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story category We Still Need Better Broadband Data
Investment bills once again fail to map coverage gaps...
(old news - 08:35AM Tuesday Feb 10 2009)
tags: coverage · business · stats
Drew Clark (who we've interviewed several times about his efforts to obtain accurate broadband mapping data) writes an editorial for Ars Technica exploring the need for transparency when it comes to investing in broadband infrastructure. While the last few weeks has seen discussion of how broadband should be defined and how much money we should throw at it -- less discussed is the fact that we still don't really know who has it. Clark's been trying for several years now to get access to fundamental carrier data, but both incumbent operators and the FCC have fought him tooth and nail. A renewed desire to improve our broadband fortunes is a new opportunity to change this, but the latest Senate and House bills again fail on this front, says Clark.

Related:
  1. Tuesday Morning Links
  2. Scott Cleland: Google Using 21x The Bandwidth They Pay For
  3. 19% Of Dial-Up Users Say They'll Never Use Broadband
  4. Seattle Tops Forbes List Of 'Most Wired' Cities
  5. 2009: U.S. Finally Decides It Needs Broadband Plan
  6. U.S. Still Fifteenth In Broadband Penetration
  7. Newsflash: FCC Shows Interest In....Factual Broadband Data
  8. 5 Signs Our Broadband Plan May Already Be In Trouble
Forums » We Still Need Better Broadband Data
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MalibuMaxx

join:2007-02-06
Chesterton, IN
·Comcast

tru that!

Cell phone cariers have to give you a map... why should internet availability be any different. I would like to know where my CO cuts off even if it may be every other house when it comes to the end of a loop.

All companies fail at this so far even cable co's.
They all should have a defined map and a address/phone number lookup system.

pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
·Comcast


1 edit

Already Available

Someone who really thinks this is important can go to the various carriers websites, enter address information for every possible US address, and make their own map.

Heck, if you are really smart, you can get a database of US addresses and write a script to plug them into these websites.

Here's a good starting point where you can get the availability data, right from the ISPs themselves:

»Re: Point Has Merit
--
Blagojevich / Madoff 2012!
moonpuppy

join:2000-08-21
Glen Burnie, MD

Re: Already Availble

Not always reliable. I prequalified for DSL from Verizon and had it for 3 months while having major issues. They finally did a line test and, all of a sudden, I was no longer able to get it. This is when I lived in downtown Baltimore City.

pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
·Comcast

Re: Already Available

said by moonpuppy See Profile :

Not always reliable. I prequalified for DSL from Verizon and had it for 3 months while having major issues. They finally did a line test and, all of a sudden, I was no longer able to get it. This is when I lived in downtown Baltimore City.
A government mandate isn't going to fix that.
--
Blagojevich / Madoff 2012!
moonpuppy

join:2000-08-21
Glen Burnie, MD
·Verizon Online DSL

Re: Already Available

said by pnh102 See Profile :

A government mandate isn't going to fix that.
Maybe not but we do need more truth in advertising.

pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
·Comcast

Re: Already Available

said by moonpuppy See Profile :

Maybe not but we do need more truth in advertising.
Broadband availability data isn't advertising though. As for ads in general, most for ISPs state clearly that the service isn't available in all areas.
--
Blagojevich / Madoff 2012!
lesopp

join:2001-06-27
Land O Lakes, FL

1 edit
Is that a desire for the truth before or after Porkulus Prime lays another trillion in debt on the people?
moonpuppy

join:2000-08-21
Glen Burnie, MD
·Verizon Online DSL

Re: Already Available

said by lesopp See Profile :

Is that a desire for the truth before or after Porkulus Prime lays another trillion in debt on the people?
Do not question the Messiah or you will be found and dealt with.

Core0000
Premium
join:2008-05-04
Somerset, KY

Re: Already Availble

I just wanted to say I agree with you there, on the unreliability bit, to some degree.
nasadude

join:2001-10-05
Rockville, MD
·Comcast

Re: Already Available

said by pnh102 See Profile :

Someone who really thinks this is important can go to the various carriers websites, enter address information for every possible US address, and make their own map....
BS. The publicly available data for the major ISPs is crap and they do it on purpose. Their stated concern is "letting their competition know" their footprint, but that's BS too.

They don't want anybody to know where broadband is available, because it would become painfully obvious that at best we have a non-competitive or marginally competitive duopoly market. The more they can muddy these waters, the easier it is for them to sling their "competitive market" BS.

I say start charging them big $$$ for their right of way access until they cough up the data.

pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD

Re: Already Available

Again.

The information is there.

If someone is that hot and bothered to compile this information, let them do it on their nickel.
--
Blagojevich / Madoff 2012!
nasadude

join:2001-10-05
Rockville, MD

Re: Already Available

BS again.

pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
·Comcast

Re: Already Available

said by nasadude See Profile :

BS again.
Fine.

