  MikePremium,Mod
join:2000-09-17
Pittsburgh, PA
kudos:1 | Translation We have no idea what you're talking about. We're old.
I guess the FCC may know. However you may get a straighter answer just asking ATT directly. | |
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 Dream KillerGraveyard ShiftPremium
join:2002-08-09
Forest Hills, NY
kudos:1 | Fines? What's the punishment/fine if someone gets caught? | |
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 | MikePremium,Mod
join:2000-09-17
Pittsburgh, PA
kudos:1 Reviews:
 ·Verizon FiOS
Host:
W.O.W.
FairPoint
World of Warcraft
Site Tools
Verizon Wireless
| Re: Fines? $2,500 fine civil. Possible jail time if you do it for criminal gains.
If you're a reseller it's $500,000 and you go to jail.
So if you own a phone store and want to do something illegal, just stab someone in the chest 20 times then mutilate their corpse.
You don't want to do a real crime such as take $200 away from ATT. Besides, you'll serve less time with murder.
--
"If something about the human body disgusts you, complain to the manufacturer" - Lenny Bruce
What this country needs is a good five dollar plasma weapon. | |
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| | Dream KillerGraveyard ShiftPremium
join:2002-08-09
Forest Hills, NY
kudos:1 | Re: Fines? Well, I guess I can't get caught if it isn't in the country in the first place. | |
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| | | MikePremium,Mod
join:2000-09-17
Pittsburgh, PA
kudos:1 | Re: Fines? only illegal if you're caught | |
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| | | | | | Re: Fines? It's easy to say "who the hell would catch me?" But it's actually far more insidious than you think.
If for are stopped or arrested for any reason they can and will search everything you have. And a prosecutor is then free at solely their own discretion to prosecute you for something stupid.
And searching computers and cell phones of someone suspected of well.. anything.. is becoming more and more common place. Even if you are not suspected of any crime whatsoever and want to take a commercial flight. | |
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| | | | |  Cthen
join:2004-08-01
Detroit, MI
 ·Verizon Wireless..
 ·Comcast
| Re: Fines? said by Taget:It's easy to say "who the hell would catch me?" But it's actually far more insidious than you think.
If for are stopped or arrested for any reason they can and will search everything you have. And a prosecutor is then free at solely their own discretion to prosecute you for something stupid.
And searching computers and cell phones of someone suspected of well.. anything.. is becoming more and more common place. Even if you are not suspected of any crime whatsoever and want to take a commercial flight.
Uumm yea, sure, a cop or a prosecutor will know what they are looking at when searching an unlocked phone. Well that is if they even bother to look at that part. 
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"I like to refer to myself as an Adult Film Efficienato." - Stuart Bondek | |
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| | | | | |  SmokeyI'd rather be skiingPremium
join:2003-05-20
Wild West
·Verizon Wireless..
| Re: Fines? As a cop who does search phones and would know what I'm looking at, I can say... I have bigger fish to fry if I'm looking at your cell phone than did you unlock it without permission.
While that can not be said outright for every agency or case, I really doubt you will see many prosecution for this violation.
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Para Bellum!! | |
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| | | | | | | KearnstdElf WizardPremium
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ | Re: Fines? said by Smokey:As a cop who does search phones and would know what I'm looking at, I can say... I have bigger fish to fry if I'm looking at your cell phone than did you unlock it without permission.
While that can not be said outright for every agency or case, I really doubt you will see many prosecution for this violation.
I get the feeling if a suspect's cell is being searched by you they have possibly done something far worse than violating the DMCA.
But I wonder, If it was found a phone was unlocked after the cutoff date, Would a DA would toss that in too just because they can? | |
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| | | | | | | | SmokeyI'd rather be skiingPremium
join:2003-05-20
Wild West Reviews:
·Verizon Wireless..
| Re: Fines? That is a possibility, but I don't think any of the AUSA's or DA's I deal with would go to that well. If you need to fall back on something like that in a plea deal, you really need to take another look at your case.
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Para Bellum!! | |
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| | | | | | | | | KearnstdElf WizardPremium
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ | Re: Fines? I was honestly kind of thinking that. If your evidence is so weak you need to hunt for a DMCA violation it is time to go back to your evidence again.
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[65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports | |
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| | | | | | | | said by Cthen:said by Taget:It's easy to say "who the hell would catch me?" But it's actually far more insidious than you think.
If for are stopped or arrested for any reason they can and will search everything you have. And a prosecutor is then free at solely their own discretion to prosecute you for something stupid.
And searching computers and cell phones of someone suspected of well.. anything.. is becoming more and more common place. Even if you are not suspected of any crime whatsoever and want to take a commercial flight.
