 
DotMac
Shill H8r
Premium
join:2007-10-26
Huntington Beach, CA
2 edits | Throw out some fliers I think it will be the elderly who are the most befuddled by the DTV switch.
AARP could be a big help with education. Also throw in fliers in Medicare/caid mailers. A year of that and the word will be out. Plus as the deadline approaches we'll certainly see more mainstream press about it.
And yeah, the providers have already taken care of the transition by offering horribly over-compressed crap channels full of motion artifacts starting at only $50/mo plus junk fees for 1 TV. | |
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 | john262
join:2003-09-26
Elko, NV | Re: Throw out some fliers To say that the elderly will be "the most befuddled by the DTV switch" is ageism at it's worst. The elderly are just as intelligent as anyone else. | |
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DotMac
Shill H8r
Premium
join:2007-10-26
Huntington Beach, CA
1 edit | Re: Throw out some fliers Calling the obvious ageism is naivete' at it's worse.
And no, when it comes to ATSC, they aren't just as intelligent as anyone else. | |
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| | | jmallory
join:2005-11-02
Clawson, MI
| Re: Throw out some fliers said by DotMac  :Calling the obvious ageism is naivete' at it's worse. And no, when it comes to ATSC, they aren't just as intelligent as anyone else. Yes they are. I have ran into some younger people who are just as clueless. | |
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| | jjeffeory
join:2002-12-04
USA | They're not always the most connect to currently technology either. That's not their thing. It's okay, I don't think it is ageism. | |
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Corehhi
join:2002-01-28
Bluffton, SC
| Re: Throw out some fliers My parents had a 30 year old yellow phone that they had been renting up to two years ago. They simply didn't know you could buy your own. They also still have rotary service because they won't pay to upgrade to touch tone. I think the phone company just switched them any ways and didn't charge a monthly fee. LOL. | |
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Qumahlin
Never Enough Time
Premium,MVM
join:2001-10-05
united state
| said by john262 :To say that the elderly will be "the most befuddled by the DTV switch" is ageism at it's worst. The elderly are just as intelligent as anyone else. No, the elderly can be just as intelligent as everyone else, but when you add in the various ailments, memory problems, behavioral patters (as most people get older they become set in their ways), it's not ageism to state they are the ones most likely to be confused and surprised by this upcoming change.
Most elderly people I know have not yet upgraded, or felt the need to upgrade to digital cable. I promise you if I ask them right now what they plan to do when the DTV deadline comes around they would simply stare at me like I was speaking an alien language.
Do I know some tech saavy elderly people? Yes, hell my 79 year old grandfather replaced his processor, heatsink, and ram without any help from me a month or so ago; however that is simply not the norm.
To call this ageism would be like calling me a sexist if I said men typically make more then women.
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Forum Posts:7500 | |
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| | dtpetty
Premium
join:2005-04-04
San Diego, CA
 ·DSL EXTREME
| said by john262 :To say that the elderly will be "the most befuddled by the DTV switch" is ageism at it's worst. The elderly are just as intelligent as anyone else. We are not talking intelligence here, It is about awareness. My dad will be 90 this year, and is perfectly coherent and very intelligent. But, I will guarantee if I asked him he would not remember the transition date, or what exactly it means for him. I think outreach to seniors will be very helpful. | |
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justbits
More fiber than ATT can handle
Premium
join:2003-01-08
Chicago, IL | Transition messes I'm just hoping that the digital TV transition will be less messy than eventual transition to IPv6 when IPv4 addresses run out.  | |
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Qumahlin
Never Enough Time
Premium,MVM
join:2001-10-05
united state
| said by justbits :I'm just hoping that the digital TV transition will be less messy than eventual transition to IPv6 when IPv4 addresses run out. Actually that might not be such a mess. Before I left my previous employer (a cable MSO) there was a good amount of headway into planning for IPv6 transitions and its gotten much easier thanks to the transition technologies finally being put into place. In case you aren't aware RFC1752 actually contains some transition specific criteria to help providers during the "mixed network" phase of the transition
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Forum Posts:7500 | |
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MooJohn
join:2005-12-18
Milledgeville, GA
·Windstream
| What's the crisis? 99% of the television watching country won't see any difference whatsoever. The same cable and/or dish will bring in the same signal it always has, connected to the same aux input it's always been.
Only those watching over the air television will have to change. While that may be a larger number in urban areas, those of us located where we might get 1 channel OTA really don't care about the change.
