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WildBlue Upgrades Coming?
Customers hope ViaSat acquisition means better service...
by Karl Bode Wednesday 02-Dec-2009 tags: satellite · business · alternatives · bandwidth · WildBlue
If you're outside the range of terrestrial options, your only choice for broadband is a satellite broadband provider. Unfortunately, as our user reviews for Wild Blue and HughesNet will tell you -- satellite broadband barely earns the broadband title as it suffers from high latency, slow speeds, and very high prices. The expensive and limited capacity of satellite broadband also means the service often comes with very high usage caps. These caps are called "fair access policies" or FAPs by carriers, are usually very low, and if crossed can result in your satellite connection being throttled back to below dial up speeds.

Even with these low caps satellite carriers have struggled to provide adequate capacity, and both HughesNet and WildBlue users have complained for several years now that they frequently don't get anything close to the speed they're paying for. A few years back Wild Blue had to stop signing up new customers because they could barely service the customers they had. But customers hope things are changing with the recent news that ViaSat has acquired WildBlue. ViaSat is sending e-mails to customers highlighting the fact that the satellite operator will be launching the ViaSat-1 satellite in 2011.

ViaSat is claiming that ViaSat-1 is aimed at meeting bandwidth demands and stopping the cycle of congestion and capped subscriber growth, and offers more capacity than "all current North American satellites combined." ViaSat-1 is designed to host more than a million subscribers, according to the company, and holds ten times the throughput of any other Ka-band satellite. With in orbit costs per gigabyte reduced significantly, hopefully this means some relief for WildBlue customers.

Of course they'll have to wait until 2011 or later to get it. Meanwhile, it has been interesting to watch both WildBlue and HughesNet lobby Uncle Sam for broadband stimulus funds, with their apparent pitch literally being "hey, we're not that bad."

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Mr Matt

join:2008-01-29
Eustis, FL
kudos:1

Are Wild Blue and HughesNet space cadets?

After all of the previous broken promises I hope their customers are not disappointed!

baineschile
2600 ways to live
Premium
join:2008-05-10
Sterling Heights, MI

Re: Are Wild Blue and HughesNet space cadets?

Great. From absolulety horrendous to barely tolerable. What an upgrade!
Spice300
Premium
join:2006-01-10

3 edits

Re: Are Wild Blue and HughesNet space cadets?

Wildblue started out excellent with high ratings. They even won an award here at BBR for excellent customer reviews. Then the CEO who was a tech guy was replaced with a money guy. Wildblue systematically degraded the service by reducing our cap and making the punishment for FAP violations harsher. They added the DAMA scheduler which doubled the latency from about 600 ms to 1,200 ms ruining the ability to play games. The DAMA scheduler freed upload time slots allowing them to pack more customers onto popular spot beams. They refuse to give priority to VOIP packets preventing Internet telephones from working. They pack their popular spot beams full of customers until service slows down to a crawl during prime time. They have been reluctant or just plain slow to upgrade their gateways to serve more customers. They refuse to admit when they have technical problems often blaming the customer instead (power cycle modem, its your router, run virus scan, etc.). They increased the price of their packages on popular beams and advertise special low rates on lightly used spot beams. They increased the service commitment from one year to two years.

The problems with residential satellite Internet are caused by greed, not technical limitations. ViaSat might be different, and pigs might fly.
--
Value Pack, beam 31, Riverside gateway

cameronsfx

join:2009-01-08
Panama City, FL
Iowa Review:

"Yeah, I got that wildblue internet after some door-to-door salesman came by. It is slower than watching cow . Can't download my emails, can't get no crop reports, can't watch no Youtube. Directv is great. Wildblue sucks. $1000 to install and like $150 a month. We'll. finally at the end of my contract so I cancelled it. My whole family enjoyed shooting at that dish. I also enjoyed finding that salesman and shooting at him. His fancy car is full of holes. Just wish I could shoot down their satellite. We sent the pieces of that dish to wildblue's CEO. Hope he burns in hell."

DataRiker
Premium
join:2002-05-19
00000

Not Broadband

Satellite should not be able to advertise as "broadband" since it has less capacity then 56K when you account for the FAP's
iansltx

join:2007-02-19
Golden, CO
kudos:2

Re: Not Broadband

If I remember correctly WB and HN nominally stay above 56k during FAP periods. That said, if you can get 3G you shouldn't be using WB, unless you can't get Sprint or T-Mobile 3G and use more than 5GB per month but less than WB's caps.

BF69
Premium
join:2004-07-28
Camden, TN

Re: Not Broadband

said by iansltx:

If I remember correctly WB and HN nominally stay above 56k during FAP periods. That said, if you can get 3G you shouldn't be using WB, unless you can't get Sprint or T-Mobile 3G and use more than 5GB per month but less than WB's caps.
5 GB is nothing and Verizon charges $51.20 per GB overage an at&t charges $503 per GB. Mos tpeole that live in teh bbonies wher satelite is the only option don't live in areas covered by Sprint or T-Mobile or at&t for that mattter when it comes ot 3G.

