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story category Vonage To Resell Covad DSL
Because customers just really like the Vonage brand, says CEO
10:34AM Friday May 09 2008 by Karl Bode
tags: competition · business · clec · VoIP · Vonage · Covad Communications
Tipped by DSLTech See Profile
A struggling VoIP company everyone thought would be dead by now partners with a CLEC everyone thought would be dead by now to resell broadband. Sound like a good idea to you? Vonage, still trying to dig out of their financial hole, has announced they've partnered with Covad to resell DSL service. It looks like they won't be reselling faster Covad's faster ADSL2+ tiers, but slower 3-6Mbps connectivity. Says Vonage CEO Jeff Citron:
Consistent with our strategy of focusing on the customer, Vonage Broadband enables us to respond to the demand we hear from customers who prefer the Vonage brand," said Jeffrey Citron, Chairman, Chief Strategist, and Interim CEO. "In addition, it provides us with a competitive offering that continues to give customers the freedom of choice."
I hate to break the news to Jeff, but the Vonage "brand," aside from being linked with that annoying song, is being associated with financial strife and annoying cancellation policies. Citron made customer retention his number one priority, and while revenue grew slightly, first quarter earnings show customer churn increased from 3 to 3.3%. At that rate, Vonage is forced to replace more than a third of their customers every year.

Maybe reselling a DSL double play will keep Vonage from being run over by cable operators on the VoIP highway, but probably not. An analyst recently told me that cable operators now control more than 80% of the VoIP market, and that number continues to rise, largely thanks to triple play introductory offers.

Related:
  1. Vonage Wants Verizon Ruling Review
  2. AT&T Sues Vonage
  3. Vonage Settles With AT&T
  4. Vonage Owes Verizon $120 Million
  5. Vonage CEO: 'Things Are Going Very Well'
  6. Comcast Says They'll Play Nice With Vonage
  7. Vonage Picks Ex-AT&T Exec As New CEO
  8. Free Cablevision Wi-Fi To Offer VoIP, Video
Forums » Vonage To Resell Covad DSL
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Cheese
Premium
join:2003-10-26
Naples, FL
clubs:

I'll give them a year....

And they will no longer be selling this service, or even be around.

ptrowski
Got Helix?
Premium
join:2005-03-14
Putnam, CT
clubs:

Re: I'll give them a year....

I doubt it. That has been said many times.

S_engineer

join:2007-05-16
Chicago, IL

Re: I'll give them a year....

somebody believes is them. as of this writing their stock is up 1.8 percent...............to $1.84!
--
"Anything worth having is worth cheating for." WC Fields

knightmb

join:2003-12-01
Franklin, TN
·Comcast
·Vonage
·Speakeasy

said by Cheese See Profile :

And they will no longer be selling this service, or even be around.
I should do a search for my username and see how many times I've responded with "yeah, that's what they all said last year"

Heard this as far as back as 2005 and here it is 2008 and they are still here.

Cheese
Premium
join:2003-10-26
Naples, FL
clubs:

Re: I'll give them a year....

said by knightmb See Profile :

said by Cheese See Profile :

And they will no longer be selling this service, or even be around.
I should do a search for my username and see how many times I've responded with "yeah, that's what they all said last year"

Heard this as far as back as 2005 and here it is 2008 and they are still here.
2 failing companies = 1 big failure
imanogre

join:2005-11-29
Mcdonough, GA

Re: I'll give them a year....

Just like when Air Tran and ValueJet merged...

Oh wait, that worked out pretty well didn't it.

Cheese
Premium
join:2003-10-26
Naples, FL
clubs:

Re: I'll give them a year....

said by imanogre See Profile :

Just like when Air Tran and ValueJet merged...

Oh wait, that worked out pretty well didn't it.
Apples, meet oranges....

knightmb

join:2003-12-01
Franklin, TN
·Comcast
·Vonage
·Speakeasy

said by Cheese See Profile :

said by knightmb See Profile :

said by Cheese See Profile :

And they will no longer be selling this service, or even be around.
I should do a search for my username and see how many times I've responded with "yeah, that's what they all said last year"

Heard this as far as back as 2005 and here it is 2008 and they are still here.
2 failing companies = 1 big failure
Haha, another one I be able to point at next year. I should make a predictions list like "Comcast is dieing, it will be dead next year" and eventually I will be right? My favorite would be "AOL will be dead by the end of the year", but one can only hope?

MattE
Obama '08
Premium
join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC
·North State Commun..
·Corporate Colocation

Potential

This has the potential to make their VoIP offering better for the customers who subscribe to Covad DSL and Vonage VoIP. It would be pretty trivial for them to eliminate the internet while backhauling their traffic via a dedicated Covad -> Vonage link ... thus vastly improving the quality of their VoIP product.

