Search:  

 
 
   News
newer
story category Will DOCSIS 3.0 Really Reach Rural America?
Opinion: not buying the latest coverage meme
(old news - 12:04PM Wednesday Mar 11 2009)
tags: coverage · business · bandwidth · Op/Ed · cable
Since the cable industry's TV footprint extends to nearly 90% or more of America (the industry's independently unverified numbers), there seems to be a new meme mysteriously circulating that assumes DOCSIS 3.0 upgrades will soon be everywhere. That's the general consensus of a new Pike and Fisher report that claims that blisteringly fast cable DOCSIS 3.0 speeds will be "available to nearly all of their customers within the next five years."

That optimism is largely driven by Comcast's promise to deploy DOCSIS 3.0 to all of their customers by the end of 2010 (and 65% by the end of this year), and since Comcast services about half of all cable customers in the country, that's considered a solid base. Analysts then assume that all other carriers, including Cox, Time Warner Cable and soon-to-be-bankrupt Charter Communications will slowly deploy the technology to everyone by 2013.

Of course, nobody seems to talk about what drove cable into all of those rural American neighborhoods in the first place: those "annoying" local franchise authorities the phone companies just got done dismantling so they could avoid having to deploy telcoTV to less profitable portions of rural America. With fairly weak state-level franchise agreements now the norm, and no telcoTV competition that can't be handled by DOCSIS 2.0, what pushes cable the extra mile? That's where Pike takes time out of their analysis to lobby for cable stimulus funds:
The Silver Spring, Md.-based research house also predicts that DOCSIS 3.0 will garner a lot of support from government officials distributing funds from the economic stimulus package. "Considering the massive bandwidth increases that will be enabled by upgrading DOCSIS 2.0 to 3.0, the government is likely to view DOCSIS 3.0 as a most feasible and affordable near-term solution to perceived bandwidth scarcities," says P&F Chief Analyst Tim McElgunn.
Of course, relatively speaking, DOCSIS 3.0 upgrades are cheap in comparison to running fiber to the home, so carriers may just upgrade for the the hell of it. But we've all-too-frequently watched carriers leave certain markets in upgrade purgatory (the now sold "Middle America Cox," or MAC markets come to mind). There's a growing trend (among cable and phone companies alike) of selling these unwanted less profitable rural markets to companies who can barely run last-gen networks, much less afford next-generation upgrades.

In full historical context, this new argument that DOCSIS 3.0 is going to soon be available to "nearly" everybody seems both naive and blindly optimistic. The question is: how big will DOCSIS 3.0's coverage gap be? 15% of cable customers left un-upgraded? 30%? What's your guess?

Related:
  1. Verizon Continues Proud History Of Denial
  2. One Last Warning Before America Screws Up Broadband Mapping
  3. Time Warner Cable GETS MORE EXTREME!!!
  4. Verizon: We're Not Setting Broadband Definition Bar Low
  5. What Network Neutrality Is REALLY About
  6. Getting Your Cable Carrier To Go That Extra Mile
  7. Charter Offers 60 Mbps In California
  8. Comcast Slammed For Non-Existent Throttling Changes
Forums » Will DOCSIS 3.0 Really Reach Rural America?
view: topics flat text 
Post a:
barn25

join:2005-11-17
Springfield, IL

America will never be fully wired

Hmm from my experience in the matter having both lived in cities and country towns id say about 30 to 40 percent dont have broadband. When it comes to a country as a whole
jester121

join:2003-08-09
Lake Zurich, IL

Re: America will never be fully wired

Do you work for the FCC? That sounds like one of their metrics.

jadebangle
Premium
join:2007-05-22
Olathe, KS
·SureWest Internet
·AT&T Yahoo
·Comcast

said by barn25 See Profile :

Hmm from my experience in the matter having both lived in cities and country towns id say about 30 to 40 percent dont have broadband. When it comes to a country as a whole
Thats only true if you refuse to wire everyone
Even someone in alaska can be wired for 100mbps Fiber OPTIC Broadband
me1212

join:2008-11-20
Pleasant Hill, MO
·VOIPo

Maybe america should stop tryiing to be the most wired.

