  ColorBASIC8-bit FunPremium
join:2006-12-29
Corona, CA | Vonage sucks They really are the "internet phone company". Their marekting tactics are horrid and even their customer retention agents suck serious ass.
I was a customer and will NEVER go back and would NEVER recommend Vonage's crap service to anyone.
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Macintosh Users Group Serving the Inland Empire | |
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 |  N3OGHYo Soy Col. "Bat" GuanoPremium
join:2003-11-11
Philly burbs
kudos:1 | Re: Vonage sucks Dropped Vonage a long time ago, They sucked for me too.
But, I don't see the big deal here. Every computer made since 1978 has a DELETE key.
Use it....
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O&A back on XM! Found promo code to get free activation and 3 free months. PM me if interested! | |
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| Reviews:
 ·Armstrong Zoom ..
| These are email addresses that customers gave to vonage. It is not like some massive spam sent from vonage to random addresses, this is legit email, sent from Vonage in your name if you put YOUR friends email in.
I have had Vonage for years and none of my friends got any email... because I DID NOT PUT MY FRIENDS EMAIL ADDRESSES INTO A FORM!!!
My service has been great, no problems at all. Please tell us more oh wise one, why does Vonage "suck". | |
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| | Time4aNAPPremium
join:2007-04-09
Des Plaines, IL | Re: Vonage sucks said by keyboard5684:These are email addresses that customers gave to vonage. It is not like some massive spam sent from vonage to random addresses, this is legit email, sent from Vonage in your name if you put YOUR friends email in. I have had Vonage for years and none of my friends got any email... because I DID NOT PUT MY FRIENDS EMAIL ADDRESSES INTO A FORM!!! Do tell! LOL... Maybe my ISP has a list of my friends' e-mail addresses, as part of their thirty silver pieces for allowing some three-letter federal agency indiscriminately spy on America, but Vonage has no such power. What did these igjuts think that they were going to do with the e-mail addresses that they handed over, with permission to use them for anything?
My service has been great, no problems at all. Please tell us more oh wise one, why does Vonage "suck". You must not have been paying attention!  CB is the ILEC apologist in these parts. The wild and often contradictory tales of FUD can be entertaining...if you haven't heard them a thousand times before. Who knew that Guy Kawasaki would end up working for the phone company? But CB's tales come straight from the EvangeList playbook, that's for sure! | |
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| |  FiLPremium
join:2005-08-16
Silver Spring, MD | Re: Vonage sucks But then again, maybe y'all should stop throwing your friends email addy's around without informing THEM first...I agree, this is legit email that you opt'ed your FRIEND get. lol. Rules are rules. | |
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| | | shealysePremium
join:2004-04-15
Lexington, SC | Re: Vonage sucks I did inform them THREE YEARS AGO. If Vonage chooses to keep spamming them, that is their perogative. Just don't keep using my name and falsely advertising that I would receive some incentive if they signed up. | |
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| | | | Time4aNAPPremium
join:2007-04-09
Des Plaines, IL | Re: Vonage sucks said by shealyse:If Vonage chooses to keep spamming them... Hold on there, chief. Previously you said that your friend just (as in "only recently") got an e-mail from Vonage. Now you're claiming that Vonage has been spamming them constantly for three years? And you just happened o pick now to start complaining? No dice.
You might want to get your story straight first... | |
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| | Time4aNAPPremium
join:2007-04-09
Des Plaines, IL | said by shealyse:Obviously Vonage is getting desperate for customers. Well DUH!!! 
Haven't you heard? Vonage (and all other VoIP companies) are fighting for their very existence after Verizon sued Vonage over a couple of dubious patents that it holds. (Things like finding someone's phone number by searching for their e-mail address have been standard functions of PIM software since before Verizon ever existed. How is that patentable?) If Verizon prevails, the Verizon v. Vonage precedent will give all three of the reconstituted RBOCs the legal ability to keep VoIP businesses out of America. And then they can party like it's 1967.
Care to rent a Princess® phone for $15/mo.? | |
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| | Refer a Friend So let me get this straight. Vonage has a promo where they ask you to "refer a friend" to them and give them their email address. Then when Vonage actually sends them an email soliciting service and plugging your name (since you refered them in the first place) and this is foul play?
Sorry, but if you gave Vonage their email info in the first place, then I don't see how you can be upset when marketers do what marketers do.