At least on their $80 plan wildblue's cap is 17000 MB download and 5000 MB upload which still sucks but is a lot better than 5 GB TOTAL. Also if you go over your speed is just cut down you're not charged outrageous overage fees.
iansltx

join:2007-02-19
Golden, CO
kudos:2

Re: Not Broadband

OTOH if you can get Sprint $70 gets you unlimited 3G. WHole lot better than WB any way you slice it.

BF69
Premium
join:2004-07-28
Camden, TN

Re: Not Broadband

said by iansltx:

OTOH if you can get Sprint $70 gets you unlimited 3G. WHole lot better than WB any way you slice it.
A) Sprint in only in a very small area of the country. People like my friends can't get Sprint of ANY kind let alone 3G.

B) I can 100% gaurantee you it's not "unlimited"
iansltx

join:2007-02-19
Golden, CO
kudos:2

Re: Not Broadband

A) I didn't say it was everywhere

B) I guarantee you that you can push more data over the MBB connection than WB or HN, which is the operative deal.

Simba7

join:2003-03-24
Billings, MT

Re: Not Broadband

..like he said.. There's a 5GB Cap with ANY provider (except Alltel). I love their definition of "Unlimited", when it's not even close.

If you go above that 5GB cap, be prepared to bend over and take it.
iansltx

join:2007-02-19
Golden, CO
kudos:2
Reviews:
·Comcast
·Verizon Online DSL

Re: Not Broadband

You're buying from the wrong vendor.

T-Mobile and Sprint both offer volume purchase programs at below $60 per month that don't have the cap. If you don't want to buy in bulk, Millenicom offers T-Mobile and Sprint service for $70 per month for unlimited of either, and I've been talking with a company that will probably hit $60 per month on T-Mobile based service.

Though T-Mobile has a very small 3G footprint at this point, Sprint doesn't; you may have to spend a couple hundred bucks on a 2.4 GHz grid antenna and 3W amp to get a solid signal, but you'd be surprised at the number of places where a SPrint 3G signal is available.

Trust me, I have my facts straight. I have a friend who's on MCom with a Sprint card; hasn't heard a peep from MCom about his usage and I believe he uses a few dozen GB per month, more than the local WISP would allow and more than sat internet would provide without a FAP.
jblack627

join:2009-12-01
Ardmore, OK
I think you can consider an ISP that has an FAP and throttles broadband. But if It can't preform broadband speeds without the FAP, which it *doesn't* it should not be considered broadband. the FCC needs to stop considering it broadband.
iansltx

join:2007-02-19
Golden, CO
kudos:2
Reviews:
·Comcast
·Verizon Online DSL

Wonder what the speeds/caps will be

I know that some people complained of WB cutting all plans by 25% while back. Maybe they'll give everyone back that 25%. The caps are still quite low but that would be an extra few GB...

I'd also expect speeds to increase, particularly on the low end. I'm sure they'll up the 512k tier to 768k, because they've talked about that before on the stimulus package side of things. Maybe upgrade 512/128 to 768/200. I hope for the sake of everyone stuck on WB that they'll also upgrade their other tiers (1024/200 and 1500/256) to maybe 1500/384 and 2000/512, respectively, though I'm not sure how wel their sat system can handle upload speeds higher than 256k :/
chuzziii
Premium
join:2009-12-01
Westport, NY

good luck

they will just sign up more people and give less service

Hpower
Roflmao

join:2000-06-08
Glendale, CA
Reviews:
·Charter

1 edit

Wildlagblue?

Upgrades...hah. These guys should be avoided like the plague.

I swear these guys are horrible with their caps and speeds. Might as well stick to 56gay and have no caps. They really make you PAY for not being able to get broadband. I'd NEVER go with these guys. HORRIBLE LATENCY time if you EVER think about playing a game online. The reviews about them tells you everything prety much.

haha that link with the approach "hey, we're not that bad" made me giggle!!!
--
The Internet is about to go down....it is actually.

Phil
Rojo Sol
Premium
join:2001-06-11
Camarillo, CA
kudos:2

Re: Wildlagblue?

Of course there's latency as the signal has to travel to outer space and back again. Their service is definitely not for gaming.

