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West Virginia Wants Rural Wireless
Coverage and connections in the state remain poor
by KathrynV Sunday 28-Sep-2008 tags: fcc · wireless · stats
A new report regarding cell phone coverage in West Virginia has found that an overwhelming majority of residents feel that rural coverage is of utmost importance and is a pressing need that should be taken seriously by the local government.

Some of the statistics that were uncovered during a recent poll in the state include:

• More than 90% of residents feel that rural cell phone coverage is important for both personal reasons and public safety reasons.
• Almost 80% of people responding to the poll have problems with dropped calls or poor call quality in the state.
• About 70% would approve of the use of USF funds for expanding and improving coverage in the state.
• Approximately 50% of people would choose a quality wireless connection over a landline connection if they could only choose one or the other. And “many” would prefer a high quality wireless connection to a quality landline broadband connection.
• “More than half also oppose Federal Communications Commission (FCC) proposals that would diminish support for rural wireless by nearly 50 percent, jeopardizing public safety and economic development in smaller communities.”

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CaptainRR
Premium
join:2006-04-21
Blue Rock, OH

US Cellular???

I dont think anyone that took the pole knows about this:
»www.uscc.com/uscellular/SilverSt···ss080303

pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD

Pathetic

quote:
A new report regarding cell phone coverage in West Virginia has found that an overwhelming majority of residents feel that rural coverage is of utmost importance and is a pressing need that should be taken seriously by the local government.
What are they waiting for? Go build it!

Pretty sad how so many people now wait for the government to do everything for them.
--
"At the moment of conception."

DougRing

@sbcglobal.net

Re: Pathetic

I seem to recall that at one time our nation was a representative democracy, with the 'people' directing actions of government, including expenditures for infrastructure.

Perhaps the people of W. Virginia will direct their government to spend their money to build a communications system, rather than spend their money to appease a corporation.
nasadude

join:2001-10-05
Rockville, MD
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
said by pnh102:



What are they waiting for? Go build it!

Pretty sad how so many people now wait for the government to do everything for them.
where are they going to get the spectrum? the FCC keeps allowing the incumbents (for the major part) to suck up any and all spectrum.

so if the incumbents that own the spectrum aren't interested in providing service in their area, how do you propose they "Go build it!"?

just askin

pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD

Re: Pathetic

said by nasadude:

just askin
How did Ford invent the assembly line process?

How did Bell invent the phone?

How did Edison invent the light bulb?

How did Carnegie build the domestic steel industry?

People can do things if they really want to. Why should the government be expected to do this?
--
"At the moment of conception."

tubbynet
reminds me of the danse russe
Premium,MVM
join:2008-01-16
Chandler, AZ

Re: Pathetic

and how did ma bell set up a system of interconnected lines for phone service?

oh yeah...thats right...
nasadude

join:2001-10-05
Rockville, MD
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
I will type slowly so you understand.

they need licensed spectrum (as far as I know).

they don't have and can't get licensed spectrum because it's mostly (entirely?) owned by the incumbents, who don't give a sh1t about WVa.

are you suggesting they defy the laws of the U.S. and illegally use licensed spectrum? I assume you certainly don't want them to "beg" the government for spectrum. Maybe they should kidnap the CEOs of the incumbents and hold them for spectrum ransom. That's taking the initiative.

DownTheShore
Just Say No To Newts
Premium
join:2003-12-02
Beautiful NJ
kudos:10

Re: Pathetic

I was in Morgantown WV last winter with my nephew, checking out WVU. We were in the same hotel room, yet his Verizon phone got no signal, while my AT&T phone connected.

