When Piracy Is Easier Than Legit Purchase - Video content industry still not quite getting it....

When Piracy Is Easier Than Legit Purchase
Video content industry still not quite getting it....
(old news - 11:31AM Friday Sep 14 2007)
tags: Video · competition · business · content

We've repeatedly noted that when bloggers, industry analysts and the companies they analyze discuss competing for your broadband affections, there's a tendency to treat piracy like the invisible elephant in the room. The reality remains that fair or not, ethical or not, broadband content distributors are in competition with piracy.

NBC recently demanded that the FCC force broadband providers to ban pirated traffic on their networks, using the argument that said trading hurts corn farmers by cannibalizing movie theater revenue. The company then went on to pull their video content from iTunes, driving many of those users to the very pirated services NBC loathes.

CNET's Chris Soghoian explores how while NBC is making it harder to get its content, tools like Miro are making it easier to pirate content:

"It's taken some time, but the 'piracy' path has finally gotten to be more user-friendly and easy to use than iTunes and the other pay-services. Miro, a multi-platform RSS and BitTorrent enabled media client is now very stable, polished and fast. Using a tool such as this, and a couple minutes of configuration to subscribe to your favorite shows, it's now possible for users worldwide to wake up to the latest episode of The Daily Show, without paying a penny, or being locked into a restrictive DRM scheme."

Of course, NBC has plans of its own. Many of their shows will be available via their new service Hulu, which heads into beta this October.

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Forums » When Piracy Is Easier Than Legit Purchase


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Chiyo Save Me Konata-Chan Premium join:2003-02-20 Minneapolis, MN clubs: ·Comcast	If you cap it,they will download it I think it's just a lost cause the tv studios and channels can only do so much. If people can get it for free they will. Even people I know who aren't the most computer alliterates are pirating TV and enjoying it. They like the quality and commercial free aspect the most. -- My Blog: »jaab1.blogspot.com/
	permalink · 2007-09-14 11:38:32 ·

swhx7
Premium
join:2006-07-23
Elbonia

·RoadRunner Cable

Re: If you cap it,they will download it

said by Chiyo

:

If people can get it for free they will.

Even people I know who aren't the most computer alliterates are pirating TV and enjoying it. They like the quality and commercial free aspect the most.

Is it the "free" or the "quality and commercial free" that's the most important factor?

I believe that most of the pirates would be willing to pay for legal content if it were high quality, free from DRM, and priced low. People would rather be free from the worry about lawsuits and would like to support the studios that make shows they like. The problem is simply that the copyright owners have never offered anything comparable.

permalink · 2007-09-14 12:07:11 · Print ·

LiamJunket
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Ocean City, NJ

·Comcast

Re: If you cap it,they will download it

said by swhx7

:

Is it the "free" or the "quality and commercial free" that's the most important factor?

I believe that most of the pirates would be willing to pay for legal content if it were high quality, free from DRM, and priced low.

And I disagree. As long as it is free, no level of quality and low price will satisfy most pirates. Their belief that they are entitled to everything for free is the major driving force in their selfish philosophy of life.
--
--
Internet News
My BLOG
My Web Page

permalink · 2007-09-14 12:37:26 · Print ·

karlmarx

join:2006-09-18
Nashua, NH

·Fairpoint Communic..

Re: If you cap it,they will download it

But, your argument holds no merit. All of the shows on NBC are FREE already. They broadcast it over the air for all to watch. The fact that I choose to WATCH their FREE broadcast on a different medium is what annoys them. But downloading an OTA TV show from the internet is not stealing. If it's HBO or the like, then yes, you are stealing. But getting a FREE tv show in a format that is better for you is not immoral, illegal or wrong.
--
Stick it to the MAN. Support your local torrent sites. Proudly providing 100mb of upstream for all your TV, Movie, and MP3 needs.

permalink · 2007-09-14 12:46:24 · Print ·

Nightfall
My Goal Is To Deny Yours
Premium,MVM
join:2001-08-03
Grand Rapids, MI

·AT&T Midwest

·Site5.com

·Comcast

Re: If you cap it,they will download it

said by karlmarx

:

But, your argument holds no merit. All of the shows on NBC are FREE already. They broadcast it over the air for all to watch. The fact that I choose to WATCH their FREE broadcast on a different medium is what annoys them. But downloading an OTA TV show from the internet is not stealing. If it's HBO or the like, then yes, you are stealing. But getting a FREE tv show in a format that is better for you is not immoral, illegal or wrong.

When it comes to television, I agree.
When it comes to software, games, music, and so on, I disagree.

I am pretty sure he was talking about the later.

permalink · 2007-09-14 13:24:41 · Print ·

ross

join:2000-08-16

·Digizip

Re: If you cap it,they will download it

said by Nightfall

said by karlmarx

When it comes to television, I agree.
When it comes to software, games, music, and so on, I disagree.

I am pretty sure he was talking about the later.