I say no foul here. Well, except for the punk friends who give out your email address in the first place. | |
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|  knightmbEverybody Lies
join:2003-12-01
Franklin, TN | Re: Refer a Friend
Contact the Spam Department |
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| |  HealbotPremium
join:2003-07-16
Vancouver, WA | Re: Refer a Friend Contact the Spam Police (@Vonage.com) ASAP | |
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| | Time4aNAPPremium
join:2007-04-09
Des Plaines, IL | said by knightmb:Also, did the message really come from Vonage? I've seen plenty of spam that has Vonage ads in it, but is actually hijacked from other companies to turn a profit in sales by modifying the "referral" link to use their person/company instead. Good point. I was just browsing through my spam folder, and I noticed that "my bank" contacts me quite a bit, but not using their own mail servers. *cough* *cough* Same thing with several banks that I don't have any accounts with! | |
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| Reviews:
 ·Verizon FiOS
·ProLog
| said by CycloneGT:So let me get this straight. Vonage has a promo where they ask you to "refer a friend" to them and give them their email address. Then when Vonage actually sends them an email soliciting service and plugging your name (since you refered them in the first place) and this is foul play? Sorry, but if you gave Vonage their email info in the first place, then I don't see how you can be upset when marketers do what marketers do. I say no foul here. Well, except for the punk friends who give out your email address in the first place. Exactly....These emails were given to them by customers....they didnt "harvest" them...
Andy gives out his friends emails in an effort to get a few months free for himself, and then complains when Vonage uses those emails...what an idiot.
What outcome did he expect? | |
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|  Romney2012Defeat Obama 2012-Chg we can believe inPremium
join:2002-03-03
USA
kudos:4 | said by CycloneGT:So let me get this straight. Vonage has a promo where they ask you to "refer a friend" to them and give them their email address. Then when Vonage actually sends them an email soliciting service and plugging your name (since you refered them in the first place) and this is foul play? Sorry, but if you gave Vonage their email info in the first place, then I don't see how you can be upset when marketers do what marketers do. I say no foul here. Well, except for the punk friends who give out your email address in the first place. I agree. The people at fault are those who gave Vonage their friends email addresses. Some Friend!! 
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Internet News
My BLOG
My Web Page | |
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| Reviews:
·AT&T U-Verse
| but that was when i was a customer since i am not a customer anymore does vonage still have the right to send out emails using my address.
myself and another friend switched to another provider at the same time and i got spam from vonage saying this guy wants me to join vonage. the guy isnt even a customer anymore. | |
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| | Time4aNAPPremium
join:2007-04-09
Des Plaines, IL | Re: Refer a Friend said by new2sbcdsl:but that was when i was a customer since i am not a customer anymore does vonage still have the right to send out emails using my address.(?) If you have to ask here, you must not have bothered to read the terms of the agreement. Now that all it takes is a couple of clicks to make "the fine print" as large as you want it to be, you really have no excuses for failing to read a contract before you enter into it. | |
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|  wifi4milezBig Russ, 1918 to 2008. Rest in Peace
join:2004-08-07
New York, NY | said by CycloneGT:So let me get this straight. Vonage has a promo where they ask you to "refer a friend" to them and give them their email address. Then when Vonage actually sends them an email soliciting service and plugging your name (since you refered them in the first place) and this is foul play? Sorry, but if you gave Vonage their email info in the first place, then I don't see how you can be upset when marketers do what marketers do. I say no foul here. Well, except for the punk friends who give out your email address in the first place. I completely agree. I cant imagine why anyone would sign up a friend to (clearly) receive SPAM from the marketing department of any company. Furthermore, anyone who did/does such a thing and DOESNT realize/expect said friend to get SPAM is an idiot. The people complaining here should quit their whining and put on their thinking caps next time. Better yet, just dont give out other people's email addresses! DUH!!!!! 
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я люблю Денди! | |
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 NYR 56Premium
join:2000-12-05
Smithtown, NY | Andy Sernovitz is an Idiot What did he expect when he gave Vonage all his friends email addresses for the refer-a-friend program? Seems like he wanted the reward for himself but not for Vonage to get anything out of it. | |
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| BuzzDar
join:2006-01-28
West Frankfort, IL Reviews:
·Mediacom
 ·Frontier Communi..
