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Will Verizon's FiOS Deployment Freeze Ever Thaw?
Many Cities Still Waiting On Next FiOS Deployment Phase

Last year we discussed at length how with the exception of several major cities like New York, Washington DC and Philadephia, Verizon's FiOS expansion is essentially over for now. That left a significant number of markets suddenly wondering why they weren't good enough for consideration, including Boston, Alexandria, Virginia, Baltimore, Maryland and Wilmington, Delaware. A lot has been made (and in some cases made up) about how some municipalities make unreasonable demands on Verizon and thereby it's their fault they don't get next-generation broadband, but that's a two-way street, and Verizon uses FiOS deployment as leverage to stop cities from asking for even the smallest concessions.

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Keep in mind there is limited to no competition in many of these markets, and Verizon over the years has lobbied to pass more than a dozen state level bans that prevent cities from wiring themselves. Verizon knows if a city asks too much in Verizon's opinion (like say, Verizon actually paying property taxes like everybody else) Verizon can pull the plug knowing nobody else will deliver such speeds. That's a pretty potent negotiating position and, as the only major telco with the guts to re-invest this kind of money back into the network, it was earned.

In Wilmington they've yet to see FiOS in part because they wanted Verizon to offer service everywhere (something Verizon agreed to in NYC and DC), and to adhere to some basic consumer satisfaction standards. Verizon has rejected Wilmington's pleas over the last year, and negotiations really broke down when Wilmington raised concerns about cherry picking. Delaware Online quotes a Verizon executive who claimed several years ago that Verizon FiOS would arrive any day now:

quote:
Allan would not tip his hand about whether the company would agree to such a condition. But he expressed confidence that everything would work out. He noted that Dover, Newark and Middletown have timetables for how Verizon will provide service to all customers..."We plan on building out the city of Wilmington," Allan said. "Right now our engineers are looking at what is the most logical way to go about this. All I can say is: stay tuned. You may be surprised."
Nothing ever happened, which we suppose could be surprising. The company's FiOS pause was dictated by the top ROI locations in the first wave, but it was also paused in part due to other factors, including a sour economy, the hope that Verizon could get more USF subsidies (they are), and the fact their biggest FiOS fan and CEO Ivan Seidenberg is headed out the door this Spring. Verizon also wanted to pause to ramp up marketing and improve penetration in existing markets. The company is expanding into areas that they're obligated to under existing franchise agreements, but the company is telling residents of Diamond Bar, California that upgrades won't resume until late this year or even early next.

With the offload of 4.8 million residential lines to Frontier Communications last year, about 40-50% of Verizon's network currently remains un-upgraded. Verizon may continue to sell off rural networks they don't believe will deliver solid ROI, while other DSL markets appear to be getting ADSL2+ that tops out at 15 Mbps downstream. We likely won't see a new push anything like the first, though it remains likely that some of these cities overlooked in the first wave may finally see some movement late this year.

Update: The original version of this story briefly suggested the 2008 Delaware Online story linked above contained new information. That was quickly corrected, and for the record Verizon still hasn't wired Wilmington, Delaware with FiOS -- and apparently has no intention to anytime soon.
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HaloFans
join:2006-12-18

1 recommendation

HaloFans

Member

On contrary, 2012 says Diamond Bar, California (SoCal)

»diamondbar.patch.com/art ··· at-least

Plans made would be as early as the end of 2011.

Karl Bode
News Guy
join:2000-03-02

Karl Bode

News Guy

Re: On contrary, 2012 says Diamond Bar, California (SoCal)

If I recall they wanted to hit 40% take rate in many of these markets before moving on.

Onedollar
join:2001-08-27
Pomona, CA

Onedollar

Member

Re: On contrary, 2012 says Diamond Bar, California (SoCal)

Diamond bar is a fulfillment requirement negotiated with the city. More of these type of negotiations to come in order to thaw the freeze that has been imposed.