I'm pretty sure x544348 couldn't possibly have been talking about anything but TV, if you are referring to x544348's comment which was a direct reply to Chyo, who was talking about TV. And, Karlmarx certainly wasn't talking about "software, games, music, and son on". You are the only one talking about "software, games, music, and son on", as far as I can see. Try to pay attention!

permalink · 2007-09-14 14:40:37 · Print ·

Nightfall
My Goal Is To Deny Yours
Premium,MVM
join:2001-08-03
Grand Rapids, MI

·AT&T Midwest

·Site5.com

·Comcast

1 edit

Re: If you cap it,they will download it

said by ross

said by Nightfall

said by karlmarx

When it comes to television, I agree.
When it comes to software, games, music, and so on, I disagree.

I am pretty sure he was talking about the later.

You were replying to what swhx7 said. At least that is what I thought. Obviously, you didn't mean to click on the "Reply" box on his post. You meant to do it on the first post.

As for the "try to pay attention" remark, you might want to invoke a little more respectable attitude. People make reply mistakes all the time. Belittling someone is not really a great course of action.

permalink · 2007-09-14 15:47:43 · Print ·

ross

join:2000-08-16

·Digizip

Re: If you cap it,they will download it

said by Nightfall

:

You were replying to what swhx7 said. At least that is what I thought. Obviously, you didn't mean to click on the "Reply" box on his post. You meant to do it on the first post.

As for the "try to pay attention" remark, you might want to invoke a little more respectable attitude. People make reply mistakes all the time. Belittling someone is not really a great course of action.

Absolutely not! You took issue with karlmarx, who was taking issue with x544348, who was taking issue with swhx7, who was questioning Chiyo.

I was taking issue with you for the reason I stated. That is why I clicked on your post reply box, not anyone else's.

The point was no one was talking about anything but TV, until you tried to introduce "software, games, music, and so on", which was irrelevant to karlmarx's reply to x544348. You then attributed the addition of software, games, etc. to x544348 by inference; "I am pretty sure he (emphasis added) was talking about the latter."-Nightfall

The discussion was/is about broadcast TV programs downloaded off the net...and I agree with karlmarx, not with x544348, and so, apparently, do you. So why your off-topic reference to illegal downloading of software, games, etc., muddying the waters? Either you had an agenda, or you weren't paying attention. Either way, your remarks re illegal "software, games, music, and so on", were irrelevant, and only served to obfuscate the points so aptly summarized by karlmarx.

Sorry you took umbrage...

permalink · 2007-09-14 18:25:16 · Print ·

LiamJunket Premium join:2002-03-03 Ocean City, NJ	Re: If you cap it,they will download it I wasn't just talking TV. I was talking about pirating in general.
	permalink · 2007-09-14 18:26:54 ·

ross join:2000-08-16 ·Digizip	Re: If you cap it,they will download it said by LiamJunket : I wasn't just talking TV. I was talking about pirating in general. I understood exactly what you had to say. So did karlmarx.
	permalink · 2007-09-14 19:00:43 ·

antdude
A Ninja Ant
Premium,VIP
join:2001-03-25

said by karlmarx

Is OTA part really true? I have heard people still get DMCA'ed for sharing full episodes that can be seen and recorded OTA for free.

permalink · 2007-09-14 15:28:46 · Print ·

Morac

join:2001-08-30
Riverside, NJ

·Comcast

said by karlmarx

If the version you downloaded has all the commercials intact I would agree with you, but all downloaded shows (pay or pirated) have the commercials removed. The commercials are what makes the show free. When the commercials are removed it is no longer free and at that point it would be considered stealing.
--

The Comcast Disney Avatar has been retired.

permalink · 2007-09-14 15:50:28 · Print ·

Hehe @ssa.gov	Re: If you cap it,they will download it My VCR automatically skips commercials. I guess it is stealing? If I manually fast forward, am I stealing?
	permalink · 2007-09-14 16:57:16 ·

lrtc join:2004-06-05 Toronto	Re: If you cap it,they will download it Yes!
	permalink · 2007-09-14 17:46:50 ·

KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK

·Cox HSI

·AT&T Southwest

said by Hehe :

My VCR automatically skips commercials. I guess it is stealing?

If I manually fast forward, am I stealing?

YOU TERRORIST!!

j/k

Well sorta. Seriously, I think there are some types who think like that.
--
"Regulatory capitalism is when companies invest in lawyers, lobbyists, and politicians, instead of plant, people, and customer service." - former FCC Chairman William Kennard (A real FCC Chairman, unlike the current Corporate Spokesperson in the job!)

permalink · 2007-09-14 22:20:42 · Print ·

Corehhi

join:2002-01-28
Bluffton, SC

These shows are on TV for free. The fact that you want to watch them at a different time doesn't do anything. I use to work at night and I video taped shows every night. That is legal. What's the difference in taping the shows yourself or going on the internet and getting a copy of it? Those TV shows really don't have any replay value anyways. In a lot of cases I think it actually gets more viewers to tune into something they don't normally watch.

permalink · 2007-09-14 13:01:56 ·

AquaBlaze Premium join:2004-02-02 Encino, CA	Re: If you cap it,they will download it said by Corehhi : In a lot of cases I think it actually gets more viewers to tune into something they don't normally watch. Totally agree. There are many recommended TV shows I've seen on the various streaming content outlets online that I would've never picked up on otherwise.
	permalink · 2007-09-14 13:15:39 ·

Sammer

join:2005-12-22
Pittsburgh, PA

said by Corehhi

:

What's the difference in taping the shows yourself or going on the internet and getting a copy of it? Those TV shows really don't have any replay value anyways. In a lot of cases I think it actually gets more viewers to tune into something they don't normally watch.

