When FiOS And U-Verse Compete Analyst: Verizon could invade more AT&T areas Earlier this year, Verizon began laying new plant (not overbuilding) in select AT&T territories in Texas, putting FiOS in rare direct competition with U-Verse. Verizon's interest in taking FiOS outside of where they've traditionally offered copper-based services piqued plenty of people's interest. Seeing Verizon and AT&T do battle would certainly be appealing to consumers, given it would add a competitive dimension to an all-too-frequently stale duopoly system. Many believe it's simply wishful thinking. Verizon also repeatedly says their incursion into AT&T territory is very limited in scope. "I wouldn't call this a major attack on AT&T or anything like that," Verizon's Eric Rabe said when Verizon began offering FiOS in some AT&T neighborhoods in the Dalls area. "This is just taking advantage of an opportunity to sell to the rest of the town." Verizon does admits there could be other such "opportunities." At least one analysis firm thinks it could be the opening salvo in a broader war. Clifford Holliday, an analyst with Information Gatekeepers, is publishing a new report that claims Verizon will be very successful in the 10-12 Dallas communities where they're doing battle with AT&T, and will want to move on from there. In an interview with Telephony Online, Holliday predicts California will be next: "GTE [now part of Verizon] was renowned for having franchise areas surrounding large urban areas," as they do in Dallas, Holliday said. "Verizon still has most of those. I think this is just a first step. California comes immediately to mind as a place to really attack AT&T. The LA area is surrounded by old GTE properties." Verizon continues to deny that this is the birth of a new broadband trend. Holliday, meanwhile, thinks the success Verizon has pitching its FTTH service against VDSL will change that tune. "I think theyll beat the pants off Time Warner [Cable] and AT&T U-verse,' he says. "Thats my opinion. They have a superior service, and its cheaper."
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 baineschile2600 ways to livePremium join:2008-05-10 Sterling Heights, MI Reviews:
·Comcast
·magicjack.com
| The third giant? Dont forget Cable, they added 71% of all new broadband subscribers last year, and with fiber very expensive and time consuming (all NYC by 2014? By then, TWC will have 500mb internet itself) which just solidifys cables position, at least for the next few years. | |
|  |  DrModemPremium join:2006-10-19 USA kudos:1 | Re: The third giant? said by baineschile:Dont forget Cable, they added 71% of all new broadband subscribers last year, and with fiber very expensive and time consuming (all NYC by 2014? By then, TWC will have 500mb internet itself) They will have 500mb net, but you won't be able to download more than 1gb a month, and you will be charged $10.00 per megabyte over the limit thereafter. | |
|  |  |  | | Oh please, please, pleeeeeeze...
Verizon, make a foray into Silicon Valley. The choices here suck... I gave back my cable box 25 years ago, and I do not want to give Comcast my business now, seeing their atrocious behavior in trying to get away with capping service without telling anyone... and the famous filling seats for a FCC hearing with paid "placeholder people" just so net neutrality advocates couldn't get in.
And ATT... ay yi yi... | |
|  |  |  | | Re: The third giant? said by baineschile:Dont forget Cable, they added 71% of all new broadband subscribers last year, and with fiber very expensive and time consuming (all NYC by 2014? By then, TWC will have 500mb internet itself) I mean we all know that it is impossible to beat coax's bandwidth. Heck, there is no WAY light can carry as much info as it. There will come a time when others will have to bite the bullet and lay fiber, and well, Verizon is all ready there and doing that.
Have to love competiton | |
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 MattAll noise, no signal.Premium join:2003-07-20 Jamestown, NC kudos:12 | Research Triangle Park
They also service the RTP/Durham area in NC. The Raleigh/Durham/Chapel Hill area would be a VERY lucrative area for them as it's full of technology minded, high salaried people who will spend the money for a superior technology.
I would LOVE to see Verizon and AT&T go head to head. Of course, shareholders of both companies would hate to see it as it would mean AT&T would have to drop their lame duck U-Verse and Verizon would have to further increase their fiber expenditures. You can only milk your existing customers for so much money before you have to find new ones however.