Uumm yea, sure, a cop or a prosecutor will know what they are looking at when searching an unlocked phone. Well that is if they even bother to look at that part. Oh they will search everything including your online activities my intentionally naive friend and if they find as much as a speck of illegality they will throw the book at you and even if its not illegal, they will use it to portray you are a bad person.
By the way, cases are packaged for a DA/Prosecutor by a long line of technology competent private firms, technicians and forensic investigators who know exactly what they're doing. | |
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| | | | | | | clone
join:2000-12-11
Portage, IN | Re: Fines? So they can tell if the unlock code you entered came from the carrier or a third-party website, huh?
I call bullshit. | |
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| | | | | | | | If they think you might have done something wrong they will search everything for any possible violation to throw as much at you as possible so that you'll plead.
Even if they don't think you've done the other stuff they will still have a way to get something for the tally sheet so it looks like they didnt competely waste their time.
Now you can argue whether or not they'd bother or waste their time. The problem is that is not up to you. And laws that make someone harmless of doing what most people agree should be allowed but have largish potential penalties are dangerous. Just look at Aaron Swartz. He had the bad luck of being prosecuted by someone looking to climb the political ladder. Discretion does not always work to your favor. | |
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| Dream KillerGraveyard ShiftPremium
join:2002-08-09
Forest Hills, NY
kudos:1 | In all honesty though, some carriers deserve it. Stock ROMs on Verizon Android phones is probably the worst I've seen. | |
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| | Reviews:
·RoadRunner Cable
| Re: Fines? That's a huge part of the problem - that's not even part of the 'unlocking' issue. From an OS ROM level, items that the carriers have (bugs/patches/upgrades) that they won't release are a huge issue. Bad ROMs remind me of 'CarrierIQ'.
Locking is making the device carrier tied (i.e. can't take an AT&T tablet to T-Mobile or Verizon even after I finish my contract). I'll just have to buy from a vendor outside the country | |
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| | | | | Re: Fines? or you could stop buying devices from carriers. That would be the smart choice. | |
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| | | | Reviews:
·RoadRunner Cable
| Re: Fines? In general - yes... that's the solution.
Apple / Google do sell their devices unlocked.
As you get into LTE, it gets a little complicated for purchasing unlocked devices, as carriers are setting devices to be incompatible with others by carrier band. This reminds me of purchasing 'global' (read non-north America) spec'd GSM phones that did not have the 850MHz band. If you were on T-Mobile - you were fine... on AT&T or an 850MHz roamer, you may have been out of luck.
Carriers are performing this with 700MHz bands as well as a few others. Some devices will not support portions of 700MHz bands for competing carriers. | |
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| | | |  pikePremium,MVM
join:2001-02-01
Washington, DC
kudos:3 | said by ArrayList:That would be the smart choice.
Is it really smart to pay the same monthly service fee as those that are receiving a subsidized phone? I don't think so.
So far, only T-Mobile discounts monthly service for bring your own device. And their wireless coverage is lacking. | |
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| | rradina
join:2000-08-08
Chesterfield, MO | You might be talking about "jail breaking" instead of "unlocking". Although they sound similar, they are different. One breaks the lock the manufacturer puts on the phone to prevent a customer from installing custom "unapproved" software. The other breaks the phone's tie to a specific carrier so that it can be used with another carrier's compatible system. So far I understand the first is still legal provided the customization does not break the carrier tie or you continue to use the phone with the carrier through which it was subsidized. | |
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 cdruGo ColtsPremium,MVM
join:2003-05-14
Fort Wayne, IN
kudos:7 | Wait a sec... ...you mean to tell me a White House petition just passed the buck to someone else, and didn't actually make a bit of difference? Color me shocked! | |
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|  Camelot OnePremium,MVM
join:2001-11-21
Greenwood, IN
kudos:1 | Re: Wait a sec... said by cdru:...you mean to tell me a White House petition just passed the buck to someone else, and didn't actually make a bit of difference? Color me shocked!
Oh come on now. Everyone knows, when you really want a problem solved, you send it to the US Congress. 
--
Intel i7-2600k /ASRock P67 Extreme4 /4x 4Gb G.Skill /2x Intel 510 series 250Gb SSD /3x WD20EADS 2TB /2x PNY GTX 260 /Silverstone 850W /Custom water cooler /Antec Twelve-Hundred | |
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| | | Just out of curiosity where does the color "shocked" fall on the color spectrum? | |
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| |  John GaltForward, MarchPremium
join:2004-09-30
Happy Camp
kudos:5 | Re: Wait a sec... said by Skippy25:Just out of curiosity where does the color "shocked" fall on the color spectrum?