And be the least wired. AKA all wireless, I recall seeing that verizon was working on getting 60m down to it wireless costumers, maybe every1 should. Then they would not have to pay to run wires everywhere, they could just put up a tower where ever the main internet "hubs" are. Easier to maintain from a certain point of view, you do not have to look for a break in the miles of wiring just on the tower, or in the stuff going to said tower.

wifi4milez
Big Russ, 1918 to 2008. Rest in Peace

join:2004-08-07
New York, NY
·Verizon FIOS
·Sprint Mobile Broa..
·RoadRunner Cable
·BroadVoice

Re: Maybe america should stop tryiing to be the most wired.

said by me1212 See Profile :

And be the least wired. AKA all wireless, I recall seeing that verizon was working on getting 60m down to it wireless costumers, maybe every1 should. Then they would not have to pay to run wires everywhere, they could just put up a tower where ever the main internet "hubs" are. Easier to maintain from a certain point of view, you do not have to look for a break in the miles of wiring just on the tower, or in the stuff going to said tower.
I think that is what will end up happening. The main reason this country is less 'wired' than some European locales is the sheer size of the place. There are some (many) areas of this country that are so remote that bears outnumber people 10 to 1. Places like that will never be wired, nor should they. Even in semi rural areas, it doesnt necessarily make sense to spend millions of dollars to provide access. With new wireless technologies slowly becoming viable (LTE, Wimax, etc.) I suspect that within the next 20 years we will see a shift from wired connections (cable, DSL, fiber) to wireless in all but the urban centers and surrounding areas.
--
When you can't make them see the light, make them feel the heat.
-Ronald Reagan-

me1212

join:2008-11-20
Pleasant Hill, MO
·VOIPo

Re: Maybe america should stop tryiing to be the most wired.

you too are both correct, IMHO. We need more wireless for 2 reasons. 1: easier to deploy just put up a tower and not run miles of lines, but still get service to people maybe 12mi away if you do it right. 2: less outages due to broken lines, some1 digin a hole for road work ect. will not be able to cut the lines and take out service for a lot of people.
RadioDoc
58ef2c0
Premium,ExMod 2000-03
join:2000-05-11

Re: Maybe america should stop tryiing to be the most wired.

Please try to "just put a tower" in the middle of any inhabited area these days and report back on how easy it was. Hint: NIMBYs have taken over.
iansltx

join:2007-02-19
Golden, CO
·Comcast
·Qwest.net
·magicjack.com
·BeeCreek Communica..
·Sprint Mobile Broa..

Re: Maybe america should stop tryiing to be the most wired.

Additionally, WiMAX on 10 MHz, under good conditions, has less bandwidth availabl ethan a DOCSIS 1.1 node, as far as I've seen.

Trust me, the only way that wireless is better than wired where you can get wired is if wired screws things up; there's only so much spectrum available and at some point you just can't cram any more bits into a Hertz.

bender
Bite my shiny metal ass
Premium
join:2005-03-19
Evanston, IL
clubs:
what about high latency? is there a form of wireless tech that has a low latency like any wired method (fiber, cable, twisted pair)?? last i knew even 3g had over 150ms latency

wifi4milez
Big Russ, 1918 to 2008. Rest in Peace

join:2004-08-07
New York, NY
·Verizon FIOS
·Sprint Mobile Broa..
·RoadRunner Cable
·BroadVoice

Re: Maybe america should stop tryiing to be the most wired.

said by bender See Profile :

what about high latency? is there a form of wireless tech that has a low latency like any wired method (fiber, cable, twisted pair)?? last i knew even 3g had over 150ms latency
Yes. Both new wireless formats (LTE and Wimax) have latency that is fairly similar to wired connections.
--
When you can't make them see the light, make them feel the heat.
-Ronald Reagan-


bender
Bite my shiny metal ass
Premium
join:2005-03-19
Evanston, IL
clubs:

Re: Maybe america should stop tryiing to be the most wired.

in that case, bring it on!
hottboiinnc
ME

join:2003-10-15
Cleveland, OH
·Time Warner Cable
·buckeye cable

latency can be very low if even today's wireless technologies are used and the network is built right. I'm sure some of the WISPs on this board doesnt have 200+ms in their latency to start off with.

