Vonage Settles Over Annoying Cancellation Tactics As in: you quite often couldn't actually cancel... Tipped by viperlmw 
Like the AOL of old, Vonage has cultivated quite a reputation as a company that often makes it incredibly difficult to actually cancel your service. The check for this behavior has finally come due, and it's likely considerably less than they made from the practice. According to an announcement posted to the website of Idaho Attorney General Lawrence Wasden, Vonage has agreed to pay $3 million in penalties to 32 states in order to settle an investigation into some of its business practices. The settlement also cites Vonage for failing to note their VoIP service needed broadband and then socking customers with cancellation fees, and for offers of "free" services that wound up charging a litany of activation and other fees.
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 | | Been there, done that I signed up with a promo offer my company had with Vonage. After I signed up, I was told the offer didn't exist. It took 5 minutes to completely sign up, but 95 minutes to cancel and I still got billed.... | |
|  | | | Re: Been there, done that I have a very long cancellation story with Vonage. It took over two years, about $500 in their fees charged to my credit card and a $39.00 final disconnect fee after a whole morning on the phone and then the lady said she was really doing me a favor. I was never able to use the service during the 2 year period, due to satellite latency. They kept saying they would cancel and kept charging my credit card. It was horrible. I now have an excellent wireless for @25 a month and phone service for about $9 a month with all the bells and lights. Vonage business practices BOO! | |
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| | Just Call the Bank If Vonage tried to pull this and wouldn't let you cancel your account, why not just call up your bank that your credit/debit card is issued through and tell them to no longer accept charges from Vonage? That's what I would do... Vonage wouldn't get their money so they'd turn your service off eventually anyway. | |
| | mobbo
join:2005-04-13
Denton, TX | Re: Just Call the Bank I tried doing that but my bank said that wasn't possible. I would have to cancel the card they were billing and get a new one. I know that sounds stupid... I mean how easy is it to just NOT allow someone to take your money, but I've experienced that before with 3 different banks (USAA, Bank of America, and Wells Fargo) when similar things occurred. It's gotta be some sort of regulation that keeps banks from doing it... so consumers can't just buy things and not pay by just blocking payments. Could be wrong. | |
| | | | | Re: Just Call the Bank I think banks are reluctant to do it but I am sure from a technical standpoint that it is possible. You can go down and pay $25 or whatever it is now to put a stop payment on a check. I don't see how this is really any different. As for laws and regulations, there are plenty of consumer protection laws that don't allow companies to continue charging you for a service or product you no longer use or want. If that wasn't the case, what would stop me from creating my new widget company and billing everybody in the country for it? | |
| | | fiberguyMy views are my own.Premium
join:2005-05-20
kudos:3 | said by mobbo:I tried doing that but my bank said that wasn't possible. I would have to cancel the card they were billing and get a new one. I know that sounds stupid... I mean how easy is it to just NOT allow someone to take your money, but I've experienced that before with 3 different banks (USAA, Bank of America, and Wells Fargo) when similar things occurred. It's gotta be some sort of regulation that keeps banks from doing it... so consumers can't just buy things and not pay by just blocking payments. Could be wrong. Regulation E requirements are what drive the banks to act in a certain way when handling what is considered "fraud" issues...
When you may a purchase on card, you are willingly giving your card number to someone and therefore you are authorizing the purchase on the card. Regulation E deals with unauthorized transactions. Technically, you're not contesting an unauthorized transaction, rather, you are disputing delivery of service.
Most banks, all that I'm aware of and dealt with, treat these claims of disputes under Regulation E. In order to deal with a fraud issue, they are to assume the card was compromised or stolen. Because they are liable for anything over $50 of the transaction, and most banks will go after all of it for you anyway including deposit account based check cards, they cancel your current credit card.
Unlike a check, there is no way to simply stop ONE transaction from happening again.. all the merchant account/clearing house looks at, really, is if the card is valid, the merchant is valid, and if all the security features of your card (that they check) match.. house number, zip code, etc. So long as that happens, they will approve the transaction pending your availability of funds.
The banks can't place a "stop payment" on a credit/debit transaction the same as a check so they make you cancel the card and reissue one.
