site Search:


 
   
story category
Webcasters Avoid Royalty Armageddon
New deal with copyright owners saves Internet radio...
by Karl Bode Wednesday 08-Jul-2009 tags: Radio · business · content
Tipped by KrK See Profile
For years, online radio outfits were worried that aggressive royalty payment structures designed by the entertainment industry could force them out of business. For now, at least, it appears that those worries are over. After two years of negotiations between webcasters and copyright holders, the new deal has large webcasters paying copyright owners up to 25% of their revenue or a "per-performance" rate that's supposedly 40-50% lower than those previously set by the Copyright Royalty Board. Smaller webcasters will also pay either a percent of revenue or a percent of expenses. "For us, it's hard to overstate how significant this is," Pandora founder Tim Westergren says of the deal. "It was either this or an ugly alternative."

view: topics flat text 
Post a:

ptrowski
Got Helix?
Premium
join:2005-03-14
Putnam, CT
kudos:4

Pandora is great...

I am so glad to see they will be able to stick around. Pandora is a great application I use at home, the office, and on the iPhone.

tenpin784
I Went To The Dark Side?

join:2001-03-30
New Durham, NH

Re: Pandora is great...

I am listening to Pandora right now @ work. If my ATT coverage was better on the ride home, I would listen to it then too.

elios

join:2005-11-15
Springfield, MO

Re: Pandora is great...

this is good the small station i DJ for is thinking about going legit we do anime and jpop stuff
it would cost us maybe 30 bucks a month to do so now we can live with this
kuzzle

join:2007-07-27
Richmond, ME

Re: Pandora is great...

Anyone one else get the email from Pandora?

IT Guy
Ow, My Balls
Premium
join:2004-07-29
Las Cruces, NM
Reviews:
·Comcast

Re: Pandora is great...

Yeah, I did... They said they are implementing a monthly cap of 40 hrs. per month or for $0.99 per month, they will lift the cap OR I can upgrade to Pandora One for $36 a year. I'm good with all options, I'm just broke right now. Apparently they only sent this notice out to heavy users such as myself.
--
My time is a piece of wax, falling on a termite, that's choking on a splinter. --Beck

Romney2012
Defeat Obama 2012-Chg we can believe in
Premium
join:2002-03-03
USA
kudos:4

Re: Pandora is great...

said by IT Guy:

Yeah, I did... They said they are implementing a monthly cap of 40 hrs. per month or for $0.99 per month, they will lift the cap OR I can upgrade to Pandora One for $36 a year. I'm good with all options, I'm just broke right now. Apparently they only sent this notice out to heavy users such as myself.
Here is their blog entry:
»blog.pandora.com/pandora/
The revised royalties are quite high - higher in fact than any other form of radio. As a consequence, we will have to make an adjustment that will affect about 10% of our users who are our heaviest listeners. Specifically, we are going to begin limiting listening to 40 hours per month on the free version of Pandora. In any given month, a listener who hits this limit can then opt for unlimited listening for the remainder of that month for just $0.99.

--
My BLOG .. .. Internet News .. .. My Web Page
iansltx

join:2007-02-19
Golden, CO
kudos:2
Agreed. Pandora is rather awesome. They do a good job at what they do, and I'm glad they're sticking around.
Test99
Premium
join:2003-04-24
San Jose, CA
kudos:1
»www.pandora.com/
Ikarasu

join:2004-01-09
Port Coquitlam, BC
Reviews:
·TekSavvy Cable

Nice... but what about Canada?

While this is nice for Pandora... I cant help but be a little bit selfish...

When will Canada see Pandora again? (I know all about proxys, Hotshields, ect ect, but the point is... It's stupid when America/Canada cant stream stuff to eachother).

Ever since this first started... I thought "This must be a mistake... its Canada...we're practically the same country, soon Pandora will be available for Canadians" boy was I wrong :\

Feels like the RIAA is flipping us off because our lack of "protecting" their copyrights >_>

Sarah
Premium,ExMod 2002-05
join:2001-01-09
Cambridge, MA
kudos:5

The coverage on this is very strange

Every site I've read except one or two fringe sites is lauding this as a huge victory for web radio.