Anyone want to comment on their network's latency if you own a WISP. SuperDog?

wifi4milez
Big Russ, 1918 to 2008. Rest in Peace

join:2004-08-07
New York, NY
·Verizon FIOS
·Sprint Mobile Broa..
·RoadRunner Cable
·BroadVoice

Re: Maybe america should stop tryiing to be the most wired.

said by hottboiinnc See Profile :

latency can be very low if even today's wireless technologies are used and the network is built right. I'm sure some of the WISPs on this board doesnt have 200+ms in their latency to start off with.

Be careful now, you are confusing WISP offerings with (wireless) carrier 3G offerings. WISP's can build low latency into their networks, however 3G is inherently laggy as a technology. The new 4G networks were specifically designed to support low latency applications such as VoIP.
--
When you can't make them see the light, make them feel the heat.
-Ronald Reagan-

iansltx

join:2007-02-19
Golden, CO
·Comcast
·Qwest.net
·magicjack.com
·BeeCreek Communica..
·Sprint Mobile Broa..

Re: Maybe america should stop tryiing to be the most wired.

EvDO can do probably 70 ms on the last mile. Not great but not bad either. It's just funky routing that adds a good bit t that. I've seen speed tests with 80ms to a given site, Google if I remember correctly. Again, this was on EvDO Rev. A.

s for WiSPs, many of them use 802.11-based systems. These systems tend not to do so well under heavy load (case in point: my WiSP...as it turns out 60+ customers on one radio = EPIC FAIL) however when not loaded you can get better latency than nterleaved dSL and maybe even cable in some cases.
hottboiinnc
ME

join:2003-10-15
Cleveland, OH
·Time Warner Cable
·buckeye cable

Re: Maybe america should stop tryiing to be the most wired.

sounds like you don't have a very well built network from your WISP.

And WiFi i wasn't confusing anyone. People should learn to use Cellular Networks when they say that or VZ/ATT/TM/Sprint. and Wireless for Wireless Networks- WISP.

There are also many WISPs that can support VoIP on their network as they deploy QOS and have built a network from the ground up and actually upgrade when needed.
whozzit

join:2003-03-26
Westwood, CA
·DigitalPath

My ISP has been wireless since it's inception in around 2000. Prior to that the phone company offered DSL and, via that offering, kept other DSL providers out of the area. Wireless isn't governed by the same rules (no cable) so I signed up for Digitalpath before it was available, as did most other DSL subscibers in the surrounding three counties. We all enjoy wireless, faster-than-DSL service. I don't know what the telco is doing with their DSL these days.

Jafo232
You Can't Spell Democrat Without Rat.
Premium
join:2002-10-17
Boonville, NY

Re: Maybe america should stop tryiing to be the most wired.

Bring on the blimps.

DaveNJ
No Fear

join:1999-09-01
New Jersey
Is all of Russia wired ? Wireless is the way to go in Rural areas. LTE is going to really bring the internet to everyone.
Nuts

join:2006-04-27
Forest, OH
Yes, and at a minimum of $60 a month capped at 5gb, it's even more profitable.
me1212

join:2008-11-20
Pleasant Hill, MO

Re: Maybe america should stop tryiing to be the most wired.

Not ALL wireless ISP have a cap my fixed WISP has not cap and I now there are some mobile that have no cap. You just have to look for them, I can post a link to 1 mobile ISP with no cap if u want.
Nuts

join:2006-04-27
Forest, OH

Re: Maybe america should stop tryiing to be the most wired.

I'm still with Alltel for the moment, and they have no cap. If you have a different one, I'd be interested to know who.

Thanks
me1212

join:2008-11-20
Pleasant Hill, MO

Re: Maybe america should stop tryiing to be the most wired.

acun.com AKA »millenicom.com/. they resell verizon same service same price(I'm told ) but no cap, same as verizon with no cap.
hottboiinnc
ME

join:2003-10-15
Cleveland, OH
you don't have a cap now. Is forest one of the areas being of Alltel being off loaded or did VZW keep them?
Nuts

join:2006-04-27
Forest, OH

Re: Maybe america should stop tryiing to be the most wired.