A Supreme Court ruling (Disney vs. Betamax) is the difference between taping the shows off the air for your own personal use and getting them off the internet. Since NBC charges sponsors when it airs reruns (admittedly less) it would certainly argue that there is replay value.

permalink · 2007-09-14 14:32:18 · Print ·

compton

join:2002-02-08
Brooklyn, NY

Re: If you cap it,they will download it

said by Sammer

said by Corehhi

You are correct. Taping a show for your own personal use is legal. If you share that show over the Internet then you are no longer using it for personal use; therefore, you are breaking the copyright agreement. Also, stripping out the commercials are illegal. There was a law that passed about 3 years ago making it illegal for DVD and VCR recorders sold in the United States to have the ability to skip commercials when recording. They can have features that can skip over the commercials when fast forwarding, but they can't bypass the recording of those commercials.

permalink · 2007-09-14 22:03:52 · Print ·

grandpinaple join:2006-01-03 New York, NY	Re: If you cap it,they will download it Because if the Supreme Court says so it must be true.
	permalink · 2007-09-14 22:33:46 ·

AquaBlaze
Premium
join:2004-02-02
Encino, CA

said by LiamJunket

:

And I disagree. As long as it is free, no level of quality and low price will satisfy most pirates. Their belief that they are entitled to everything for free is the major driving force in their selfish philosophy of life.

But what's the financial harm in this venture? If only 5% of pirates download a high quality, DRM-free, and correctly priced video file...isn't that making more than the whopping 0% of pirated film "losses" that they're getting now?

It just really sucks that the people willing to pay for entertainment (ie. their paying customers) get a shoddier product than the bootleggers peddle around for free.

permalink · 2007-09-14 13:08:13 · Print ·

Nightfall
My Goal Is To Deny Yours
Premium,MVM
join:2001-08-03
Grand Rapids, MI

·AT&T Midwest

·Site5.com

·Comcast

Re: If you cap it,they will download it

said by AquaBlaze

said by LiamJunket

I agree with you that these products should be free of DRM and such protection. There has to be a competitive price point by the makers of music, games, and movies to make it worthwhile to purchase.

I remember when DVD movies were being ripped and distributed on P2P. DVDs were very reasonably priced and had a ton of extras. People were saying that the MPAA were doing something right by including a lot of extras in their product to sell it. Even today, DVDs are doing well with this model.

The problem is that pirates will always feel like they are entitled to something for nothing. Even if the price was just a couple bucks, a lot of pirates would still take it. There has to be stiff penalties in store for people who do break the law in situations like this. To say that its ok to acceptable for 95% of the people to take your product with a cheaper price and no DRM than 100% for a higher priced product isn't a winning proposal for a business.

permalink · 2007-09-14 13:30:30 · Print ·

Ahrenl

join:2004-10-26
North Andover, MA

·Verizon FIOS

Re: If you cap it,they will download it

The problem is the blanket use of the word "pirates". Some people are talking about the people who have been doing this for 10-20 years, and will not change. Other's are talking about everyone who has ever or will ever download copyrighted content. Most People who have or would consider pirating, would rather get the content through a legit service. Provided equal quality the content creators have the following potential advantages:
1. Ease of use
2. Ease of locating
3. Ability to distribute
4. No worry of data integrity (Virus/Trojan/etc.)

I've been VERY disappointed with the re-broadcast offering of the major networks. (and I have an HTPC already setup). Thank god I have a DVR, or I would watch 0% of their shows.

permalink · 2007-09-14 13:54:18 · Print ·

AquaBlaze
Premium
join:2004-02-02
Encino, CA

Re: If you cap it,they will download it

said by Ahrenl

:

Most People who have or would consider pirating, would rather get the content through a legit service.

Bingo. I'd support more legit distribution services if they weren't starting to load themselves with more useless DRM bloat. Take a look at the continuing Sony DRM fiasco(s). There's no way in hell I'd buy another disc, as I'm not about to jeopardize my computer with their crapware.

permalink · 2007-09-14 14:08:49 · Print ·

AquaBlaze
Premium
join:2004-02-02
Encino, CA

said by Nightfall

:

To say that its ok to acceptable for 95% of the people to take your product with a cheaper price and no DRM than 100% for a higher priced product isn't a winning proposal for a business.

True...but there's two major problems in the marketplace:

A.) Pirates *will* always defeat any amount of DRM a company puts forth.

B.) The more they DRM up their legit products to counteract the inevitibility of A., they begin impeding with customer's fair use. (ie. see the Bioshock PC-game release fiasco)

Basically, these production companies are investing major bucks to effectively piss off their paying customers, and pirates are still getting away with the media they seek to protect. Locks just keep honest people honest. Sticking with some simplistic DRM keeps your average Joe Blow from bootlegging with ease, yet also enables your tech savvy paying customers to still support your venture.

