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Vonage Owes Verizon $120 Million
Appeal request refused...
Bloomberg reports that Vonage must pay Verizon $120 million after a U.S. appeals court
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refused to reconsider the case. The ruling certainly does little to help Vonage's mounting debt load.
quote:
Vonage settled the infringement suit on Oct. 25 after Verizon won both a jury verdict and an appeal in the case. The accord left open the amount to be paid until the appeals court decided whether to grant Vonage's request for reconsideration.
Vonage saw a third-quarter net loss of $162 million -- thanks in large part to the $133 million spent last quarter on legal costs related to their patent battles with Sprint, Verizon and AT&T.
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PhoenixDown
FIOS is Awesome
Premium Member
join:2003-06-08
Fresh Meadows, NY

PhoenixDown

Premium Member

Can Vonage float it or is this the death bell?

...
satellite68
join:2007-04-11
Louisville, KY

satellite68

Member

Re: Can Vonage float it or is this the death bell?

let's do the math:

1 million subscribers (my estimate, probably higher than that) x $25/month (on average, probably a little lower with all the plans they have) = $25,000,000/month.

i'm guessing their overhead ain't $25 mill a month.

dunno, hope they go far. love the service.
mikenolan7
Premium Member
join:2005-06-07
Torrance, CA

mikenolan7

Premium Member

Re: Can Vonage float it or is this the death bell?

According to Wikipedia:

"Until recently Vonage held the most subscribers at 2.4 million subscriber lines"

They "until recently" part had to do with Comcast passing them with 5 million, not any statement that the 2.4 million had dropped.

Hehe
@ssa.gov

Hehe

Anon

Poo

I hate all the sueing!

burgermeister
All Computers Are Junk
join:2000-10-23
Utica, MI

burgermeister

Member

Re: Poo

Yeah, it seems like such a waste of money, but, companies have to protect their intellectual property, I suppose.

anoooon
@comcast.net

anoooon

Anon

This is so wrong...

A company like this shouldnt have been sued so badly....

gatorkram
Need for Speed
Premium Member
join:2002-07-22
Winterville, NC

gatorkram

Premium Member

Ah HA!

So this is how Verizon can afford to roll out all these wonderful speeds over their FIOS network..

Cabal
Premium Member
join:2007-01-21

Cabal

Premium Member

Where are Vonage's defensive patents?

Everyone in the tech sector knows the patent system is broken (or at least has very significant flaws), but because everyone plays the game, that means you have to, too. Where are Vonage's defensive patents? I work in the VoIP sector, and while I'm sure we are violating someone's patents, we have plenty of our own that keep the big dogs off our backs. Was someone at Vonage planning, ever?

FFH5
Premium Member
join:2002-03-03
Tavistock NJ

FFH5

Premium Member

And the Shareholder suits haven't even started yet

Vonage, which first sold shares to the public for $17 each in May 2006, also faces suits from investors. They say the company's prospectus misrepresented or omitted information about its products and the experience of some managers.
The IPO was for $17/sh and the shares are selling for $2.13/sh now. Those suits and the banks wanting their money on the loans could sink Vonage by mid year 2008.
bngdup
join:2007-02-20
Old Bridge, NJ

bngdup

Member

Re: And the Shareholder suits haven't even started yet

Ahh yes the armchair accountant who keeps extending his "Vonage is Dead" prediction on each post.

I can make up arbitrary dates too!

Vonage's various legal and financial troubles could bring it down by March of 2009.....see its real easy

supergirl
join:2007-03-20
Pensacola, FL

supergirl to FFH5

Member

to FFH5
said by FFH5:
Vonage, which first sold shares to the public for $17 each in May 2006, also faces suits from investors. They say the company's prospectus misrepresented or omitted information about its products and the experience of some managers.
The IPO was for $17/sh and the shares are selling for $2.13/sh now. Those suits and the banks wanting their money on the loans could sink Vonage by mid year 2008.
If Vonage has only about $155 million in cash, how will they pay it and keep operations going at their ridiculous ad rate expenditures?

Firing Citron would be a good idea. Not sure if any manager with brains would want to run this loser.
dualsub2006
join:2007-07-18
Newport, KY

dualsub2006

Member

Re: And the Shareholder suits haven't even started yet

said by supergirl:

If Vonage has only about $155 million in cash, how will they pay it and keep operations going at their ridiculous ad rate expenditures?
$98 million of this is already set aside:

»pr.vonage.com/releasedet ··· D=271491

I don't recall all of the details, but the appeal or something was only allowed because they had set aside $66 million or something and then they were required to make quarterly escrow payments on top of that.

The other $22 mil or so will come out over time.

AlsknSnoBals
join:2007-05-17
Anchorage, AK

AlsknSnoBals

Member

It's kind of funny.....

It's kind of funny that nobody took notice of Vonage until they became successful. I would be willing to bet they never had a patent infringement until they started making money, which the telcos hate. It is very reminiscent of the old Tucker case when Ford and General Motors took him to court so they could put him out of business. Afterward, they cannibalized Tucker's design.