Your correct, I don't have cap now, and no, hancock and hardin counties are staying Alltel and not moving to Verizon at this time. However, the remainder will be sold off soon, and as almost all the other carriers have caps, it will only be a matter of time.
hottboiinnc
ME

join:2003-10-15
Cleveland, OH
·Time Warner Cable
·buckeye cable

Re: Maybe america should stop tryiing to be the most wired.

I know Hancock is staying didnt know about Hardin. But they can't stay Alltel. Alltel can not stay its own business and the networks must be sold off. VZW doesnt have a cap if you use a reseller. Also my dad has Sprint in Findlay and he uses his card and hits 5+gigs per month and has never had any issues. He uses it for remote desktop, windows updates and fixing his clients computers if they need a driver or something from the internet and can't get on.

I know most if not all of NorthWest and North Central Ohio is being sold off. Maybe Revol will pick them up for ya. But be prepared to pay $5 to use your phone outside of the service area.

BF69

join:2004-07-28
Camden, TN

said by me1212 See Profile :

And be the least wired. AKA all wireless, I recall seeing that verizon was working on getting 60m down to it wireless costumers, maybe every1 should. Then they would not have to pay to run wires everywhere, they could just put up a tower where ever the main internet "hubs" are. Easier to maintain from a certain point of view, you do not have to look for a break in the miles of wiring just on the tower, or in the stuff going to said tower.
As long as Verizon insists on capping usage at 5 GB a month and then charging $256 per GB then 60 Mbps down is useless.
me1212

join:2008-11-20
Pleasant Hill, MO

Re: Maybe america should stop tryiing to be the most wired.

You do know you can get verizon with out a cap, right?

And after the 60m comes out the cap will most likely be uped. Maybe even done away with to gt costumer from other WISPs, like FiOS did with wired.

BF69

join:2004-07-28
Camden, TN


1 edit

Re: Maybe america should stop tryiing to be the most wired.

said by me1212 See Profile :

You do know you can get verizon with out a cap, right?

And after the 60m comes out the cap will most likely be uped. Maybe even done away with to gt costumer from other WISPs, like FiOS did with wired.
Um you were talking Verizon wireless. Not FiOS.
Verizon wirless data plans are caped at 5 GB a month.
me1212

join:2008-11-20
Pleasant Hill, MO

Re: Maybe america should stop tryiing to be the most wired.

I know how to get wireless(verizon) with no cap.

BF69

join:2004-07-28
Camden, TN

Re: Maybe america should stop tryiing to be the most wired.

said by me1212 See Profile :

I know how to get wireless(verizon) with no cap.
yeah how because you are full of it.

Eat Me

join:2002-09-25
Sussex, NJ

Re: Maybe america should stop tryiing to be the most wired.

He's not full of it. If you buy your service from a reseller who sells it under their brand name, there is no cap.

BF69

join:2004-07-28
Camden, TN

Re: Maybe america should stop tryiing to be the most wired.

said by Eat Me See Profile :

He's not full of it. If you buy your service from a reseller who sells it under their brand name, there is no cap.
he said Verizon not reseller. Not all places have resellers. In my area you have Verizon if you want EDVO no one else. See please entertian me and specificaly tell ME how I can get VERZION ( not a re-seller ) without a cap. Othwerwise STFU.
Estragon

join:2003-06-20
Greenville, NH
·Fairpoint Communic..
·MV Communications,..

The big problem with wireless is that the technologies currently in wide use require a line of sight between the user and the access point. If you have line of sight, it works great. And if there is no line of sight, it doesn't work at all.

Big problem #1 is trees. Lotsa trees. We need 1 mile links that work through a full mile of trees.