DVDs are the penultimate "happy medium" with piracy. They're cheap enough (and loaded with extras) to make piracy trivial to most, yet simple enough to keep the entry-level techie coming back for more.

permalink · 2007-09-14 14:06:38 · Print ·

Nightfall
My Goal Is To Deny Yours
Premium,MVM
join:2001-08-03
Grand Rapids, MI

·AT&T Midwest

·Site5.com

·Comcast

Re: If you cap it,they will download it

said by AquaBlaze

said by Nightfall

:

To say that its ok to acceptable for 95% of the people to take your product with a cheaper price and no DRM than 100% for a higher priced product isn't a winning proposal for a business.

I 100% agree with you. The problem is that I believe that DRM as a whole is a hastle as it is. IMHO, they should do away with it entirely. As you said, pirating has been around as a whole for years and years. There is no stopping it. The only way to reduce it is to make the product affordable, make it widely available, and not protect it.

At the same time though, there has to be stiff penalties for people who are caught pirating. It can't be the 300 pound elephant in the closet that no one talks about because its always going to be around.

permalink · 2007-09-14 15:44:12 · Print ·

davoice

join:2000-08-12
Saxapahaw, NC

said by LiamJunket

And when is the last time you bought a bottle of water instead of taking and cup and getting "free" water out of the spiggot?

When things come with a value or convenience proposition, people will gladly pay. Just ask Coke and Pepsi who now sell more bottles of water globally than of their respective signature soda.

}Davoice

permalink · 2007-09-14 15:04:06 · Print ·

TechieZero Tools Are Using Me Premium join:2002-01-25 Wesley Chapel, FL	I agree w/ swhx7. Downloading it under the table, is usually crappy quality and time consuming. If it had a decent production value, easy and timely...I would pay for it.
	permalink · 2007-09-14 15:20:33 ·

jc100

join:2002-04-10

·RoadRunner Cable

Pretty much. Piracy has been around since the Cassette Player and VCR. People would put a piece of tape over the copyright part and dub one for their friend. With the advent of the VCR, one could record their favorite shows and edit out commercials. Sure, these were the rudimentary days of the 1980s where each copy meant worse and worse quality. I remember watching movies as a kid that were 2nd and 3rd generation VHS. Granted, in the 1980's, quality didn't mean digital and we used rabbit ears. Anyone who was a kid in the 1980s or before knows exactly what I'm talking about. The problem arises now that copies don't degrade each go around. Digital means the first or the 100th are the same. So what does one do? My opinion, the industries need to embrace piracy vs fight it. For example, we all can record t.v. shows whether through tivo or dvr. Hence, to charge people for this content is ludicrous. Therefore, I believe that the T.V. industry should adopt sort of a blind eye policy. In this respect, they will not pursue people who do not disseminate their property. If someone pirates their t.v. show, they promise not to take legal action as long as the commercials remain in it. While this is not the most ideal solution, it guarantees that those who sponsor their shows still are allotted some face time. My 2 cents.

permalink · 2007-09-14 13:54:51 · Print ·

MightyPez

join:2002-05-01
Saint Paul, MN

·Comcast

It's INSANELY easy

Using a popular tracker and an RSS feed, one can easily get a show a couple hours after it first airs. No dealing with third party software to view the content, no restrictions, and in a format you can choose.

I actually used the Amazon video player last night for the first time to download the early preview for the first episode of NBC's "Chuck". It's wasn't a terribly pleasant experience. I had to do a one click purchase, they emailed me a link to get the lousy Amazon video player/downloader, and it took hours to get it downloaded. Not only that, but I can ONLY view the WMV file in that Amazon player (and possibly WMP, I never tested it). Personally, I like watching shows streamed to my Xbox Media Center on my nice television, not crouched in front of a computer monitor.

I'm not trying to advocate copyright infringement or "screw big companies!", but media corporations really need to get on the ball with this. Worried about piracy? Make it easy, affordable, and open to use.

permalink · 2007-09-14 11:39:26 · Print ·

ncbill Premium join:2007-01-23 Winston Salem, NC	Re: It's INSANELY easy I use Unbox, but with my Tivos, not with a computer. That's convenient enough for me, especially the $0.99 movie specials.
	permalink · 2007-09-14 12:37:58 ·

NPGMBR join:2001-03-28 Arlington, VA	Re: It's INSANELY easy Really, I have had TiVo for about 4 years now and Never treid Unbox but I think its a recen thing. I don't use it because the downloads are typically 4 to 5 bucks which is too costly. How do you find the .99 stuff? Thanks
	permalink · 2007-09-14 13:39:47 ·

ncbill Premium join:2007-01-23 Winston Salem, NC	Re: It's INSANELY easy "Special deals" under the Unbox section of the Tivo. Special deals change from week to week - sometimes there are none.
	permalink · 2007-09-15 08:54:09 ·

NPGMBR join:2001-03-28 Arlington, VA	Re: It's INSANELY easy Thanks. I enver explored Unbox but will definitely give it a try. Thanks
	permalink · 2007-09-15 09:25:34 ·

RARPSL

join:1999-12-08
Suffern, NY

said by MightyPez

:

I actually used the Amazon video player last night for the first time to download the early preview for the first episode of NBC's "Chuck". It's wasn't a terribly pleasant experience. I had to do a one click purchase, they emailed me a link to get the lousy Amazon video player/downloader, and it took hours to get it downloaded. Not only that, but I can ONLY view the WMV file in that Amazon player (and possibly WMP, I never tested it). Personally, I like watching shows streamed to my Xbox Media Center on my nice television, not crouched in front of a computer monitor.