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John M - Cranky network guy | |
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morbo
Complete Your Transaction
join:2002-01-22
00000
clubs: | Re: What's the crisis? that's still millions of households. | |
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| | b10010011
Whats a Posting tag?
join:2004-09-07
Bellingham, WA
 ·Comcast Formerly ..
2 edits | Re: What's the crisis? said by morbo :that's still millions of households. My mother included. She called me a few months ago when the local TV station was announcing it's now simulcasting in digital. I tried to explain it to her, but I could tell she did not understand. I remember her saying "Your father bought this TV just before he passed away. They are not going to make me git rid of it are they?".
Worst part is some Best Buy shark is going to rip her off because I can not travel half way across the country to buy it for her. | |
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| | | Ahrenl
join:2004-10-26
North Andover, MA | Re: What's the crisis? You could just have her get a converter box.. you know, with the coupons and what not. | |
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L337
Premium
join:2005-03-10
Chicago, IL | Re: What's the crisis? Yup you can get 2 free coupons that's worth $40.00 each free. | |
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| | | | | apollo80
join:2002-01-31
Richmond, VA
| Re: What's the crisis? said by L337 :Yup you can get 2 free coupons that's worth $40.00 each free. Nope, not free. That's coming out of your pocket and mine.
Do you pay taxes? Then you are paying for her new box, and everyone elses. | |
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| | | | | | rayeger
join:2003-07-05
Warren, OH | Re: What's the crisis? But isnt that money that goes to those coupons supposed to come from they money they get for selling the rights to those airwaves? | |
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| | | | | | | michigandave
join:2007-05-16
Fenton, MI | Re: What's the crisis? I believe it is $1 billion set aside for the converter box program. This is coming out of the 700 MHz auction money and not direct tax money. | |
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| | | | | | | | Ahrenl
join:2004-10-26
North Andover, MA | Re: What's the crisis? The tax money out of our pockets sounds better though. | |
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| afiggatt
join:2007-07-12
Sterling, VA
1 edit | said by MooJohn :99% of the television watching country won't see any difference whatsoever. The same cable and/or dish will bring in the same signal it always has, connected to the same aux input it's always been. Only those watching over the air television will have to change. While that may be a larger number in urban areas, those of us located where we might get 1 channel OTA really don't care about the change. The actual number is about 15% of all households are OTA only. My brother is one of them. Then you have to add the millions of TVs which are households with cable/sat, but are OTA only. The TV in the kitchen, bedroom, workshop, etc.
Are you sure you can get only 1 digital station OTA? A check of a zip code for Milledgeville, GA shows 5 digital broadcast towers within 42 miles. One may not be on the air yet however. A good rooftop antenna should get them if you are not down in a valley. No question that distant rural areas dependent on translators and low power stations have been left out of the digital transition. That will change in 2009, when many low power stations do a digital flash conversion and the translator start switching as well. I'm better off with 2 cities in reach; I get 18 digital stations OTA (all 7 HD broadcast nets) & should get 1 more soon when it goes full power.
This all said, yes, I expect the transition to be a mess. The mainstream media does a terrible job when it comes to the technical aspects of this such as understanding the difference between cable and OTA, digital vs analog. | |
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BF69
join:2004-07-28
Camden, TN
| Re: What's the crisis? said by afiggatt : The actual number is about 15% of all households are OTA only. That a real load of BS. Now I live in a rual area. You can draw a circle 50 miles radius around my town and the total popualtion within that circle is under 250,000. Now I can tell you here isn't anywhere near 15% getting TV through OTA. My town is 80 miles from Nashville and 120 miles from Memphis as the crow flies( not actual driving distance ) so if you're getting OTA you need a outdoor attena. I don't see 1 out of every 7 houses with an attena outside thier house. In fact those houses that are outside city limits and thus can't get cable I see the VAST majority with sateltite dishes on their houses.
I would say the % is probably less than 3% with a HUGE amount of those being from Alaska. | |
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| | | afiggatt
join:2007-07-12
Sterling, VA
| Re: What's the crisis? said by BF69 :said by afiggatt : The actual number is about 15% of all households are OTA only. That a real load of BS. Now I live in a rual area. You can draw a circle 50 miles radius around my town and the total popualtion within that circle is under 250,000. Now I can tell you here isn't anywhere near 15% getting TV through OTA. My town is 80 miles from Nashville and 120 miles from Memphis as the crow flies( not actual driving distance ) so if you're getting OTA you need a outdoor attena. I don't see 1 out of every 7 houses with an attena outside thier house. The ~15% OTA only number is based on series of extensive FCC funded surveys which turns out to be a very difficult number to nail down. I get TV stations out to 50 miles away with an antenna in my attic. It would do better on the roof, but it is not worth the trouble. With digital reception, it only has to be good enough. I know of 1 guy who gets the DC stations from 125 miles with an antenna in his attic, but he lives lives on a ridge which makes a big difference. You won't see the indoor and attic antennas. So you have studied each house carefully and counted the rooftop antennas in a systematic survey, huh?
