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We Get It: 2008 Is NOT The Year Of The Femtocell
2009 and 2010 will be, says yet another study...
by Karl Bode 07:31AM Thursday Aug 21 2008
First we heard constant predictions that 2008 was the "year of the femtocell," a technology that essentially creates a micro cell tower in your home that improves wireless coverage and allows you to make calls over your broadband connection. But ABI research recently predicted the real launches would occur in 2009 and 2010, something supported by a new Heavy Reading survey. "Among the 111 responses from the 79 operators surveyed, 54 percent said that they planned to launch services between the second half of 2009 and the end of 2010, and 33 percent said their commercial femtocell launches were scheduled for 2011 or later," says the report. Nearly every major player (including Comcast and AT&T) have shown interest in the technology.

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KeysCapt
FAQ Master
join:2001-07-11
Carson City, NV
kudos:1

Not Sprint, no sir!

Sprint isn't going to make its customers wait. They're rolling it out now.
said by Telephony Online :
Sprint is taking its Airave femtocell pilot commercial, announcing today it will begin selling the home base station technology on Aug. 17 to its customers across the country.
Ah, but wait. True to its grain (IMO), they're not gonna give anything away.
quote:
Sprint, however, seems to be defying industry expectations for the service, charging customers both for the femtocell and the service, effectively asking subscribers to subsidize the cost of expanding network coverage.
»telephonyonline.com/access/news/···on-0730/

old_dawg
"I Know Noting..."

join:2001-09-22
Westminster, MD

Re: Not Sprint, no sir!

Hmmm, pardon me if I misinterpret both yours and the reaction of a the quoted "hot air" analyst. It was always my impression that a company is in business to turn a profit, to make stockholders happy, you know that thing called capitalism?.

You want somebody to give you something, the mission/soup kitchen is down the block.
--
"Our network engineers are aware of the problem..."

KeysCapt
FAQ Master
join:2001-07-11
Carson City, NV
kudos:1

Re: Not Sprint, no sir!

I didn't write it, I just quoted it.

NY Tel
Premium
join:2004-04-09
Smithtown, NY
kudos:3

Re: Not Sprint, no sir!

said by KeysCapt:

I didn't write it, I just quoted it.
lol

SillyRabbit

@tds.net
said by old_dawg:

Hmmm, pardon me if I misinterpret both yours and the reaction of a the quoted "hot air" analyst. It was always my impression that a company is in business to turn a profit, to make stockholders happy, you know that thing called capitalism?.

You want somebody to give you something, the mission/soup kitchen is down the block.
I agree to a point. I guess it is good for them if they can get their customers to sub their rollout, though... That's not how 'small' business works. My problem is that there are different rules for the little business versus these mega corps. Let's not go overboard with the soup kitchen analogy.

en102
Canadian, eh?

join:2001-01-26
Valencia, CA
Sprint's still losing almost a million subs/quarter..... They have more important things to worry about than femtocell being cheap.
--
Canada = Hollywood North

NetAdmin1
CCNA

join:2008-05-22
People aren't expecting Sprint to give them a femtocell, but the idea that you end up paying out of pocket to expand THEIR network is pretty low. Sprint should be investing in their network, not expecting customers to build their network on their dime.

There is a difference between expecting something for free and expecting a company to invest in itself.
--
---
Eleven years of carrying The Clue Bat...

CylonRed
Premium,MVM
join:2000-07-06
Bloom County

Re: Not Sprint, no sir!

But then if the company does not have the money and can't get new money (credit) then they have to do the next best thing and I am betting - they don't have a lot of cash hanging around and with the credit crunch and not a lot of really healthy VC's....
B
Premium,MVM
join:2000-10-28
Okay, I'm confused.

You can't mean that the femtocells will accept cellular traffic from just anybody? You mean they're not limited to registered phones of household members, but rather actually act as a cell tower to the general public?

Using up the homeowner's "private" broadband Internet bandwidth??

That can never fly in densely populated areas.

I was really high on the idea of femtocells until I read this. What's the story?