If you go to your local Blockbuster, you can rent a preview DVD with the Chuck Pilot (as well as Pilots for Journeyman and Life plus a promo for Bionic Woman) for a few dollars. You do not need to return it for 2 weeks and can watch on your TV.

permalink · 2007-09-14 17:30:47 · Print ·

dadkins Can you do Blu? Premium,MVM join:2003-09-26 Hercules, CA ·Comcast 1 edit	Restrictions/DRM vs Clean File? What would most people rather have? A legal but restricted & DRMed file? OR A downloaded clean file that they could use without possible system damage by DRM/restriction schemes? Hmmm... -- Think outside the Fox... Opera
	permalink · 2007-09-14 11:42:17 ·

See 6 replies to this post

Sabre
Di relung hatiku bernyanyi bidadari

join:2005-05-17

·Comcast

Ease of use matters.

This points out a big point, even beyond the "free" arguments of piracy: user-friendliness.

I'm constantly amazed, working in an IT environment, at the awfulness of software engineering in general. Companies pay so much for specialised software to serve their needs, that frankly is written like crap. Terrible interfaces, nearly impossible to learn to use. The same problems seem to affect much of the consumer software industry, this sort of software included. The "official" media downloading software, as mentioned elsewhere here, is almost always slammed as being hard to use and difficult to understand. Meanwhile, a custom-designed app by hackers works better.

No wonder people'd rather use that.
--
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world.

Save American Soccer - Stop the MLS!

permalink · 2007-09-14 12:10:15 · Print ·

dadkins Can you do Blu? Premium,MVM join:2003-09-26 Hercules, CA ·Comcast	Re: Ease of use matters. I have a "few" different media players. The downloads from legal sources are sometimes restricted to "Their" player. Uhm... no. When I download a media file from "other sources", trust me, I can play it fine. It's all about which player to use. -- Think outside the Fox... Opera
	permalink · 2007-09-14 12:51:41 ·

Doctor Four My other vehicle is a TARDIS Premium join:2000-09-05 Dallas, TX ·AT&T U-Verse ·RoadRunner Cable ·AT&T Yahoo	Napster, Part 2 Seems the video content industry is following in the same footsteps the music industry did with Napster. The alternatives they are offering are doing nothing to compete with pirated content, which is easier to use, free, and often better quality. -- "The trouble with computers, of course, is that they are very sophisticated idiots." - Doctor Who (from Robot)
	permalink · 2007-09-14 12:25:27 ·

Corehhi join:2002-01-28 Bluffton, SC	Re: Napster, Part 2 You saying Itunes isn't working out?
	permalink · 2007-09-14 13:04:32 ·

jjoshua
Premium
join:2001-06-01
Scotch Plains, NJ

·Verizon FIOS

·Comcast

High quality and DRM free

I want to download the file to my file server and play it using MythTV. That means good quality and no DRM.

To the original topic... Online services won't even sell this to me. Pirate sites have exactly what I require and it's free. If I was going to get content from the internet, which would I choose?

If this content were offered at a fair price, then not only would people pay for it, but I doubt that people would share it.

permalink · 2007-09-14 12:26:28 ·

fcisler
Premium
join:2004-06-14
Riverhead, NY

Plain and simple

Why a pay service doesn't interest me:

-I can get a HD quality (768) episode of...oh...lets say Family Guy. Does iTunes offer me that?
-As a sub point to that - even if I purchase the DVD - it's not HD!
-Companies think that a very compressed low quality video will cut it. I download 20+ GB HD DVD/Blu-ray rips - I want the option of a very good quality show/movie.
-NO DRM! I'm NOT watching it embedded in your website or player. I have a TV computer, a PDA, a phone and possible a DVD. I want to be able to go back and forth between them, and use it in a format which is convenient to me.
-Standard format. XviD, mkv, DivX, MP4 - I don't care...as long as your not going to use WMV or real (or any other format which I cannot easily obtain a codec for and transcode to any format I want)

Again....what does a pay service (amazon, iTuned) provide that I should care about? I have firewire from my DVR to my computer. I can record any show I want. Why should I pay them again?

permalink · 2007-09-14 12:29:44 · Print ·

hopeflicker
Capitalism breeds greed
Premium
join:2003-04-03
Long Beach, CA

Re: Plain and simple

I also feel that these "ones and zeros" that pass through my cable/dsl modem should not be illegal when those exact same "ones and zeros" that pass through my STB are completely legal.

And if you are gonna cry about the "well the content provider is not making money when you dl from the web" scenario, then what say you when i skip the commercials VIA my cable company owned DVR?

It just doesn't make sense.
--
People pray to God because they're told to.

permalink · 2007-09-14 12:56:47 ·

dadkins
Can you do Blu?
Premium,MVM
join:2003-09-26
Hercules, CA

·Comcast

Re: Plain and simple

Skipping commercials...
I have a VCR(yeah a VCR!) with this neat button on the remote - "Commercial Skip".

Can anyone tell me what that button is used for?

OTA shows(network programming) has been paid in full, PERIOD!
Now if I download a network show, WTF is so bad about that?

The program was paid in full when it was aired, I am paying for my internet connection(Hello! Comcast?) and the source is paying someone as well.

