 barn25
join:2005-11-17 Springfield, IL | America will never be fully wired Hmm from my experience in the matter having both lived in cities and country towns id say about 30 to 40 percent dont have broadband. When it comes to a country as a whole | |
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 |  jester121
join:2003-08-09 Lake Zurich, IL | Re: America will never be fully wired Do you work for the FCC? That sounds like one of their metrics.  | |
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 me1212
join:2008-11-20 Pleasant Hill, MO
·VOIPo
| Maybe america should stop tryiing to be the most wired. And be the least wired. AKA all wireless, I recall seeing that verizon was working on getting 60m down to it wireless costumers, maybe every1 should. Then they would not have to pay to run wires everywhere, they could just put up a tower where ever the main internet "hubs" are. Easier to maintain from a certain point of view, you do not have to look for a break in the miles of wiring just on the tower, or in the stuff going to said tower. | |
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 |   wifi4milez Big Russ, 1918 to 2008. Rest in Peace
join:2004-08-07 New York, NY
·Verizon FIOS
·Sprint Mobile Broa..
·RoadRunner Cable
·BroadVoice
| Re: Maybe america should stop tryiing to be the most wired. said by me1212 :And be the least wired. AKA all wireless, I recall seeing that verizon was working on getting 60m down to it wireless costumers, maybe every1 should. Then they would not have to pay to run wires everywhere, they could just put up a tower where ever the main internet "hubs" are. Easier to maintain from a certain point of view, you do not have to look for a break in the miles of wiring just on the tower, or in the stuff going to said tower. I think that is what will end up happening. The main reason this country is less 'wired' than some European locales is the sheer size of the place. There are some (many) areas of this country that are so remote that bears outnumber people 10 to 1. Places like that will never be wired, nor should they. Even in semi rural areas, it doesnt necessarily make sense to spend millions of dollars to provide access. With new wireless technologies slowly becoming viable (LTE, Wimax, etc.) I suspect that within the next 20 years we will see a shift from wired connections (cable, DSL, fiber) to wireless in all but the urban centers and surrounding areas. -- When you can't make them see the light, make them feel the heat. -Ronald Reagan-
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 |  |  me1212
join:2008-11-20 Pleasant Hill, MO
·VOIPo
| Re: Maybe america should stop tryiing to be the most wired. you too are both correct, IMHO. We need more wireless for 2 reasons. 1: easier to deploy just put up a tower and not run miles of lines, but still get service to people maybe 12mi away if you do it right. 2: less outages due to broken lines, some1 digin a hole for road work ect. will not be able to cut the lines and take out service for a lot of people. | |
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 |  |  |  RadioDoc 58ef2c0 Premium,ExMod 2000-03 join:2000-05-11 | Re: Maybe america should stop tryiing to be the most wired. Please try to "just put a tower" in the middle of any inhabited area these days and report back on how easy it was. Hint: NIMBYs have taken over. | |
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 |  |   bender Bite my shiny metal ass Premium join:2005-03-19 Evanston, IL clubs: | what about high latency? is there a form of wireless tech that has a low latency like any wired method (fiber, cable, twisted pair)?? last i knew even 3g had over 150ms latency | |
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 |  |  |  |   bender Bite my shiny metal ass Premium join:2005-03-19 Evanston, IL clubs: | Re: Maybe america should stop tryiing to be the most wired. in that case, bring it on! | |
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 |  |  |  |  hottboiinnc ME
join:2003-10-15 Cleveland, OH
·Time Warner Cable
·buckeye cable
| latency can be very low if even today's wireless technologies are used and the network is built right. I'm sure some of the WISPs on this board doesnt have 200+ms in their latency to start off with.
Anyone want to comment on their network's latency if you own a WISP. SuperDog? | |
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 |  |  |  |  |  |  |  hottboiinnc ME
join:2003-10-15 Cleveland, OH
·Time Warner Cable
·buckeye cable
| Re: Maybe america should stop tryiing to be the most wired. sounds like you don't have a very well built network from your WISP.
And WiFi i wasn't confusing anyone. People should learn to use Cellular Networks when they say that or VZ/ATT/TM/Sprint. and Wireless for Wireless Networks- WISP.