-- B
--
In a realm outside causality and function

NY Tel
Premium
join:2004-04-09
Smithtown, NY
kudos:3

1 edit

Re: Not Sprint, no sir!

said by B:

Okay, I'm confused.

You can't mean that the femtocells will accept cellular traffic from just anybody? You mean they're not limited to registered phones of household members, but rather actually act as a cell tower to the general public?

Using up the homeowner's "private" broadband Internet bandwidth??You have to register your SIM or ESN or phone number in order for it to work on the femtocell otherwise I would talk my neighbors into getting one.......

That can never fly in densely populated areas.

I was really high on the idea of femtocells until I read this. What's the story?

-- B
You have to register your cell/SIM/ESN/IMEI or what ever identifier for it to work.

Otherwise I would be convincing my neighbors that they needed it.
B
Premium,MVM
join:2000-10-28

Re: Not Sprint, no sir!

Oh good. Thanks.

So then isn't "Sprint, however, seems to be defying industry expectations for the service, charging customers both for the femtocell and the service, effectively asking subscribers to subsidize the cost of expanding network coverage." a big fat load of hooey?

-- B
--
In a realm outside causality and function

wifi4milez
Big Russ, 1918 to 2008. Rest in Peace

join:2004-08-07
New York, NY

Re: Not Sprint, no sir!

said by B:

Oh good. Thanks.

So then isn't "Sprint, however, seems to be defying industry expectations for the service, charging customers both for the femtocell and the service, effectively asking subscribers to subsidize the cost of expanding network coverage." a big fat load of hooey?

-- B
Yup! Thats whats so humorous about the whole situation. As
--
If history teaches us anything, it teaches that simple-minded appeasement or wishful thinking about our adversaries is folly.
-Ronald Reagan-

swintec
Premium,VIP
join:2003-12-19
Alfred, ME
kudos:5
Reviews:
·Time Warner Cable
·VoicePulse
·Sprint Mobile Br..
·RapidVPS
You have the OPTION to secure the device. The unit itself supports up to three calls at the same time. If you login into your Sprint account, you can add phones which are allowed to use your Airave device. All others will be denied. I do not live in a very populated area so I do not bother to lock mine down. One problem though is, if you lock the device down, for only a couple of phones and someone else comes wondering along and tries to use there own Sprint phone, they are denied the ability to make a call and will receive a message on there phone that they are on a restricted network and to move away from it. This is a huge problem for those in an urban area or apartment building since you effectively have a "legal" cell phone jammer. Lets hope a firmware update in the future fixes this.
--
Usenet Accounts
B
Premium,MVM
join:2000-10-28

Re: Not Sprint, no sir!

Well that sounds like a mess in the making. The handsets won't simply roam to the available, weaker signal from the regular tower?

-- B
--
In a realm outside causality and function

NY Tel
Premium
join:2004-04-09
Smithtown, NY
kudos:3
said by swintec:

....... One problem though is, if you lock the device down, for only a couple of phones and someone else comes wondering along and tries to use there own Sprint phone, they are denied the ability to make a call and will receive a message on there phone that they are on a restricted network and to move away from it. This is a huge problem for those in an urban area or apartment building since you effectively have a "legal" cell phone jammer. Lets hope a firmware update in the future fixes this.
That is a major flaw. See that's because they probably write lousy Methods & Procedures for their services.

Bad product Development. Really.

wifi4milez
Big Russ, 1918 to 2008. Rest in Peace

join:2004-08-07
New York, NY
said by NY Tel:

said by B:

Okay, I'm confused.

You can't mean that the femtocells will accept cellular traffic from just anybody? You mean they're not limited to registered phones of household members, but rather actually act as a cell tower to the general public?

Using up the homeowner's "private" broadband Internet bandwidth??You have to register your SIM or ESN or phone number in order for it to work on the femtocell otherwise I would talk my neighbors into getting one.......

That can never fly in densely populated areas.

I was really high on the idea of femtocells until I read this. What's the story?

-- B
You have to register your cell/SIM/ESN/IMEI or what ever identifier for it to work.