Sircolby45

join:2005-11-26
Reviews:
·WildBlue

Re: Wildlagblue?

said by Phil:

Of course there's latency as the signal has to travel to outer space and back again. Their service is definitely not for gaming.
Yes that account for 480ms of the latency. Wildblue's pings rarely ever dip below 1100ms and are usually 1500+. That is not all satellite latency. It is mostly way to aggressive traffic shaping.(Modified version of DAMA)
--
[IMG]»img218.imageshack.us/img218/2636···3dg6.gif
Windows 7 Pro 64-Bit / Q6600 / 9800GT / 4GB RAM

BF69
Premium
join:2004-07-28
Camden, TN

Re: Wildlagblue?

said by Sircolby45:

said by Phil:

Of course there's latency as the signal has to travel to outer space and back again. Their service is definitely not for gaming.
Yes that account for 480ms of the latency. Wildblue's pings rarely ever dip below 1100ms and are usually 1500+. That is not all satellite latency. It is mostly way to aggressive traffic shaping.(Modified version of DAMA)
480ms will never be achieved. There is always going to be some inherent latency in the system that 480ms is only accounting for distance the signal has to travel. So even under idea condition satellite will never get under 550-600ms. Only way to do that is to have satelites in much lower orbits. but then you have to have many more satelites. And then you're making the system more complicated and much easier to fail.

Sircolby45

join:2005-11-26
Reviews:
·WildBlue

Re: Wildlagblue?

said by BF69:

said by Sircolby45:

said by Phil:

Of course there's latency as the signal has to travel to outer space and back again. Their service is definitely not for gaming.
Yes that account for 480ms of the latency. Wildblue's pings rarely ever dip below 1100ms and are usually 1500+. That is not all satellite latency. It is mostly way to aggressive traffic shaping.(Modified version of DAMA)
480ms will never be achieved. There is always going to be some inherent latency in the system that 480ms is only accounting for distance the signal has to travel. So even under idea condition satellite will never get under 550-600ms. Only way to do that is to have satelites in much lower orbits. but then you have to have many more satelites. And then you're making the system more complicated and much easier to fail.
I realize this. 480ms does not account for processing time etc. But the point I was trying to make is that the high latency of satellite is not just the distance the signal has to travel. A lot of it is aggressive traffic shaping.
--
[IMG]»img218.imageshack.us/img218/2636···3dg6.gif
Windows 7 Pro 64-Bit / Q6600 / 9800GT / 4GB RAM
lastmile

join:2007-09-08
Robertsville, MO

Broadband definition

Do they have a good broadband definition? Considering all the apps that either don't work or work poorly over Satellite and the many subscriber's vocal opinions, Satellite is tough argument to sell on whether is could or should be considered broadband.

The Broadband definition should include fairly consistent low-latency; i.e. sub 200ms may be be pushing it for some, 150ms or less would be great.. any lower would be even better. Satellite doesn't fit the bill.

Reliability and rain-fade is yet another argument though not as common.

And perhaps no FAP's!
Emiya

join:2006-03-30
Southington, OH

Re: Broadband definition

said by lastmile:

The Broadband definition should include fairly consistent low-latency; i.e. sub 200ms may be be pushing it for some, 150ms or less would be great.. any lower would be even better. Satellite doesn't fit the bill.
Considering the physical distance between Earth and geosynchronous satellites this is impossible with the speed of light and all. From the hub dish to space and back to earth is over 40,000 miles and that's just one way!

I work for a VSAT company and we offer speeds up to 4mbit down and 1.5mbit up wit CIR speeds of 2.5mbit/896kbit. Latency is usually around 500-700ms. No you can't game on it but we have plenty of VoiP customers (with a slight delay), VPN users, etc. Some things do not work well (VPN using IPsec in tunnel mode) due to latency and the fact that IP spoofing is used.

If you have access to terrestrial broadband services then you should use those. By nature they're going to be more reliable and a better user experience. If you don't have access then satellite service is something you may want to research and see if it will work for you.
lastmile

join:2007-09-08
Robertsville, MO

Re: Broadband definition

Agreed -- I / we understand the physical distance limitation. I don't think Satellite is a bad solution as it works for some things and some users.

In respect to the Country's broadband solution, it should be a broadband service that works for most, if not all Internet applications. I would think there is a significant number of gamers and growing numbers of VOIP users, VPN users(including IP-Sec/SSL), remote desktop, virtual office, video-conferencing, etc.. that could benefit if they had decent Internet access.

I think 200ms latency is a fair estimate and on-par with decent dial-up thus it could be a basic requirement. 3G wireless is also good but not consistent. As suggested, 500+ms would impact VOIP but if its your only alternative, then you have to deal with the delay but I would rather use the plain 'ole POTS line w/o delay.

Most Satellite packages I have seen cost significantly more than what an entry-level DSL connection would provide for 15-20.00 / month? I would think the 2.5mbit/896kbit 500-700ms latency Satellite connection is probably expensive and beyond what most people would consider to be affordable.

Why provide stimulus money to something that works only for a portion of Internet services?