| Re: Andy Sernovitz is an Idiot said by NYR 56:What did he expect when he gave Vonage all his friends email addresses for the refer-a-friend program? Seems like he wanted the reward for himself but not for Vonage to get anything out of it. That is what i am thinking.... Dont give out your email address for a promotion and expect it not to be used for anything. | |
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|  morboComplete Your Transaction
join:2002-01-22
00000 | worth repeating: Andy Sernovitz is an Idiot | |
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| |  nipseyrusselNipsey Russell, yo
join:2002-02-22
Philadelphia, PA | Re: Andy Sernovitz is an Idiot said by morbo:worth repeating: Andy Sernovitz is an Idiot yes, but what gets lost in all the hubub is that Daniel Terdiman is also an idiot | |
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| | | Re: Desperate... How did they cross the line?? That's like complaining about receiving a catalog in the mail when you signed up for it in the first place. | |
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| |  Mactronel Camino RealPremium
join:2001-12-16
CM94sv | Re: Desperate... said by supernac:How did they cross the line?? "The e-mail addresses were plugged in (sometimes years ago) as part of Vonage's refer-a-friend program."
This stuff comes back to haunt you friends .
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If only the Verizon CSRs worked this well. | |
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| | | FiLPremium
join:2005-08-16
Silver Spring, MD | Re: Desperate... Why not ask your friend if its ok to blindly give out his/her addy? Bolding "sometimes years ago" is fine and dandy, but I'm sure that idiot didn't bother reading the rules. Hes up in arms without justification; he "GAVE" a company a friends addy without knowing what the hell that meant...
That to me = Idiot... | |
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 hobgoblinSortof AgoblinPremium
join:2001-11-25
Orchard Park, NY
kudos:4 | Some... will complain about anything.
Oh well
Hob | |
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| ColorBASIC8-bit FunPremium
join:2006-12-29
Corona, CA | Re: Some... As well they should. | |
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| | | Yup, aint that the truth.
I don't know about you, but my in box has a delete button and it's not hard to push. 
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"I've learned that depression is merely anger without enthusiasm." | |
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 exocet_cmYou delete it, I'll find itPremium
join:2003-03-23
New Orleans, LA
kudos:2 | Is Vonage in error? quote:
Is Vonage in error?
Yeah, they suck. | |
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 JulioBachatero y Que?Premium
join:2003-03-19
Brooklyn, NY
kudos:1 | User is in error those users are stupid. it's normal refferal stuff. dont see how it's any different then with any other refferal. | |
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 KarrideSlower Traffic Keep RightPremium
join:2000-04-17
Germantown, TN
1 edit | I wish to complain! I went in a store and put some stuff in a basket that I wanted and they asked me for my credit card information before I left, so I gave it to them. Then this month THEY CHARGED MY CREDIT CARD!!! WTF!!!! | |
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morboComplete Your Transaction
join:2002-01-22
00000 | this douchebag is deleting unflattering posts
dear Andy, stop deleting unfavorable posts to your anti-vonage blog. it makes you look like even more of a tool that your post does. | |
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| | Stupid... I mean to submit an email in any form is to assume it might get spamed... to submit an email on a form titled "refer a friend" is to guarantee it will get spamed and that your name might be used in the spam. This should have been no surprise to Andy or anyone else. | |
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mikesco
join:2006-02-17
South Hadley, MA | poor etiquette If a company is has a refer a friend promotion and you put in a friends e-mail address, I would agree that the person is giving permission for 1 e-mail to be sent immediately with the referrers name attached. For them to use the information multiple times at a later date, while not illegal seems to me at least poor etiquette. | |
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| JulioBachatero y Que?Premium
join:2003-03-19
Brooklyn, NY
kudos:1 | Re: poor etiquette how so? does it indicate that only 1 email will be sent? | |
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|  BuriedCaesarIt's Not Polite To Stare.
join:2004-03-27
Richardson, TX | Poor etiquette? Right. Gimme a break. The user agreed to the terms when they submitted the information - they have no base to complain about it - even years later.
Does the oft-used provision in the usual small print of any opt-in program these days that says in some form "the terms of this agreement may be changed at any time" ring a bell here? You can bet it's there in Vonage's small print.
Unlike Charlie at the Chocolate factory, you can't just put this Everlasting Gobstopper back on the desk and walk away.
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That was preposterous! Utter Nonsense! Totally unsupportable drivel! You can't be serious!....Um, what did you say? | |
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| | mikesco
join:2006-02-17
South Hadley, MA
1 edit | Re: poor etiquette Etiquette deals with with social expectations and norms as well as the concept of being polite and gracious, not with fine print that is seldom read. This I believe is a tactic that is a mistake for a reputable company. After all the person receiving the spam did not agree to anything and I have not even seen this so called fine print that the referrer originally agreed to. All I know is if a company asks me for a referral and I offer one believing a friend may benefit from the product or service, I don't expect them to be harassed for years. What Vonage is doing is bad form. | |
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| | | BuriedCaesarIt's Not Polite To Stare.
join:2004-03-27
Richardson, TX | Re: poor etiquette Bad form, etiquette, whatever you want to call it - doesn't really matter. The user still agreed to it. Caveat emptor...