It varies from red to electric blue, with some gray to black smoke thrown for contrast.  | |
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| | cdruGo ColtsPremium,MVM
join:2003-05-14
Fort Wayne, IN
kudos:7 | said by Skippy25:Just out of curiosity where does the color "shocked" fall on the color spectrum?
It's between ultrared and infrablue.
"Color me" means "I am" or "I was" and usually as a result of a unexpected outcome. Other examples would be "color me surprised" or the late 80s/early 90s group Color Me Badd. | |
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 BF69Premium
join:2004-07-28
Camden, TN | What else is the White House to do? You act as if Obama can just change the law. Sorry he's President not King. He doesn't rule by decree. CONGRESS makes the laws so if a law needs to be changed it's CONGRESS that has to do it. People like to give the President( no matter who it is ) more power than he actually has. The only time a president has power these days is if he has his party in charge of the House and a 60 member filibuster proof majority in the Senate AND even with those the members of his party in agreement with what he wants. Which is not always the case when Congress is more worried about being re-elected that placating to the President even if he's a member of the same party. | |
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|  jester121Premium
join:2003-08-09
Lake Zurich, IL | Re: What else is the White House to do? You haven't been following the news much for the past few years, have you? | |
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| | | | Re: What else is the White House to do? I guess all of those executive orders he's done has blown right past him.. | |
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| | BF69Premium
join:2004-07-28
Camden, TN | said by jester121:You haven't been following the news much for the past few years, have you?
yes I do but I also have read the US Constitution and passed Civics class. | |
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| | | | | Re: What else is the White House to do? We'll you're a step ahead of the president and congress then. If only they would read it and uphold it too!! | |
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| Reviews:
 ·OregonFAST.net
| said by BF69:You act as if Obama can just change the law. Sorry he's President not King. He doesn't rule by decree. CONGRESS makes the laws so if a law needs to be changed it's CONGRESS that has to do it.
Curious, if only Congress can change the law, as you claim, why is the Librarian allowed to do this?
Hmmmmm ??? | |
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| | BF69Premium
join:2004-07-28
Camden, TN | Re: What else is the White House to do? said by spurious:said by BF69:You act as if Obama can just change the law. Sorry he's President not King. He doesn't rule by decree. CONGRESS makes the laws so if a law needs to be changed it's CONGRESS that has to do it.
Curious, if only Congress can change the law, as you claim, why is the Librarian allowed to do this? Hmmmmm ??? The Librarian is not changing the law. The Librarian is acting in according to the power CONGRESS( not the President ) gave them. | |
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| | BF69Premium
join:2004-07-28
Camden, TN | Re: What else is the White House to do? Too bad that doesn't apply in this case. | |
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| CXM_SplicerLooking at the bigger picturePremium
join:2011-08-11
NYC
kudos:1 | Actually, for this, it is the librarian of congress who is appointed by the president. | |
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| | | | Re: What else is the White House to do? Yes the Librarian of Congress is appointed by the President but the Library of CONGRESS is a CONGRESSIONAL department; it is NOT part of the Executive. And the Copyright Office is part of the Library of CONGRESS. You know, separation of powers and all that?
The President also appoints Commissioners to the FCC, but the FCC is an independent agency under Congressional oversight; it is not part of the Executive Branch. | |
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| | | CXM_SplicerLooking at the bigger picturePremium
join:2011-08-11
NYC
kudos:1 Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
| Re: What else is the White House to do? said by txpatriot :Yes the Librarian of Congress is appointed by the President but the Library of CONGRESS is a CONGRESSIONAL department; it is NOT part of the Executive. And the Copyright Office is part of the Library of CONGRESS. You know, separation of powers and all that?
The President also appoints Commissioners to the FCC, but the FCC is an independent agency under Congressional oversight; it is not part of the Executive Branch.
Sorry but if the President asks for your resignation you are done. If it is well known that the resignation was requested for a specific reason do you really think the next appointee is going to refuse the same request? Separation nothing... President says 'jump' and they ask 'how high?' | |
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| | | | | | Re: What else is the White House to do? said by CXM_Splicer:Sorry but if the President asks for your resignation you are done. If it is well known that the resignation was requested for a specific reason do you really think the next appointee is going to refuse the same request? Separation nothing... President says 'jump' and they ask 'how high?'
Well since you said it it must be so. Which begs the question: why doesn't the President simply fire the Librarian of Congress? | |
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| | | | | CXM_SplicerLooking at the bigger picturePremium
join:2011-08-11
NYC
kudos:1 | Re: What else is the White House to do? Simple... because the Librarian of Congress hasn't refused the president's request. | |
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SunnyD
join:2009-03-20
Madison, AL | Something. And we expected what, exactly, from yet another administration who cares not what they can do for the people, but what the people can put into their pockets. | |
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| | We The People ... Clearly that only refers to those non-persons called corporations, who have the status of registered voters yet can't vote, but can donate piles of cash to control all branches of the government.
