WiMax 2 To Be Finalized In November With deployment possible sometime in 2012 Nearly every major global telco plans to embrace LTE, a number of high profile major global WiMax supporters have either shifted from WiMax to LTE or shut down, and WiMax's poster children here in the States, Sprint and Clearwire, have both clearly stated they'll jump to LTE if the wind blows that way (and it is). That's of course not stopping the WiMax 2 (802.16m) standard from being finalized by the IEEE this November, with initial deployments potentially in 2012. Earlier this year Clearwire stated they were in no rush to test the new standard. WiMax 2 can deliver 120 Mbps downstream and 60 Mbps upstream by using a 4X2 MIMO antenna configuration with a single 20 MHz TDD channel.
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 | | Maybe it will be good for the wISP Maybe this will be useful to wISPs. Maybe it will have the ability to make it through a reasonable amount of trees and it's in a band that's not shared with consumer products. | |
|  | | | | | | Re: Maybe it will be good for the wISP WISPs can use WiMax. They just don't. They just have to use 3.5 and file paper work at the FCC for $250 and boom. done deal if they're area is premitted to do so. | |
| | | |  baineschile2600 ways to livePremium
join:2008-05-10
Sterling Heights, MI | Re: Maybe it will be good for the wISP what | |
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| | Wimax 2 Nice, but too little too late. Either merge with TD-LTE or scrap it.
Sprint and Clearwire are in a dill of a pickle right now and billions in WiMax notwithstanding, they should junk WiMax and go FD-LTE in 1900 MHz, and TD-LTE in 2500-2600. Too bad for the EVO, Epic and WiMax modems, but that's the way orphaned tech goes. After the transition, they should merge with T-Mobile, which should roll out the same LTE tech as sprint, perhaps with the addition of FD-LTE in the AWS 1700 bands. | |
| |  vpokoPremium
join:2003-07-03
Boston, MA | Re: Wimax 2 said by podstolom:After the transition, they should merge with T-Mobile, which should roll out the same LTE tech as sprint, perhaps with the addition of FD-LTE in the AWS 1700 bands. Because what we need is even fewer carriers...? | |
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2 edits | Re: Wimax 2 said by vpoko:said by podstolom:After the transition, they should merge with T-Mobile, which should roll out the same LTE tech as sprint, perhaps with the addition of FD-LTE in the AWS 1700 bands. Because what we need is even fewer carriers...? I know right? The few people on here who seem downright excited about a T-Mobile and Sprint merger seem to lack a basic understanding of how "competition" or a "competitive market" actually works. Cricket announced it's going national (finally! although they're mostly running on Sprint's network), with roaming agreements on 40 carriers, so we'll finally get a pseudo-5th competitor, which should bring down prices.... unless there's a merger. Lightsquared's LTE network would make for another major player. If the FCC can just hold out enough to veto any applications for wireless mergers we might have some real competition in the market in a few years. | |
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 ·WOW Internet and..
| Re: Wimax 2 the funny thing about Cricket is they sold a good chunk of their coverage area of Ohio to Revol/NorthCost PCS about 10years ago. It's funny to see them come back and actually compete with them. Especially since Revol is a roaming partner of Cricket.
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| | | | | | | Re: Wimax 2 LTE could end up in a mess. It's on over a dozen bands around the world so the notion of global roaming is just about impossible - there may be regional roaming however. WiMAX is mostly on 3 bands around the world and already covers 600M population and may hit 1B soon if India is still on board. Global roaming on WiMAX is much much more likely.
WiMAX chipsets are only $24 or so and should hit under $15 this year. LTE is about $120 per device if I recall. Yes, LTE will go down with economies of scale (EOS) but WiMAX will likely have a stronghold before LTE hits EOS.
WiMAX is also IEEE so it's easier for a consumer electronics companies to just drop in an approved WiMAX chipset. For LTE, they have to get it approved by the carrier AND the device telcom industry completely controls that device. Do you really want that?
The telcom industry WILL go LTE, but CableCos will want WiMAX since it's IEEE. There is room for both just as there was room for both DSL and cable modem. This isn't a BluRay/HD-DVD thing where it's best for one to survive.
Let's hope that Clear and India stick with WiMAX in the long haul as it will gain momentum from there even though LTE undoubtedly will as well. Clear has enough spectrum do both. | |
| | | | | | | | Re: Wimax 2 Clear will keep their WiMax. it's the only thing that will give them what they need and want. The Telco's won't allow them to have LTE. | |
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| Sammer
join:2005-12-22
Canonsburg, PA | said by podstolom:Nice, but too little too late. Either merge with TD-LTE or scrap it. But is there really any point to TD-LTE other than to marginalize the more open standard WiMAX? It looks like most future 4G TDD equipment other than SIM cards (not necessary for WiMAX) will be compatible with both WiMAX and TD-LTE. | |
| | | Ulmo
join:2005-09-22
San Jose, CA Reviews:
 ·SONIC.NET
| Re: Wimax 2 Good point: it will be easier to license for LTE and throw in WiMax as an also-have, than it will be to put in WiMax and then throw in LTE as an option not often used.