Here we go again:
FIOS lookup by address: »www22.verizon.com/fiosforhome/ch···ntry.asp

Verizon DSL lookup by address: »www22.verizon.com/content/consum···ress.htm

AT&T DSL lookup by address:
»https://swot.sbc.com/swot/canIOrderOnlin···ocessDSL

QWest DSL lookup by address:
»www.qwest.com/residential/intern···ual.html

I decided to bother with looking up the links for Cable ISPs as well as some people had griped that I had missed that. I regret the omission.

Cox - »https://secure.cox.com/service/offers/av···ces.aspx

Comcast - (FINALLY) »https://www.comcast.com/Localization/Loc···x&area=6

Time Warner's websites are state specific.
Now if you want, you can offer someone who is interested a fair amount of cash to enter address data into these sites to get availability information. But the fact remains these sites work just fine for most people and are more than adequate for our needs.
--
Blagojevich / Madoff 2012!
decifal

join:2007-03-10
Bon Aqua, TN

screw it

Lets just close down the internet.. If we all can't have it, why should anyone else... I read of services like netflix's doing good and would love to be able to use them.. But my only broadband options are satellite and a sketchy EVDO service in my area thats capped at 5 gig.. Some would argue that even through mellinecom (( spelling? )) that the service has a soft cap at 5 gigs, but not highly enforced..

Yes, everyone and their cousins uncle could move into the city.. But then everyone would be complaining/bitching about the overpopulation and your services even would suffer.. I'm not talking about running fiber 30 miles for one house people.. Theres a buttload of us not being serviced due to the simple Unprofitable excuse and the follow up with "if you don't like it, move" routine.. I can promise you this.. If your house suddenly wasn't eligible for broadband, you'd cry to anyone you could to get it back.. Satellite isn't real, evdo is hampered by trees too much.. We can't just go out and start killing trees just to get a signal, its irresponsible and destroys natural landscape in general..

Private industry has had its chance to reach the people it wish's to service.. Broadband is becoming to be a much useful/needed service to many (( those of you that argue, please disconnect now then )). And more services would be used if more people were able to utilize them.. I rather throw 25 billion tax dollars at real infrastructure than AIG again.. That money could've done great things... Instead it purchased some CEO and his crooney's golden parachutes....
lesopp

join:2001-06-27
Land O Lakes, FL

Re: screw it

Isn't »snltranscripts.jt.org/comcast-ca···-tn.html an option?

screavic
Premium
join:2006-08-11
Paron, AR
·Verizon Wireless B..
·Alltel Axess

Re: screw it

Why does everyone who makes a comment about EVDO someone has to trail it with "Isn't comcast available". I can google Comcast Paron, AR and everyone can say I get it except Comcast.

Comcast isn't everywhere even though the "internet says it is". One big red flag, that is a "Comcast Authorized Retailer" but yet they generated a webpage "comcast-bon-aqua-tn.html" for almost every address they can think of so they can grab sales.
decifal

join:2007-03-10
Bon Aqua, TN


1 edit
said by lesopp See Profile :

Isn't »snltranscripts.jt.org/comcast-ca···-tn.html an option?
Nope Comcast is not an option.. They try to fill in maps like the connectTN program with claims they service my area.. But they do not.. They are around, but not in our area here.. Its all misrepresenting coverage..

Btw, I acted like I was ordering just so if nothing else.. It will waste someone's time.. Being mine is being wasted looking for coverage If anyone that works for comcast wants to PM me feel free.. Theres a huge area thats being missed by both you and the death star.

WiseOldNerd
De gustibus non est disputandum
Premium
join:2001-11-25
Phoenix, AZ
·Cox HSI
·Qwest.net
·Charter Pipeline

Change Way of Thinking

Root cause of the problem is the continuing perception that communication systems (telephone, internet and yes TV) are nice things to have rather than necessities of the 21st century. We should be seeing them as utilities like water and electricity, and running and regulating appropriately.

Yes we can survive without them, but we seriously limit ourselves and our country and our economy when we don't have wide ranging, reasonably priced communication systems available. Whether we can ever cause the elected hookers in Congress and statehouses to awaken to today's realities is a major issue that impacts whether or not we will EVER improve the systems. Free markets aren't and state run systems tend to be contaminated by the bureaucracy; but investor owned, regulated utilities have worked well for years. Communicators of the world unite, you have nothing to loose but the corporate shackles.
--
My perception is REALITY

major marco
Res Firma Mitescere Nescit
Premium
join:2003-02-13
Stepford, CA
clubs:

Re: Change Way of Thinking

said by WiseOldNerd See Profile :

We should be seeing them as utilities like water and electricity, and running and regulating appropriately.
That will never happen as long as Comcrap et al. have deep pockets and sleazy politicians eager to dip into those pockets. As long as the U.S. government is for sale, we will continue to have the best government money can buy.
--
The Toll

Tracking Lord Stanley

Tails

join:2007-09-25
Sanford, NC
·Windstream

Re: Change Way of Thinking

Why don't you prove that?