However, the ultimate determination as to whether this practice will continue or not will be in direct proportion to the bottom line results this email campaign generates. If it makes 'em money, look out!
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That was preposterous! Utter Nonsense! Totally unsupportable drivel! You can't be serious!....Um, what did you say? | |
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| | Abandoing Vonage - What's Better Out There?? I'm considering dropping Vonage, they really do nothing for me. I'm hoping for suggestions for alternate solutions that can be for a small business, virtual pbx sort of stuff. I'd like to port my number over to someone who can basically give me a complete phone system for 4-10 users.
Thanks!!! | |
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| Time4aNAPPremium
join:2007-04-09
Des Plaines, IL | Re: Abandoing Vonage - What's Better Out There?? I'll take that to mean that you probably aren't able or inclined to roll your own Asterisk PBX. In that case, ask your ISP. Mine provides small-business VoIP service. A client of mine has more like 8-20 users. Their ISP has them on VoIP, sharing a T-1 line for Internet service. Their system uses dedicated PBX hardware (I don't know if the phones are IP or not).
You could do without the local phone switch, using a managed network switch to give IP phones priority over Internet traffic on your LAN. The ISP should do the same thing with its routers. I recommend not using any VoIP appliances that can be found on major retailers' shelves, and would be wary of anything that your ISP wants to drop ship to you. | |
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 BiteyPremium
join:2002-06-14 | never refer a friend... It's much more considerate to reefer a friend | |
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| | | Re: never refer a friend... said by Bitey:It's much more considerate to reefer a friend But it's truly compassionate to reefer a fiend.
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Get Verizon FIOS,The Anti-DIOS | |
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| | FiLPremium
join:2005-08-16
Silver Spring, MD | Re: never refer a friend... reefer yer bong back to me... | |
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| | | | | Re: never refer a friend... LOL - Pass it here too, I am tired of working today... | |
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 TamaraBQuestion The Current ParadigmPremium
join:2000-11-08
Da Bronx
·Optimum Online
 ·Clearwire Wireless
| This is UCE == spamBy definition this is spam. Unsolicited Commercial Email. The recipient of the advert never asked for it.
Only I can sign up for commercial email, "friends" can opt-in themselves, but no one else.
Vonnage is a mass spammer, clearly in violation of can-spam.
Bob
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Motor Vessel - Tamara B.
43' Long-Range Trawler
Cape Elizebeth ME.
See her Here. | |
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| | | Re: This is UCE == spam Not really. When you give out your friend's email address, you're the one suppose to ask your friend's permission for it. If can-spam act applies, you're the one responsible for it. | |
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| | TamaraBQuestion The Current ParadigmPremium
join:2000-11-08
Da Bronx Reviews:
·Optimum Online
·Clearwire Wireless
| Re: This is UCE == spam According to your perspective, if I sign you up to every mailing list and opt-in form on the internet, then the spam you receive isn't spam?
The CAN-SPAM Act allows commercial "email that facilitates an agreed-upon transaction or updates a customer in an existing business relationship"
Vonnage got no direct "agreed-upon" permission from the recipients, and they were not "in an existing business relationship" with the recipients. Smells like spam to me!
Bob
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Motor Vessel - Tamara B.
43' Long-Range Trawler
Cape Elizebeth ME.
See her Here. | |
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| | |  ptrowskiGot Helix?Premium
join:2005-03-14
Putnam, CT
kudos:4
 ·VOIPo
| Re: This is UCE == spam said by TamaraB:According to your perspective, if I sign you up to every mailing list and opt-in form on the internet, then the spam you receive isn't spam? The CAN-SPAM Act allows commercial "email that facilitates an agreed-upon transaction or updates a customer in an existing business relationship"Vonnage got no direct "agreed-upon" permission from the recipients, and they were not "in an existing business relationship" with the recipients. Smells like spam to me! Bob You should include the entire paragraph, not the part that suits your needs.
"The law, which became effective January 1, 2004, covers email whose primary purpose is advertising or promoting a commercial product or service, including content on a Web site. A "transactional or relationship message" – email that facilitates an agreed-upon transaction or updates a customer in an existing business relationship – may not contain false or misleading routing information, but otherwise is exempt from most provisions of the CAN-SPAM Act."