SeattleMatt
Streaming Tech Director
Premium Member
join:2001-12-28
Seattle, WA

SeattleMatt

Premium Member

Re: On contrary, 2012 says Diamond Bar, California (SoCal)

Woot woot! Wilmington, DE on the front page!

Luckily us folks just outside the Wilmo city limits have had FIOS for 5 years now...
hottboiinnc4
ME
join:2003-10-15
Cleveland, OH

hottboiinnc4 to Onedollar

Member

to Onedollar
and you do realize that 99% of all of those contracts with VZ on FiOS has a loophole for them to get out? If they don't have a certain up take on subs, VZ can pull out and no longer offer FiOS. And that is what they'll end up doing.
tmc8080
join:2004-04-24
Brooklyn, NY

1 recommendation

tmc8080 to Karl Bode

Member

to Karl Bode
said by Karl Bode:

If I recall they wanted to hit 40% take rate in many of these markets before moving on.

40% is a pipedream.. They slashed prices to get where they are now at 15%, only to raise them back up again! Verizon can't expect to win hearts and minds with higher prices.. it's just that simple. No matter if you have the better product, Verizon simply chooses to overshoot the market on cost. This is what Time Warner and Cablevision bank on. The triple play I have w/ 25 symmetric, digital voice phone, and extreme hd package for under $100/month bottom line price should be their standard deal. Now it's about $115 and that's overshooting the market. If you can't get people in NY to pay $115, it's doubtful you get anyone anywhere else to either.

Lots of companies expecting another season of oil company greed so, nobody's going to stick their neck out on investment. Perhaps we will get fed up and convert our economy to bioethanol & biodiesel once and for all. The costs @ $4 a gallon are about the same. The mid-west basicaly needs a green light and perhaps some upfront subsidies & tax incentives. At least the money stays in the USA.
hottboiinnc4
ME
join:2003-10-15
Cleveland, OH

hottboiinnc4

Member

Re: On contrary, 2012 says Diamond Bar, California (SoCal)

that is due to their contract loop holes of being able to pull the TV service if they don't have enough uptake. Which will happen in the end. Not many people are wanting to switch and its not a big thing to them to have FiOS-FTTH when their current services are working just fine. VZ fails to realize that people do NOT like change. The only way to get them to change is to educate them on why their product improves their lives. Which really; it doesn't. Just offers them the same product just over a different medium at a bigger price. Grated the speeds are faster; but that's not a reason to switch to someone who's happy with their 3meg DSL for $19.95.
Ulmo
join:2005-09-22
Aptos, CA

Ulmo

Member

Re: On contrary, 2012 says Diamond Bar, California (SoCal)

True, but the 3meggers will die out.

Eagles1221
join:2009-04-29
Vincentown, NJ

Eagles1221 to hottboiinnc4

Member

to hottboiinnc4
Where can you get 3 Mbit DSL for 19.95?
Ulmo
join:2005-09-22
Aptos, CA

Ulmo to tmc8080

Member

to tmc8080
small nit: biofuels tend to be energy inefficient. better to go with something more realistic like nuclear power. (to boot, nuclear power itself is proven.) But your general point that high gas prices are softening the interests of investment seem right.

Thespis
I'm not an actor, but I play one on TV.
Premium Member
join:2004-08-03
Keller, TX

Thespis to tmc8080

Premium Member

to tmc8080
said by tmc8080:

The costs @ $4 a gallon are about the same.

True, but the amount of biofuel needed to make up for the oil we use would drive the price of corn and other farm comodities through the roof. I'll take $4 gas and (somewhat) affordable food.

antdude
Matrix Ant
Premium Member
join:2001-03-25
US

antdude to HaloFans

Premium Member

to HaloFans
said by HaloFans:

»diamondbar.patch.com/art ··· at-least

Plans made would be as early as the end of 2011.

Grr. I live near there in 91745 and it exists, but not in my neighborhood.
PerfectCode
join:2009-06-12
Portland, OR

PerfectCode

Member

Whaaaa...