Otherwise I would be convincing my neighbors that they needed it.
Actually no! Out of the box the device will work with any Sprint device that comes into its range. You need to specifically limit it to certain phones, otherwise its basically wide open!

said by Sprint Airave User Guide Page 10 :
To prevent unauthorized users from accessing the base
station and diminishing your available bandwidth, the base
station can be secured to allow only a small pool of phones to
use it.
»www.sprint.com/cdma/assets/pdfs/···e_ug.pdf
--
If history teaches us anything, it teaches that simple-minded appeasement or wishful thinking about our adversaries is folly.
-Ronald Reagan-

NetAdmin1
CCNA

join:2008-05-22

Re: Not Sprint, no sir!

said by wifi4milez:

Actually no! Out of the box the device will work with any Sprint device that comes into its range. You need to specifically limit it to certain phones, otherwise its basically wide open!
Lovely. So, just like wireless access point, wide-open, not secure by default is now going to be affecting cell phones. You would think that device security, especially on a pay service, would be a high priority. Sprint better make the instructions and warnings about the security settings prominent and clear for the average customer.
--
---
Eleven years of carrying The Clue Bat...

swintec
Premium,VIP
join:2003-12-19
Alfred, ME
kudos:5
Reviews:
·Time Warner Cable
·VoicePulse
·Sprint Mobile Br..
·RapidVPS

Re: Not Sprint, no sir!

said by NetAdmin1:

said by wifi4milez:

Actually no! Out of the box the device will work with any Sprint device that comes into its range. You need to specifically limit it to certain phones, otherwise its basically wide open!
Lovely. So, just like wireless access point, wide-open, not secure by default is now going to be affecting cell phones. You would think that device security, especially on a pay service, would be a high priority. Sprint better make the instructions and warnings about the security settings prominent and clear for the average customer.
Any minutes used while on the device, by a stranger or not...would come out of the individual subscribers minutes and not the owner of the Airave device. The most the owner is losing is a bit of bandwidth...although if there connection is metered or they have caps...this could be a problem.
--
Usenet Accounts

NetAdmin1
CCNA

join:2008-05-22

Re: Not Sprint, no sir!

said by swintec:

Any minutes used while on the device, by a stranger or not...would come out of the individual subscribers minutes and not the owner of the Airave device. The most the owner is losing is a bit of bandwidth...although if there connection is metered or they have caps...this could be a problem.
Because the device only accepts a finite number of devices, I think it is three, if you are in a heavily populated area, like a city or suburb, and your femtocell is wide open, people in your area can conceivable connect to your device and prevent you from connecting. Think of it as an unintended DoS.
--
---
Eleven years of carrying The Clue Bat...

Veloslave
Geek For God
Premium
join:2003-07-11
Martinez, CA
Reviews:
·Comcast
·PHONE POWER

1 edit
That thing called supply and demand is kicking Sprints behind in the capitalism game you speak of. The fact that there is more AND MUCH better supply like Verizon for example that actually puts in a lot of towers instead of expecting their customers to make the coverage happen themselves.

The femtocell product minus some exceptions is an insult to cell phone owners world wide. Why should we already be paying the going rate to have coverage... BUT THEN have the company tell us to pay for the equipment AND THE ACCESS (IP) if we want to have the quality we have already paid for?

Just say no to that crap... get a decent provider and call in to mention bad reception areas. I have done this with Verizon and seen towers go up in a year... maybe that was lucky or an exception but it is no mystery why Verizon has the highest rated cellphone product... good network and good service to back it up.

Of course Sprint already has the femtocell... and they want you to pay for it. HA!... that is cheaper than building the towers they need so badly and they don't have to pay for it... what a joke. They better be paying for the equipment AND be giving a fee for the broadband they are leaching off of or else someone is getting the shaft.

/vent
DarnellP

join:2004-10-12
Las Vegas, NV

Re: Not Sprint, no sir!

said by Veloslave:

That thing called supply and demand is kicking Sprints behind in the capitalism game you speak of. The fact that there is more AND MUCH better supply like Verizon for example that actually puts in a lot of towers instead of expecting their customers to make the coverage happen themselves.