The question becomes how much control consumers have with their wallets, when most don't pay attention to this stuff. This is where the market may help sway this discussion a bit, just by itself. | |
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| and we should scrap WiMax why? I don't see LTE out in the field yet. I see it in a lab with no devices even ready to be used. LTE is nothing but VZ's PR Hype machine until its out in the public and there are actual end user devices that can be purchased.
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| |  jmn1207Premium
join:2000-07-19
Ashburn, VA | I don't get your point. WiMax is still going strong NOW. Sprint is deploying their 4G as quickly as they can, and reports of new 4G signals are being reported daily. People seem to think that WiMax and LTE is an either-or solution, but things are not so clear in this regard. WiMax and LTE can certainly coexist, and having a WiMax radio is just a bonus for any device going forward, even after LTE matures.
Any device that is using WiMax now is probably being used on a 2 year contract, at most, such as the EVO, Epic, or any of the 4G modems. It works NOW, and the coverage is increasing. Who cares if the technology is dropped for LTE later? It's not going away tomorrow, and anyone that is enjoying WiMax NOW should not have any trouble continuing to use this technology for the remaining duration of their contract and beyond.
Sprint has already stated that LTE would probably fit into their plans as part of their evolution into the future.
It's not likely that the typical EVO or Epic buyer is the type of person that buys a new device to keep for 5 years. Most of these people will be looking to get the next best thing as soon as an upgrade is available. With Sprint, most will be eligible for an upgrade in 12 months. In fact, anyone that purchased an EVO or Epic should qualify for an upgrade after 1 year, unless their credit is poor or they are late with their monthly bill payments.
Don't make the mistake of thinking that Sprint has to choose between WiMax and LTE, or that by using WiMax now that they have taken the wrong path from which there can be no recovery. This is not the case and I believe you have it wrong. | |
| | | Ulmo
join:2005-09-22
San Jose, CA Reviews:
·SONIC.NET
| Re: Wimax 2 Interesting. I looked at WiMax coverage just now, and it looks like they're deploying in the "don't bother me" areas of I-5 in central California (cities around flatland rivers surrounded by farmland -- most coverage in urban areas -- Lodi, Stockton, Tracy, Modesto, and on down -- those areas where a lot of workers moved to become long-distance commuters when housing prices were so high they had to choose cheaper markets -- and probably where housing is still cheap, and making new antennas is probably easier, and less mobbed up??). They haven't touched old main urban cores and their surroundings (coastal, San Francisco, San Jose, Sacramento, etc.). | |
| | | | jmn1207Premium
join:2000-07-19
Ashburn, VA | Re: Wimax 2 If you were using something official to check for WiMax coverage, it might not be too telling. Sprint is very cautious with regards to 4G coverage mapping, and I've seen for myself and have read on the Android/Sprint forums where people have been getting 4G signals in cities not even listed yet as "coming soon". As an example, I was recently visiting family in Orlando, and there were sections around town that we could get 4G.
Until a large city is mostly wired, the service is spotty, but chances are good that WiMax is present and growing in most major cities, even if there is no official word about the deployment. | |
| | | | | | | Re: Wimax 2 Yeah man i have experienced that same thing and i immediately went to themap and saw i wasn't in a "4g" area but was still hitting it, and nice consistent speeds too, crazy. | |
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| | | | | said by Ulmo: They haven't touched old main urban cores and their surroundings (coastal, San Francisco, San Jose, Sacramento, etc.). Clearwire is in the works deploying WiMAX in CA metro areas right now and is unofficially active in some areas. Suppose to be officially announced by end of year. There is _significant_ deployment going on, just not officially available yet. | |
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| fiberguyMy views are my own.Premium
join:2005-05-20
kudos:3 | said by podstolom:Nice, but too little too late. Either merge with TD-LTE or scrap it. Sprint and Clearwire are in a dill of a pickle right now and billions in WiMax notwithstanding, they should junk WiMax and go FD-LTE in 1900 MHz, and TD-LTE in 2500-2600. Thanks - I needed a good laugh today - tough Friday here. 
So really, "too little, too late" huh? Tell me.. WiMax.. LTE... who's got more coverage out there and who's actively running which service? hrmmm.. Sounds to me like WiMax is in deployment AND in use, and where is LTE?
People said coax cable was dead years ago too and DOCSIS 2.0 was too little too late as well.. now we're up to DS3.0 and my speeds here are upwards 100Mb.. where's DSL?
