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story category Will Polluting BitTorrent Networks Stop Piracy?
Not so much. Though don't think 'private' groups are a refuge...
(old news - 09:58AM Friday Apr 13 2007)
tags: legal · Fileswapping · software · networking
The UK's Guardian has this report on the methods being used to make illegal trading of pirated BitTorrent files more annoying. As we've discussed, copyright holders employ the services of companies whose only job is to disrupt trading of certain content. That's done by distributing fake files, generating bogus search request results and even sucking up the bandwidth of file providers to slow distribution. Another tactic is "stuck Torrents":
"Another counter-piracy technique is when only 97% of a large file is uploaded. The remaining file parts are never released, meaning that people spend hours downloading most of the file, only to have it pause, endlessly and infuriatingly, just before the end. (These are sometimes called "stuck torrents".) However, the technique's effectiveness is limited, according to torrent tracking and indexing sites. "If people upload something like that, the community will find out and comment on it. It's just a stupid obstacle," says Peter.
The article also explores how such companies had their investigators join many now private trading groups before the doors were closed to new membership. "Many groups didn’t start off as private. They became private because they felt threatened, so we were able to get in when they were open," says an investigator for Covington and Burling in the piece.

That said, all of the effort doesn't seem to be harming illegal BitTorrent trading one bit. The groups claim that stopping piracy isn't their goal -- they simply want to hinder distribution just enough to "make sharing difficult for a month or two in order to give the legitimate product more traction," according to Media Defender. Take a look at the recent film release list of any of the major trackers and judge the job they're doing for yourself.

Related:
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  2. CIPPIC Opens Investigation Into Rogers, Bell Canada
  3. Monday Morning Links
  4. New ISP Snooping Tech Doesn't Work With BitTorrent
  5. VPN4Life is a Scam
  6. Debate Springs Up Over CNN P2P Use
  7. Tuesday Evening Links
  8. Wednesday Evening Links
Forums » Will Polluting BitTorrent Networks Stop Piracy?
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Matt
Gone playing Dragon Age Origins
Premium
join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC
·North State Commun..

Private Groups Pointless

Private groups/torrent sites are pretty pointless. Look, if you can get in, don't you think the investigators can? Even if it includes uploading a certain amount of illegal material. I imagine that's partly why this work is contracted out.

Reminds me of the days of private BBS's. They were just as pointless back then too.
--
Use the OS tool for the job.

dvd536
as Mr. Pink as they come
Premium
join:2001-04-27
Phoenix, AZ

Re: Private Groups Pointless

Private Groups Pointless because all it takes is one to infiltrate to bring it all down.
--
You can never be too rich, too thin or have too much Bandwidth
BosstonesOwn

join:2002-12-15
Everett, MA
clubs:

Re: Private Groups Pointless

Or are yall just jealous your not part of these "private groups" ?
deepblackmag

join:2004-12-27
00000

Re: Private Groups Pointless

They dont know what private means.

If you think those require-signup-to-download trackers are private think again.

You should be talking about the truly private communities with requirements of >10mbps upload and a good community reputation as an uploader to get in. Those sites are hot (there are only 2 i know of) and have releases seconds after scene pres.
BosstonesOwn

join:2002-12-15
Everett, MA
clubs:

Re: Private Groups Pointless

No idea man. I was only messing with them.
Asmodeus

join:2004-05-26
Spring Valley, CA

said by Matt See Profile :

Private groups/torrent sites are pretty pointless. Look, if you can get in, don't you think the investigators can? Even if it includes uploading a certain amount of illegal material. I imagine that's partly why this work is contracted out.

Reminds me of the days of private BBS's. They were just as pointless back then too.
The more exclusive groups only allow scene uploaders who have already been vetted to upload to the private tracker.

CrazyFingers

join:2003-10-01
Columbia, MO

This is of course the best solution.

Obviously, it would be an utter waste of time to re-focus all the energy and money on finding a solution or a product delivery mechanism that would convince the majority of people to pay for their content.
I mean, "changing your business model to address the desires of your customers"?
That's just nuts.

No no, creating an entire secondary industry devoted to playing intertube 007 is obviously the best course of action.
--
Burrow owl...burrow owl...

inteller
Sociopaths always win.

join:2003-12-08
Tulsa, OK

only grab torrents from reputable releasers

as long as you stick to the tried and true release groups, you are ok. Polluters wont work because they get found out to quickly.

insomx
Premium
join:2003-01-26
Canada

NO

Simple answer - NO
russotto

join:2000-10-05
Collegeville, PA

Uhh, 97%?