I desperately want Verizon FiOS service here.

Harddrive
Proud American and Infidel since 1968.
Premium Member
join:2000-09-20
Fort Worth, TX

1 recommendation

Harddrive

Premium Member

lol

typical of Verizon in a big city...
there's a parking ticket under the wiper blade. just another added cost that Verizon anticipates every year.

winsyrstrife
River City Bounce
Premium Member
join:2002-04-30
Brooklyn, NY

winsyrstrife

Premium Member

Re: lol

said by Harddrive:

typical of Verizon in a big city...
there's a parking ticket under the wiper blade. just another added cost that Verizon anticipates every year.

Filed under Verizon customer billing "incidents".

alchav
join:2002-05-17
Saint George, UT

1 recommendation

alchav

Member

Verizon FiOS FTTH......Only Game in Town!

Verizon never said it was going to Stop FiOS Deployment, only cut back. Like all Companies, they want to make money, and how do you do that? Go into areas that will return the most "Bang for the Buck." So they picked cities that wanted FiOS, and Verizon thought they could sell some of their FiOS Products. So if you don't have FiOS and want it and you are in a Verizon Area, make a little noise and Verizon might hear you.
biochemistry
Premium Member
join:2003-05-09
92361

biochemistry

Premium Member

FML

I live in an AT&T region (no hope for FTTH) and I can't even get their DSL or U-verse service. FML.
moonpuppy (banned)
join:2000-08-21
Glen Burnie, MD

1 recommendation

moonpuppy (banned)

Member

Stay out of Baltimore City

Or you will have lots of stolen equipment and even more unpaid bills. If you could limit deployment to certain areas then you would be o.k.

batterup
I Can Not Tell A Lie.
Premium Member
join:2003-02-06
Netcong, NJ

batterup

Premium Member

Sad so sad.

quote:
...but a walking shadow, a poor player that struts and frets his hour upon the stage and then is heard no more: it is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.
Just get out of the way and stop your crying.

FreedomBuild
Well done is better than well said
Premium Member
join:2004-10-08
Rockford, IL

FreedomBuild

Premium Member

C'mon Verizon

Been chomping at the bit and harassing them from time to time to deploy here in Rockford, IL. We need some true competition here to give Comcast a run for the easy money they've been sticking it to us
amungus
Premium Member
join:2004-11-26
America

amungus

Premium Member

I hope so

More FiOS the better! Wish it were in my area!

On a related note...
...I need to get in touch with somebody @ Verizon - we have a toll free # here that is apparently being used on some piece of promo material - I have seriously received direct calls (the toll free # routes to our I.T. group) from random people asking about FiOS... They are too common to be dialed wrongly.

banditws6
Shrinking Time and Distance
Premium Member
join:2001-08-18
Frisco, TX

banditws6

Premium Member

Finish Frisco please!

Hope this is true, I would love for Verizon to finish their rollout in Frisco, TX which was interrupted last year.
HJM13
join:2009-09-04
Charleston, WV

1 recommendation

HJM13

Member

Ooops. Better check the date of that WNJ story...

... and you'll find that it's nearly three years old.

Harry Mitchell from Verizon here. I'm not interested in rehashing the Wilmington, Del., franchise saga, but -- since you devoted substantial space to this really, really aged story -- suffice it to say that Verizon's franchise proposal for Wilmington in late 2008-early 2009 was a fair and reasonable one, with an aggressive commitment to make FiOS TV available to all city residents within five years; delivery and financial support of education and governmental channels; thorough and appropriate customer-service commitments and more.

Unfortunately, the parties couldn't agree on terms that would enable Verizon to compete effectively and serve customers in Wilmington -- something we're doing quite successfully in many, many other jurisdictions across the country.