Didn't anyone notice the part about the $25,000 annual minimum fee? This will kill off every small webcaster in the nation. Pandora has just wiped their competition off the map.

Yay for the little guy

said by »www.guardian.co.uk/music/2009/ju···treaming :
The new model offers different licences depending on the size of the company. Sites earning less than $1.25m (£775,000) in annual revenue will pay up to 14% of revenue in exchange for streaming rights. Larger companies, like Pandora, will pay either 25% of revenue or 0.08 cents (0.05p) per song. This per-song fee will rise to 0.14 cents (0.09p) in 2015. All licensed websites will pay a minimum annual fee of $25,000 (£15,500).
--
Join the DSLR Kiva team!

moon1234

@tds.net

Re: The coverage on this is very strange

Lets see them try to collect from independant artists! These jokers need to drop off the face of the earth. They act like they are the Mob and are Loan Sharking.

pokesph
It Is Almost Fast
Premium
join:2001-06-25
Sacramento, CA
kudos:1
said by Sarah:

Every site I've read except one or two fringe sites is lauding this as a huge victory for web radio.

Didn't anyone notice the part about the $25,000 annual minimum fee? This will kill off every small webcaster in the nation. Pandora has just wiped their competition off the map.

Yay for the little guy

said by »www.guardian.co.uk/music/2009/ju···treaming :
The new model offers different licences depending on the size of the company. Sites earning less than $1.25m (£775,000) in annual revenue will pay up to 14% of revenue in exchange for streaming rights. Larger companies, like Pandora, will pay either 25% of revenue or 0.08 cents (0.05p) per song. This per-song fee will rise to 0.14 cents (0.09p) in 2015. All licensed websites will pay a minimum annual fee of $25,000 (£15,500).
I hear ya there.. us small-timers have NO way of meeting that amount.. ever.

There REALLY needs to be a small / hobby webcaster class that is AFFORDABLE by the common man who earns no money off their webcasting.

ITS STRAIGHT UP GREED. PERIOD.
--
Webmaster - Steve
- - - - - - - - - - - -
»www.1-gb.net
»www.ppnstudio.com

DataDoc
My avatar looks like me, if I was 2D.
Premium
join:2000-05-14
Greenville, NC

1 edit

Artist don't get radio fees, songwriters do

ASCAP, BMI and SESAC fees are distributed only among the writers and publishers of the song. An artist only benefits if he/she wrote the song.
--
"You see what you want to see, and you hear what you want to hear" - The Rockman

BF69
Premium
join:2004-07-28
Camden, TN

Re: Artist don't get radio fees, songwriters do

said by DataDoc:

ASCAP, BMI and SESAC fees are distributed only among the writers and publishers of the song. An artist only benefits if he/she wrote the song.
That's where the money has ALWAYS been in music and the smart artists make sure they get a writting credit.

I Use Dial

join:2004-01-04
Morgan Hill, CA

Yay, Government allows some webcasters a modestly huge fee

This is a transaction between two private parties for use of private property. I can't even fathom the attempt to justify Government involvement.
--
Time... beckoning me.
hoyleysox

join:2003-11-07
Long Beach, CA

So what does this mean for the little guys?

Are the internet radio stations that have $0 revenue going to have to pay to play?

David
Now accepting new patients
Premium,VIP
join:2002-05-30
Granite City, IL
kudos:70
Reviews:
·AT&T Southwest
·DIRECTV
·AT&T Midwest
·Google Voice

Thank you guys!!

said by ptrowski:

I am so glad to see they will be able to stick around. Pandora is a great application I use at home, the office, and on the iPhone.
said by iansltx:

Agreed. Pandora is rather awesome. They do a good job at what they do, and I'm glad they're sticking around.
said by IT Guy:

Yeah, I did... They said they are implementing a monthly cap of 40 hrs. per month or for $0.99 per month, they will lift the cap OR I can upgrade to Pandora One for $36 a year. I'm good with all options, I'm just broke right now. Apparently they only sent this notice out to heavy users such as myself.
All I can say is thank you guys! I just signed up today. I created my "metallica" station. . Since OTA Radio stations here are just about as extinct as the dinosaurs (probably because of the computers and such). Radio here is just about at a shut out short of just a few stations that can penetrate the building. You can get Y98.1FM and barely z107.7. KSHE penetrates good but every now and then they get off on a tangent and I turn them off. Now I have an alternative and thanks!
--
If you have a topic in the direct forum please reply to it or a post of mine, I get a notification when you do this.
Koetting Ford, Granite City, illinois... YOU'RE FIRED!!

shoegazer
Premium
join:2009-06-22
Las Vegas, NV

Re: Thank you guys!!

if you got a hp laptop goto hp mediasmart then music then pandora,much nicer. im up to 40 stations i guess thats why i got the e-mail yesterday saying i was now on the meter.i got way more music then i could ever listen to. and i even bought 3 new cds from stuff i heard from one 1 of my stations (frou frou).i still goto last.fm for the music videos..
qworster

join:2001-11-25
Bryn Mawr, PA

This deal $UCK$!!!

This deal sucks! First off, you have to pay 25 grand to just be allowed to play...THEN you have to pay 25% of your GROSS revenues to them!

Sure, the 'big boys' like pandora like it , but everyone else gets SCREWED!

KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK
Reviews:
·AT&T DSL Service

Re: This deal $UCK$!!!

Well, I think it's a minimum $25,000k.

IE you pay a % of revenue assuming you exceed $25,000 a year.

If your % of revenue is under $25,000 a year, you still have to pay the minimum.

So for small outfits, this is bad.

I didn't read it as you pay $25,000 PLUS 25%. I think the $25,000 number is rolled into the % as long as you make enough.
--
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." -- Benito Mussolini
gorehound

join:2009-06-19
Portland, ME

sick if ig studios

This not a victory it is a screwjob by the same old players........
the assholes who are there to milk us of money.
BIG CORPORATE LABELS & THE RIAA

little guys will be forced out so a few big players can still exist and they will be forced to charge money and it is all BS.these shyster studios get free advertisement evertime one of their krap sell-out artists got played.

when will foks finally stop buying music from any large label and/or any artist who signs with the RIAA.
and why does the internet radio stations pay the money and play the krap.

there are thousands of artists who would be glad for any kind of airtime and they will never charge a dime.
i play in 2 bands and both will never charge money for airtime
mc5w

join:2002-06-14
Independence, OH

Alternative

But, there is just enough copyright expired music out there that an Internet radio station could get away with not paying royalties. That is the state of affairs in ballroom dancing if you want to push back. Ascap and Bmi will not touch the smaller ballrooms and studios because they don't want to get any publicity to the effect of, " I don't have to play your stuff. "

Only a small amount of ballroom recordings that are copyright expired but it is much like how Cleveland Public Power does electrical contracting for FREE ( electrical services and house rewires ) and that affected how much I could charge outside of City of Cleveland even though CPP does not outside the city limits except possibly a small corner of Newburgh Heights.

I bitch about how Cleveland Public Power is doing my work for FREE but the only thing I could really do about it was to move in with my sister in Marysville, Ohio.

One of the reasons why rock and roll bands write their own music is because they do not want to have to pay somebody else.

SmackWeasel

join:2008-01-02
kudos:1

Re: Alternative

The big alternative to royalties and the new guidelines would be university radio streams. I'm not talking about National Public Radio BTW. I mean the mostly one-off experimental, avant-guard, or obscure music play lists. I believe but am not certain that theses streams are exempt.
--
0111000001100101011000010110001101100101

Sunday, 03-Jun 12:53:53 Terms of Use & Privacy | feedback | contact | Hosting by nac.net - DSL,Hosting & Co-lo
over 12.5 years online © 1999-2012 dslreports.com.