The US govt. has a tendency to make rural projects governmental ones, because the private companies don't see enough profit in it. TVA, anyone?
--
Patriotism is not waving a flag, it is living the ideals

pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
said by nasadude:

they need licensed spectrum (as far as I know).
I guess there will be no wireless broadband for WV then, until of course, the government comes and gives it to that state.
--
"At the moment of conception."
nnaarrnn

join:2004-09-30
Nitro, WV
Reviews:
·Sprint Mobile Br..
I think its more of the government requiring the cellcos to expand service, not build the service. The government (paid for by the people) is the only entity that can do that. I know that if I (paid for by just me) went to the cellco and demanded they expand coverage, they'd just laugh at me. I pay taxes to an entity that is supposed to be doing what's in MY best interest, and if there's something that a corporation cant/wont do then the entity I pay my taxes to needs to step in and make something happen. It's not "waiting" for the government to help us, it's asking the government to do their fckin jobs.

ThrowDemsOut
If you can't convince 'em, confuse 'em
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Mullica Hill, NJ
kudos:4

Obama wants more rural broadband thru USF fees

“More than half also oppose Federal Communications Commission (FCC) proposals that would diminish support for rural wireless by nearly 50 percent, jeopardizing public safety and economic development in smaller communities.”
Then these people will like Obama's proposal:
»blog.wired.com/business/2008/09/···for.html
Obama's idea, as described in his technology plan, is to take some of the tax money being used right now to subsidize rural phone use and, instead, use it to subsidize rural broadband use.
I think they should kill off the USF fees altogether and not use it for broadband or anything else.
--
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Zorack

join:2001-12-14
Fayetteville, WV

Re: Obama wants more rural broadband thru USF fees

I don't think anything by McPain is any better.

pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD

Re: Obama wants more rural broadband thru USF fees

said by Zorack:

I don't think anything by McPain is any better.
Why should people expect the government to provide them with internet to begin with? If people want internet they should build it themselves... without government.
--
"At the moment of conception."

tubbynet
reminds me of the danse russe
Premium,MVM
join:2008-01-16
Chandler, AZ

Re: Obama wants more rural broadband thru USF fees

pretty easy to say that when people already have what they want...
when you have corporations only interested in the bottom line and not seeing the right roi on their deployment, you have essentially shafted a group of people. you say that people should "build their own", but what dictates that this group of people knows how to deploy large scale wisp or cellular networks? above and beyond that - logistics and cost of entry is enormous and prohibitive almost everybody except for those that have the outright capital at hand (namely corporations or the government).

amazing that all of the neo-cons on here rant and rave about government involvement with an "i've got mine, i don't care about yours" attitude. nobody wants socialism because we will "pay too much in taxes and not get anything in return", but who is to say that if we go strictly capitalist (with *no* government involvement) that a corporation that is looking strictly at the bottom line will help the consumers any more?

q.

pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD

Re: Obama wants more rural broadband thru USF fees

Who said anything about socialism? There's nothing stopping private citizens from making their own private investments and building their own network privately.
--
"At the moment of conception."
nnaarrnn

join:2004-09-30
Nitro, WV

Re: Obama wants more rural broadband thru USF fees

yeah, except the pesky spectrum that you cant get your hands on due to the incumbents owning it all, and the lobbying so that joe-average-guy can't compete with them.

wifi4milez
Big Russ, 1918 to 2008. Rest in Peace

join:2004-08-07
New York, NY

Re: Obama wants more rural broadband thru USF fees

I think people are overlooking a major piece of information here. There are "cellular" carriers operating in these areas of WV. Those carriers do have the spectrum needed (obviously) to serve customers in that geographic area. Clearly, they dont want to spend the money to put up a new tower in a very rural area with at most a handful of (possible) subscribers. Instead of whining about wanting the government to do something about this, the rural folks should do something proactive about the issue. My suggestion would be that they find out how many people in the area actually want/need more coverage. Perhaps they could get a petition together, and assuming they get more than 10 people to sign it they can send it to the local "cellular" provider and ask THEM to add another tower.

Why is it that the knee jerk reaction many people on this site have to any business related situation is to whine to the government about it??
--
If history teaches us anything, it teaches that simple-minded appeasement or wishful thinking about our adversaries is folly.
-Ronald Reagan-

Duramax08
Ya rly.
Premium
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San Antonio, TX
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Click for full size
"If people want internet they should build it themselves... without government."