Why should they junk WiMax? I don't don't see where you're coming from on that. It's up, it's running... it's deployed and it hold a LOT of promise to a lot of applications.. and where is LTE again? .. yea.. .thanks!
So why should they go LTE.. because everyone else is? .. yea, that's a reason.. that's usually what everyone says to do. I dunno about you, but I like variety, I like diversity, and most of all, I, like so many around here, like CHOICE and OPTIONS. If everything were the same, I guess there really isn't that choice and option.
Guys - get over it, STOP calling for the death of things becuase you have no idea what you're asking for when you do. EVEN the worse of the worst have to exist or the so called "best of the rest" won't be so "best" if there isn't someone pushing on their heels.
So please.. you want everything to be the same, you want no consumer options, or choice, or competition, then please, by all means, support the survival of BBR and continue calling for the death of everything.. | |
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1 edit | Re: Wimax 2 So really, "too little, too late" huh? Tell me.. WiMax.. LTE... who's got more coverage...Yes. Early adopters of WiMax, e.g. Yota of Russia, are dropping WiMax like a fawn drops spots.
Why should they junk WiMax? I don't don't see where you're coming from on that.Two reasons: (1) Economies of production, and (2) interoperability. Major manufacturers of Wi-Max equipment have wholly or in part switched to manufacture of LTE equipment. Yota saw the light early, and decided to go LTE in order to ensure interoperability and compatibility with what is clearly the emerging 4G standard to be deployed in both Europe and Asia.
So why should they go LTE.. because everyone else is? Yes. The problem with "competition and consumer choice" as venerated and sanctified here in the US is too much inefficiency and redundancy in incompatible technologies and network buildouts serving the same customer base. This is not the case in Europe or Asia. Buy one phone at retail, use it on any network in any country simply by swapping SIM card. Convenience and universality trumps consumer choice here as a matter of public service.
So please.. you want everything to be the same, you want no consumer options, or choice, or competition, then please, by all means, support the survival of BBR and continue calling for the death of everything.. Exactly. You got my point just fine, although I don't advocate the death of "everything", just incompatible redundant technology, which at this point, is what WiMax is. Now as I said, EITHER merge OR scrap. I assert that TD-LTE and WiMax are similar enough that IF they can effectively MERGE into a common universal standard, then fine. That will keep EVOs and 4G modems from obsolescence before EOL. If not, then the redundant tech should be scrapped before the now nascent avalanche of LTE deployment overwhelms 802.16m and renders it obsolete by fiat.
BTW, none of the points in my original post are by any means original with me. Intel has advocated the merger of WiMax and LTE. Sprint has said it is open to mergers with T-Mobile provided they both employ common LTE technology on merged networks. Whith that said, the defense rests. (And no, I am NOT a lawyer lol).
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| | | | Sammer
join:2005-12-22
Canonsburg, PA
1 edit | Re: Wimax 2 said by podstolom:I assert that TD-LTE and WiMax are similar enough that IF they can effectively MERGE into a common universal standard, then fine. That will keep EVOs and 4G modems from obsolescence before EOL. If not, then the redundant tech should be scrapped before the now nascent avalanche of LTE deployment overwhelms 802.16m and renders it obsolete by fiat. They are similar enough and it appears the equipment manufacturers will merge the two standards (at least de facto) whether the ITU and IEEE want them to or not. The real problem isn't the incompatibility of TD-LTE and WiMAX but of Frequency Division Duplex cellular networks (GSM/HSPA, CDMA/EVDO, FD-LTE) and Time Division Duplex cellular networks. TD-LTE is never going to be a universal standard whether or not it is merged with WiMAX. | |
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| Ulmo
join:2005-09-22
San Jose, CA | There's the big issue that LTE is not IEEE. | |
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 rv65Ban Cat DeclawingPremium
join:2008-08-02
USA!!!!
kudos:1 | WiMax complications WiMax is an over complicated spec and it has some issues, with walls. I know people who have worked on WiMax. | |
| | Sammer
join:2005-12-22
Canonsburg, PA | Re: WiMax complications said by rv65:WiMax is an over complicated spec and it has some issues, with walls. Any mobile cellular service that uses frequencies of 2.3 GHz or higher is going to have issues with walls. LTE is also a very complicated spec but the advantages of 4G won't arrive without going through some growing pains. WiMAX 2 will be much better than the current mobile WiMAX and even if it is relegated to niche status (the real "WiFi on steroids") there will be some who will benefit greatly from those niches. | |
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| long range consumer router? there probably is a niche market for a router that can have coverage for about 4 metro city blocks from inside a building. wimax should work on that, because large scale commerical deployment isn't going anywhere fast and sprint better join the bandwagon of lte before its too late. there is little doubt that the one company who uses another technology besides lte will be left without a chair with subscribers because they want all handsets using ONE-TWO radio technologies (wifi being the other), not 3 or 4. | |
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