There are also many WISPs that can support VoIP on their network as they deploy QOS and have built a network from the ground up and actually upgrade when needed. | |
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 |  |  whozzit
join:2003-03-26 Westwood, CA
·DigitalPath
| My ISP has been wireless since it's inception in around 2000. Prior to that the phone company offered DSL and, via that offering, kept other DSL providers out of the area. Wireless isn't governed by the same rules (no cable) so I signed up for Digitalpath before it was available, as did most other DSL subscibers in the surrounding three counties. We all enjoy wireless, faster-than-DSL service. I don't know what the telco is doing with their DSL these days. | |
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 |  |  |   Jafo232 You Can't Spell Democrat Without Rat. Premium join:2002-10-17 Boonville, NY | Re: Maybe america should stop tryiing to be the most wired. Bring on the blimps.  | |
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 |   DaveNJ No Fear
join:1999-09-01 New Jersey | Is all of Russia wired ? Wireless is the way to go in Rural areas. LTE is going to really bring the internet to everyone. | |
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 |  Nuts
join:2006-04-27 Forest, OH | Yes, and at a minimum of $60 a month capped at 5gb, it's even more profitable. | |
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 |  |  me1212
join:2008-11-20 Pleasant Hill, MO | Re: Maybe america should stop tryiing to be the most wired. Not ALL wireless ISP have a cap my fixed WISP has not cap and I now there are some mobile that have no cap. You just have to look for them, I can post a link to 1 mobile ISP with no cap if u want. | |
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join:2006-04-27 Forest, OH | Re: Maybe america should stop tryiing to be the most wired. I'm still with Alltel for the moment, and they have no cap. If you have a different one, I'd be interested to know who.
Thanks | |
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 |  |  |  |  me1212
join:2008-11-20 Pleasant Hill, MO | Re: Maybe america should stop tryiing to be the most wired. acun.com AKA »millenicom.com/. they resell verizon same service same price(I'm told ) but no cap, same as verizon with no cap. | |
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 |  |  |  |  hottboiinnc ME
join:2003-10-15 Cleveland, OH | you don't have a cap now. Is forest one of the areas being of Alltel being off loaded or did VZW keep them? | |
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 |  |  |  |  |  Nuts
join:2006-04-27 Forest, OH
| Re: Maybe america should stop tryiing to be the most wired. Your correct, I don't have cap now, and no, hancock and hardin counties are staying Alltel and not moving to Verizon at this time. However, the remainder will be sold off soon, and as almost all the other carriers have caps, it will only be a matter of time. | |
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 |  |  |  |  |  |  hottboiinnc ME
join:2003-10-15 Cleveland, OH
·Time Warner Cable
·buckeye cable
| Re: Maybe america should stop tryiing to be the most wired. I know Hancock is staying didnt know about Hardin. But they can't stay Alltel. Alltel can not stay its own business and the networks must be sold off. VZW doesnt have a cap if you use a reseller. Also my dad has Sprint in Findlay and he uses his card and hits 5+gigs per month and has never had any issues. He uses it for remote desktop, windows updates and fixing his clients computers if they need a driver or something from the internet and can't get on.
I know most if not all of NorthWest and North Central Ohio is being sold off. Maybe Revol will pick them up for ya. But be prepared to pay $5 to use your phone outside of the service area. | |
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 |   BF69
join:2004-07-28 Camden, TN
| said by me1212 :And be the least wired. AKA all wireless, I recall seeing that verizon was working on getting 60m down to it wireless costumers, maybe every1 should. Then they would not have to pay to run wires everywhere, they could just put up a tower where ever the main internet "hubs" are. Easier to maintain from a certain point of view, you do not have to look for a break in the miles of wiring just on the tower, or in the stuff going to said tower. As long as Verizon insists on capping usage at 5 GB a month and then charging $256 per GB then 60 Mbps down is useless. | |
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 |  |  me1212
join:2008-11-20 Pleasant Hill, MO | Re: Maybe america should stop tryiing to be the most wired. You do know you can get verizon with out a cap, right?