So, there is this paid in full show that it costing ME and THE SOURCE for transport.

Bitch Bitch Bitch is all I am hearing from these sniveling pay sites.

--
Think outside the Fox... Opera

permalink · 2007-09-14 13:05:35 · Print ·

dadkins Can you do Blu? Premium,MVM join:2003-09-26 Hercules, CA ·Comcast	Damn Right! I have two laptops that are DVRs(TV tuner, MPEG2 recording). I have several editing softwares that make short work of nuking commercials. A couple can export in a variety of formats... Or, Download whatever and... Sony ClicktoDVD? Gee! How much easier can it get? LOL! -- Think outside the Fox... Opera
	permalink · 2007-09-14 12:58:19 ·

Drakemoore

join:2005-02-03
Hawthorne, FL

My view

If companies put their content for online viewers to watch with advertisements then there would be much less trouble with people pirating things..

I wouldn't mind viewing episodes online and have to watch ads as long as the ads were not too intrusive. At least I wouldn't be shelling out $100 for a freaking season dvd set or forced to buy their over priced episodes online.

Content providers always blame pirating for everything however often it's the providers own faults because they will not adapt to changing times.

Recently a few TV networks have started to put content online with the method I just stated. However they only put their top rating shows and episodes which annoys the hell out of me because I would love to see some of their other shows..

permalink · 2007-09-14 12:52:10 · Print ·

Dirtyping

join:2001-10-30
West Haverstraw, NY

1 edit

Had enough of DRM

I never pirate, always pay for music and never share with anyone. With all the new restrictions I can clearly see how it would driving people to piracy.

I replace my mp3 and PC hardware frequently but always run into problems with licensing even though I legally purchased the mp3s. The upgrade to Windows Media Player 11 in particular was really problematic and now my entire collection for the last 7 years asks for an ID/password for each and every MP3 to download the license.

Since I really do not have time for this crap I am not downloading or purchasing anything at this point. So the music industry loses out when people like me decide to keep their wallet closed because of crap like this.

So now they have made an honest person like me consider finding software that will strip the DRM protection from music I have purchased because of their bullshit. (any recommendations?)

permalink · 2007-09-14 12:59:54 · Print ·

DOStradamus
MVM
join:2003-11-04
Santa Rosa, CA

"Holey Analog, Batman!"

All I want to do is this:

Download a movie in a high-quality format
Watch it in my 27" TV (S-video connection)
Hear the audio through my Sony amp and out my Klipsch speakers (SPDIF digital)

Note that I did not say the movie was necessarily DRM-free.

What has this setup targeted right in its crosshairs?

Hollywood's idea of "perfect DRM", as embodied my Microsoft's Protected Video and Audio Path DRM scheme! They consider connections like I use "potentially criminal".

Until that crowd removes the "spincter from around their neck" (put politely)....

permalink · 2007-09-14 13:09:22 · Print ·

Stumbles

join:2002-12-17
Port Saint Lucie, FL

3 edits

Well ya see,

NBC is right but their problem is thinking on too small a scale and their argument is obtuse.

Lets first straighten out the obtuseness of their argument it will hurt the corn growers. They really mean the popcorn growers. Well that's alright because now that ethanol is the latest pseudo science that is going to save the planet. Those popcorn growers can now switch to the much more profitable version of corn used to make ethanol. And since there is mostly a finite amount of tillable acreage the switch to growing corn will naturally INCREASE the price of corn.

That also addresses to a certain degree their scale issue. So lets explore that a bit further.

Now that ethanol will be powering trucks and said trucks also carry tubes. We can use these tubes to carry trucks and in effect power the many, many tubes that make up the internet. So not only do we get clean burning internet tubes, we at the same time save the planet by using a more renewable energy source to power the internet.

So I have to credit NBC for their insightful vision to want ISPs to block our tubes of unclean material so that the planet saving can become more focused at eliminating that inter-dimensional elephant everyone has in their room.

Admittedly, said elephant has never gotten in my way, nor has it ever invaded my space but like the creators of the Krikkit Robots, just knowing it is there means, it just has to go.

permalink · 2007-09-14 13:35:03 · Print ·

Jwobot join:2002-08-14 Sterling Heights, MI ·WOW Internet and C..	Networks just don't get it. Last season of Ugly Betty my aunt, me, my cousin and her friend missed an episode, so we went onto ABC's website and watched it. It was not fun standing around a monitor huddle together and watching the episode as well the constant buffering and freezing of the video.
	permalink · 2007-09-14 14:23:19 ·

hacker90

join:2005-09-01
Winnebago, IL

·Mediacom

Just some video quality...

All I want is a video that does not look choppy or complete crap. And audio and is not out of sync. I never understand why people bitch some much about DRM. I never have had any issues with any of them in my 3 computers. Guess people blow things WAY out of proportions.

My parents purchase software and music cds. And they don't even really care. They use them for all kinds of use and have had no problems. Never heard them complain of "quality" of the audio.

Give me some near HD quality im happy.