Besides, not all OTA viewers are rural. There are many people who live in the cities and suburbs who simply do not subscribe to a cable or satellite service. I also have seen a number of posts on-line from people who once they saw OTA digital quality decided to drop their cable service. These won't be the sports fans or people who watch a lot of TV, but there are some out there. According to this website, the most recent survey found 14% of households were OTA only: »dtvfacts.com/latest/530/how-many···the-air/. I expect you can find the original docs on the FCC website with some digging. | |
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Camelot One
Premium,MVM
join:2001-11-21
Sarasota, FL
clubs:
 ·VoicePulse
| Yes, it's a mess My grandparents (both sides) have been convinced by what they have heard and read that they will need to replace their TV's, because they will stop getting "a signal" when the transition finaly takes place.
And even though I have explained over and over that the issue only effects over the air (they both have cable, with cable boxes) they still think this.
The FCC has done an absolutely crappy job of explaining what is going on, what people need to do, and who is effected. Anyone who understands the lingo they have been using doesn't need their info to begin with. They need to dumb it down for those who are still trying to figure out how to email.
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Intel Quad Core QX6700 @3500Mhz/Asus P5N32-E SLI/4x 1024Mb Corsair/Seagate 750.10/PNY 7800GTs SLI/Silverstone 850W/Custom water cooler | |
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gaforces
United We Stand, Divided We Fall
join:2002-04-07
Santa Cruz, CA
·Cruzio Internet
3 edits | Re: Yes, it's a mess As I get older, with dimishing eyesight and hearing, I appreciate the HDTV/5.1 sound more every day.
Even a 19 in LCD/HDTV tuner is better, for around the same price or cheaper than my old 32 in CRT color TV.
Pioneer reciever and 5.1 speaker set was around 200$.
I use OTA HDTV with a powered antenna, but if I wanted, I could use my old rabbit ears and they would work fine for hdtv. Just not having to see static/snow from the old analog broadcasts is worth switching. Signals are so much clearer now.
If those $40.00 coupons cover the cost of a converter/tuner for OTA, then no problem.
Some people might need help installing them though.
PS, I think your getting a hint from the grandparents on what they want for x-mas 
Id like one of >> »www.gateway.com/accessories/prod···p?seg=hm
--
‘Do ye, quieting in your bosoms your strong hearts,
Who of many good things have had your fill even to surfeit,
With what is moderate nourish your mighty desire; for neither will
We yield, nor shall you have all else as you wish.’
Solon | |
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JSRoman
Premium
join:2005-03-10
Callahan, FL
1 edit | Some will claim they had no clue. Get ready for news reports, the day after the transition of people who had no idea this was happening .
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»www.seabee.navy.mil | |
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| Samwoo
join:2002-02-15
Rancho Palos Verdes, CA | Re: Some will claim they had no clue. Hey. DSLR is the only place that I have ever heard even mention the Digital TV transition. But maybe its only because I watch cable TV and therefore they do not need to notify me about it. | |
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RARPSL
join:1999-12-08
Suffern, NY
| said by JSRoman :Get ready for news reports, the day after the transition of people who had no idea this was happening . Big Deal. Thus who view the reports will not care since by viewing the report they are automatically in the population who are not affected (since they can receive the digital signals or have cable/dish). | |
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Richard B
Fur It Up
join:2007-06-22
Portland, OR | Says it All We are from the Government and we are here to help. | |
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factchecker
@cox.net | Re: Says it All Right, because we know that the broadcast industry would handle the change over much better, right?
Oh wait, weren't they they one's that weren't too thrilled about the change over ? Hmmmm. | |
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topoopon
join:2001-11-20
Bensalem, PA
 ·Verizon FIOS
| said by Richard B :We are from the Government and we are here to help. We are from the Bush Administration, and we are here to do nothing but watch. | |
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CylonRed
Premium,MVM
join:2000-07-06
Bloom County
·Speakeasy
1 edit | I think most people are confused/clueless by what digital is Most think they will have to have HDTV's in order to get the digital signal and I would be willing to bet that about one third of HDTV sales are for this reason alone.