And after the 60m comes out the cap will most likely be uped. Maybe even done away with to gt costumer from other WISPs, like FiOS did with wired. | |
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 |  |  |   BF69
join:2004-07-28 Camden, TN
1 edit | Re: Maybe america should stop tryiing to be the most wired. said by me1212 :You do know you can get verizon with out a cap, right? And after the 60m comes out the cap will most likely be uped. Maybe even done away with to gt costumer from other WISPs, like FiOS did with wired. Um you were talking Verizon wireless. Not FiOS. Verizon wirless data plans are caped at 5 GB a month. | |
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 |  |  |  |  me1212
join:2008-11-20 Pleasant Hill, MO | Re: Maybe america should stop tryiing to be the most wired. I know how to get wireless(verizon) with no cap. | |
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 |  |  |  |  |   BF69
join:2004-07-28 Camden, TN
| Re: Maybe america should stop tryiing to be the most wired. said by me1212 :I know how to get wireless(verizon) with no cap. yeah how because you are full of it. | |
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 |  |  |  |  |  |   Eat Me
join:2002-09-25 Sussex, NJ | Re: Maybe america should stop tryiing to be the most wired. He's not full of it. If you buy your service from a reseller who sells it under their brand name, there is no cap. | |
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 |  |  |  |  |  |  |   BF69
join:2004-07-28 Camden, TN
| Re: Maybe america should stop tryiing to be the most wired. said by Eat Me :He's not full of it. If you buy your service from a reseller who sells it under their brand name, there is no cap. he said Verizon not reseller. Not all places have resellers. In my area you have Verizon if you want EDVO no one else. See please entertian me and specificaly tell ME how I can get VERZION ( not a re-seller ) without a cap. Othwerwise STFU. | |
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 |  |  me1212
join:2008-11-20 Pleasant Hill, MO | Re: Except that wireless doesn't really work either not all some can be, cell phones don't need a direct LoS(well mine doesn't anyway) they make antennas to increase the power of the signal, so some times you can still get it. | |
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 DarkLogix
join:2008-10-23 Baytown, TX | Never happen Rural areas will never be fully wired (in my lifetime)
Comcast said (all of their customers not every one in the US) | |
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 |  See 26 replies to this post |
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  jsz0
join:2008-01-23 Jewett City, CT
·Comcast
| Eventually, yes I can't see any significant price difference between deploying D3 to a rural area versus an urban area. While they will have to spend some money on deploying D3 there are a lot of benefits that would be worth the investment including lower cost per downstream and the ability to share more nodes on a single downstream group. Also the ability to repurpose & share a bank of EQAMS for multiple functions including VOD and SDV. So I think it will happen simply because it makes sense from the MSO perspective to do it.
In some rural areas this is going to mean moving to mostly or all digital. The FCC could accelerate this process by allowing smaller MSOs to be exempt from the separable security mandate to reduce the cost of deploying an all-digital device.
Of course areas not currently serviced by cable at all will continue to be out of luck. That's where federal spending could come into play since the return on investment is simply not good enough for an MSO to do it themselves. | |
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 |  westdc
join:2009-01-25 Amissville, VA
| Re: Eventually, yes I live 70 miles west of Washington DC. Comcast has been in my neighbor hood only for the past two years. 20 years ago another Cable company was here Adelphia and when they went under (Comcast bought up at a fire sale) came in (two years ago) and ran Fiber around our whole ruarl subdivision. We now have 16mps Blast in the woods where I live.
My point to this story is that comcast has invested in upgrading the PLANT to increase revenue - MORE SPEED = The more Revenue you can capture.
Verizon - has had a Hold on this part of the world I live in for 100 + years, They choose to do nothing (in this area) for all that time so they are committed to get REVENUE from Cities first rather than from the customers who only had because they were the only show in town.
Here most of us use VOIP dropping or POTS lines fast than Verizon can get new customers.  | |
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 void_of_Ligh
join:2005-12-27 Nacogdoches, TX
| sat internet Anyone that thinks sat internet is a valid replacement is uninformed. I have a friend that takes online classes using her wildblue internet. Several times a month she has to go somewhere else for her classes because its either not working or has gone over her limit. I finally got a wisp connection that works about 80% of the time. It is better than DU but just barely.(384/128) T-1 is not available. I as going to get one and resell to my neighbors. Anyone that says It's my fault for not checking on availability would be wrong. AT&T said DSL would be available in 6 months before I started building my house. It has now been almost 8 years and still no DSL. | |
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 |  sjs
join:2005-04-05 Bayside, NY | Re: sat internet terrestrial satellite  | |
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 Lazlow
join:2006-08-07 Saint Louis, MO | How far? Physically how far can cable run (at full speed) from its fiber source? If it is less than 5(?) miles, then in many areas cable is just not going to work.