When you do dispute a charge, you're also required to sign an affidavit stating the facts of the reason why you want to contest the charges - they want to know the reason, and if it's a matter of stolen cards, you have to sign that you actually didn't make the charge yourself.. remember, fraud works both ways.. the consumer can be committing fraud as well. (A side note, they still investigate and ask EVERY merchant for an answer and the merchant will usually ALWAYS get a charge-back fee even if they are in the right)
For your protection and the banks, the cards are canceled to avoid further liability, you get a new one in anywhere from a day to 10 and life goes on.
The biggest pain in the ass is updating anyone that had that card number for automatic payments..
There's a little explanation for ya... | |
| | | | | | Re: Just Call the Bank Thanks for that great post! That's a super explanation for those of us techno weenies that aren't finance experts. | |
| | | | | | If you ask for Regulation E form, get the person's name, date, and time you asked if they don't know what it is. After 30 days, you bank gets nailed for failing to give you a Reg E Form and has to credit the charges. | |
| | | | | fiberguyMy views are my own.Premium
join:2005-05-20
kudos:3 | Re: Just Call the Bank said by cameronsfx:If you ask for Regulation E form, get the person's name, date, and time you asked if they don't know what it is. After 30 days, you bank gets nailed for failing to give you a Reg E Form and has to credit the charges. You don't need to ask for a REG E form.. you just need to report the charge.. I would find it 100% hard to believe that any call center rep or customer service agent doens't know how to handle a contested or "fraudulent" charge on a customer's account.
But, simply getting a name, date, etc. isn't enough proof to save your behind on a 30 day nailing. What all the banks or credit card companies I've ever used have done is they start the process on the phone which puts it in the system,... the paperwork just follows for your signature... or in the case of most banks, you simply go in to a branch in person, sign the paper and the two will meet up.
Banks are usually not the problem.. the merchants are  .. the banks typically always get their money back based on their risk management practices. | |
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| | | | What bank do you have? o.O With BoA if i don't want a purchase going through all i have to do is put the wrong PIN in at an atm 3x & the number used by company x to bill me is locked out. Also, they will freeze the acct if you ask them to for 24 or 48 hours. Blocking specific transactions isn't legal, you could end up doing it all the time & end up stealing products/services.
- A
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LETS GO METS! | |
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| | | said by matrix3D:If Vonage tried to pull this and wouldn't let you cancel your account, why not just call up your bank that your credit/debit card is issued through and tell them to no longer accept charges from Vonage? That's what I would do... Vonage wouldn't get their money so they'd turn your service off eventually anyway. while may work once they send it to collections your in deeper water and now your Credit is Jacked up.... | |
| | | | | Re: Just Call the Bank And that would be when you contact the credit reporting agencies to dispute it and notify them that you repeatedly called them to cancel it and they continued to bill you anyway. I would also follow it up with a letter to your State Attorney General and a copy going to the Better Business Bureau. You could also use this as a threat when attempting to cancel -- most businesses don't want to have to deal with an AG or the BBB and this usually forces their hand. | |
| | | | nitzanPremium,VIP
join:2008-02-27
kudos:2 | Re: Just Call the Bank said by matrix3D:And that would be when you contact the credit reporting agencies to dispute it and notify them that you repeatedly called them to cancel it and they continued to bill you anyway. Valid advice- but it's an incredible pain in the behind to actually do...
most businesses don't want to have to deal with an AG or the BBB and this usually forces their hand.
You're thinking in terms of a business that actually cares. Vonage doesn't give a damn about it's customers, and if you think an outsourced customer support agent in the Philippines making $3 an hour is going to care about you threatening them with the AG and BBB you're very wrong unfortunately.