After Vonage, Bell started their own voip too. So did everybody else. In the meantime, after Vonage's death blow, voip will become just as expensive as land lines with minimal overhead for Bell. That means it will be pure profit.
paulme
join:2007-11-06
Kirkland, WA

paulme

Member

Re: It's kind of funny.....

said by AlsknSnoBals:

It's kind of funny that nobody took notice of Vonage until they became successful. I would be willing to bet they never had a patent infringement until they started making money, which the telcos hate.
Well... yes, why would you go to the trouble of suing someone who didn't have any money. Its the way that industry works. Those making money get sued (a lot).
Redbaron2
join:2004-06-14
Tacoma, WA

Redbaron2 to AlsknSnoBals

Member

to AlsknSnoBals
Tell me about it VerIZsuen has had a stick up its backside since Vonage took most of their subscribers. This is just VZ trying to re-coop their loss instead of being competitive in the marketplace. The Big 3 had it in for Tucker because he was making a safer car then they could for an afordable price. Safety Glass, Disc Brakes, and pop out windows to name a few of Tucker's innovative ideas. These made the car impressive, and of the entire run of cars; nearly all of them are drivable to this day (and are driven often). This isn't the only time the big 3 went after the little car maker. They went after one of their own designers with threats and ruined his company, life, and reputation. The DMC and Bricklin SV-1 both were put of business by shortsighted Car executives who wanted the big bucks. VZ, Sprint, AT&T, and others are looking to kill competition/diversity, and fair market practice just because they are losing money. Grow up and get a life. Stocks are risky live with it instead of suing. The pledge should state "The home of the sue happy and proud."
rradina
join:2000-08-08
Chesterfield, MO

rradina to AlsknSnoBals

Member

to AlsknSnoBals
According to the Verizon suit, they did not know what technology Vonage was using until they filed information for their public IPO. Only then was Verizon able to determine that they had patents covering the technology that Vonage was using.

Does anyone know if the work-arounds that Vonage claimed to have are in place and being used or will they continue to owe Verizon for each VOIP customer?

Robert
Premium Member
join:2001-08-25
Miami, FL

Robert

Premium Member

Take over..

Would it be possible for Verizon to take control of Vonage in lieu of the $120 million outstanding debt?
zed2608
Premium Member
join:2007-09-30
Cleveland, TN

1 edit

zed2608

Premium Member

Re: Take over..

not likely unless they wanted to buy vonage which i doubt

besides i think once you ad the at&t into it they will likely go into debt
rradina
join:2000-08-08
Chesterfield, MO

rradina

Member

Re: Take over..

Consider that AT&T and Verizon may own the same patents since they were at one time the same company.
zed2608
Premium Member
join:2007-09-30
Cleveland, TN

zed2608

Premium Member

Re: Take over..

consider that at&t broke up in into the baby bells in 1984 any patents that at&t had then are now in public domain so they no longer have same patents
rradina
join:2000-08-08
Chesterfield, MO

rradina

Member

Re: Take over..

Really? When a company is broken up, they lose all of their patents?
zed2608
Premium Member
join:2007-09-30
Cleveland, TN

1 edit

zed2608

Premium Member

Re: Take over..

no they dont but the patents that existed then would have expired by now

in the us patents only last 20 years at the most

»www.freepatentsonline.co ··· ire.html

dodgetech2
join:2002-01-01
Gouldsboro, PA

dodgetech2 to Robert

Member

to Robert
said by Robert:

Would it be possible for Verizon to take control of Vonage in lieu of the $120 million outstanding debt?
Lets not even joke about that.
rradina
join:2000-08-08
Chesterfield, MO

rradina

Member

Re: Take over..

I didn't even think of that. It has been that long. Wow. Time flies.

coax2112
@charter.com

coax2112 to dodgetech2

Anon

to dodgetech2
I LOVE VONAGE NEVER HAD A PROBLEM IN TWO YEARS WEBSITE HAS EVERYTHING YOU WOULD EVER NEED ABOUT YOUR YOUR SERVICE I WOULD RATHER GIVE THEM $5.00 MORE PER MONTH OR MORE THAN GIVE VERIZON ANYTHING

dowhattowho
@98.18.28.x

dowhattowho

Anon

BYE_BYE

If SPRINT ( AIRAVE ) actually works Then it's just a matter of time for pots - cable voip - and vonage. »www2.sprint.com/mr/news_ ··· id=18000
JohnA4
Premium Member
join:2003-09-16
Pittsburgh, PA

JohnA4

Premium Member

Wednesday


This was Wednesday news, and the Sprint, and full amount of the Verizon settlements were booked in the third quarter, so Vonage is surviving at this point.

GilbertMark
Premium Member
join:2001-05-02
Gilbert, AZ

GilbertMark

Premium Member

Yes

Vonage you better not let me down! I have proclaimed die Vonage die everytime this story pops up. I will consdier this my Christmas present if you disappear in the next few weeks.
ImBatman
join:2004-04-21
Lancaster, CA

ImBatman

Member

Re: Yes

said by GilbertMark:

Vonage you better not let me down! I have proclaimed die Vonage die everytime this story pops up. I will consdier this my Christmas present if you disappear in the next few weeks.
Dont count on it.
vonage seems to be run by relatively intelligent people. They were smart enough to put money aside, and still have a profit margin, after several lawsuits.
Their stock may be down; but i'm looking for it to return.
Anyone have several million I can borrow, to buy up tons of vonage stock?

batterup
I Can Not Tell A Lie.
Premium Member
join:2003-02-06
Netcong, NJ

batterup

Premium Member

Turn out the lights

the party is over.

Where are all of the legal eagles that said Verizon's suite was without merit?