We currently are focused on fulfilling our build commitments under the franchises we've obtained, and on increasing penetration in the areas where FiOS is available. And we're doing quite well, with 4.1 million FiOS Internet and 3.5 million FiOS TV subscribers at year-end 2010.
jtel
join:2005-06-28
Bristol, RI

jtel

Member

RI

I thought once they dumped most of the old GTE areas that they'd start right up again.

They left a lot of Rhode Island without FIOS.
biochemistry
Premium Member
join:2003-05-09
92361

biochemistry

Premium Member

2008

"Delaware Online quotes a Verizon executive who seems to claim that Verizon FiOS may be on the march again"

This is from 2008. We expect an apology for such shoddy reporting, DSLreports/Karl Bode.

Scree
In the pipe 5 by 5
join:2001-04-24
Mount Laurel, NJ

Scree

Member

hurry

Still waiting for the comcast dragon to be slain in my area so fios can finally arrive. lol

FIOS Stopped
@comcast.net

FIOS Stopped

Anon

Re: hurry

You are lucky in Mt Laurel, you have nothing to complain about. Around 5 years ago Comcast did a "node split" project in your town and put in miles of new fiber and cut the number of subscribers down on each node, drastically improving service and reliability. Mount Laurel is one of the cleanest and newest areas in the Comcast Garden State footprint.

batterup
I Can Not Tell A Lie.
Premium Member
join:2003-02-06
Netcong, NJ

batterup

Premium Member

FiOS not yet.

Verizon just upgraded DSL to 15 Meg; I don't see FiOS coming soon. There are way too many stumbling blocks being thrown under Verizon's feet.
jtel
join:2005-06-28
Bristol, RI

jtel

Member

Re: FiOS not yet.

They must be pretty close by with fiber in order to get dsl speeds that high though. 1/2 a mile maybe?

batterup
I Can Not Tell A Lie.
Premium Member
join:2003-02-06
Netcong, NJ

1 recommendation

batterup

Premium Member

Re: FiOS not yet.

said by jtel:

They must be pretty close by with fiber in order to get dsl speeds that high though. 1/2 a mile maybe?

Actually there must be only copper from the CO to the premise for ADSL2+. To get 15 Mbs I recall max 3,000 feet. Verizon sells 10 to 15 with 6,500 the max distance and one would get 10 Mbs at 6,500. Don't hold me to those distances they are what I recall.

They offer a 4 to 7.1 Mbs plan that goes farther but the thing is they did put money into DSL. That doesn't look like they plan to run FiOS in those areas any time soon.

DeathK
Premium Member
join:2002-06-16
Cincinnati, OH

DeathK

Premium Member

Re: FiOS not yet.

said by batterup:

Actually there must be only copper from the CO to the premise for ADSL2+.

You should be able to get it from a remote DSLAM fed by fiber from the CO.

batterup
I Can Not Tell A Lie.
Premium Member
join:2003-02-06
Netcong, NJ

batterup

Premium Member

Re: FiOS not yet.

said by DeathK:

said by batterup:

Actually there must be only copper from the CO to the premise for ADSL2+.

You should be able to get it from a remote DSLAM fed by fiber from the CO.

Point of order; 7.1/15 requires upgrading the CO equipment. Verizon, at this point in time, is not going to put the big bucks DSLAMs in remote terminals.

I'm happy to be able to get "up to" 10 T-1 down-load speed but if Verizon is spending money on DSL in my area I will be in a home before FiOS lit.

Four years ago they started to hang the fiber, and it hangs, and it hangs.


kingdome74
Let's Go Orange
Premium Member
join:2002-03-27
Syracuse, NY

kingdome74

Premium Member

Yay me!

In a couple of months we're moving to North Syracuse, NY (about 7 miles away) which has, at least from what I've seen, all of Verizon's FiOS services. If I could afford the 50/50 triple play I'd get it but instead I'm getting the 25/25 which is an excellent upgrade from the 15/1 I get from Time Warner for a lot better price. To be fair TW also offers 50/5 in this little town I live in but the price, again, is prohibitive.