What can you do? just don't get Vonage to begin with... | |
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| | | | | Reviews:
 ·Comcast
 ·AT&T Southeast
| Re: Vonage used standard practice for the new business model! said by r81984:I use Magic Jack Voip just fine, but you can search reviews on this site of people saying how much it sucks when in reality the reason Magic Jack sucks for them has to do with their home setup, spyware and viruses on their computer, and their internet connection. I just do not think it is fair to say a VOIP service sucks for reasons not in the VOIP company's control. I have a friend who has MJ and it sucks... and it has nothing to do with her computer, her network, her connection or viruses. It's great if the voice stream is actually setup but it only sets up in about 1 out of 3 calls. The calls are setup without an issue, just voice stream doesn't get setup that often. | |
| | | | | | | | | Reviews:
·Comcast
·AT&T Southeast
| Re: Vonage used standard practice for the new business model! said by r81984:I doubt it. I have used Magic Jack in hotels and in Canada. Magic Jack connects every time and no one ever has a problem calling me. That's good it works for you... that's good. But after troubleshooting (and in fact moved it to my location with a different ISP) leading to the same result all the time (call setup but voice stream not setup) then it's certainly MJ. Just because it's 100% perfect for you don't discount the folks it has not worked for. | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | Reviews:
·Comcast
·AT&T Southeast
| Re: Vonage used standard practice for the new business model! Same computer or router: No... 2 different computer setups, one Comcast, one Bellsouth. Two different Windows operating systems. Comcast has whatever they sent for service setup, Windows is hanging my Netopia... various port allowing/forwarding done, still same issue. Doubt both Comcast and Bellsouth just happen to be blocking dynamic ports in the exact same manner.
MJ has proper handset setting.
Some are setup properly and some work, some don't work for everyone... some don't work terminating calls to certain areas, some do. It's not cut and dry. Sure there are user errors in some cases but VOIP is not 100% perfect nor is every company out there, VOIP companies can dick things up. But hey, if anyone has any issue with VOIP it must be they are stupid customer.... of course I suppose I could find the threads on here where a VOIP provider went down entirely but those must be just from stupid customers, not VOIP.  | |
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 r81984Fair and BalancedPremium
join:2001-11-14
Katy, TX | Stupid Customers? "The settlement also cites Vonage for failing to note their VoIP service needed broadband"
Seriously???
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Democrats are not Socialists any more than Republicans are. | |
| | | pretty good for Vonage So they pay a fine of $ 3 million while earning #10 million rom not refunding fees charged after you cancel your service. sounds pretty good for vonage to me. | |
| |  ThrowDemsOutIf you can't convince 'em, confuse 'emPremium
join:2002-03-03
Mullica Hill, NJ
kudos:4 | Re: pretty good for Vonage said by old_wiz_60:So they pay a fine of $ 3 million while earning #10 million rom not refunding fees charged after you cancel your service. sounds pretty good for vonage to me. Actually, the $3 million only covers the lawyers fees. They also have to pay out refunds for any people that file claims with the AG's of all the states involved.
»www.app.com/article/20091116/BUS···al+fight
The plan requires Vonage to make refunds to eligible customers who filed complaints regarding unauthorized charges between January 2004 and March 16, 2010.
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| | Lingo Lingo did the same thing. There customer service number was down for a week, and then when I tried to cancel, you'd get transferred to a dead extension. I finally had to cancel the debit card and dispute bad item on my the credit report. | |
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| |  RickezGoinginsane
join:2000-09-02
Three Rivers, MA
·Comcast
| Re: why do people still use Vonage? I would like to state that Vonage is everything I needed in a phone service for my small business. After fee's it is $32 a month. The services i like in Vonage is it rings my cell phone at the same time as my office line, voice mail to my email as a wav file and it tracks every call in and out by date and time online.
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Got a one way ticket, going the wrong way.... | |
| | |  crazyk4952Premium
join:2002-02-04
united state
kudos:1 | Re: why do people still use Vonage? I am glad that the service works for you. All I am saying is that there are other VOIP providers that will give you those same features for at least $10/month less. | |
| | | |  knightmbEverybody Lies
join:2003-12-01
Franklin, TN | Re: why do people still use Vonage? said by crazyk4952:I am glad that the service works for you. All I am saying is that there are other VOIP providers that will give you those same features for at least $10/month less. And they are? A google search doesn't turn up any VoIP that have the features that my business needs.
I've been using Vonage for over 5 years now with barely a hiccup over the past half decade. It just works and it's damn reliable.
I can't say the same thing about what other people experience because they might have a crappy ISP or some other problem that would interfer with their VoIP experience.
All of my friends and family use Vonage, they never have any issues that I would pin on Vonage. About the most I hear is when the Internet goes down, so does the phone. Well yeah, it's tied to your Internet service.