97% of a movie is quite likely watchable, unless they've been careful selecting the parts to remove. And since these disruption companies are authorized to distribute the content, they've just released 97% of it to the world at large absolutely legally...

cypherstream
Looking forward to the future of things.
Premium,MVM
join:2004-12-02
Reading, PA
clubs:

Re: Uhh, 97%?

Exactly, they are just as liable as people being sued by the RIAA or MPAA for using Bit Torrent. When you use bit torrent you are only sharing certain parts. Unless you keep seeding for over a month, it's highly doubtful that you supplied the ENTIRE file to an individual.

You can't fight fire with fire.

Iridium
Premium
join:2003-04-02
Los Angeles, CA
·DSL EXTREME


1 edit

Re: Uhh, 97%?

said by cypherstream See Profile :

Exactly, they are just as liable as people being sued by the RIAA or MPAA for using Bit Torrent. When you use bit torrent you are only sharing certain parts. Unless you keep seeding for over a month, it's highly doubtful that you supplied the ENTIRE file to an individual.

You can't fight fire with fire.
That's pretty inaccurate. I have seeded 100% copies of a movie several times over. On uTorrent, your ratio is the number of complete copies you have seeded.
--
My next laptop will be an Apple, I am fed up with PC's and Windows.
phuntism

join:2003-08-01
Manhattan Beach, CA

Re: Uhh, 97%?

said by Iridium See Profile :

On uTorrent, your ratio is the number of complete copies you have seeded.
Logical argument follows:

Either you're wrong, or you're talking about something else. Basing a BitTorrent "share ratio" on complete copies uploaded doesn't make any sense.

A counter-example to your claim:
You can download .20 of a file, and have a share ratio of 1.50 . Then if you stop uploading, but continue downloading until .40, you will have a share ratio of .75 .

If you decide to disagree for some crazy reason, please bring some kind of supporting evidence.

But I'm not surprised to hear this, I expect this sort of non-sense logic from someone intending to switch to MacOS. (haha, just kidding, had to say it, don't beat me up!)

Iridium
Premium
join:2003-04-02
Los Angeles, CA
·DSL EXTREME


1 edit

Re: Uhh, 97%?

said by phuntism See Profile :

said by Iridium See Profile :

On uTorrent, your ratio is the number of complete copies you have seeded.
Logical argument follows:

Either you're wrong, or you're talking about something else. Basing a BitTorrent "share ratio" on complete copies uploaded doesn't make any sense.

A counter-example to your claim:
You can download .20 of a file, and have a share ratio of 1.50 . Then if you stop uploading, but continue downloading until .40, you will have a share ratio of .75 .

If you decide to disagree for some crazy reason, please bring some kind of supporting evidence.

But I'm not surprised to hear this, I expect this sort of non-sense logic from someone intending to switch to MacOS. (haha, just kidding, had to say it, don't beat me up!)

OK based on how I seed, since every time I have been on a file, I never have seeded a 1:1 ratio with a partial file. I suppose it happens, but never to me. I always upload and download complete copies.
--
My next laptop will be an Apple, I am fed up with PC's and Windows.

cypherstream
Looking forward to the future of things.
Premium,MVM
join:2004-12-02
Reading, PA
clubs:

Yeah but usually at least the few time's I've used bit torrent, when you download something, theres MANY people your uploading and downloading parts to. Lets say your in a swarm with 50 people.

What is the likely hood that Person number 4 downloads his ENTIRE movie from my seed? He's not! He's going to download a tiny bit from me, and a bit from the other 48 people in the swarm.

Ok lets say theres a rare torrent with only 3 people in the swarm. So say user 1 sends me 1/4 of the file, user 2 sends me 1/2 of the file (since he's a little faster), and I get the rest from user 3. Still I haven't obtained the entire file from one user. How would anyone be held liable for copyright infringement when they don't ever upload the whole file? Without the whole file the movie or music or whatever it is, would be unrecognizable.

The only time I've seen where someone could be legally liable for copyright infringement is if its SO RARE that there is only 1 seeder, its a small file, and I am the only person joining the swarm. In that case say I download the entire file from the seeder, since there are no other participating users. This is a RARE case in movies and music.

sivran
Long Live The Suite
Premium
join:2003-09-15
Arlington, TX
clubs:

Re: Uhh, 97%?

And if you think it matters whether or not you upload the entire thing to any particular peer, I've got a bridge to sell you.
--
Think outside the fox...Seamonkey
jimbo2150

join:2004-05-10
Youngstown, OH

I would have to agree, 97% of pretty much anything but a compressed file is pretty much readable. In terms of a movie that would be what? Everything but the credits?