MonkeyLick78
join:2002-01-27
Hixson, TN

MonkeyLick78

Member

Re: Yay me!

I believe it's 50/20 from Verizon.

kingdome74
Let's Go Orange
Premium Member
join:2002-03-27
Syracuse, NY

kingdome74

Premium Member

Re: Yay me!

said by MonkeyLick78:

I believe it's 50/20 from Verizon.

Yep, you're right. That would be a hack of a upstream though.

dbcn
@verizon.net

dbcn

Anon

Yes, that's the point

The article is from 2008 - good job. That's exactly the point: three years ago, they claimed that it was ramping up, but no significant expansion occurred.

It's really too bad - from everything I hear, it's a phenomenal service.
cobo6
join:2002-02-18
Willingboro, NJ

cobo6

Member

Fios is still being install in new towns/markets

Verizon is still installing Fios in new town/markets. I live in Willingboro, NJ (the suburbs) and i am seeing the verizon has been installing the Fios cable underground around our town. I notice the white and orange poles say warning fiber optic cable install underground. It looks like they are install the Fios at the edge of town and working their way inside. They began something earlier this year so i believe that we should be getting fios by the end of the year.

warning might be some grammar mistakes.

•••
tmc8080
join:2004-04-24
Brooklyn, NY

tmc8080

Member

solutions

the easiest solution for you to get FIOS is MOVE... you are not in a country that doesn't allow you to live where you want to live. the alternative?
build your own network.. good luck in at&t and comcast geographies. I doubt Verizon is trying to actively block new municipal deployment outside of FIOS geographies they're still in with the exception where there is a possibility of them getting federal/state funds to build a network in the immediate future-- at least as much as most cable companies since they don't have a wireless customer base to fall back on for profits.

you have to weigh the good with the bad... might want to trade the bad of Ohio and Wisconsin for the bad of New Jersey and Pennsylvania where there are limited FIOS deployments, but will likely have a higher cost of living. research the deployed fios network.. it's probably available in parts of about 12 states. There are municipal (FTTP) deployments in 8-12 others which are not Verizon.

Bill Neilson
Premium Member
join:2009-07-08
Alexandria, VA

Bill Neilson

Premium Member

Re: solutions

said by tmc8080:

the easiest solution for you to get FIOS is MOVE

And that is EXACTLY what I did. I could not get FiOS and I wanted it so I moved. That was 2 years ago.

With that said, why do people keep saying that as if it is easy and/or it is simple? Anyone know how expensive it was for me to move? I didn't even have a family at the time (do now) so I can't imagine that headache

Fact is, moving is NOT easy on any level. So this idea of "Stop complaining and move" argument is nonsense on many levels.

Again, I did it b/c I could. But many, many others can't because of either finances, family, etc....

DAOWAce
join:2006-10-25
Flanders, NJ

DAOWAce

Member

Pain.

I live on a dead end street loaded with Cablevision customers. Verizon wired down the main road here 3 years ago.

FiOS has been a 30 second walk away this entire time. They never came down our street.

To make matters worse, I've been having severe issues with my internet/phone service from Cablevision since December 2008 and have had no other carrier to change to this entire time.

I think I win the lack of FiOS pain award.
Ulmo
join:2005-09-22
Aptos, CA

Ulmo

Member

Re: Pain.

I'm just geeky enough to make friends with someone that 30 second walk away, then order service somehow, then run cabling (illegally) through fences and such to get at that stuff. Maybe a loop network so that when gardeners and alert property owners see the cables and clip them, my network keeps running until I can reseal the loop again (using another path).

The "blight" of too many cables is something we ought to ease up on so that people can wire themselves more freely. Overage of "blight" ought to be an incentive for owners and municipalities to offer less blighty alternatives.
biochemistry
Premium Member
join:2003-05-09
92361

biochemistry to DAOWAce

Premium Member

to DAOWAce
I have satellite. You lose.
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