Hacker Killer

permalink · 2007-09-14 14:39:07 · Print ·

TheWickerMan join:2002-04-09 Enola, PA	Re: Just some video quality... said by hacker90 : I never understand why people bitch some much about DRM. Slept thru the Sony rootkit fiasco, did we?
	permalink · 2007-09-14 15:55:57 ·

hacker90 join:2005-09-01 Winnebago, IL	Re: Just some video quality... Nope I didn't sleep through it. I read up on the news. I just think people blow these things WAAYYY out of porportions just for their on selfish goals. I guess thats about it. Hacker Killer
	permalink · 2007-09-16 02:00:29 ·

fcisler Premium join:2004-06-14 Riverhead, NY	Maybe DRM will work for YOU on your three PC's. I don't run windows....does the DRM work for ME now? Without a doubt - NO! What about if I need to convert to play on a non iPod or Zune...Can I do that? I have to burn it to a CD then rip it back? No...no thanks at all.
	permalink · 2007-09-14 15:58:44 ·

dadkins
Can you do Blu?
Premium,MVM
join:2003-09-26
Hercules, CA

·Comcast

Downloading from some places requires *THEIR* downloader.
Playing that file requiers *THEIR* player.
The file and their player is using some unknown codec and the file will not play on anything BUT their player.

You cannot convert it - odd codec - nothing can read it.
You cannot burn it - restrictions/DRM/

^^^ All of that^^^ sucks ass!

Now, download the same thing from... The Pirate Bay.
the file will play on any damn player you want!
That file can be converted/burned because it is a generic codec that we all likely already have.

Do you understand now?
--
Think outside the Fox... Opera

permalink · 2007-09-14 16:17:33 · Print ·

Kearnstd Elf Wizard Premium join:2002-01-22 Mullica Hill, NJ	and some of the ones on pirate bay are very respectable copies if the person recorded it with an HD source and an HD tuner card. -- [65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports
	permalink · 2007-09-14 23:46:16 ·

kd6cae
P2p Shouldn't Be A Crime

join:2001-08-27
Lancaster, CA

·RoadRunner Cable

·DSL EXTREME

·Dreamhost

blind users forced to pirate

As a totally blind user of computers, with 0 sight whatsoever, relying on screen reading programs to allow me to do things on a computer, I notice a big problem with the major download services such as Itunes or Napster. The special software you need just to download and purchase tracks is not blind user friendly. That is, it hardly works or in many cases doesn't work at all with screen reading technology! Isn't it interesting though that many p2p apps and torrent clients work well for blind users. Not to mention I have 2 computers here, and want to play content I have on any of them. So unless the **AA's offer an accessible way to download content which I can play anywhere I choose, (I did purchase it after all), then I'll be forced to continue to get my desired content by means I'm able to use, which at this point is considered pirating, very sad if you ask me!

permalink · 2007-09-14 15:39:31 · Print ·

Sammer join:2005-12-22 Pittsburgh, PA	DRM mostly causes problems for honest customers! There have been a number of posts already about DRM but somehow the content providers don't get it.
	permalink · 2007-09-14 16:29:31 ·

DownTheShore Health Care Reform NOW Premium join:2003-12-02 Beautiful NJ clubs:	Hey Thanks! ...for that Miro link!
	permalink · 2007-09-14 16:36:44 ·

spielzeuger

join:2006-07-18
Denver, CO

They can't/won't read the writing on the wall.

Five years from now the whole "pirating" issue will be a thing of the past. Hollywood and the Networks, as we know them now, will be on the brink of extinction unless they completely re-think their marketing and distribution model! Between YouTube, P2P and Torrent sites, programs like Miro, and the proliferation of other high-quality freeware media programs, the entire video content industry is literally being turned upside down as we speak!

Once upon a time, a handful of mega-corporations produced, distributed, regulated, and controlled virtually every second of video intended for broadcast. In the few short years since the introduction of YouTube and the like, our entire concept of how and what kind of video content we watch has changed. The standard 28 minute network TV episode, and the typical 1.5 hour big studio movie are being replaced by the 30 second clip of orange-clad prisoners dancing to "Thriller" and the five minute poignant micro-drama or clever comedy.

As technology has become more and more available and easy to use, video content production has begun shifting from Corporate America to the average Joe in middle America. In a few short years, the bulk of video content will come from "amateur" sources, be easily accessible and universally playable, and most importantly, FREE. Unless the "Big Wigs" embrace this shift, and stop trying to control who, when, where, and how their content is watched and used, they'll end up holding an empty bag, while free, end-user-produced content becomes the dominant source and supplier.

permalink · 2007-09-14 20:40:06 · Print ·

WangFubar

join:2003-10-02
Paradise, CA

·AT&T DSL Service

Its like on demand but free...er

Grabbing popular TV shows off the internet "after" they have aired in their prime time slot doesn't hurt anyone. Leaking it before hand does. Movies are different but thats not what Im talking about.

Let me elaborate...
Because none of us can watch all the content that is out there, the networks are competing fiercely for your attention. Cable and satellite providers are quick to bring you a DVR or on demand service for a few dollars a month. Great you can watch the shows that you already like when you want. What about the people that have never seen your show? Why get all huffy that someone helped you advertise your show by spreading it around for people to see? Why not embrace the model and let people see your shows after you have aired them. If its not just crap, they will come back for more. If its crap well the networks are familiar with that and how to respond.