Nice going. You're trying to hinder downloading but uploading everything but the credits to the people who made the film in the first place.
jimbo2150

join:2004-05-10
Youngstown, OH

In other words...

You are saying that, had you had legal competition, you would (most likely illegally) be drowning out the competition just to try to make your sad product look better? What a lame excuse.

slowdownmaybe

@verizon.net

stop it, NOPE

think about it.. if someone is determined to get the content, the best anti-p2p measures can do is SLOW IT DOWN.. not stop the intent to distribute and or receive the content.

Plain and simple.
Copyright holders have a vested interest in slowing down alleged illegal distribution of NEW content because it ERODES the market value of said works.. ie the HIGH RELEASE price of a new piece of copyrighted material degrades in value (for the most part) until it is either reissued, gained cult status amongst viewers, or discarded for the walmart discount cd/dvd bin ($1-5 rack)
Now if people pay $15-300 a month for internet, they want ALL YOU CAN EAT for free, regardle$$ of individual value.. so, either accommodate this market or get run over by so-called pirate p2p networks!
P2P file traders aren't the napster kiddies of the past, these are internet savvy people and will stop at NOTHING to get the tasty "0"'s and "1"'s floating out there...

E-Nuff said!

Jameson
10-8
Premium
join:2004-05-28
Fallbrook, CA
clubs:

Stopping bittorrent

Stopping BitTorrent is such a lost cause. It's to hard to track because of the mass amounts of people doing it..

supergirl

join:2007-03-20
Pensacola, FL
·Cox VOIP
·Skype
·Cox HSI
·AT&T Southeast
·magicjack.com

Re: Stopping bittorrent

Honestly, I could care less. I don't use it. I'm also sick of hearing about it.

"People are putting fake files on Bittorent. Oh, the tragedy. I spent 4 hours downloading Debby does Dallas 18 and I MISSED THE ENDING!!! ARGGGGHHHHHH!!!!!"

Maybe Bittorent should be a daily "news" item. I'm sure the news writers can work on that during their Bittorent downloading waits.

Now, I do rip a DVD I buy for my Creative Zen. If they want to sue me over that, I believe since I'm only using it for personal uses that is called fair use.
Ahrenl

join:2004-10-26
North Andover, MA

Re: Stopping bittorrent

No one gets to the end of Debie does Dallas 18. It's actually just blank tape after the first 15 mins.
Beylan

join:2001-09-15
Mount Airy, MD
Actually ripping your own DVD's for your own personal use hasn't been legal since the DMCA went into effect. Bypassing a copy control mechanism (CSS)is just as illegal as uploading it to the net.

Chiyo
Save Me Konata-Chan
Premium
join:2003-02-20
Minneapolis, MN
clubs:
·Comcast

waste of time

All this is a waste of time if it's on the internet in some form people will find it that goes for more then just bittorrent that also goes for newsgroups, FXP dump sites and private FTPs. If you know who to talk to or where to look you'll find what you are looking for.
--
"Sure there have been injuries and deaths in boxing - but none of them serious."- Alan Minter, Boxer"I get to go to lots of overseas places, like Canada."- Britney Spears, Pop Singer

maartena
Stacked.
Premium
join:2002-05-10
Orange, CA
·RoadRunner Cable

Re: waste of time

said by Chiyo See Profile :

All this is a waste of time if it's on the internet in some form people will find it that goes for more then just bittorrent that also goes for newsgroups, FXP dump sites and private FTPs. If you know who to talk to or where to look you'll find what you are looking for.
Back in the day.... BEFORE napster or p2p ever came around.... Everyone I knew in the neighbourhood (we had cable internet in 1996) had their own FTP sites using an early version of Serv-U or even Linux, and you would just browse through each individual site to see if there was anything there you liked.... I had 15, maybe 20 sites to choose from on a daily basis, all running on cable modems in the neighbourhood.

Another big thing that happened in 1997 through just about 2000 or so was CD trading. In 1997 the CD burner had finally became affordable, and people were starting to trade games, software, music cd's etc between school friends and collegues. I just started working in the IT industry back then, and since CD's were still about $3 a pop back then we would trade stuff.... you give me this, I give you that. It wasn't until about 2000 that P2P got so mainstream there really was no point in trading CD's anymore.

When I was a teenager in the 80ties, I had a commodore 64. We would organize "copy days" where about 5 or 6 of us would come together in someone's house and connect C-64's to all TV's - including the portables we brought along - and then spend all day copying games that others had and you didn't.