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Brian
Free health care is 100% a misnomer - it is not free and never will be free. | |
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| cghh
join:2001-01-15
Milpitas, CA
| Re: Y2K Part Deux? said by Old_Grouch :I get the sensation that 2008 will be like 1999. All sorts of ruckus from people who think the world will come to a halt as the clock rolls to the new (scary) date. People will watch with angst only to find out that it turns into a non-event with the only victims being the "sloppy few". I think one could argue that Y2K was a non-event because the parties that would be impacted were businesses who understood the significance of the issue and spent the $$$ to fix the problem before it hit. OTOH, with the DTV issue, the people most likely to be effected are non-technically-oriented consumers, of which there are many. | |
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en102
Canadian, eh?
join:2001-01-26
Valencia, CA
·RoadRunner Cable
·DSL EXTREME
| Those that are going to use these devices... Probably don't have Internet or Dish TV. Unless it comes in the junk mail pile, or in a newspaper, many will not know its coming.
quote:
The FCC has had an education campaign and website
Click for full size
in place for some time. In fact you might remember the campaign annoyed some groups who thought taxpayer funds should not be spent on "hawking digital TV sets". Uncle Sam will be giving each American family up to two coupons for $40 to help subsidize their purchase of two digital-to-analog converter boxes. Martin has also filmed a new pitch that's airing on Dish Network.
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Canada = Hollywood North | |
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BF69
join:2004-07-28
Camden, TN
| Re: Those that are going to use these devices... said by en102 :Probably don't have Internet or Dish TV. Unless it comes in the junk mail pile, or in a newspaper, many will not know its coming. I have already seen ads on network stations. Many times a day every day. If the average person sees it 2-3 times a day between now and Feb 2009 that's 1000 times. If you don't get it after 1000 times then maybe you're too stupid to own a TV. | |
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Jwobot
join:2002-08-14
Sterling Heights, MI |  Death to the idea
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| duckslayer
join:2004-04-09
Maumelle, AR | You don't bring a sat dish also. Sunday ticket at Deer camp is awesome. | |
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hurfy
Premium
join:2002-08-06
Spokane, WA
| HUH "Martin has also filmed a new pitch that's airing on Dish Network."
What exactly does that accomplish?!? Is that what they were talking about by hocking new TV's, perhaps?
I have seen someone talk about it in their ads i think, doubt the info was much good. I have to think the mainstream press will beat it to death next year tho.
The whole thing sucks for portable TV's. Can't quite see hooking up a converter and antenae (i assume the box needs one) to my mom's 4" B&W in the kitchen. | |
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MrMoody
Liberal Capitalist
join:2002-09-03
Smithfield, NC
·Skype
·magicjack.com
| Re: HUH said by hurfy :"Martin has also filmed a new pitch that's airing on Dish Network." What exactly does that accomplish?!? Is that what they were talking about by hocking new TV's, perhaps? No kidding; anyone who sees it on Dish Network is not affected. Duh!
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The public is a poor business manager. | |
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ke4pym
join:2004-07-24
Charlotte, NC
 ·Verizon BroadbandA..
·Packet8
·RoadRunner Cable
| ALL Analog TV will NOT disappear on 2/17/09 Keep in mind that only primary broadcasters (granted a majority of TV) will be the only ones turning off their analog transmitters on 2/17/09.
Translators and other secondary stations are not being held to this date and will continue to broadcast past this point. | |
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| apollo80
join:2002-01-31
Richmond, VA
| Re: ALL Analog TV will NOT disappear on 2/17/09 said by ke4pym :Keep in mind that only primary broadcasters (granted a majority of TV) will be the only ones turning off their analog transmitters on 2/17/09. Translators and other secondary stations are not being held to this date and will continue to broadcast past this point. But almost all will go ahead and make the digital move to keep up. | |
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dadkins
Can you do Blu?
Premium,MVM
join:2003-09-26
Hercules, CA
·Comcast
| Portable TV? Got Casio?
Soon to be a paperweight!
Got tuner card? If it isn't ATSC... you is SOL for OTA TV.
I just bought a USB ATSC tuner, Good To Go!
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Think outside the Fox... Opera | |
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Martins A Stooge
@rr.com
| Everybody knows: DIGITAL==CABLE It's not, of course, but it's exactly what the cable companies want you to believe, and exactly that notion that the FCC is pandering to. It's criminal.
The FCC has been handing big media conglomerates all the power and 'consolidation' they can, despite both public and congressional outcry.