Here is what the law requires, and they seem to follow the process.
What the Law Requires
Here's a rundown of the law's main provisions:
It bans false or misleading header information. Your email's "From," "To," and routing information – including the originating domain name and email address – must be accurate and identify the person who initiated the email.
It prohibits deceptive subject lines. The subject line cannot mislead the recipient about the contents or subject matter of the message.
It requires that your email give recipients an opt-out method. You must provide a return email address or another Internet-based response mechanism that allows a recipient to ask you not to send future email messages to that email address, and you must honor the requests. You may create a "menu" of choices to allow a recipient to opt out of certain types of messages, but you must include the option to end any commercial messages from the sender.
Any opt-out mechanism you offer must be able to process opt-out requests for at least 30 days after you send your commercial email. When you receive an opt-out request, the law gives you 10 business days to stop sending email to the requestor's email address. You cannot help another entity send email to that address, or have another entity send email on your behalf to that address. Finally, it's illegal for you to sell or transfer the email addresses of people who choose not to receive your email, even in the form of a mailing list, unless you transfer the addresses so another entity can comply with the law.
It requires that commercial email be identified as an advertisement and include the sender's valid physical postal address. Your message must contain clear and conspicuous notice that the message is an advertisement or solicitation and that the recipient can opt out of receiving more commercial email from you. It also must include your valid physical postal address. "
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"A religious war is like children fighting over who has the strongest imaginary friend."
Have you been touched by his noodly appendage? »www.venganza.org | |
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| | | |  pogPremium
join:2004-06-03
Kihei, HI
·Hawaiian Telcom
| Re: This is UCE == spam CAN-SPAM explains what the law views as illegal spamming. Spam, however, is spam... and all unsolicited bulk/commercial email is spam... all of it.
If the recipient didn't ask for it, it's unsolicited. It doesn't matter if a friend "referred" them or not. All that does is make the friend less of a friend... it doesn't let the sender off the hook at all.
Most places recognize this and use a double opt-in system... anyone can sign up but only the recipient can confirm the 2nd opt-in.
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My Site | |
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| | | | | Did you even read what I said? I said, you need get my permission first before sign me up for anything. If you did what you just said without my permission, you're engaging a criminal activity. | |
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 viperpa33sWhy Me?Premium
join:2002-12-20
Bradenton, FL | Freebies come with a price Something like this I would usually ask a friend's permission before I would put there name or email address down. It would be the same thing when you fill out a loan application and have to add credit references. Some people don't think of asking permission or assume there friends will want it, they just want the freebies.
Well the freebies come with a price. The price these days with a lot of companies is spam. Really, just because the Can The Spam Act says a company is allowed to send spam because of a prior business relationship don't mean it's morally right to do so. | |
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See 7 replies to this post |
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 levI think there is a target on my backPremium,Ex-mod 2002-08
join:2001-05-30
Chicago, IL
kudos:2
·AT&T Midwest
| I spoke to friends first years back I asked friends if they wanted me to do it. At the time, I'm pretty sure that the wording said they would only receive a a couple of mailings over a very short period of time.
Yeah, it's sleazy, but I do feel a little sorry over the beating they got from Verizon's lawsuit and the judge who was in Verizon's pocket. I hope it's not a company doing anything to stay afloat at this point. | |
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| | hmm They'll be dead by December anyway. No more of those stupid woo hoo hoo commercials. | |
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 batterupI Can Not Tell A Lie.Premium
join:2003-02-06
Netcong, NJ | Turn out the lights the party is over. The finale days in the Fuhrerbunker. | |
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gatzdon
join:2002-10-25
Lake Zurich, IL Reviews:
·Covad Communicat..
·Covad Communicat..
| False advertising By referring individuals you agree to the following conditions: To qualify, both referrer and referee must be customers in good standing for 90 days. If either cancels before 90 days, this will result in the loss of and /or chargeback of associated credits. For Vonage to send such e-mails on closed accounts is false advertising as the so-called referrer will not be customer in good standing. It may also mean that the referee will not received the advertised bonus due to the technicality.
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$100 placed at 7 percent interest compounded quarterlyfor 200 years will increase to more than $100,000,000 --by which time it will be worth nothing.- Lazarus Long | |
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Desperate...
I NEVER "Refer Friends" anywhere or time just because of this potential problem. 