Got any plans so i can build internets so I can get faster internets out here? Guess I cant get a loan from the FCC to start internets over here even though they got fiber 1 mile away from me...... Also if you were going to say "well its ur fault u moved where you dont get fast internets LOL". Actually, my grandparents bought this house 50 years ago. We got it when they passed away. I dont think there was high speed internet back in the days so dont even go there. We are not even a mile away from the city limits of san antonio. Last time i checked san antonio was one of the top 10 biggest cities in the USA. I thought we would have better services that would make our lifes easier but i guess we wont make progress on the internet game. Just look where we are. Where is the united states? North america also includes canada just to let you know.
--
»live.xbox.com/member/Duramax08

pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD

Re: Obama wants more rural broadband thru USF fees

But again, why should private investors finance their own network? Most cell phone companies and ISPs paid for their infrastructure using subscriber fees, why can't the people of WV do the same?
--
"At the moment of conception."
nnaarrnn

join:2004-09-30
Nitro, WV
Reviews:
·Sprint Mobile Br..

Re: Obama wants more rural broadband thru USF fees

you answered your own question. They pay for their infrastructure using subscriber fees, but they're not doing that here. They're just reaping the profits.

I do know that the death star added 27 "cell sites" over the past couple years, but they still have the slowest, poorest coverage around here.
dsless

join:2001-05-16
Pittsburgh, PA

Re: Obama wants more rural broadband thru USF fees

Poca Was not wired with cable for internet till 2002-2003. As least you can get DSL in Nitro.
nnaarrnn

join:2004-09-30
Nitro, WV

Re: Obama wants more rural broadband thru USF fees

yeah, except this article is about cell coverage.
dsless

join:2001-05-16
Pittsburgh, PA

Re: Obama wants more rural broadband thru USF fees

Yea, my verizon land line in Poca was terrible but the ATT service was pretty good. Until you when down the other side of the hill from the golf course.
nnaarrnn

join:2004-09-30
Nitro, WV

Re: Obama wants more rural broadband thru USF fees

yeah, out that road, Sprint/Alltel/Verizon/Ntelos (CDMA) is the only service that works.
jc100

join:2002-04-10
And if people want education they should pay for it as I told Texan. Why bother with Tax Payer Subsidized anything.. O crap, 700 billion is funding Big Business soon. I guess that one kind of went out the window. Bush Mismanagement = Tax Payer Nightmare. Back to rant.

- You can read and write. I guess you got through k-12 education somewhere in the U.S? Let me guess, your PARENTS did not pay for the teacher's salaries, school operational costs, and text books. If you went to a public school, ALL tax payers SOCIALIZED your education. Meaning, even if your school had 1000 students, 30 teachers, and cost 5 million to operate. It was NOT just those parents of the 1000 kids paying the bill. It was the ENTIRE COMMUNITY, State, Federal Government doing so. IE, Unless you want a system where those 1000 parents split the "5 million bill here", then you are socialized. Otherwise, tax payers from your city, state, and all over the U.S. have paid taxes that funded your education.

Will you be cutting them a BIG FAT check to return that money?

How about roads. You like driving on them, I imagine. Well Socialized again. I mean, I don't see you giving Tax payers a SECOND HUGE check. Roads were socialized. Not only was my money used, yours and everyone elses got put into the pot. That's the definition of SOCIALISM. Therefore, please BUILD YOUR OWN ROADS. Socialism is bad. Otherwise, please reimburse the other tax payers or pay a fee every time you drive on a road. Sound good?

Second check in the mail will be sent when?

Last, how about Medical Care. You enjoy nice drugs when you get sick. Please don't. Tax Payer money SOCIALIZED the research that went into finding them. After all Universities, Hospitals, etc all receive tax payer money. Will you be paying the FULL COST of the drug you take (not the insurance rate) the Billion plus to find that drug? I fathom not. Strange, but you enjoy using medicine.