(Although, AT&T doesn't believe that's the case and thinking they should be able to bill ANYONE a customer of theirs contacts.) | |
|  |  KearnstdElf WizardPremium join:2002-01-22 Mullica Hill, NJ | Re: Research Triangle Park Fairfield County, CT would also be a good place. it borders a Verizon area(NY State, means semi easy links to the VZ network) and its on average rather high income. -- [65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports | |
|  |  |  ILpt4UPremium join:2006-11-12 Lisle, IL kudos:4 Reviews:
·AT&T U-Verse
·AT&T Yahoo
1 edit | Hello? Cherry Picking Anyone? I love the change of tone here.
When State Video Franchise Laws are passed, the users here complain and whine about cherry-picking.
Verizon is cherry-picking by definition where they choose to overlap FiOS with U-Verse. Yet from what I see here, there is nothing but praise, and even encouragement to continue to cherry pick.
Come on people, you can't have it both ways. Either Cherry-picking is evil and discriminatory, or it is admirable & good business. | |
|  |  |  |  MattAll noise, no signal.Premium join:2003-07-20 Jamestown, NC kudos:12 | Re: Research Triangle Park said by ILpt4U:I love the change of tone here. When State Video Franchise Laws are passed, the users here complain and whine about cherry-picking. Verizon is cherry-picking by definition where they choose to overlap FiOS with U-Verse. Yet from what I see here, there is nothing but praise, and even encouragement to continue to cherry pick. Come on people, you can't have it both ways. Either Cherry-picking is evil and discriminatory, or it is admirable & good business. Cherry picking in under served areas with no competition is bad. This is going into area where there is already multiple choices, so of course they are going into areas where they know the uptake rate will be high. It's two completely different things. If you want to classify this as cherry picking, that's on you.
Regardless, it was neat how you took my comment to speak for everyone at DSLReports. I see what you did there. | |
|  |  |  |  |  ILpt4UPremium join:2006-11-12 Lisle, IL kudos:4 Reviews:
·AT&T U-Verse
·AT&T Yahoo
1 edit | Re: Research Triangle Park This is Cherry Picking because there are plenty of legacy Verizon areas that have NO access to broadband, and plenty more that have low-speed DSL as the only option, yet Verizon is picking these areas that already have Cable & VDSL options to spend their FiOS budget, because they feel that is where they make money, not further serving more customers with more broadband.
If that is not cherry picking to you, then cherry picking is different things to different people.
And I was not picking on you individually. Every time a story shows up here at dslreports about a new State Video Franchise, it is demonized as being a free pass for big Telcos to cherry pick. I can do some research and post some direct links if necessary. I'm calling BS, and calling out cherry picking in this instance, and the fact that it is being both defended & encouraged | |
|  |  |  |  |  |  | | Re: Research Triangle Park You live in a liberal world where everything including broadband should be included in your property taxes. VZ is spending billions of dollars on FiOS, and if they want to take on AT@T instead of deploying DSL to rural areas fine. VZ is not in the business to please every Tom, Dick and Harry,(It's their/shareholders money, no obligation to you or anyone else). As for redlining, here in Pittsburgh there is no redlining, strange as it may seem some of the worst areas have Fios available. In PA, VZ has gone to every municipality, where they offer service, to get a LFA(Local Franchise Agreement). So, if there's any redlining, blame the local government. | |
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 |  |  |  | | Re: Hello? Cherry Picking Anyone? Either Cherry-picking is evil and discriminatory, or it is admirable & good business. Yes, because the world runs in absolutes, and there's no possible way one thing could be both good and bad and the same time, right? | |
|  |  |  |  |  MattAll noise, no signal.Premium join:2003-07-20 Jamestown, NC kudos:12 | Re: Hello? Cherry Picking Anyone?
said by Karl Bode:Either Cherry-picking is evil and discriminatory, or it is admirable & good business. Yes, because the world runs in absolutes, and there's no possible way one thing could be both good and bad and the same time, right? Shades of Gray, some people just can't seem to grasp that concept. Everything is Good or Bad, Patriot or Terrorist, Republican or Democrat .. | |
|  |  |  |  |  |  DarkLogixPremium join:2008-10-23 Baytown, TX kudos:3 | Re: Hello? Cherry Picking Anyone? said by Matt:said by Karl Bode:Either Cherry-picking is evil and discriminatory, or it is admirable & good business. Yes, because the world runs in absolutes, and there's no possible way one thing could be both good and bad and the same time, right? Shades of Gray, some people just can't seem to grasp that concept. Everything is Good or Bad, Patriot or Terrorist, Republican or Democrat .. I never realized that shades of grey was so hard for people
I guess some just can't get past Republicrat and Democan(misspelling intended) | |
|  |  |  |  |  |  |  ILpt4UPremium join:2006-11-12 Lisle, IL kudos:4 Reviews:
·AT&T U-Verse
·AT&T Yahoo
1 edit | Re: Hello? Cherry Picking Anyone? I actually will concede that Cherry Picking in this case is probably both "good" and "bad".