Most local terrestrial broadcasters have been broadcasting additional digital signals for years, but the public's perception is you have to have cable to get those channels. The cable companies certainly benefit from this false notion.
In the UK, nearly every store has really cheap (under $50) 'Freeview' boxes, and their transition is years away in 2012 or so. Even grocery stores have the boxes. Yet, in the US with just over a year left, you can't buy a simple digital tuner that's not embedded in a TV or DVR. You would think at this stage of impending transition, there would be boxes galore available. Yet even if you *know* that you need one, they can't be found.
The only stand-alone tuner I've seen is made by Samsung and retails for close to $200. Yet for the past year, both Best Buy and Circuit City who (at least used to) carry them were constantly 'out of stock' and only rarely got one for actual sale. The Best Buy website says 'in store item only' yet the stores are told they can't get them! I even *paid* for one based on the fact the local store had a dummy display box on the shelf with a price. They ordered it, but after a couple of weeks of 'it wasn't on the truck' I went to corporate who told me not a single store in my state was authorized to sell them. Why? They had no answer. I had to get a refund.
It seems clear the FCC is colluding with big media to kill all local terrestrial broadcasting so they can play big money auction games with the spectrum. | |
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BF69
join:2004-07-28
Camden, TN
| Re: Everybody knows: DIGITAL==CABLE said by Martins A Stooge :
In the UK, nearly every store has really cheap (under $50) 'Freeview' boxes, and their transition is years away in 2012 or so. Even grocery stores have the boxes. Yet, in the US with just over a year left, you can't buy a simple digital tuner that's not embedded in a TV or DVR. You would think at this stage of impending transition, there would be boxes galore available.
If the coupons won't be available until next month WHY would you buy one now anyways? Especially since it won't be needed until Feb 2009?
Trust me wal-mart is NOT going to miss out on an opportunity to make boatload of money. I can guarantee you starting next month these converter boxes will be in every fricken wal-mart.
As far as your cheap $50 box, well let's see a $50 box here -$40 coupon =$10. Can't beat that. Even at $75 that's $35 which is still cheaper than the UK. | |
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amungus
Premium
join:2004-11-26
America
clubs:
| so sad It's just kind of sad that many sets, which will last for some time, won't be able to get any stations without these boxes. I can't see hooking up a small portable to one of these.
It's going to be a mess. People with random tv's for garages, camping, whatever, aren't going to go through the trouble of powering and connecting some extra unit unless they really know what they're doing. Even then, what a hassle.
My parents have no idea what any of it means. Granted, they have cable, but only analog. There are still tons of people with regular analog only cable, which I know, will still work, but the cable companies can't wait to reduce analog channels to such a small # as to be useless. A few public access channels, maybe a couple locals (though those'll all be digital anyway  ) and analog cable will largely disappear IMO. Not that I know the plans, that's just my guess... And that'll render a large # of sets useless. Have to get a freaking box for all those too, and if you have 2 or more sets with boxes, that's just a pain. Think about the cost too! They probably can't wait to juice people for more boxes... oh joy.
Besides, I loathe some of those older digital cable boxes. I wouldn't hook one up to a tube tv unless paid to do so.
Even the newer smaller ones pass along the faults inherent in digital video - artifacts, motion blur, COLOR SHIFT (what the fsck is that...), audio sync problems, horribly compressed audio/video. Too much re-encoding along the way to the final destination RUINS many a show... MPEG just gets ugly when people mess with re-encoding at so many points along the way - source: compressed, brodcast. re-broadcast by carrier (station, sat, cable), re-encoded to whatever they want. Re-encoded again from digital to analog at receiver - result? WORSE than a raw analog signal, even with a little fuzz or blur - at least the colors are usually right, the audio is synchronized, there is no "jitter" or motion blur, let alone pixellation...
Bigger problem is the cable card fiasco. Some get them to work, some don't.
Until they make tv's that are truly as "plug and play" as analog, it's going to suck big time. I want to be able to buy a reasonably priced screen, of decent size, that just plugs right in and works - period. That's the beauty of analog. It freaking works in an understandable manner, and I don't care about a little fuzz - it's actually remarkably clear for most channels.
Still can't get a comparable screen to a nice tube tv for anywhere near the price. Even if you could, are they truly "cable ready" as in what WILL be the new "cable ready" which will be digital? Didn't think so.
I don't blame the FCC as much as the manufacturers of tv's and the broadcasters themselves for being so lazy about letting people know what options they have.