Whoever gets the government money they should be prevented from having a cap. | |
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  GlenQuagmire Giggidy Giggidy Giggidy Goo Premium join:2004-02-16 Grand Rapids, MI
| Anything is better that 28.8k
When I visit my my family in the small Missouri town of Wardell population 250 all I can get is 28.8k dialup of 60k of CDMA 1x speeds with my phone. Last year I was their and I need to pay my bills it took my 2 hours to pay 5 bills. ISDN speeds would be a welcome change. It seems to me it might be easier to use the cell phone networks to proved broadband in these areas. -- Yes, its stuck in a windows this time. | |
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  dvd536 as Mr. Pink as they come Premium join:2001-04-27 Phoenix, AZ
| The real question is: Will DOCSIS 3.0 Really Reach non FIOS areas?¿? Unfortunately for those in areas that DON'T HAVE TO COMPETE, D1.0/1.1 is plenty[Cablevision was doing 10000/1000 on 1.0 CMTS's and modems] -- When I gez aju zavateh na nalechoo more new yonooz tonigh molinigh - Ken Lee | |
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 daveberstein
join:2002-07-15 New York, NY
| Sensible Concern For The Unserved Karl
As you note, it is almost certain that DOCSIS 3.0 will not be available to millions and possibly tens of millions of Americans, and that's something that should be taken care of. My own estimate is that 10-25% of American homes are unlikely to receive DOCSIS 3.0 by 2012-2013, although the companies are refusing to provide their own projections. At least 5M homes will not be served without active government intervention (perhaps through the stimulus) because cable doesn't reach them and they are not in the plans of the companies.
What is to be done? I would suggest
1) Use the stimulus money to reach as many of the currently unserved as practical. Unless senior D.C. people are lying (something I'm investigating), that's 4-7% of homes. I don't believe it's worth spending $10's of thousand for a single home, but more modest sums are the best single use of the stimulus. One USF project came in at $91,000/home. But the prohibitively expensive to reach homes are little more than 1% of the country. I'd use upgraded satellite for that last 1-2%; other people may believe that the government should subsidize them.
2) Find a way to make sure that the next 5-20% of the homes actually are upgraded. I'm guessing that the biggest obstacle will be companies financial issues - Charter and Time Warner to begin. My solution would be to offer them secured loans with stimulus money; ohers may have better ideas.
3) Don't ignore the other problems: high price, lousy service, and an attempt to prevent people from watching enough video over the net that they will drop cable.
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As Saul Hansell in the Times wrote this morning in an update to the story you quoted "Finding a way to bring broadband to remote and rural locations where it is simply uneconomic for commercial companies to string wires is one clear option" for the stimulus. 10's of millions unserved should be unacceptable.
I'm partly responsible for some people's confusion on this. I believe I was the first to provide specifics on the deployment (55-60% 2010-2011, 70-85% likely 2012-2013, according the the companies talking to wall street.) I therefore made the point to the stimulus team major public money shouldn't be provided to telcos for 10 and 25 megabit upgrades in the same areas. I suggested the cable upgrades where they aren't scheduled might be cheaper than the telco alternatives, hence something worth incenting. I also pointed to ways to help the last few percent, as I did above.
Which, like this article, seems sensible to me. | |
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 |  Lazlow
join:2006-08-07 Saint Louis, MO
| Re: Sensible Concern For The Unserved While I am not sure that D3 is the answer, I think we have to look at this as electric and phone were looked at when they first came it. Putting in phone and electric was very expensive for their times too, but it had to be done. The internet is just as important today as electric and phone were in their day.
So far fiber is the only long term solution that I have seen to the problem. Yes, the initial outlay is horrific, but long term is there anything that can compete? Most cable systems I have seen need virtually constant maintenance and they still have signal issues(maintenance cost eat you alive). Satellite systems (not the current Hughes mess) are expensive and I have not heard much about the new Japanese system since it's initial announcement(did it work?). Dsl variants cannot handle the distances required for most rural areas. Wireless has a problem with trees and terrain in general (many of the areas we are talking about do not have cell service either).
Point #3 should also be stressed and should have minimal government expense to do so. | |
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