Provide more customers with more premium broadband services and TV options is a win for the customer. Another provider in the marketplace is a good thing.
Pick out only the most potentially profitable areas to deploy the additional competing services, and neglecting deployment to your loyal phone customers for the past who knows how many years in so doing, well I would argue that if I were a Verizon customer still having to use Dial-up & Satellite, then this story would be upsetting to me. Verizon is cherry-picking customers they expect lots of money from, and neglecting their legacy customers.
So Good and Bad? Yes there are both benefits to this competition, and there are disappointments for Verizon customers that are waiting on FiOS, and even the many that will never see it.
My original point though that this is cherry-picking in its purest form still stands. If you disagree, heh, isn't America great (the current economic situation not withstanding)? | |
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 |  |  | | Re: Research Triangle Park Technically they are already in Fairfield County. Half of Greenwhich is already served by Verizon for whatever reason. All they need to do is start with the rest of the town and move onto other towns in southern CT. | |
|  |  |  KommiePremium join:2003-05-13 united state kudos:2 Reviews:
·Comcast
| said by Kearnstd:Fairfield County, CT would also be a good place. it borders a Verizon area(NY State, means semi easy links to the VZ network) and its on average rather high income. They are overbuilding in Stamford, CT. | |
|  |  |  |  patcat88 join:2002-04-05 Jamaica, NY kudos:1 | Re: Research Triangle Park said by Kommie:said by Kearnstd:Fairfield County, CT would also be a good place. it borders a Verizon area(NY State, means semi easy links to the VZ network) and its on average rather high income. They are overbuilding in Stamford, CT. Where?
And don't confuse Verizon with Verizon Business/MCI, although I've never seen a VZB/MCI truck. | |
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 |  |  patcat88 join:2002-04-05 Jamaica, NY kudos:1 | said by Kearnstd:Fairfield County, CT would also be a good place. it borders a Verizon area(NY State, means semi easy links to the VZ network) and its on average rather high income. Even though it sounds like money hand over fist, you have to remember the aggressive cable co in fairfield county, Cablevision, the only ISP willing to do performance battles with FIOS with 30/5 | |
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 | | Border Areas I live in FiOS territory in Southern California in a fairly new housing track and literally half a block south of me is AT&T territory. Verizon would be stupid NOT to bring FiOS to the area directly south of me. When I take a walk through my neighborhood, literally every house I walk past with their garage door open has a Verizon FiOS ONT installed in their garage. Verizon's market share in So Cal must be very high. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if 5 out of 7 houses subscribed to either FiOS TV OR FiOS Internet in my neighborhood. Verizon should take advantage of markets like these, particularly because their only competition around here is Charter (2 thumbs down) and AT&T (half the tracks don't even have U-verse)... | |
|  |  JPLPremium join:2007-04-04 Downingtown, PA kudos:1 | Re: Border Areas said by BigPete82 :
I live in FiOS territory in Southern California in a fairly new housing track and literally half a block south of me is AT&T territory. Verizon would be stupid NOT to bring FiOS to the area directly south of me. When I take a walk through my neighborhood, literally every house I walk past with their garage door open has a Verizon FiOS ONT installed in their garage. Verizon's market share in So Cal must be very high. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if 5 out of 7 houses subscribed to either FiOS TV OR FiOS Internet in my neighborhood. Verizon should take advantage of markets like these, particularly because their only competition around here is Charter (2 thumbs down) and AT&T (half the tracks don't even have U-verse)... How old is your neighborhood? The reason I'm asking is that it could be that your entire neighborhood is already fiber. My wife and I have been shopping around for a new home. Two neighboring neighborhoods, both having houses less than 5 years old, and both built by the same builder, had a number of houses for sale (4 or 5). In every one we looked at they had an ONT in the basement. I thought that odd until I realized how new the houses were. Verizon doesn't even lay copper to new houses anymore - at least not around here. Whenever you see a new development go in, you always see the tell-tale spools of orange cable. | |