I have friends that have Comcast VoIP and Charter VoIP; they have a ton of issues with service. So if even the biggest VoIP in the game can't give long reliable service without a hiccup, that makes Vonage stand out even better in my opinion.
I have to agree that Voange customer service really sucks at times. But when it comes to canceling a line, I've never had any issues. Do you really think Vonage is the only *for profit* company in the world that wants to keep your business? What company doesn't want to keep it customers?
I've had to cancel a line or two in my life with Vonage because I just had too many and never had to spend more than 5 minutes doing it. Yeah, they wanted to toss out some offers for me to keep the service, but I told the lady right away that I'm canceling because I don't need the line, not because service sucked. It makes the call really short.
Some people just need to come off the ego. Sure, that doesn't excuse Vonage if the customer service person is being a prick, but come on, thicken up the skin; it's certainly not a perfect world.
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| | | | RickezGoinginsane
join:2000-09-02
Three Rivers, MA | I would like to add, Vonage service did not mix well when I had DSL.
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Got a one way ticket, going the wrong way.... | |
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| knightmbEverybody Lies
join:2003-12-01
Franklin, TN | said by crazyk4952:There are so many other VOIP providers out there that provide better service for a lot cheaper than Vonage does. All you have to do is look! These other providers even offer DISCO, just like Vonage, so you don't need to configure anything! I guess people will believe anything they see on TV... Expand our minds then since the Internet is just as bad as TV when it comes to what people will believe. Yeah, a google search and I've got a hundred advertisements for VoIP service. So which ones suck and which ones rock? Are the reviews real or fake? Can I compare feature sets?
This is a lot more complex than you advertised 
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Reviews:
·AT&T DSL Service
 ·Virgin Mobile Br..
| Only good while you need it I had Vonage for several years. Great reliability, great voice quality, great, great, great! Then, my teens got older and started using their cell phones and I no longer needed an unlimited phone service. Vonage doesn't have any low minute plans so I tried to cancel. What a nightmare. Ridiculous offers to stay to great offers to stay. I agreed to a great offer (3 free months) but my account was never credited. After numerous unsuccessful calls to cancel, I finally canceled the credit card they billed. They still kept my service on for 2 months and billed me for it.
Great company but if you decide you don't need them you're in trouble. | |
| | krichek
join:2004-02-15
Roseville, CA | Re: Only good while you need it said by prestonlewis:I had Vonage for several years. Great reliability, great voice quality, great, great, great! Then, my teens got older and started using their cell phones and I no longer needed an unlimited phone service. Vonage doesn't have any low minute plans so I tried to cancel. What a nightmare. Ridiculous offers to stay to great offers to stay. I agreed to a great offer (3 free months) but my account was never credited. After numerous unsuccessful calls to cancel, I finally canceled the credit card they billed. They still kept my service on for 2 months and billed me for it. Great company but if you decide you don't need them you're in trouble. Exactly the problem I had! I was very happy with their service, never had a problem in the 3+ years I had them but when it came time to cancel due to a move it was ridiculous.
I finally canceled the card as well after 3 more months of billing and calling each time to cancel. 6 months later I start getting calls from a collection agency for 3 months of unpaid service.
Now I tell everyone that asks, stay as far away as you can! | |
| | | crazyk4952Premium
join:2002-02-04
united state
kudos:1 | Re: Only good while you need it This definitely reminds me of AOL... | |
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| | or bell canada »WOW
funny i find out they dont have a copy of the receipt i do.Now they want poor welfare guy to spend money on a fax to eradicate a 264$ debt that i don't owe.No one does.... | |
| djeremy
join:2004-07-12
San Francisco, CA | took me over an hour to cancel I'm glad someone is finally going after them for their shady shenanigans. It took a 64 minute phone call to cancel my service. The rep on the other end of the phone read off all this crap and tried every high pressure sales tactic in the book to sucker me into keeping the service. After about the 30 minute mark, I remember saying at least 3 times during the call "I just want to cancel my service. WTF do I have to do to get you to do that?" | |
|  John_WPremium
join:2000-04-25
Worcester, MA | No problems canceling I canceled my Vonage service about a month ago and it was a remarkably easy process. Maybe I was prepared for the worst, but it seemed quick and easy.