So where will you get the 3rd check from. You MUST be broke from the 0s found in checks 1 and 2.

Long story short, people should do things on their own. However, government is also needed when other parties fail.

pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD

Re: Obama wants more rural broadband thru USF fees

Yawn. So again, why should taxpayers pay for someone's luxury service?

Education is actually an important service provided by state and local government. Considering that many public schools suck, perhaps government should fix that before they screw the pooch on a luxury wireless or broadband service?

As for roads, these are all paid by user fees. All of the taxes, tolls and other fees used to finance roads are voluntary. If someone doesn't drive they do not pay for them.

As for socialized medicine, I will believe this is a better system once people from the USA start going in droves to Canada, Europe or Cuba for the "free" healthcare offered there. Hopefully, they won't come back.
--
"At the moment of conception."
nnaarrnn

join:2004-09-30
Nitro, WV
Reviews:
·Sprint Mobile Br..

Re: Obama wants more rural broadband thru USF fees

I dont see how being able to have a choice of service provider (landline vs wireless) is a luxury. There's 200 million people that seem to have that choice, and chose wireless. Why shouldn't people in more rural areas have that choice?

I dont know about roads in Maryland, but here in WV, the roads are paid for from general taxes. If you have a job, you're paying for the roads. Yes, there are a couple of toll booths on the turnpike, and our state capitol city of Charleston ILLEGALLY forces a user fee on anyone who works there, but for any road outside of Charleston and the turnpike, EVERYONE pays for regardless if they drive or not.
jc100

join:2002-04-10
A) Education is Socialized. Cutting a Check or Refund back to tax payers for your education.

B) Everyone pays for roads. Everyone pays taxes. Wrong again bud. License Plates aren't the only thing that go to maintaining roads. All tax dollars are used to help out there. Socialized again. Whether or not you drive, you fund the roads that are built and construction to maintain. Writing another BIG CHECK?

C) Good, since you hate socialized medicine, DON'T get prescriptions. You can go to the doctor but not get the cure. After all, Tax payer money HELPED socialize the research on MANY drugs we see today. Good enough. You can have your diagnosis but not the method to fix!

John Galt
Forward, March
Premium
join:2004-09-30
Happy Camp
kudos:2
said by pnh102:

said by Zorack:

I don't think anything by McPain is any better.
Why should people expect the government to provide them with internet to begin with?
Perhaps because the people already paid for it...??

From the document:

You're owed money. We estimate that you are owed over $2000.00 per household for a fiber optic broadband network service you have yet to receive and for other overcharging from your local Bell phone company — SBC, Verizon, BellSouth and US West. It is impossible to tell the exact amount in your state without audits.

This is the true tale of one of the largest scandals in US history.

We will attempt to show how America entrusted the phone companies with our fiber optic Digital Future and we were taken to the cleaners. It not only cost you and everyone you know a significant sum of money, but it has also harmed our entire economy. It is the reason America is not first in broadband in the world but 12th or 16th, depending on which international agency’s data you believe.

We estimate that the failed fiber optic deployments have cost America over $206 billion in higher phone rates, tax breaks and other financial perks to the phone companies, and it has cost the American economy an estimated $500 billion annually in loss of new growth — so far a total of about $5 trillion.

It is a tale of deceit, fraudulent data and gaming the regulatory system using fake consumer groups, biased research firms and campaign-financed politicians to control everything from the FCC, to Congress, to the state legislatures and commissions to vote for phone company-financed laws that are not in the public interest.