Of course Sprint already has the femtocell... and they want you to pay for it. HA!... that is cheaper than building the towers they need so badly and they don't have to pay for it... what a joke. They better be paying for the equipment AND be giving a fee for the broadband they are leaching off of or else someone is getting the shaft.

/vent
Nonsense. Your beloved Verizon is also planning on rolling out their own femtocell product. It's not really in VZW's nature to give anything away so expect to see them charge for theirs too...

Veloslave
Geek For God
Premium
join:2003-07-11
Martinez, CA
Reviews:
·Comcast
·PHONE POWER

Re: Not Sprint, no sir!

Just another reason... with exection to those areas that can't really hope to be served very well (but then you have to wonder where they would be getting the IP to support the FTC out in the sticks) for not playing into this scam. I like Verizon, obviously... so do most but they are still a large corporation that only cares about the mighty dollar. Some companies, like Verizon, realize that keeping the customer happy will bring in the $$ and then there are the companies that just try to shove things down the consumers throats. If everyone else is going to do this then why wouldn't Verizon... especially if it will not need to be used that much except for the weird outlying areas? All the other companies have already told the customers that they should not expect good coverage and that they will need to create their own... so the PR nightmare is practically avoided.

Just my opinion... but I think that if consumers start adopting these things (minus exceptional areas) that we, as consumers will be setting ourselves up for the companies to just keep providing less.

wifi4milez
Big Russ, 1918 to 2008. Rest in Peace

join:2004-08-07
New York, NY
said by KeysCapt:

Sprint isn't going to make its customers wait. They're rolling it out now.
said by Telephony Online :
Sprint is taking its Airave femtocell pilot commercial, announcing today it will begin selling the home base station technology on Aug. 17 to its customers across the country.
Ah, but wait. True to its grain (IMO), they're not gonna give anything away.
quote:
Sprint, however, seems to be defying industry expectations for the service, charging customers both for the femtocell and the service, effectively asking subscribers to subsidize the cost of expanding network coverage.
»telephonyonline.com/access/news/···on-0730/
Yeah its pretty crazy. I can understand charging for the unit, but to then charge existing customers an additional $5 per month just to use their (paid) minutes is nuts. I think Sprint should charge for an unlimited option while at home however, as this adds value to the customer.
--
If history teaches us anything, it teaches that simple-minded appeasement or wishful thinking about our adversaries is folly.
-Ronald Reagan-

NY Tel
Premium
join:2004-04-09
Smithtown, NY
kudos:3

Re: Not Sprint, no sir!

said by JoeMama1 :

Yes, Sprint FINALLY released the Airave Femtocell and while I had for only less than a week, it works great! No problems at all, even under heavy network traffic. Yes, this should have been released a year ago but oh well, it is here not and local Sprint stores were selling out of these on the first day.

I lot of people complain that Sprint charges for this. Why shouldn't they? For free unlimited calls at home (where I'm on the phone most anyway) for your entire family (up to 5 phones) it is $20. Worth it for my family. Way better than VOIP because if internet is down, call is just sent over cell tower so less chance of missed calls.

May not be the year of the femtocell but certainly the beginning of the femtocell era.
But this poster says he gets free calls when using the femtocell. To me, that is worth it.

wifi4milez
Big Russ, 1918 to 2008. Rest in Peace

join:2004-08-07
New York, NY

Re: Not Sprint, no sir!

said by NY Tel:

said by JoeMama1 :

Yes, Sprint FINALLY released the Airave Femtocell and while I had for only less than a week, it works great! No problems at all, even under heavy network traffic. Yes, this should have been released a year ago but oh well, it is here not and local Sprint stores were selling out of these on the first day.

I lot of people complain that Sprint charges for this. Why shouldn't they? For free unlimited calls at home (where I'm on the phone most anyway) for your entire family (up to 5 phones) it is $20. Worth it for my family. Way better than VOIP because if internet is down, call is just sent over cell tower so less chance of missed calls.