Standards people. Standards. Make all this jumbled mess standardized as analog used to be and there wouldn't be such a fuss.
Viva analog. | |
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ATSC
@comcast.net
| Re: so sad Wow. Are you saying that there are no digital broadcast standards? My circa 1998 HD receiver still works as does my 2004 wide screen tube HD TV with either OTA local HD or satellite HD. While I'm no fan of compression artifacts I do recall a mess of imagery artifacts from analog NTSC TV as well. My ATSC HD signal looks MUCH better than NTSC analog. I guess you have never seen ghosting or static on analog TV. Don't make the mistake of comparing "Digital Cable" to HD video. | |
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| | | dentman42
join:2001-10-02
Columbus, OH
·AT&T Midwest
| Re: so sad said by amungus :pure analog still looks fantastic if done right. One word: MUSE
Better than any digital broadcast yet, but took more bandwidth.
Oh well, at least the HDTV encoders seem to be getting better.
I think they should require the analog signal to be broadcast for at least 10 years after the required the warning stickers on analog only equipment. A new 27" TV bought for last Christmas wasn't required to carry the warnings, yet in a little over a year, it becomes obsolete.
Wait until people start throwing away all their analog TVs... | |
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bennor
join:2006-07-22
New Haven, CT
| People confuse OTA with Cable TV The problem is that no one clarifies (including the intro text above) what is really being cut off February 17th 2009 date. Unless something changed and I missed the memo it's ONLY the analog OVER THE AIR signals that people receive with antenna's that are being terminated. People with cable TV service will still get analog signals until their cable provider transitions to all digital.
It confused me at first because those media outlets that have reported this cutoff date tend not to make the distinction between over the air and cable tv. I've had explain to family members that their expensive wide screen HDTV's are not obsolete after February 17th, 2009 because it's connected to a cable co's cable box. | |
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Lenagainster
join:2005-01-07
Silver Spring, MD | cellular companies made major changes It wasn't that long ago that AT&T, who became Cingular, who became AT&T, transitioned from TDMA to GSM. In retrospect, it wasn't that bad, was it? | |
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| amungus
Premium
join:2004-11-26
America
clubs:
| Re: cellular companies made major changes because they standardized handsets and it's a more controlled environment than just anyone with any set that can get any available signal
good point though. I think it worked out well because of ...PLANNING...  | |
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| Ulmo
join:2005-09-22
San Jose, CA | I think AT&T's wireless transitions were worse than the transition to ATSC-only will be. | |
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jtc331
join:2003-04-13
Huntingdon, PA
| Absolutely What the FCC won't tell you is that other things are affected. The uhf band (500-800 mhz) is also used for things like wireless microphones and monitors. While those operators can buy new equipment when the 700 band is sold, companies like Dell and Microsoft are lobbying to get the bands underneath 700 to be sold to. This would affect a wide range of people - everything from theater to live broadcast to referees at games, to mass events like the superbowl and political rallies to lecture classrooms to churches to business conference rooms use wireless mic technology that would be turned into paperweights by these frequencies being sold.
The FCC needs to take this into concern when they keep selling more spectrum. | |
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Lazlow
join:2006-08-07
Saint Louis, MO
| Digital Range? I recently made the switch to digital (OTA)(old TV died). The picture is great. There are a few stations that are about 20 miles(from tower) away that I do not get digital signal(anything within 15 miles is fine). I have a 60 inch antenna that pulled the analog signal in fine. I also remember when I used to live on the ranch that we pulled analog signals from a 100 plus miles(same sized antenna, same elevation). Are the digital signals just at a lower power until the analogs are gone? If so, will they be turned up when the analog is shut off? If not, why is the range so much shorter?
On the HD/SD issue: if the stations have to buy new digital equipment anyway, why would they invest in the lower quality stuff? I think that most will just skip SD and go straight to HD.
Somewhere in here there is a post that states that some stations will continue to broadcast analog after the end date. As the FCC is selling this bandwidth I do not think that this can be correct.
Lazlow | |
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| afiggatt
join:2007-07-12
Sterling, VA
| Re: Digital Range? said by Lazlow :I recently made the switch to digital (OTA)(old TV died). The picture is great. There are a few stations that are about 20 miles(from tower) away that I do not get digital signal(anything within 15 miles is fine). I have a 60 inch antenna that pulled the analog signal in fine. I also remember when I used to live on the ranch that we pulled analog signals from a 100 plus miles(same sized antenna, same elevation). Are the digital signals just at a lower power until the analogs are gone? If so, will they be turned up when the analog is shut off? If not, why is the range so much shorter? How good is your antenna for UHF reception? Most stations are currently broadcasting their digital signal on UHF because the VHF channels are full with analog signals. because of interference issues, few stations have opted for low VHF for the digital era, but 100s of stations will switch their digital channel from UHF to their current upper VHF 7 to 13 analog channel after the analog shutdown in February, 2009. If you need help with choosing the right antenna, start with antennaweb.org and for help, try the Reception Hardware forum at »www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/forumdis···php?f=25. Not all stations are at full power on their digital signal, about 80% of the full power stations now are, IIRC.