Read on...
--
A is A
dave
Premium,MVM
join:2000-05-04
not in ohio
kudos:7
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
·Verizon Online DSL
said by pnh102:

said by Zorack:

I don't think anything by McPain is any better.
Why should people expect the government to provide them with internet to begin with? If people want internet they should build it themselves... without government.
Right. Exactly like we do with, oh, highways for example.

knightmb
Everybody Lies

join:2003-12-01
Franklin, TN
said by pnh102:

If people want internet they should build it themselves... without government.
We try, but the government actually gets in the way a lot because of either no regulation/laws such as it keeps you stuck in limbo for approval or big companies who have lobbied the area so that only they are allowed to provide broadband. So the government ends up getting involved even when you are trying to avoid them.

Real life experience talking here.
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Pingmeister

@198.36.95.x
said by pnh102:

said by Zorack:

I don't think anything by McPain is any better.
Why should people expect the government to provide them with internet to begin with? If people want internet they should build it themselves... without government.
Well then, let's throw away everything that was ever subsidized by our government (us). Public transportation, Interstate highway system, police, military, power, New Deal, etc. If an unfettered free market can't make it happen, you just don't need it. Black and white.

It's just a little more complicated than that. Here in the US, we have much to support, and quality levels to meet. We should not expect to be able to compete on price alone, with competitors who can't or won't meet our standards. We don't want melamine in our milk.

The free market and "fair trade" are not always good, and government is not always bad. Fair trade is only fair when everyone plays by the same rules.

Sometimes, supporters of an unfettered free market forget these things. One guy owns everything at the end of a game of Monopoly. Competition disappears.

ifarrell

join:2000-08-10
Willow Spring, NC
Except 90% of WV hate Obama.
jc100

join:2002-04-10

Re: Obama wants more rural broadband thru USF fees

=). Then I say let them vote Republican and see if they ever get that broadband they are wishing for. I got a funny Hunch, they don't want the government's help if that's how they vote. But wow, we've found 700 billion to give to PRIVATE COMPANIES so tax payers can eat the cost. Amazing how that works.

knightmb
Everybody Lies

join:2003-12-01
Franklin, TN
said by ifarrell:

Except 90% of WV hate Obama.
I thought it was the other way around?

Found my source here:
»makeupfakestatsforyourneeds.com/···ama.html
--
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Click Here to pollute their data

Pingmeister

@198.36.95.x
said by ifarrell:

Except 90% of WV hate Obama.
When I was in SW WV a few weeks ago, I was surprised to see a good handful of Obama signs and few McCain signs. I'm guessing that the ratio was 4 or 5 to 1. Coal mining is still king there; ads recruiting coal miners were all over local radio. These areas appear to me to be somewhat economically depressed on the whole; lots of abandoned, crumbling houses, infrastructure in need of some TLC, abandoned businesses, rural blight, etc. Maybe in Morgantown or Huntington anti-Obama sentiment exists, but I didn't see any evidence of it there or anywhere else I was in WV.

RARPSL

join:1999-12-08
Suffern, NY

I'd like to see the Poll Text/Questions

Every time I see a report like this I want to see who ran/commissioned the poll as well as see the questions and offered responses. Without that information, it is hard to evaluate how accurate the results are. It is simple to "slant" that results by using the correct wording of the questions as well as supplying the answers to chose from in a way that will force the types of results you want (as so called "Push Poll").

rec9140
Provoice just DO it

join:2003-07-29
Mulberry, FL

RF and WV Terrain dont mix well..

You think getting cell service is tough... at 860 and 1900MHz..... hah....

Its tough and has been for quite a while to get good state wide+ coverage for something even as basic as a pager.... remember them... those things that go beeep or show a message.....

Even at 152 or 454 MHz the terrain of WV makes covering it reliably tough..for pagers or even basic public safety comms.

Theres a reason why 450/460MHZ was chosen for the state wide radio network..850MHz for public safety is a killer cost wise for the number of towers it requires with that kind of terrain.

Using the USF for this is a perfect example of a good use of those funds.
--
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keyboard5684
Sam

join:2001-08-01
Pittsburgh, PA
Reviews:
·Armstrong Zoom ..