The question is, will they do it?

dnoyeB
Ferrous Phallus

join:2000-10-09
Southfield, MI

Re: Potential

I don't think trivial is the right word. They would have to work out a true arrangement with Covad. The current arrangement of "reselling" something is just a marketing one. What your talking about would require more engineering. I don't think they can make that investment.

I don't see that the company itself has problems so much as their stock price has problems. I don't know why anyone would go with the triple play which costs $33 a month on sale while Vonage costs $15 not on sale. Comcast keeps trying to offer that to me each time I call in and I have to point out to them its nowhere near a savings for me...
--
dnoyeB
"Then said I, Wisdom [is] better than strength: nevertheless the poor man's wisdom [is] despised, and his words are not heard. " Ecclesiastes 9:16

MattE
Obama '08
Premium
join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC
·North State Commun..
·Corporate Colocation

Re: Potential

said by dnoyeB See Profile :

I don't think trivial is the right word. They would have to work out a true arrangement with Covad.
Place a couple high speed backhaul links from diverse Covad POPs to the Vonage datacenter, a couple simple routing rules and you're good to go.

It's not rocket science. This is first level CCNA stuff.
elister

join:2006-07-17
Seattle, WA

vonage will have to spend money on tech support as the "its your isp" resolution wont cut it anymore. worked fir a small cable company, often would people upgrade to our 10 meg service because vonage said their 6m down / 768k up service was too slow.
patcat88

join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY

Re: Potential

Consider Vonage a plus then. teehehehehe
JDAC

join:2007-02-24

I'm giving them a week

They started out great, but over time people just couldn't hear me.

Now I'm on slower broadband so I haven't even turned it back on.

TK Junk Mail
Go ahead, make my day
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Margate City, NJ
clubs:
·Comcast


edit:
May 9th, @10:49AM

Marriage of 2 over the hill has beens won't extend life ...

...of either of these companies. The most Covad can hope for is to be bought out by some big telco. And Vonage doesn't even have that hope. The cable companies will just wait till they die. Vonage is already irrelevant as a competitor.
--
My BLOG .. .. Internet News .. .. My Web Page
satellite68

join:2007-04-11
Louisville, KY
·Vonage
·Insight Communicat..

Re: Marriage of 2 over the hill has beens won't extend life ...

said by TK Junk Mail See Profile :

...of either of these companies. The most Covad can hope for is to be bought out by some big telco. And Vonage doesn't even have that hope. The cable companies will just wait till they die. Vonage is already irrelevant as a competitor.
It's just hilarious to me that the armchair "experts" on this topic chime in everytime to announce the demise of both Covad and Vonage.

I worked for Covad in 2000-2001, and nearly eight years later the patient isn't dead yet. I've been using Vonage for over three years now, and continue to hear early obituaries being sounded and yet, no dead patient.

Maybe the longer and harder the prognosticators wish for their mutual destruction, the harder and longer it will be to kill them both off.

burgermeister
All Computers Are Junk

join:2000-10-23
Utica, MI

Re: Marriage of 2 over the hill has beens won't extend life ...

said by satellite68 See Profile :

I worked for Covad in 2000-2001, and nearly eight years later the patient isn't dead yet. I've been using Vonage for over three years now, and continue to hear early obituaries being sounded and yet, no dead patient.
Well, it's true that Covad lives on (now private), but it's also true that they never turned a profit (while burning through hoards of cash) and pissed off shareholders all while customer service went down the tubes. Not a well run company. It will be interesting to see what happens now that they're privately held.
--
"I've learned that depression is merely anger without enthusiasm."
satellite68

join:2007-04-11
Louisville, KY
·Vonage
·Insight Communicat..

Re: Marriage of 2 over the hill has beens won't extend life ...

...and regardless of those circumstances, they're still breathing.

Their customer service issues weren't always their problems, lots of ILEC foot dragging/delays, and blatant fraud/anti competitive behaviors...you know, like flat out refusing to provision ordered/paid for circuits, provisioning the wrong circuits, cutting pairs on purpose, etc. I wouldn't have believed it unless I saw it myself.

burgermeister
All Computers Are Junk

join:2000-10-23
Utica, MI

Re: Marriage of 2 over the hill has beens won't extend life ...

Yup, I don't doubt you're correct. It's a rough business being a CLEC, that's for sure.

I have to tell you that as a customer I was extremely happy with their service until that last year or so. I guess they had to save money, but the support was really bad. Prior to their changes, I though Covad was, by far, the best.

Maybe they'll see good improvements with the new owner.
--
"I've learned that depression is merely anger without enthusiasm."

KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK
·Cox HSI
·AT&T Southwest

I disagree.

I don't think Covad was poorly run. I think they had the same problem all the other start-ups had... The Communications Act of 1996 was never properly implemented or enforced, and then worse, it was ripped out from under them.

That they survive now, while so many others already died, is more a testament to the management then anything else.

