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Will You Need A Second Mortgage To Pay Your Verizon LTE Bill?
Company again complains about the flat-rate pricing model that made billions...
by Karl Bode Monday 11-Jan-2010 tags: business · wireless · bandwidth
Ever since Verizon announced in 2007 that they'd be "opening up" their network, the writing was pretty much on the wall that if Verizon was going to be forced to give up their walled garden approach to content -- they'd wind up making up for the lost revenue with high broadband charges (in fact, we told you as much). It's several years later, and while Verizon's wireless network is only somewhat open, they've imposed a number of new, painfully expensive pricing models that carry caps between 25 and 75 megabytes. As the company moves toward launching 30 LTE markets in 2010, they're again pushing for an end to flat-rate pricing, according to The Washington Post:

"The problem we have today with flat-based usage is that you are trying to encourage customers to be efficient in use and applications but you are getting some people who are bandwidth hogs using gigabytes a month and they are paying something like megabytes a month," Lynch said. "That isn't long-term sustainable. Why should customers using an average amount of bandwidth be subsidizing bandwidth hogs?"

Lynch ignores the fact that the bandwidth hogs of today are the regular users of tomorrow. And while usage plans based on how much bandwidth consumed sound nice, the metered pricing models carriers actually wind up deploying frequently fail to offer consumer value, and rarely result in lighter users actually paying less money. While consumers have grown comfortable with flat-rate pricing (like the $30 per month for the iPhone), there has been a growing push in the investment community to end the flat rate pricing model -- because overages will generate huge returns as usage explodes.

Of course Verizon's current high-end wireless broadband pricing isnt fully flat-rate anyway. The company imposes a 5GB monthly usage cap, with overages for laptop 3G users who exceed that amount of usage. You'll recall that in late 2007, Verizon got in trouble with New York's Attorney General for advertising their capped wireless services as "unlimited." Metered usage in the wireless space is likely inevitable (consumers had no problem with 200% SMS hikes), so the question then becomes what kind of LTE pricing model will Verizon employ, and will it require a second mortgage?

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grydlok

join:2004-01-06
Richmond, VA

Start low

That is Verizon strategy. Next raise the hell out of it in the middle of the contract with an huge ETF.
Making all the sub's pay for cost of doing business, and paying taxes.

ropeguru
Premium
join:2001-01-25
Grafton, WV

Re: Start low

said by grydlok:

That is Verizon strategy. Next raise the hell out of it in the middle of the contract with an huge ETF.
Making all the sub's pay for cost of doing business, and paying taxes.
If they start low and change my rates mid stream, that will mean that I will be able to cancel my services with no ETF and I will very quickly do so. I have no problem going back to a basic cell phone and dropping all my data services. They are nice to have but not a necessity. Hopefully, a lot more people will do the same and actually drop Verizon's revenue.

I am know that we must have investors and how the whole corporate thing runs. But screw those that want to buy today and make a fortune tomorrow by selling. We need more of the long term investors in the market and kick out all those get rich quick tards.
jp10558
Premium
join:2005-06-24
Willseyville, NY

Verizon is killing what (little) value for money there is

I don't see why it needs to be inevitable nor require a second mortgage... If it costs too much, just don't use it. As much as I hate to sound like TK, I feel like if a company refuses to offer value, I refuse to buy the product.

I recently had my cell die. I was fine for a week without it. I was able to get an old phone a friend had for free hooked back up so I'm back to the same cost as before. If work had required I have a cell phone (which mine doesn't), I'd have asked them to pay for it, and if they refused I'd have counted that cost in when asking for a raise, and I'd have looked into a tax write-off.

During my time deciding what to do about a cell phone, I considered a Droid, but figured that not only did I not really need to pay $150 (don't have a contract, so I could have signed one to get a deal), I really didn't want a contract (still) and moreso didn't want an additional $540 a year for the current mobile net access pricing, forget about it going up... I just don't need to read my e-mail that much, and where I do need to read it, I have a desktop where costs are more reasonable (free to me at work for instance).

Maybe I'm stingy, but I'll either need to be making a bunch more money, or costs will have to come way down on data plans for me to seriously consider mobile data access.
--
Opera 10(Build 1750); Windows XP Pro SP3;Intel C2Q6600; 3GB DDR2 1066; 1M/128k DSL; Antivir Personal; Comodo Internet Security 3.10;Proxomitron 4.5j Sidki 2009-06-06,GPG ID:0x0A1C6EE3

BF69
Premium
join:2004-07-28
Camden, TN

Re: Verizon is killing what (little) value for money there is

said by jp10558:

I don't see why it needs to be inevitable nor require a second mortgage... If it costs too much, just don't use it. As much as I hate to sound like TK, I feel like if a company refuses to offer value, I refuse to buy the product.
Almost like saying if food is too expensvie don't eat. Now I know a cell phone isn't life and death but the point is there is no reason for a company to be an ass about things. Verizon can still make billions while keeping customers happy. I suggest they try it.