|  |  |  | | Re: Border Areas My neighborhood was built in 2004, so you could be right, every house may have been built with a preinstalled ONT. Even so, just speaking with my neighbors, none of them want to even touch Charter with a 10 foot pole, even for tv. The FiOS vans are in the neighborhood on a weekly basis doing installs and I haven't once seen a charter van in our neighborhood since I moved in 4 months ago, so I'm still very confident with my 5 out of 7 houses estimate. | |
|  |  |  |  | | Re: Border Areas BigPete, are you in 92880? If so I am in the same area. Verizon did lay copper in the area as that is what I had originally for phone. But they also ran fiber while they were building the tract. About 1 year after I moved in, they started selling Fios. I was the second person in that area to get it installed according to the tech. I too see every home I walk by with an ONT in the garage. Charter simply sucked when I had them for internet for that first year. | |
|  |  |  |  |  | | Re: Border Areas You got it. I recently moved to 92880 from Riverside, which as I'm sure you know is exclusively AT&T territory. While I won't tell my wife this, I put a premium on the houses north of Limonite because they had FiOS. Thankfully, we got a good deal on our house anyway, but wouldn't regret it even if we didn't get as good a deal. FiOS is that wonderful. | |
|  |  |  |  |  |  | | Re: Border Areas Haha, that's funny. I would do the same thing. If I ever move in the future, Fios is a requirement. | |
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 |  |  | | the"orange cable" isnt cable at all. its the inner duct conduit that the fiber goes into. just a minor technical detail...please resume normal friday activities. | |
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 scrummie02BentleyPremium join:2004-04-16 Arlington, VA | Is that Hulk Hogan and King Kong Bundy? Those were the days of wrestling if you ask me... | |
|  iansltx join:2007-02-19 Golden, CO kudos:2 Reviews:
·Comcast
| Let's see here... U-Verse (bundle required on lower tiers?)
$25 - 1.5/1 $30 - 3/1 $35 - 6/1 $55 - 10/1.5 $65 - 18/1.5
FiOS ($5 less with phone service, bundle discounts also) $48 - 10/2 $58 - 20/5 $70 - 20/20 $90 or $145 - 50/20 (soon to be 100/???)
Additionally, Verizon has DSL service, though probably not available in AT&T areas $20 - 1/384 $30 - 3/768 $43 - 7/768
On the low end, VZ DSL suffers from low upload speeds compared with UVerse, but otherwise holds its own price-wise.
If you're in the same area as FiOS and want something faster than 6/1 though, FiOS is the logical option. It's cheaper for higher upload speeds and slightly higher downloads...and your download speed doesn't go down when you're watching TV. FiOS is less clear of a choice than you'd think, but it's still the logical choice for people who use the internet even a little bit.
Of course, it would help Verizon to offer lower-end FiOS or higher-end DSL tiers to catch the people who want to pay less for their internet. On the other hand, 10/2 FiOS is cheaper than even 6/1 cable here... | |
|  |  jmn1207Premium join:2000-07-19 Ashburn, VA | Re: Let's see here... I have FiOS, and I still dream about Paxio. Some day... | |
|  |  |  dadkinsCan you do Blu?Premium,MVM join:2003-09-26 Hercules, CA kudos:18 | Re: Let's see here... said by jmn1207:I have FiOS, and I still dream about Paxio. Some day... Wish they would expand to the East Bay... -- Think outside the Fox... Opera | |
|  |  |  |  jmn1207Premium join:2000-07-19 Ashburn, VA | Re: Let's see here... said by dadkins:said by jmn1207:I have FiOS, and I still dream about Paxio. Some day... Wish they would expand to the East Bay... That might be a hard sell for Paxio, considering how solid your service appears to be. I can't imagine there being too much dissatisfaction in your immediate area to take advantage of, but you'll certainly see Paxio before I ever will. | |
|  |  |  |  joebarnhartPaxio evangelist join:2005-12-15 Santa Clara, CA 1 edit | Dadkins -- Paxio is in Emeryville now. They got a contract to supply the city itself and they're selling to businesses and homes in the area. Where in the E.B. are you looking for them? (Oops -- Hercules, of course. Just a little further up the bay!)