However, I do agree the future looks not so great.

I think their only hope is if they can hang on and slowly build out their own fiber network... without borrowing large amounts of cash.
--
"Regulatory capitalism is when companies invest in lawyers, lobbyists, and politicians, instead of plant, people, and customer service." - former FCC Chairman William Kennard (A real FCC Chairman, unlike the current Corporate Spokesperson in the job!)
patcat88

join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY

Covad will never die, if they do the FCC will be in trouble since there won't be any DSL resellers left in this country, sparking criticism from Congress since Covad won't exist for Congress critters to tell themselves "there is no monopoly on high speed internet since Covad exists" to sleep at night. It would be like if Martin actually bankrupted Comcast and now tomorrow only Satellite TV exists (and a minimal amount of telco TV), or if Amtrak declared bankruptcy and closed up shop.

No Free Ride

@comcast.net

Re: Marriage of 2 over the hill has beens won't extend life ...

Unfortunately Amtrak is alive today because of all the Local, state and Federal Subsidies.

Since it's inception(I believe 1972) it has Received BILLIONS AND BILLIONS just to keep it going.

Heres an example of a News article from April 29, 2008

"Missouri House and Senate budget negotiators approved on Tuesday $8 million in subsidies that will allow Amtrak to continue operating two passenger trains that make two trips per day between St. Louis and Kansas City"
»www.bizjournals.com/stlouis/stor···y28.html
patcat88

join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY


edit:
May 11th, @02:19PM

Re: Marriage of 2 over the hill has beens won't extend life ...

said by No Free Ride :

Since it's inception(I believe 1972) it has Received BILLIONS AND BILLIONS just to keep it going.
Since it's inception airlines have Received BILLIONS AND BILLIONS just to keep them going.

All public transportation is subsidized to an extent in this country.

jonnyb

join:2008-03-15
Haverhill, NH

The problem with Vonage and other Voip providers

is that they dont support there product, if you have a problem and you call all they do is tell you its your ISP. I would only get a Voip product if they also provided the internet as well then you know that you at least have a chance to get the problem resolved.

dnoyeB
Ferrous Phallus

join:2000-10-09
Southfield, MI

Re: The problem with Vonage and other Voip providers

So then you think this marriage solves one of their core problems!?

ptrowski
Got Helix?
Premium
join:2005-03-14
Putnam, CT
clubs:
·ViaTalk
·AT&T DSL Service

Re: The problem with Vonage and other Voip providers

said by dnoyeB See Profile :

So then you think this marriage solves one of their core problems!?
No, he's a Comcast guy.

jonnyb

join:2008-03-15
Haverhill, NH

i wouldnt say that it solves the problem but i might help it hopefully. As for Ptrowski he is bitter because he does his own wiring in his home and has problems with his cable comp., leave the wiring to someone that knows how to do it then you might not hate your cable comp as much K pal get over it...

burgermeister
All Computers Are Junk

join:2000-10-23
Utica, MI

Re: The problem with Vonage and other Voip providers

said by jonnyb See Profile :

As for Ptrowski he is bitter because he does his own wiring in his home and has problems with his cable comp., leave the wiring to someone that knows how to do it then you might not hate your cable comp as much K pal get over it...
Some of the best wiring from Cable companies I've experienced: leaving orange wire strung across the yard for months and the ever popular cable running through the heat vents.

Best to limit the cable companies access to wire as much as possible!
--
"I've learned that depression is merely anger without enthusiasm."

jonnyb

join:2008-03-15
Haverhill, NH

Re: The problem with Vonage and other Voip providers

I guess it all depends on the person that is doing the work at your home i have had nothing but good experiences same for the people i know that have had cable work done. that kind of stuff your talking about should not happen and happens to other companies as well i have heard similar stories about verizon leaving temporary lines above ground for a long time and doing some shaddy wiring they did it at my house.

burgermeister
All Computers Are Junk

join:2000-10-23
Utica, MI

Re: The problem with Vonage and other Voip providers

Oh yea, you're right: it does depend on who's doing the work. But sometimes you just have to laugh at some of the things that happen.

Wide Open West has been pretty good and I'm pretty happy with them, even though the cable was run through the heat vent. Funny thing is that I didn't even know until I replaced my floors. I had to laugh.
--
"I've learned that depression is merely anger without enthusiasm."

jonnyb

join:2008-03-15
Haverhill, NH

Re: The problem with Vonage and other Voip providers

running cable through a heat vent is not ideal but will not cause a problem believe it or not.

burgermeister
All Computers Are Junk

join:2000-10-23
Utica, MI

Re: The problem with Vonage and other Voip providers

Technically, no it doesn't. The problem is that my wife and I put in the wood floors with the nice flush-mounted wood vents and the cable won't go through. Not to mention how it looks. I guess I'll just run my own through the wall. Not a huge deal, just a pain.
--
"I've learned that depression is merely anger without enthusiasm."

ptrowski
Got Helix?
Premium
join:2005-03-14
Putnam, CT
clubs:
·ViaTalk
·AT&T DSL Service

said by jonnyb See Profile :

i wouldnt say that it solves the problem but i might help it hopefully. As for Ptrowski he is bitter because he does his own wiring in his home and has problems with his cable comp., leave the wiring to someone that knows how to do it then you might not hate your cable comp as much K pal get over it...
Nope, that's not it. The drop to my house is 2 years old as is all the internal wiring that was done by an electrician.