So my point in a nutshell is give your shows some bandwidth and let people stream them to see if they are worth watching. If you draw in more viewers its great, if not.. well at least you controlled the distribution (which is what this is really about anyway).

whimpering about what is happening in the dark corners of the internet and on college campuses across the nation doesn't grow your market share or ad revenue one bit...

permalink · 2007-09-14 21:46:29 · Print ·

captnhook

join:2001-02-20
NY

Re: Its like on demand but free...er

said by WangFubar

:

So my point in a nutshell is give your shows some bandwidth and let people stream them to see if they are worth watching. If you draw in more viewers its great, if not.. well at least you controlled the distribution (which is what this is really about anyway).

whimpering about what is happening in the dark corners of the internet and on college campuses across the nation doesn't grow your market share or ad revenue one bit...

Exactly

Television (and radio) have more than had their opportunities to embrace the new technology and become integrated into Web.
They could have easily provided streaming online broadcasts to mirror their local feeds and thusly ended up with their largest audience ever but instead they choose to limit what you can access (newscasts and crappy flash versions of prime time shows) via their bland websites.
The networks are run by a bunch of suit wearing baboons.

permalink · 2007-09-15 04:38:50 · Print ·

AnonShawUser

join:2006-06-17
Calgary, AB

Re: Its like on demand but free...er

If only I could get a good audio stream from local radio stations, without having to use their strictly web-based players, when it's even an option.

They would make a lot more money, especially on the AM band, by allowing for player-neutral streaming audio(m3u feeds would be best). Maybe even sign up different advertisers at a different rate, just for that, since then they could properly monitor just how many listeners they really do have.

permalink · 2007-09-15 16:27:17 ·

DrugSkill

join:2005-11-14
Saint-Jean-Sur-Richelieu, QC

·Videotron

2 edits

Tunebite

1 Word about DRMed content, Tunebite....but even with that I still download 'illegally'. I have zero respect for the corporations...They suffer no loose anyways, if it wouldn't be on P2P I would not buy it more....I would go out and play soccer or something like it.I'm far from being rich. Maybe I will revise the question when I will have more money to spend on virtual stuff than on food. My ISP is implementing cap on downloads/uploads in one month, maybe I will take that overpriced 80$/month to buy one game and one movie(which isn't a crappy Hollywood movie) instead....I am for supporting those who I think deserve it, but unfortunately my budget is really restricted....Anyways, those big corporations have been stealing from us for their own greed for years, I don't see what's worst in stealing from them just for entertainment...I'm not making money from it or anything. Say I'm stealing all you want...but I am contributing to something with my 80$/month for useless stuff, if it's not for broadband it will be for legitimate content...but the ISP corporation will lose my 80$/month....I do it just because I CAN...the day I will not be able to do what I can do now, like it seems it will be in one month...I'll just spend it elsewhere....or place it in the bank and start my own fucker business and steal from everyone like they do,including my own employees. I'm just joking, but it's close from the truth. I'm tired to see them crying like babies when money comes out of their own ass.

permalink · 2007-09-15 23:55:05 · Print ·

Justin_Credible

@comcast.net

people driven to piracy

I didn't see anyone touch on this topic so I figured I'd put in my 2 cents. I know I am just 1 of millions of people who, in the age of living paycheck to paycheck, got sick and tired of spending $17 on a CD from my favorite artist, or even a new artist I wanted to try, just to find out it was crap. Any other product in this world, if it's crap, you can take it back for a refund or exchange, but once you open that CD, that's it. So like many others I began to download music on my own. When I found the music to my liking, I bought the album, and knew when I bought it I was getting something I liked (though $17 is still a dumb price to pay for a CD) Instead of the record companies understanding what was going on, and fixing it (getting better artists or writing better songs for them) they just started to churn out more crap at higher prices and flood the market with sub-par material. And they wondered why CD sales went down.

Hollywood has taken the same route, making tons of crappy movies and releasing them to the masses. I soon learned to do the same with them, and DL movies I wish to view before going to buy them. This way my money is best spent for me, and in all honesty, it means that only the studios/artists i wish to support get their money, and all the crap places don't steal my hard earned cash.

Piracy wouldn't be such a problem if companies didn't make their prices so outrageous. No, you can never stop it fully, but you can lessen it's effects greatly with good business practices.

permalink · 2007-09-16 03:02:53 · Print ·

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If you cap it,they will download it

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Re: If you cap it,they will download it

Re: If you cap it,they will download it

Re: If you cap it,they will download it

Re: If you cap it,they will download it

Re: If you cap it,they will download it

Re: If you cap it,they will download it

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Re: If you cap it,they will download it

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It's INSANELY easy

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Re: It's INSANELY easy

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Restrictions/DRM vs Clean File?

Ease of use matters.

Re: Ease of use matters.

Napster, Part 2

Re: Napster, Part 2

High quality and DRM free

Plain and simple

Re: Plain and simple

Re: Plain and simple

My view

Had enough of DRM

"Holey Analog, Batman!"

Well ya see,

Networks just don't get it.

Just some video quality...

Re: Just some video quality...

Re: Just some video quality...

blind users forced to pirate

DRM mostly causes problems for honest customers!

Hey Thanks!

They can't/won't read the writing on the wall.

Its like on demand but free...er

Re: Its like on demand but free...er

Re: Its like on demand but free...er

Tunebite

people driven to piracy