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|  |  |  |  |  See 6 replies to this post |
 | | Message to Karl: I Love the Wrestling Pic It doesn't evoke the nostalgia for me like the Rocky / Ivan Drago pic that you seem to have reserved for the Telco/MSO war, but it's effective nonetheless. Glad to see that you're still both news-savvy AND clever! | |
|  AmmlerPremium join:2005-04-19 Pittsburgh, PA | Fiber Rules Of course Verizon will clean at&t's clock, they have the better implementation scheme.
Now if Verizon would just bring some FIOS lovin into the heart of the city of Pittsburgh (not just around the fringes), I'd be as happy as a pig in slop!  | |
|  Doctor FourMy other vehicle is a TARDISPremium join:2000-09-05 Dallas, TX | If Verizon invades AT&T U-Verse territory What will this mean for AT&T's proposed caps and overusage billing, considering that as of yet, Verizon isn't doing this?
It could mean they will rethink those caps in areas where Verizon also provides service. But if your CO only has AT&T, and there isn't a VZ one nearby, no direct competition means you may soon see caps. -- "The trouble with computers, of course, is that they are very sophisticated idiots." - Doctor Who (from Robot)
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|  |  djrobx join:2000-05-31 Valencia, CA kudos:1 Reviews:
·Verizon Wireless..
·RoadRunner Cable
·AT&T U-Verse
·VOIPo
·PHONE POWER
1 edit | Re: If Verizon invades AT&T U-Verse territory said by Doctor Four:What will this mean for AT&T's proposed caps and overusage billing, considering that as of yet, Verizon isn't doing this? That's going to be a problem for AT&T whether Verizon overbuilds or not. Comcast is the only major company to implement caps across its footprint, and it's a very generous 250GB allowance. Comcast's cap is so significantly better than what AT&T is testing that it's practically non-existant to someone who would be faced with the choice between the two (caps being the only factor in terms of this discussion).
There's Time Warner's Select plan in Beaumont, but so far that trial has not progressed, and even if it did, Time Warner is the least cohesive of the big providers. Each Time Warner region seems to do whatever it wants in terms of setting speeds, prices, and promotions, why would data caps be any different? For example, TWC Los Angeles may have trouble implementing such draconian caps while half of that territory is serviced by Verizon. So even without Verizon overbuilding into AT&T territory, AT&T may be indrectly affected by what Verizon does.
I question whether AT&T even cares about being that competitive. They may be perfectly content to lose the bandwidth hungry power users. I think that strategy would ultimately bite them in the ass though. -- AT&T U-Hearse Your funeral. Delivered.
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|  |  |  patcat88 join:2002-04-05 Jamaica, NY kudos:1 | Re: If Verizon invades AT&T U-Verse territory said by djrobx:There's Time Warner's Select plan in Beaumont, but so far that trial has not progressed, and even if it did, Time Warner is the least cohesive of the big providers. Each Time Warner region seems to do whatever it wants in terms of setting speeds, prices, and promotions, why would data caps be any different? For example, TWC Los Angeles may have trouble implementing such draconian caps while half of that territory is serviced by Verizon. So even without Verizon overbuilding into AT&T territory, AT&T may be indrectly affected by what Verizon does. TWC's markets operate almost independently of each other. Its as if TWC was a franchise or a co-op. | |
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 |  EPS join:2008-02-13 Hingham, MA | said by Doctor Four:What will this mean for AT&T's proposed caps and overusage billing, considering that as of yet, Verizon isn't doing this? It could mean they will rethink those caps in areas where Verizon also provides service. But if your CO only has AT&T, and there isn't a VZ one nearby, no direct competition means you may soon see caps. I think it depends on what Verizon does. Obviously if Verizon "joins the club" and institutes caps too, then there'd be no issue (well, there'd be an issue, but not this issue).