I think the whole idea of allowing that to happen violates the Constitution. Letting corporate America dictate the freedoms of U.S. citizens is SO wrong. It's a Plutocracy, not a Democracy. | |
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| | Change We can believe in! | |
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|  bigunkGort, Klattu Birada Nikto
join:2001-02-10
USA | Re: Change Typical sheik hussein obama white house. Non-committal, non-governing. He'll never govern because that means his name will be on policy. If his name is on policy, he's responsible for it.
If it doesn't have anything to do with raising taxes, he'll kick the can.
--
"Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusionary, illogical minority, which is rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, who holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end." | |
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| | This just in: "We're just doing our job!" »www.loc.gov/today/pr/2013/13-041.html
That's pretty much the gist of their response there.
quote:
In a statement today, the Obama administration announced its view that, as a matter of telecommunications policy, consumers should be able to unlock their legally purchased cell phones for purposes of switching from one wireless carrier to another.
Both the Librarian of Congress and the Register of Copyrights value our colleagues in the administration and the thoughtful discussions we have had with them on this issue. We also agree with the administration that the question of locked cell phones has implications for telecommunications policy and that it would benefit from review and resolution in that context.
The question of locked cell phones was raised by participants in the Section 1201 rulemaking conducted between September 2011 and October 2012 by the Register of Copyrights, who in turn advises the Librarian of Congress. The rulemaking is a process spelled out by the Digital Millennium Copyright Act in which members of the public can request exemptions from the law to enable circumvention of technological protection measures. In the case of cell phones, the request was to allow circumvention of technological protection measures controlling access to copyrighted software on cell phones.
The rulemaking is a technical, legal proceeding and involves a lengthy public process. It requires the Librarian of Congress and the Register of Copyrights to consider exemptions to the prohibitions on circumvention, based on a factual record developed by the proponents and other interested parties. The officials must consider whether the evidence establishes a need for the exemption based on several statutory factors. It does not permit the U.S. Copyright Office to create permanent exemptions to the law.
As designed by Congress, the rulemaking serves a very important function, but it was not intended to be a substitute for deliberations of broader public policy.
However, as the U.S. Copyright Office has recognized many times, the 1201 rulemaking can often serve as a barometer for broader policy concerns and broader policy action. The most recent rulemaking has served this purpose.
U.S. Copyright Office Section 1201 Proceeding – www.copyright.gov/1201
White House Response – »petitions.whitehouse.gov/respons···nlocking
# # #
PR 13-041
03/04/13
ISSN 0731-3527
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CXM_SplicerLooking at the bigger picturePremium
join:2011-08-11
NYC
kudos:1 Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
| Derek Khanna on Democracy Now There was an interesting interview with Derek Khanna, one of the promoters of the petition on Democracy Now. As PapaMidnight just said, the White house has come out in favor of people being able to unlock.
Interesting side note, Derek Khanna was the House of Representatives staffer that was let go after writing a memo suggesting reform of the copyright laws because they were stifling creativity.
»www.democracynow.org/2013/3/5/wh···nlocking | |
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 AVDRespice, Adspice, ProspicePremium
join:2003-02-06
Onion, NJ
kudos:1 | SHAME SHAME
'nuff said. | |
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 ARGONAUTgot android?Premium
join:2006-01-24
New Albany, IN
kudos:1 | Hold on.. You can still root your phone, just not unlock. | |
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 JuggernautIrreverent or irrelevant?Premium
join:2006-09-05
Kelowna, BC
kudos:2 | It's HW, not SW said by PapaMidnight:In the case of cell phones, the request was to allow circumvention of technological protection measures controlling access to copyrighted software on cell phones.
It's a hardware lock, not software. Punch a code into the hardware generated screen after putting in a 'foreign' sim, and you're done.
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"I fear the day that technology will surpass our human interaction. The world will have a generation of idiots." ~ Albert Einstein | |
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Reviews:
·WOW Internet and..
| boycott the tel co's I imagine the Executive Branch spends lots of money with the tel co's best would be to boycott their sorry excuse for those telecommunications corporations, but alas they didn't word the petition properly IMO and the POTUS isn't cutting off his nose despite his face. | |
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| | Congress is File 13 Aka the garbage can. If anything comes up that you want to do but do not want responsibility for, leave it up to Congress with the understanding it will not get done. If the issue becomes popular enough, then blame Congress for not doing it... and if one branch of it is held by the opposition party, blame only that part of Congress. | |
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| | congress? lol Working with congress on this issue is like walking up the down escalator. | |
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