It took about 3 minutes to maneuver through the prompts to finally get transferred to a account cancellation extension. A person picked up almost immediately. She offered me unlimited service for $12.95 for 12 months a few times, which I declined. And she went a head and canceled my service. THe entire process took 6 or 7 minutes. Shocked me.
Maybe I was lucky, or they were in the middle of this whole lawsuit process and didn't want to dig themselves into any deeper holes, but I have to say, my cancellation process was quick and painless.
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Team Discovery--BBR Team Helix--Cuz I Care!! | |
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1 edit | Took me 5 minutes to cancel I just lied (yes I LIED! I'm going to hell, boo hoo hoo) and said that the bad economy made me give up my broadband and I'm going back to dialup.
Someone also said to tell them that your dog died since they have nothing in their script for that. | |
| | eakint
join:2001-03-03
Lincoln University, PA | Re: Took me 5 minutes to cancel I would like to cancel as well, I find them far worse than att-callvantage VOIP that is no longer available. So I swtiched to vonage (maybe I should have shopped more...) anyway, I think my comcast internet connection "blinks" (highly technical term) every few days and the crappy vonage box doesn't find itself. so when people call a vonage recording plays "this number is unallocated" in a most annoying monotone voice. They have do resets on the voip box, and tell me to reset it, but what am I supposed to do, go check the voip box every couple hours. that is not why I am PAYING for their service... anyone have a similar issue to that with the vonage router??? | |
| | | | | Re: Took me 5 minutes to cancel No need for all of that, just tell them you're moving to the middle of Africa and will have no broadband.
Or just tell them your dog died! | |
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 dvd536as Mr. Pink as they comePremium
join:2001-04-27
Phoenix, AZ
kudos:4 | Its pretty easy to cancel. . . . . When you start service with a prepaid credit card and call them up to cancel and inform them you won't be reloading the card you started service with.
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When I gez aju zavateh na nalechoo more new yonooz tonigh molinigh - Ken Lee | |
|  linicxCaveat EmptorPremium
join:2002-12-03
United State
·Cass Communicati..
·CenturyLink
| I filed a complaint with FCC The Vonage telephony device stopped working nine months into a year contract. CS refused to replace it, sell me a new one, and further refused to advise me as to what replacement unit I could buy locally. It took 3 calls and two hours to cancel including once when I was left on HOLD one night while they closed the office and went home. The next day I was finally able to cancel about 45 minutes into the call because I hung up as soon as he said the information was entered.
Vonage returned 3 months service plus tax.
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Mac: No windows, No Gates, Apple inside | |
| | | vonage does bad things I used to work there several years ago. Good to see they are getting theirs now. | |
| Reviews:
·Charter
| I'm very happy with Vonage! I've had Vonage now for over a year. I've been very happy with them.
After all the fees and taxes, my bill comes to around $24 a month for virtually unlimited phone calls (we've never come close to using all the minutes we get).
I have all the bells and whistles. Caller ID, call waiting, voice mail, etc. It was really easy to install. Just plug in the Vonage box, and unplug the AT&T phone cable at the demarc box.
Every time I get a voice mail, a WAV file of the recording is emailed to me and my wife, so we can check it from anywhere.
I've had NO issues with the service. It has always "just worked".
And back to the price, $24. Charter offers their phone service for $40 a month. I was paying almost $40 a month with AT&T, and I didn't even have long distance, caller ID, or anything else like that with them.
And of course, I can take my number anywhere. I've moved, I've changed area codes, and I've changed ISPs. My phone number has stayed the same. I'm still a local call to my mother, regardless of where I'm at in the world.
I've heard people talk about cheaper VoIP companies, but who? MagicJack? I'd have to leave a computer all the time to work as a phone gateway or something. Not a huge deal, but the Vonage router is smaller than the size of a hard drive. It is tucked away on a shelf, plugged into a UPS. I have no idea what features the other companies provide either.
Also, now with the Vonage iPhone app, I can make calls from my iPhone that show up as my Vonage HOME phone number on someone's caller ID!
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Vonage used standard practice for the new business model!
Most subscription services related to computer technology follow the new business model:
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