May not be the year of the femtocell but certainly the beginning of the femtocell era.
But this poster says he gets free calls when using the femtocell. To me, that is worth it.
Yes, Sprint offers unlimited service for up to 5 phones for an additional $20 per month if you have their femtocell. Thats a good deal for people who need it, and I fully support then (Sprint) doing it. My point was that if you simply want to use your regular minutes that you already pay for (and chose not to buy the unlimited plan), they stick you with an additional $5 per month, plus taxes and fess (which totals around $10). THAT is not worth it, and Sprint has taken so much heat over it that they are now giving the devices away for free, and waiving the $5 charge to basically anyone that asks.
--
If history teaches us anything, it teaches that simple-minded appeasement or wishful thinking about our adversaries is folly.
-Ronald Reagan-

NY Tel
Premium
join:2004-04-09
Smithtown, NY
kudos:3

Re: Not Sprint, no sir!

Yeah but I can't wait to see what Verizon Wireless is going to charge for it.....

burgerwars

join:2004-09-11
Northridge, CA

Cellphone providers should get with it.

Sometimes I think I live in a cellphone wasteland. An area where houses are squashed together, where cellphone signals can't get through unless I stand on the roof of my two-story house holding my cellphone taped to a pole.

Come'on AT&T and start offering this, since it looks like you (and the other providers) have no intention on improving reception. I'm willing to pay for the unit, but forget it if you're thinking of adding another $10 a month for this service.

JoeMama1

@ameritech.net

Sprint FINALLY released the Airave Femtocell

Yes, Sprint FINALLY released the Airave Femtocell and while I had for only less than a week, it works great! No problems at all, even under heavy network traffic. Yes, this should have been released a year ago but oh well, it is here not and local Sprint stores were selling out of these on the first day.

I lot of people complain that Sprint charges for this. Why shouldn't they? For free unlimited calls at home (where I'm on the phone most anyway) for your entire family (up to 5 phones) it is $20. Worth it for my family. Way better than VOIP because if internet is down, call is just sent over cell tower so less chance of missed calls.

May not be the year of the femtocell but certainly the beginning of the femtocell era.
JJV
Premium
join:2001-04-25
Seattle, WA

Re: Sprint FINALLY released the Airave Femtocell

I have one. It works great and sprint gave it to me for free.

Noah Vail
Son made my Avatar
Premium
join:2004-12-10
Lorton, VA
kudos:3
Reviews:
·Bright House

Got Tired of waiting.

I carry an AT&T and a Verizon phone. In my home, I'd have to draw circles on the floor to know where to stand to complete a phone call.

I'd had enough and went to »www.antennasearch.com to see whose cell tower that was at my neighborhood entrance. We are now the proud owner of a prepaid T-Mobile phone that gets 4-5 bars inside the house.

Since none of my customers are T-Mobile Corporate customers, I'll actually have to pay the $20/mo, myself. Ah well.

NV

Joemama1

@ameritech.net

Airave Femtocell free?

FYI - The Airave is $99 and does not have any sort of contract. From what I understand after talking to someone about cancelling my account at Sprint, if you call the Customer Retention department saying you will cancel your service, they will happily send you an Airrave FREE but with a 2 yr contract! I think it is worth $99 to avoid a contract.
I know some people still don't think it is worth it to pay $4.99 for the device and $20 for unlimited family calling or $10 for individual acct especially if you have a bandwidth cap on your ISP but think of it this way - Home VOIP can easily cost more than $25 (some bundles like Comcast Digital Voice is almost $40 w/ tax) plus a typical VOIP call w/ overhead can use 120-160kb/s while each call on Airave is only at 40kb/s.

The BIGGEST reason to get it is you transmit at a very low power - something like 0.002 watts, saving battery and keeping radiation away from your skull! Or, without it you can blast 100x the power through your skull trying to blast the signal through your thick walls and 50 houses on the way to the tower 2 miles away... your choice!
dhudson1984

join:2008-01-04
Charleston, WV

Motorola 8100 Series

I have AT&T and plan on switching to Verizon when my contract ends next year. I am planning on buying the Motorola 8100 (router/access point/femtocell in one) when they release them. Would I be able to get it to work if I go ahead and buy it?