This Makes Me Laugh I can't wait to see what the official backpedaling language will be when this backfires into Virgin Media's official PR face. They'll have to contact Cary Sherman, king of backpedaling. | |
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TI POIL
join:2006-03-05
Toronto, ON | . Apparently %80 of internet traffic is pirated material, is that mean that Virgin will lose %80 of their subscribers??? | |
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BabyBear
Keep wise ...with Night-Owl
join:2007-01-11 | Re: . Hmm, that only leaves 20% for Porn & spam!  | |
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See 10 replies to this post |
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SteveLV702
Premium
join:2004-04-22
Henderson, NV | ISPs ISP's will rethink when they end up kicking off 90% of their users and no longer have any revenue. | |
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ARGONAUT
got ping?
join:2006-01-24
New Albany, IN | Here's the fix. Don't use Virgin Media for anything.  | |
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madrhino
join:2004-07-03 | Long Live King Hollywood!! As a lifelong American it's good to see our subsidiaries joining the program.
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Get Verizon FIOS,The Anti-DIOS | |
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in_other_news
@verizon.net | news in other news... virgin media stock plummets on news from lower than expected earnings when hordes of subscribers go to other carriers... apparently they lost subscribers whom they've discriminated against.. | |
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Moon1234
@tds.net
| man-in-the-middle Information I am not sure most people understand how SSL works and how man-in-the-middle attacks work.
SSL requires some information to be exchanged before an encrypted session is established. Your browser and the server you are connecting to negotiate encryption protocols, key hashes, etc. before actually starting an encrypted session.
Since the ISP is between you and the server you are connecting to they can record all of the negotiated information that is used before the encrypted session is enabled. Once this information is recorded they can fully decrypt and intercept all traffic that is sent over the encrypted link. When key changes happen they get the updated key as well since they are intercepting all traffic.
The only protection against this type of man-in-middle attack is to pre-distribute encryption keys and authentication information. This prevents the ISP (Or any other man-in-the-middle from being able to intercept the initial seeds of the encrypted link. Without this information the ISP cannot easily decrypt the encrypted session to inspect the contents for filtering/content/throttling/etc.
This is why you see banks distributing USB flash drives with password randomizers to their corporate customers. This is one way to prevent man-in-the-middle attacks. The USB flash drives that our accounting department are provided by the bank also have a time component to them. They must press a button on the USB key which displays an 8 digit alphanumeric combination that is valid for five minutes. They then insert the USB key which loads cryptographic software onto the computer. They then connect to the bank's website and are prompted for the 8 digit key. Since the bank distributed the USB key, the protocol negotiation setting up the cryptographic keys does not happen and initial keys are determined by using the time sensitive 8 digit key from the USB flash drive.
Since it is impractical to do this for Bittorrent and many other types of encrypted sessions over the public internet, the security of any encrypted session using industry standard protocols, regardless of cipher strength or complexity, is nowhere near assured. This has been known to security professionals for many, many years. It is also why many companies pre-distribute digital certificates, smart cards, etc. Most corporate firewalls configured by security professionals will be setup this way so that man-in-the-middle attacks are not possible.
The enigma machine that the Germans used during WWII worked in a similar way. It was never cracked until an actual machine was captured by the enemy. The Germans had code books that contained single use codes for each machine. Headquarters had copies for decryption purposes. This custom code changed the cipher each time the machine was used. This made it impossible for the allies to decrypt the communication without having physical access to a machine and possibly a code book.
The only protections you have are privacy laws which make third party attacks like this illegal without a warrant. These laws are only effective when you can PROVE the ISP is violating them. Since most bittorrent traffic is illegal content, the user cannot complain without admitting to the transfer of pirated material. Legitimate traffic that has been intercepted, decrypted and modified/read could expose the ISP to legal ramifications. The chances of someone actually prosecuting the ISP for this type of infraction are quite low and they know it.
I could foresee offshore companies setting up a business model around pre-distributing security keys. This would be very similar to the way digital certificates work, but instead of proving identity they would offer, for a fee, preconfigured security keys that would take out the man-in-the-middle attack. All parties would need to use this system for the network to be secure. You would really need to trust this third party to not divulge your private keys. This could be a lucrative market for companies in Antigua. Nothing would prevent media companies and ISPs from also joining this network. Group distribution of encrypted material would never be secure unless you could control who authenticates the clients allowed to join | |
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Virgin Media Gives Pirates The Boot
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