I would say it is that you are a Comcast guy.
--
"A religious war is like children fighting over who has the strongest imaginary friend."

Have you been touched by his noodly appendage? »www.venganza.org

See 9 replies to this post

RockyBB
Premium
join:2005-01-31
Castle Rock, CO

About 2 years overdue

imagine all the unsophisticated DSL customers porting their phone numbers over to Vonage only to find the order rejected due to DSL on the line! Woo-hoo, indeed! This partnership should have been struck years ago. Other providers would be smart to copy it.
jester121

join:2003-08-09
Lake Zurich, IL

Seems fair

Covad has already proven they can screw up VOIP, so it stands to reason that Vonage can screw up ADSL.

CUBS_FAN
Wait 'til next year. Again

join:2005-04-28
Chicago, IL
·Comcast
·Vonage

Covad = $$$$

In the past I've inquired about Covad and found it to be too rich for my pockets. They wanted like $150/month to serve customers who are located in the fringe areas of DSL coverage. According to what I was told " for fringe customers Covad would have to install a remote terminal locally to account for the distance". ummmm.... No thanks

jimbo48

join:2000-11-17
Hayward, CA
·EarthLink

Re: Covad = $$$$

COvad offered me 1.5 down /1.5 up for just a little over 295.00 a month (if the lines were in good enough shape-no gurantees). 1.5 up and down won't carry VOIP if you're using the internet for much of anything. So just because you have "rock solid DSL" you stilll need a big enough pipe to deliver it consistently and cleanly. My VOIP service just limps along under an overly long loop (thanks to lies from my reseller) so my only recourse is to go cable and put up with an equally oversold cable node.Not much of a choice

a333
A hot cup of integrals please

join:2007-06-12
Corona, NY
·Verizon Online DSL

Re: Covad = $$$$

just set the QoS settings on your router to allocate about 128 K bandwidth in either direction. Heck, even 96 Kbits/sec is fine. Just because your DSL was crappy doesn't mean everyone's is. The point ptrowski was trying to make is that, if you compare a properly functioning cable and a fastpath DSL line, the DSL line will carry VoIP much better, given that both have the same QoS settings enabled.

Comprendes?
patcat88

join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY

said by jimbo48 See Profile :

COvad offered me 1.5 down /1.5 up for just a little over 295.00 a month (if the lines were in good enough shape-no gurantees).
Was that SDSL, ADSL2 or a T1 you were quoted?

CUBS_FAN
Wait 'til next year. Again

join:2005-04-28
Chicago, IL
·Comcast
·Vonage

said by jimbo48 See Profile :

COvad offered me 1.5 down /1.5 up for just a little over 295.00 a month (if the lines were in good enough shape-no gurantees).
I was wrong, it was something like almost $300/mo for crappy 1.5 up and down. I was like " no thanks, Ill stick with my fluctuating Comcast HSI"
ditka_b
Premium
join:2001-10-05
Barrington, IL

Covads been bought

»www.covad.com/web/about/newsroom···1508.pdf

Probably safer than ever depending on what they do..

jonez
Got Anime?
Premium
join:2004-09-24
Stow, MA

edit:
May 9th, @06:22PM

Time to start selling orchids!

looks like vonage will be getting into the flower business soon (like juno and others)

Vonage flowers anyone?
qworster

join:2001-11-25
Los Angeles, CA

Now they need to partner with Dish or DirecTv

If they do that, they can offer a triple play. This will work-especially if they can offer dry line DSL.

Of course, I'm sure that Verizon, AT&T or some other patent troll will be suing them over this any minute....

DSLTech

join:2000-12-30
San Jose, CA

Thanks Karl

But pretty please, cut the negative drama.

DSLR always seems to b*tch about the big telco and cable companies modifying and capping bandwidth and spying on customers but then they turn around and write a snide little snippet humoring two wounded independent competitors trying to provide customers an alternative.

It may be funny now but when all you have is Comcast, AT&T and Verizon, they'll be the only ones laughing.

Step up to the plate and try and write some remarks using some forward-thinking intelligence, if you have any.

Now I remember whey I quit visiting DSLR .. just a bunch of people complaining about problems that they turn around and spend money contributing to. So long.
Forums » Vonage To Resell Covad DSL


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