Big problem #2 is hills. And other terrain.

me1212

join:2008-11-20
Pleasant Hill, MO

Re: Except that wireless doesn't really work either

not all some can be, cell phones don't need a direct LoS(well mine doesn't anyway) they make antennas to increase the power of the signal, so some times you can still get it.
DarkLogix

join:2008-10-23
Baytown, TX

Never happen

Rural areas will never be fully wired (in my lifetime)

Comcast said (all of their customers not every one in the US)

See 26 replies to this post

jsz0

join:2008-01-23
Jewett City, CT
·Comcast

Eventually, yes

I can't see any significant price difference between deploying D3 to a rural area versus an urban area. While they will have to spend some money on deploying D3 there are a lot of benefits that would be worth the investment including lower cost per downstream and the ability to share more nodes on a single downstream group. Also the ability to repurpose & share a bank of EQAMS for multiple functions including VOD and SDV. So I think it will happen simply because it makes sense from the MSO perspective to do it.

In some rural areas this is going to mean moving to mostly or all digital. The FCC could accelerate this process by allowing smaller MSOs to be exempt from the separable security mandate to reduce the cost of deploying an all-digital device.

Of course areas not currently serviced by cable at all will continue to be out of luck. That's where federal spending could come into play since the return on investment is simply not good enough for an MSO to do it themselves.
westdc

join:2009-01-25
Amissville, VA

Re: Eventually, yes

I live 70 miles west of Washington DC. Comcast has been in my neighbor hood only for the past two years. 20 years ago another Cable company was here Adelphia and when they went under (Comcast bought up at a fire sale) came in (two years ago) and ran Fiber around our whole ruarl subdivision. We now have 16mps Blast in the woods where I live.

My point to this story is that comcast has invested in upgrading the PLANT to increase revenue - MORE SPEED = The more Revenue you can capture.

Verizon - has had a Hold on this part of the world I live in for 100 + years, They choose to do nothing (in this area) for all that time so they are committed to get REVENUE from Cities first rather than from the customers who only had because they were the only show in town.

Here most of us use VOIP dropping or POTS lines fast than Verizon can get new customers.
iansltx

join:2007-02-19
Golden, CO
»www.millenicom.com
void_of_Ligh

join:2005-12-27
Nacogdoches, TX

sat internet

Anyone that thinks sat internet is a valid replacement is uninformed. I have a friend that takes online classes using her wildblue internet. Several times a month she has to go somewhere else for her classes because its either not working or has gone over her limit. I finally got a wisp connection that works about 80% of the time. It is better than DU but just barely.(384/128) T-1 is not available. I as going to get one and resell to my neighbors. Anyone that says It's my fault for not checking on availability would be wrong. AT&T said DSL would be available in 6 months before I started building my house. It has now been almost 8 years and still no DSL.
sjs

join:2005-04-05
Bayside, NY

Re: sat internet

terrestrial satellite
Lazlow

join:2006-08-07
Saint Louis, MO

How far?

Physically how far can cable run (at full speed) from its fiber source? If it is less than 5(?) miles, then in many areas cable is just not going to work.

Whoever gets the government money they should be prevented from having a cap.

See 12 replies to this post

GlenQuagmire
Giggidy Giggidy Giggidy Goo
Premium
join:2004-02-16
Grand Rapids, MI

Anything is better that 28.8k

When I visit my my family in the small Missouri town of Wardell population 250 all I can get is 28.8k dialup of 60k of CDMA 1x speeds with my phone. Last year I was their and I need to pay my bills it took my 2 hours to pay 5 bills. ISDN speeds would be a welcome change. It seems to me it might be easier to use the cell phone networks to proved broadband in these areas.
--
Yes, its stuck in a windows this time.
Mr Matt

join:2008-01-29
Eustis, FL
·Comcast
·Embarq

Don't hold your breath.

As I said in a prior post there are more holes in broadband deployment in this area (Rural Central Florida) than a round of imported Swiss Cheese. Don't expect to get DOCSIS 3.0 without first having access to cable. While I was looking for property in the area, I found one development where the Cable Company did not install a node even though the fiber run passed the development and coaxial cable was already in the ground. It was claimed that the developer had not paid the necessary fees to the cable company for completion of the installation. That left homeowners on their own. Unfortunately for residents in the development, Embarq had not installed a Digital Subscriber Line Access Module at the Subscriber Line Carrier System to allow homeowners to subscribe to DSL service. What is really bizarre is that there is an area North East of my location that does not even have cellular phone coverage. Need I say more.