Even if VZ stays uncapped (which I think they will), it only becomes an issue to at&t if they promote it as an advantage, and I doubt VZ would ever do that- they seem to want to be able to keep all their options open, you'll never see them say they outright oppose caps, because they know they might change their mind in the future. | |
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 VarlikWithout Honor You Will Never Be FreePremium join:2002-01-06 Anderson, SC | Piqued Interest If I thought my area Podunkville Sc stood a chance of getting FIOS my interest would be piqued too. | |
|  | | VZ should hurry up they need to serve my city!, i like att uverse......but i want the faster speeds of fios, they serve the city north east of mine, but yet not my city!, really not that hard to run some lines down this way! | |
|  | | Remember.... VZ only has to run line, and have permission to install its optical relays to provide service to an area. They could spread to the whole country if they wanted to.
- A -- LETS GO METS! | |
|  | | Not Overbuilding The first line of the article states it rather clearly "Earlier this year, Verizon began laying new plant (not overbuilding) in select AT&T territories in Texas"
Overbuilding would require use of ILEC Central Offices or creating new ones. What they are doing is extending out the boundaries of their existing offices where they already have Franchise Rights.
Since they already have Central Office equipment in place, the investment is less than starting a new area which they are the Local Provider. I can see them doing this in densely populated areas of NJ (or other states) where they border with Embarq. | |
|  fiber_manThings Happen For A ReasonPremium join:2001-01-27 Port Saint Lucie, FL | merger next?? Just wait and see. They will be in merger talks soon enough. The bell system has been getting back together since the 20 year rule after the break up of AT&T in 1984. Easier to merge then to fight with each other. -- GO NOLES!! | |
|  |  ILpt4UPremium join:2006-11-12 Lisle, IL kudos:4 Reviews:
·AT&T U-Verse
·AT&T Yahoo
| Re: merger next?? I really don't think the US Gov't (especially an Obama Gov't) will continue to allow the former elements of the old Bell System to come back together all under One flag.
I think Bell Labs/Western Electric (which became Lucent and is now owned by Alcatel) will never get back with the rest of the old Bell System.
As for the 3 remaining RBOCs, perhaps maybe the Feds would let either Verizon or AT&T absorb Qwest, but I highly doubt that, and I doubt even more that the Feds would let AT&T and Verizon, with or without Qwest, to ever become One once again.
Who knows though. Anything is possible. I would still think such a company would be back in the monopoly business, especially with the Wireless business, as AT&T & Verizon are the two biggest by far. As one, their market power would be unbelievable. | |
|  |  |  fiber_manThings Happen For A ReasonPremium join:2001-01-27 Port Saint Lucie, FL | Re: merger next?? You are right. But this government let the AT&T/Bellsouth merger go through. I thought that if government wanted competition that they would have block that merger. -- GO NOLES!! | |
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 | | Fios vs U-Verse I live in north Richardson, Tx where SBC laid fiber years ago in anticipation of VDSL. They fitted everything out in BroadBand Technology gear which instantly went obsolete when the company went bye-bye. For the first few years the throughput was enviable but the legacy system became a bastard stepchild, fixable only through gurus at Advance Solutions--AT&T's mainstream tech has no idea how this system works. As a result we kludge along at about 120 Kbps with no ability to up our speed (Hell, I'd pay for the faster line, but they can't get it to the neighborhood.. on an optic line!???) Bring on Fios. AT&T has dragged its foot so long I think it has fallen off. | |
|  |  | | Re: Fios vs U-Verse said by Carnifax17:I live in north Richardson, Tx where SBC laid fiber years ago in anticipation of VDSL. They fitted everything out in BroadBand Technology gear which instantly went obsolete when the company went bye-bye. For the first few years the throughput was enviable but the legacy system became a bastard stepchild, fixable only through gurus at Advance Solutions--AT&T's mainstream tech has no idea how this system works. As a result we kludge along at about 120 Kbps with no ability to up our speed (Hell, I'd pay for the faster line, but they can't get it to the neighborhood.. on an optic line!???) Bring on Fios. AT&T has dragged its foot so long I think it has fallen off. I lived in Richardson several years ago and wanted some sort of high speed service. My apt. complex had an exclusive deal with a cable provider that didn't offer broadband and the ILEC was SBC. After talking with SBC, they told me I could get VDSL, so I switched my phone service over, but then a couple of weeks later, I got a call from a tech who said he couldn't hook me up. So I was stuck with dial-up the entire time I was in that apartment. It was awful! | |
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