I always get coverage

I have spent a lot of time all over West Virginia working and have had no problems with coverage. I use Sprint and never was roaming either so...

West Virginia is not that big and has the same terrain problems as Pennsylvania, where I live and deal more with RF engineering.

West Virginia always complains.

Xizer

join:2004-02-05
New York, NY
Reviews:
·Cox HSI
·AT&T U-Verse

West Virginia

Perhaps when West Virginia decides to join the 21st century, this might happen.

»www.youtube.com/watch?v=VgySDqa8zgQ

JukeBoxHero
Premium
join:2001-12-30
USA
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Comcast

Re: West Virginia

said by Xizer:

Perhaps when West Virginia decides to join the 21st century, this might happen.
Watching that video makes me want to move to West Virginia.
In Pennsylvania we have Potter County, which is similar in many ways, but WV has more natural beauty.
--
»www.obamacrimes.com/
»www.anobamanation.net/
russotto

join:2000-10-05
West Orange, NJ

Ya canna change the laws of physics...

RF propagates poorly through granite, which the hills of West Virginia are largely made of. Covering WVa therefore requires quite a lot of towers, and the low population density of most areas (not to mention the low wealth density...) might make it infeasible to cover well.
wvcaver
Premium
join:2005-04-17
Millersburg, OH

Re: Ya canna change the laws of physics...

said by russotto:

RF propagates poorly through granite, which the hills of West Virginia are largely made of. Covering WVa therefore requires quite a lot of towers, and the low population density of most areas (not to mention the low wealth density...) might make it infeasible to cover well.
you mean sandstone and limestone
impala

join:2008-03-08
Clemson, SC

how to do it:

I've visited WV twice. Beautiful place. The old joke about the state flower being the satellite dish isn't far off. Remember those big white analog dishes?

WV is like a prune with narrow curvy valleys and ridges. What a nightmare for RF coverage! The only way I can think of to economically cover it is from above. such as high altitude solar powered orbiting aircraft. They have these that can fly indefinitely, but how to power the radios? hrm.... maybe radios only work in daylight. Better than nothing.

Other mountainous places like NC, the valleys and ridges are relatively straight. Put two towers at both ends, or two on opposing ridges, and you cover most of the area. Probably about the same tower density as normal. I can see how that wouldn't work in WV.

Tweakbl

join:2008-09-25
Rosedale, WV
Reviews:
·HughesNet Satell..

I live in the heart of WV

I live in the heart of WV.
West Virginia is a poorer state financially.We do not have BIG city's.
Morgantown,Charleston,and Clarksburg are the probably the biggest.Most of rural WV has 50 to a 100 people in any square mile.In the towns 3000 to 5000 if you lucky.
I cannot get cell service unless I drive or walk back on the Hill to our big meadow.It's about a mile to the top.10 miles as the crow flys to the cell tower.
No Highspeed anything except Deer.
This topic about cell phone service can be also related to Broadband Internet.Verizon will not run new lines and such to Rosedale WV were I live,even though we took up a petition.I am currently a happily FAPPED Hughesnet Subscriber.

All I have to say about the people that say we should build it ourselves or look down there noses because somebody asks the Goverment to step in and help.They probably have all the highspeed ,cellphone connections they want,but there are people who believe, as do I ,that the goverment has an obligation to its citizens to help ensure that corporations do not leave rural citizens in the dark ages.Which by the way has something to do with "No child left behind."
Not to mention the FACT that MILLIONS of TAX dollars are spent on Crap that we the people do not "need."

Try Google Earth to see what West Virginia looks like,and to see what West Virginias are faced with.Ohio is flat,Pennsylvania is flat.You can see how it would take some money to provide any type of service.

By the way there are movements to Do it ourselves.(Not Cell Service Though)Just Internet.
West Virgina Broadband is one.
»www.wvbroadband.org/
»en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Virgi···roadband

Connect West Virginia is another.
»www.connectwestvirginia.org/

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