dvd536
as Mr. Pink as they come
Premium
join:2001-04-27
Phoenix, AZ

The real question is:

Will DOCSIS 3.0 Really Reach non FIOS areas?¿?
Unfortunately for those in areas that DON'T HAVE TO COMPETE, D1.0/1.1 is plenty[Cablevision was doing 10000/1000 on 1.0 CMTS's and modems]
--
When I gez aju zavateh na nalechoo more new yonooz tonigh molinigh - Ken Lee
daveberstein

join:2002-07-15
New York, NY

Sensible Concern For The Unserved

Karl

As you note, it is almost certain that DOCSIS 3.0 will not be available to millions and possibly tens of millions of Americans, and that's something that should be taken care of. My own estimate is that 10-25% of American homes are unlikely to receive DOCSIS 3.0 by 2012-2013, although the companies are refusing to provide their own projections. At least 5M homes will not be served without active government intervention (perhaps through the stimulus) because cable doesn't reach them and they are not in the plans of the companies.

What is to be done? I would suggest

1) Use the stimulus money to reach as many of the currently unserved as practical. Unless senior D.C. people are lying (something I'm investigating), that's 4-7% of homes. I don't believe it's worth spending $10's of thousand for a single home, but more modest sums are the best single use of the stimulus. One USF project came in at $91,000/home. But the prohibitively expensive to reach homes are little more than 1% of the country. I'd use upgraded satellite for that last 1-2%; other people may believe that the government should subsidize them.

2) Find a way to make sure that the next 5-20% of the homes actually are upgraded. I'm guessing that the biggest obstacle will be companies financial issues - Charter and Time Warner to begin. My solution would be to offer them secured loans with stimulus money; ohers may have better ideas.

3) Don't ignore the other problems: high price, lousy service, and an attempt to prevent people from watching enough video over the net that they will drop cable.

------

As Saul Hansell in the Times wrote this morning in an update to the story you quoted "Finding a way to bring broadband to remote and rural locations where it is simply uneconomic for commercial companies to string wires is one clear option" for the stimulus. 10's of millions unserved should be unacceptable.

I'm partly responsible for some people's confusion on this. I believe I was the first to provide specifics on the deployment (55-60% 2010-2011, 70-85% likely 2012-2013, according the the companies talking to wall street.) I therefore made the point to the stimulus team major public money shouldn't be provided to telcos for 10 and 25 megabit upgrades in the same areas. I suggested the cable upgrades where they aren't scheduled might be cheaper than the telco alternatives, hence something worth incenting. I also pointed to ways to help the last few percent, as I did above.

Which, like this article, seems sensible to me.
Lazlow

join:2006-08-07
Saint Louis, MO

Re: Sensible Concern For The Unserved

While I am not sure that D3 is the answer, I think we have to look at this as electric and phone were looked at when they first came it. Putting in phone and electric was very expensive for their times too, but it had to be done. The internet is just as important today as electric and phone were in their day.

So far fiber is the only long term solution that I have seen to the problem. Yes, the initial outlay is horrific, but long term is there anything that can compete? Most cable systems I have seen need virtually constant maintenance and they still have signal issues(maintenance cost eat you alive). Satellite systems (not the current Hughes mess) are expensive and I have not heard much about the new Japanese system since it's initial announcement(did it work?). Dsl variants cannot handle the distances required for most rural areas. Wireless has a problem with trees and terrain in general (many of the areas we are talking about do not have cell service either).

Point #3 should also be stressed and should have minimal government expense to do so.
wth
Premium
join:2002-02-20
Iowa City, IA

Mediacom is Testing DOCSIS 3.0 In Des Moines IA

"Mediacom is currently testing DOCSIS 3.0 in Des Moines, which is providing about 105 megabytes."

»30 HD channels will be ADDED by Years End-Iowa City
Forums » Will DOCSIS 3.0 Really Reach Rural America?


Sunday, 08-Nov 16:51:11 Terms of Use | Privacy Policy | Hosting by www.nac.net - DSL,Hosting & Co-lo | feedback | contact
over 10 years online! © 1999-2009 dslreports.com.republican-creole