Give me some hard evidence that our government has been "bought out" and you MIGHT have some credibility.

I'm tired of people who spout stuff they hear.
--
Do or do not, there is no try! - Yoda

pepe318319420132

@comcast.net

1 edit

Re: Change Way of Thinking

"Bought out" isn't to be used in the absolute sense, but relatively speaking, it's an accurate descriptor.

-Pedro

Richard B
Fur It Up

join:2007-06-22
Portland, OR
we not paying for your Internet. period. get a job.

GoingLikeSixty

@bgmu.com

Absolutely agree.

But before that... the term "broadband" should just go away.
According to the FCC, the term “broadband” now means 768Kbps! thats K as in Kilobytes!

To most people "broadband" would mean at least "cable" speeds of 5-10 MEGABITS per second. Europe is 50, going to 100 MBPS. Japan and Korea are trying for Terrabytes per second.

Please stop using "broadband" as if it is some desirable end. It is an insult and a disservice to readers.

Change internet access to public utility
As OP said, it used to be that law enforcement, fire protection, roads and bridges were privately owned.
This is how access to the web needs to be viewed today.

Municipalities should buy their local cablecos. If they don't sell, don't renew the franchise agreement. Then internet access can be provided to all residents and be supported by tax dollars.

Treat access to fast internet like infrastructure: if a city wants to grow they use tax money to build an industrial park. If they choose not to grow, they sit on their hands.

Somnambul33t
L33t.
Premium
join:2002-12-05
Mullica Hill, NJ
clubs:
·Comcast

nerd

maybe im just a huge nerd but i move to a house based on the available broadband...got comcast blast! 16/2 right now and loving it...

no i dont move to get better internet, but when im looking for a place, the 1st thing i do is check comcast/verizon.

pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
·Comcast

Re: nerd

said by Somnambul33t See Profile :

no i dont move to get better internet, but when im looking for a place, the 1st thing i do is check comcast/verizon.
According to some people here, that's impossible, because those providers "don't let you see availability data."
--
Blagojevich / Madoff 2012!

Boogeyman
Drive it like you stole it
Premium
join:2002-12-17
Huntsville, AL

Re: nerd

Its impossible to get a reliable answer. Not that the info isnt available, its that it isnt accurate.

~2000 Littleton, CO, Qwest - Website and support rep both confirm service availability at address. both were incorrect.

~2001 Panama City, FL, Bellsouth - Website and support rep both deny service availability at address, 3 hours later different rep calls asking if we would like to add DSL to our phone service. (And it was still 3mo untill the website showed availability)

~2001 Panama City, FL, Comcast - No mention on website of available service at address, Rep at local office isnt sure.

~2005 Panama City, FL, Comcast - No mention of what service tiers are available in the area, spent 1hr on phone with local office to get an answer.

~2005 Panama City, FL, Bellsouth - No info on website or from service rep about what services are offered at address.

~2008 Huntsville, AL, Comcast - Clerks in office arent sure what speeds are offered. They said one was $50 and one was $60, we took the $60 and hoped it meant 8/1.

Just because they say they offer service doesnt mean they person who told you that, or that put it on the website, knows what they are talking about. Mainly because no one has bothered mapping coverage accurately, instead of relying on the best guess system we have now.

Could you imagine if food delivery was run this way? You call to ask if they deliver and they say "I dunno" or "Order the pizza and we'll see if the delivery guy can get out that far".
--
Im Your Boogeyman, Thats What I Am

pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD

Re: nerd

Shrug. I've moved all over the place and never had a problem. Guess you're just unlucky.
--
Blagojevich / Madoff 2012!
SuperWISP

join:2007-04-17
Laramie, WY

Competitors, especially small ones, must be protected too

Drew's article is incorrect when it says that the FCC will not share information about deployment. What the FCC has declined to do -- and it's correct in doing so -- is share detailed information which providers submitted to it in confidence. When the providers submitted detailed information about their coverage areas and numbers of subscribers, they were promised that this information, which could enable anticompetitive tactics, would not be released. The FCC is right to honor its promise. If it revealed the confidential data, no broadband provider would ever trust it again, and broadband deployment would be hurt by the anticompetitive tactics that would surely follow. Many smaller providers would simply decline to reveal their proprietary information, hurting any effort to perform a "census." For more on this, see the FCC's explanation at

»projects.publicintegrit...ent%20···acts.pdf

(which, incidentally, was filed in a case where Drew sued to try to get providers' proprietary data from the FCC via an FOIA request).
Forums » We Still Need Better Broadband Data


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