People can ALWAYS go back to that circuit of building their own FTP sites between a circle of friends, or by trading CD's with each other.

Piracy has been around since monks have been copying books in the middle ages. You really think all those 8-track tapes our boys in Vietnam listened to were all originals? Hell, there was a business of getting EMPTY 8-track tapes to vietnam because they were dubbing them in every army camp across the jungle. Haven't we all dubbed tapes, copied music cd's from friends, or VCR tapes for that matter?

Those who think that "piracy will end" have absolutely no clue. If the Internet were to be abolished tomorrow, people will have started trading CD's again at school and the workplace by next week.
--
"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both" -
Benjamin Franklin, Founding Father.

MadMANN
Premium
join:2005-08-19

Will Polluting BitTorrent Networks Stop Piracy?

Did AIDS stop people from having sex?

Subaru
1-3-2-4
Premium
join:2001-05-31
Greenwich, CT
clubs:

Re: Will Polluting BitTorrent Networks Stop Piracy?

said by MadMANN See Profile :

Did AIDS stop people from having sex?
lol

james

join:2001-02-26
antarctica
Only the ones who died from it.
kaila

join:2000-10-11
Lincolnshire, IL
clubs:

I think if they really wanted to give legitimate products...

"more traction", they shouldn't be hostile to technology and be a little more like EMI. High quality, no DRM and reasonable pricing will ensure more money for everyone.

This is what happens when you ignore market demands, and playing these silly torrent pollution games won't make it go away. Although I'm sure it has made Media Defender quite a bit of money!
BosstonesOwn

join:2002-12-15
Everett, MA
clubs:
·Comcast
·Comcast Formerly ..

Legal Issue ? What about SET now ?

With this "break through" in technology that we can assemble parts from files that may not even be part of the original file , how can they come after you legally for this ? And even if they don't seed the other 3% It can be assembled from other sources !

I can see it now
Kid : "I wasn't part of the uploading [Insert crappy new movie/cd/dvd name here] , I was uploading a torrent of [Insert linux distro name here] "

XXAA Goon : " Yeah right , we got you dead to rights "

Kid : " Dude look on my hard drive "

XXAA Goon 2 : " Oh the kid was telling the truth. "

XXAA Goon : " You think we should stop [Insert XXAA Goon 3's name here] from raping his mother and his father , maybe even pay for the door we kicked in ? "

XXAA Goon : " Nahh he downloaded a ring tone on his phone as a midi they deserve it for being a bad parents "

XXAA Goon : " Come on [Insert XXAA Goon 4 name here] stop kicking his dog , the kids clean "
--
"It's always funny until someone gets hurt......and then it's absolutely friggin' hysterical!"

BuyAclue

@comcast.net

thumbs down from:
mrchris See Profile

Might not stop Piracy...

...but it sure pisses off the Pirates.

Doctor Four
My other vehicle is a TARDIS
Premium
join:2000-09-05
Dallas, TX

Re: Might not stop Piracy...

Not really - only the n00bs would fall for such obvious
fakes.

Dream on, Taylor troll.

iEvolution

join:2006-06-24
Ogden, UT

It doesn't work..

The fake ones lose seeds FAST and most likely there are comments saying its fake..therefore the life of the fake torrent files are little to none.

Its MUCH easier to find a fake on bit torrent sites than it is to find fakes on say limewire.
ossito16

join:2004-07-31
Whiting, IN
·RCN CABLE

time to fight back

Just like we are doing here, most torrent sites have a comment section for the torrent being downloaded. It doesnt take long for someone to say whether the files are good or bad. I believe it is fair if a particular torrent site gathers support and mounts an offensive/defensive action against these polluters. I say attack there networks (as well as record/movie company networks) the same as they are attacking as well.
8744675

join:2000-10-10
Decatur, GA

Prosecute them!

Uploading a polluted bit torrent file is no different than uploading a virus. They're both done with malicious intent. Those who do it should be caught and prosecuted just like someone who releases a virus.
juiced666

join:2007-03-03
Milton, ON

Re: Prosecute them!

You are kidding right? I mean do you have a clue as to how incorrect that anaology is?

pog
Premium
join:2004-06-03
Kihei, HI

97%?

If a copyright holder hires a company to upload 97%, I would argue this 97% has now become legitimately traded.
--
My Site

JammerMan79
Premium,VIP
join:2004-05-13
Prince George, BC

Re: 97%?

agreed... I'm really interested on how does this affect the legality of the file
Forums » Will Polluting BitTorrent Networks Stop Piracy?


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