The cost of going HD is considerable and it is a complex transition for a local station. The # of stations broadcasting the local news in HD has continued to accelerate as we get closer to the analog shutdown. | |
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| | Lazlow
join:2006-08-07
Saint Louis, MO
2 edits | Re: Digital Range? afiggatt
The station in question is analog UHF(as are a number of others) so the antenna should not be the issue. Antennaweb is a great site and it is were I went when I was looking at anttennas. As it is a smaller station maybe they are just in the 20% not at full power? I will take a look at the avs link.
Thanks
Lazlow
Edit. According to tvfool the station is at 21 miles and is only putting out 101kw(vs 4600kw for analog), PBS is at 14 miles and is at 125kw(rest are at 1000kw). So I suspect they simply are not pumping out enough kw. | |
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| | | afiggatt
join:2007-07-12
Sterling, VA
| Re: Digital Range? said by Lazlow :Edit. According to tvfool the station is at 21 miles and is only putting out 101kw(vs 4600kw for analog), PBS is at 14 miles and is at 125kw(rest are at 1000kw). So I suspect they simply are not pumping out enough kw. You can not directly compare analog ERP to digital ERP (effective radiated power) numbers. The ERPs are calculated differently and the nominal equivalent for digital is 1/5 of analog. A ATSC UHF signal at 125 kW should easily be picked up at 14 miles if there are no terrain or obstruction issues. Same goes for 101 kW at 21 miles. I suspect you need a better antenna, need to re-aim & locate it, have old cables with cracks, or RG-59 co-axial which has higher loss per foot for high UHF channels than RG-6. the avsforum hardware reception site is useful, so is »www.hdtvprimer.com/ISSUES/erecti···nna.html for anyone needing help with OTA reception. | |
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| | | | Lazlow
join:2006-08-07
Saint Louis, MO
| Re: Digital Range? New rg6 cable.
PBS comes in with 100% signal strength (from tv indicator), perfect picture. That is why I think it is a problem with that station and not on my end. The analog signal from the same tower is perfect (no ghosts, no issues at all) so I think I am aimed at the right place. | |
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| TACSPEED
Premium
join:2001-04-14
Tacoma, WA
·Advanced Stream
| quote:
If not, why is the range so much shorter?
The higher the broadcast frequency the shorter the range.
quote:
If so, will they be turned up when the analog is shut off?
Some stations that are using the higher frequency UHF channels will move to the lower frequency VHF channels that the analog broadcasting vacated. So you may pick up some of your missing channels if they are currently broadcasting in the UHF range.
quote:
On the HD/SD issue: if the stations have to buy new digital equipment anyway, why would they invest in the lower quality stuff? I think that most will just skip SD and go straight to HD.
You can broadcast more channels in SD then in HD. So there is some economic incentive to broadcast at a lower resolution.
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Fiber Optics is the future of high-speed internet access. Stop by the BBR Fiber Optic Forum. | |
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RayW
Premium
join:2001-09-01
Layton, UT
clubs:
·XMission
| A lot of FUD* and information lack on this program And we see a lot of the FUD part here on DSLR.
It is possible that next year (2008) you will see more information on this and the ramifications thereof, but then I am an optimist.
What worries me is that they are giving out a limited number of coupons for the $40 off one A-D converter, yet there is no way they can tell if the people who NEED them are getting them and not the scalpers. How much you want to bet EBAY will have a ton of the converters on sale for a 10 dollar off price? January 2, 2008?
Sure, the coupons have serial numbers (or so was one plan), and an expiration date....three months from mailing, and I can see the price gouging going on while most of the coupons are valid, a big price drop for a while after that, then a serious price drop around March 2009 after most people have given up and gone one way or another.
* for those who do not know, an acronym for "Fear, uncertainty, and doubt", also used to imply misinformation and rumor.