I sure hope LTE holds true to some of its aspirations!
Emiya

join:2006-03-30
Southington, OH

Re: Broadband definition

They're not giving the money only to any one specific technology and they're not targeting just residential service. Satellite based broadband services can expand the possibilities of industries working in remote and isolated areas where terrestrial based communications are difficult to deploy and even more difficult to maintain like in mountains. It's also incredibly useful in areas where existing infrastructure can be easily knocked out, both for backup connections and for disaster relief.


Sircolby45

join:2005-11-26
Reviews:
·WildBlue

Don't give them a dime!!!

" it has been interesting to watch both WildBlue and HughesNet lobby Uncle Sam for broadband stimulus funds, with their apparent pitch literally being "hey, we're not that bad.""

I am pretty sure most people that are out of reach and currently using satellite will hit the roof if they give these ******** a dime. The money needs to go to a REAL broadband solution. Satellite internet technology is a joke.
--
[IMG]»img218.imageshack.us/img218/2636···3dg6.gif
Windows 7 Pro 64-Bit / Q6600 / 9800GT / 4GB RAM

r81984
Fair and Balanced
Premium
join:2001-11-14
Katy, TX
Reviews:
·AT&T U-Verse
·AT&T DSL Service
·row44

Hmmm....

It sounds like they are going to actually try to compete with carrier pigeon USB flash drives.

»www.therawfeed.com/2009/09/carri···ter.html
--
Republicans: less fiscally conservative than that other party.
jblack627

join:2009-12-01
Ardmore, OK

HughesNet

Hughesnet is slow as hell during primetime, the latency is RIDICULOUS.They also lock you into a 2 year contract, so you have to dish out huge fines if, by god's grace, actual broadband comes in your area. You can't do anything popular in the modern internet. I have AT&T 3G coverage (in my window) I put my iPhone in that window, run a cable to my TV, and that's how I stream video. I'm switching to Arbuckle Wireless (WISP) in 3 weeks. Good riddens.

RTS

@charter.com

BroadBand Status


I had Starband when it came out, still have the equipment if anyone is interested. Went to DSL then cable.

By technology standards DSL, cable, fiber, satellite are all broadband because it is not dial-up. Note not talking speeds.

I have been on some peoples cable modems and get less than dial up speeds.

All technologies have some type of cap for uploading and downloading, some greater than others. I've been told by people that Charter has a cap but Charter won't tell you what it is.

Having been in the ISP business all companies oversubscribe to what they can provide. That is how they make money.

What I hate is the expensive rates everyone is charging. I just got a notice from Charter telling me my rates will go up in Jan 2010.

Broadband access on a mass scale like ISP's purchase or peer for free with isn't going up it is all the bonuses that CEO's have to get.

To me I am paying for access, which means I should be able to use it as much as I need to and don't restrict what I can do with it, except illegal stuff. If I want to run a web server then I should be able to.

If I want VoIP from Skype then it shouldn't be blocked.

Anyway...Enough ramblings...
abod

join:2003-08-13
Ada, OH

ViaSat-1

»www.youtube.com/watch?v=88MJ0UEzftc

fonzbear2000
Premium
join:2005-08-09
Saint Paul, MN

Forget slow speed and bad latency.....

»customercare.myhughesnet.com/fap···unce.htm Those caps are HORRIBLE! When I saw "very low", I thought maybe 10-20GB, but those caps?????? It's VERY sad and pathetic how they're trying to take advantage of people who can't get cable or DSL!
--
»Please check out my friend's band

RR Conductor
Happy 40th Amtrak
Premium
join:2002-04-02
Redwood Valley, CA
kudos:1

You forgot WISP's and Cellular Broadband.

"If you're outside the range of terrestrial options, your only choice for broadband is a satellite broadband provider"

That's not true, there are WISP's and cellular broadband. We have two WISP's here in Mendocno County, WillitsOnline and Pacific Internet, and cellular broadband from Verizon and AT&T, though AT&T's is VERY limited, whereas Verizon has EVDO on their entire network.
--
You've got to stand for something, or you'll fall for anything.

tim_k
Buttons, Bows, Beamer, Shadow, Kasey
Premium,VIP
join:2002-02-02
Stewartstown, PA
kudos:8
Reviews:
·Armstrong Zoom ..

Re: You forgot WISP's and Cellular Broadband.

said by RR Conductor:

"If you're outside the range of terrestrial options, your only choice for broadband is a satellite broadband provider"

That's not true, there are WISP's and cellular broadband. We have two WISP's here in Mendocno County, WillitsOnline and Pacific Internet, and cellular broadband from Verizon and AT&T, though AT&T's is VERY limited, whereas Verizon has EVDO on their entire network.
Those are still terrestrial options.

I never had much of a problem with WB's FAP, it's certainly better than the 5 GB of most EVDO providers. Sprint through Millenicom is "suppose" to be 'unlimited' for an extra $10/mo.
--
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