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I am not lost, I find myself every time. | |
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BF69
join:2004-07-28
Camden, TN
| Re: A lot of FUD* and information lack on this program said by RayW :What worries me is that they are giving out a limited number of coupons for the $40 off one A-D converter, "Under the rules, all U.S. households will be able to apply for up to two $40 coupons to defray the cost of a basic digital-to-analog converter box during the program’s initial phase, in which up to 22.5 million coupons are expected to be available."
22.5 million is not what I could call "limited" | |
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| | RayW
Premium
join:2001-09-01
Layton, UT
clubs:
·XMission
| Re: A lot of FUD* and information lack on this program said by BF69 :said by RayW :What worries me is that they are giving out a limited number of coupons for the $40 off one A-D converter, "Under the rules, all U.S. households will be able to apply for up to two $40 coupons to defray the cost of a basic digital-to-analog converter box during the program’s initial phase, in which up to 22.5 million coupons are expected to be available." 22.5 million is not what I could call "limited" Yet one government site* I looked at said "first come, first serve" since there may not be enough to go around. Granted, I think in many areas the number of folks who do NOT have an antenna (like here) far outweigh those who do, but I have faith in human greed plus, as other postings on this subject have shown, the lack of knowledge on the behalf of cable only folks. And all that even though I ASSUME from the site referenced that the application form should be fairly clear on who needs the units.
* »www.ntia.doc.gov/ntiahome/frnoti···2006.htm
Recognizing that the additional funding, which cannot exceed $1,500,000,000, may still be insufficient to administer the program, NTIA proposes to fulfill valid coupon requests on a first-come, first-served basis until funds devoted to this program have been spent.
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I am not lost, I find myself every time. | |
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BF69
join:2004-07-28
Camden, TN
| Re: A lot of FUD* and information lack on this program said by RayW :said by BF69 :said by RayW :What worries me is that they are giving out a limited number of coupons for the $40 off one A-D converter, "Under the rules, all U.S. households will be able to apply for up to two $40 coupons to defray the cost of a basic digital-to-analog converter box during the program’s initial phase, in which up to 22.5 million coupons are expected to be available." 22.5 million is not what I could call "limited" Yet one government site* I looked at said "first come, first serve" since there may not be enough to go around. Granted, I think in many areas the number of folks who do NOT have an antenna (like here) far outweigh those who do, but I have faith in human greed plus, as other postings on this subject have shown, the lack of knowledge on the behalf of cable only folks. And all that even though I ASSUME from the site referenced that the application form should be fairly clear on who needs the units. * » www.ntia.doc.gov/ntiahome/frnoti···2006.htmRecognizing that the additional funding, which cannot exceed $1,500,000,000, may still be insufficient to administer the program, NTIA proposes to fulfill valid coupon requests on a first-come, first-served basis until funds devoted to this program have been spent.
What part of TWO per household don't you get? So that's at least 11.25 million househilds that willg et these things. I'm not getting them because I don't need them. MOST of America doesn't. 11.25 million is over 10% of the total amount of households. Many households that use OTA would naturally be geting new TV anyways by Feb 2009 even if this wasn't happening because peole eventually get new TVs. Those new TVs will have digital tuners so it's not an issue. Also if these people get new DVD recorders they will have digital tuners in them. | |
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| | | | RayW
Premium
join:2001-09-01
Layton, UT
clubs:
·XMission
| Re: A lot of FUD* and information lack on this program said by BF69 :What part of TWO per household don't you get? So that's at least 11.25 million househilds that willg et these things. I'm not getting them because I don't need them. MOST of America doesn't. 11.25 million is over 10% of the total amount of households. Many households that use OTA would naturally be geting new TV anyways by Feb 2009 even if this wasn't happening because peole eventually get new TVs. Those new TVs will have digital tuners so it's not an issue. Also if these people get new DVD recorders they will have digital tuners in them. Hey, I can not help it that you can not read. Take a closer look at my citation (see link in prior posting since the filter will not let me post it again for you) from the people supplying the coupons. *THEY* are the ones who were saying there may be a shortage. Besides, most of the folks I know who have OTA do not plan on getting a new TV because our 4-8 year old ones work fine and we have better uses for USD600 than a new TV. The few I know who are planning on getting a new TV are just waiting for the price to get better (I have not priced one lately, so I do not know what a new TV that is digital ready will cost).
Plus, I have faith in the greedy segment of our society to subvert the process and lock up a sizable portion of the coupons for ebay like activities as well the idiots and misinformed who do not need one but fill out the paperwork like they need two.
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I am not lost, I find myself every time. | |
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Will The Digital TV Transition Be a Mess?