Oh by the way Verizon requires most people to get a data plan if they upgrade thier phone even if they don't plan on using any data. Now you can't tell me that's ok.
openbox9

join:2004-01-26
Alexandria, VA
kudos:1

Re: Verizon is killing what (little) value for money there is

Don't get a "pseudo-smart phone" and you don't have to worry about a data plan.

BF69
Premium
join:2004-07-28
Camden, TN

Re: Verizon is killing what (little) value for money there is

said by openbox9:

Don't get a "pseudo-smart phone" and you don't have to worry about a data plan.
Hey smart guy Verizon's new rule is ANY phone that can access the web, which is is about ALL of their phones they offer, requires a data plan now.
bn1221

join:2009-04-29
Cortland, NY

Re: Verizon is killing what (little) value for money there is

Hey smart guy Verizon's new rule is ANY phone that can access the web, which is is about ALL of their phones they offer, requires a data plan now.

++++++++++

Not true. The LG Chocolate Touch and the NV3 still can be purchased without the recurring fee. They do make you sign for the 0.00 pay as you go data plan but I have 20 or so NV3s that are my flat monthly 450 minutes for 34.95

KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK
Reviews:
·AT&T DSL Service
said by openbox9:

Don't get a "pseudo-smart phone" and you don't have to worry about a data plan.
That's like saying "Just buy a Golf Cart instead of the car you want so you won't have to worry about getting a speeding ticket."
--
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." -- Benito Mussolini
openbox9

join:2004-01-26
Alexandria, VA
kudos:1

Re: Verizon is killing what (little) value for money there is

No, it's like saying buy a golf cart if you're only interested in playing golf. If you want to drive on the roadways, you buy a car and pay accordingly.

KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK
Reviews:
·AT&T DSL Service

Re: Verizon is killing what (little) value for money there is

No, it's like saying "If you buy a car, and dare take it out of the driveway, we're converting the roads you need to drive on to tollways."
--
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." -- Benito Mussolini
openbox9

join:2004-01-26
Alexandria, VA
kudos:1

Re: Verizon is killing what (little) value for money there is

But if you aren't going to use the roadways, you have no need for a car, and therefore won't pay any tolls.

If you aren't going to use the "smart" part of your phone, then save yourself some money and don't purchase a smartphone. Seems fairly straightforward to me.

KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK
Reviews:
·AT&T DSL Service

Re: Verizon is killing what (little) value for money there is

Smartphones have more uses then just phone calls! They are little computers. Many people for example have used the smartphones for phones, but then used WiFi for internet access on same phone.

Basically, Verizon, and others, are looking to penalize you for buying what you want.

Look at it this way: You buy a new car, which you like and has the performance you want, but then, surprise, you're required to buy XM satellite radio or the car won't work. (IE, not optional.) That's pretty silly.
--
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." -- Benito Mussolini
openbox9

join:2004-01-26
Alexandria, VA
kudos:1

Re: Verizon is killing what (little) value for money there is

If you want a "little computer" and don't feel like paying for it through VZ, then shop around elsewhere. VZ isn't penalizing you for buying what you want, it is exploiting maximum profit from you for a luxury item that you're willing to pay for. That's business.

Last analogy. You know that you have to subscribe to XM before you purchase the car. If you don't like the sales/lease agreement, then by all means, shop for a different car.

CylonRed
Premium,MVM
join:2000-07-06
Bloom County

Re: Verizon is killing what (little) value for money there is

Except fopr those of us with a phone they consider a smart phone and you won't use the web but they will force you to pay for it. So if i wanted to stay with better coverage I have to pay for a part of a plan I will never use. So now I will be forced to leave to a service that does nto work as well.

I am less than enthused and happy about their decision... Hopefully those of us that do not use the web at all on their phones like my family and IL's will leave instead of pay for it and Verizon will feel the pinch. Doubt they will feel the pinch but I can hope.
--
Brian

"It drops into your stomach like a Abrams's tank.... driven by Rosanne Barr..." A. Bourdain
openbox9

join:2004-01-26
Alexandria, VA
kudos:1

Re: Verizon is killing what (little) value for money there is

said by CylonRed:

Except fopr those of us with a phone they consider a smart phone and you won't use the web but they will force you to pay for it. So if i wanted to stay with better coverage I have to pay for a part of a plan I will never use. So now I will be forced to leave to a service that does nto work as well.
If you have an existing contract, you should be good until expiration. You could get a different phone otherwise. Or suck it up as another below-the-line rate increase.

CylonRed
Premium,MVM
join:2000-07-06
Bloom County

Re: Verizon is killing what (little) value for money there is

I am not on contract - my IL's are but I am not. I tried to keep them off of the contract but my FIL believes that the service will stop if not on a contract. He ignores the fact I have not had a contract for 2 years...
--
Brian

"It drops into your stomach like a Abrams's tank.... driven by Rosanne Barr..." A. Bourdain

KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK
Reviews:
·AT&T DSL Service
A company that forces you to pay for something you don't want and don't use is wrong, period and only happens if they are in a position of insufficient market competition where they can abuse customers.

I think because of the continuous abuse in the telecom sector we're going to need regulations that allow consumers to walk at a whim and at no cost to the consumer and with no hold-ups or delays. All expenses eaten by the carriers. That way maybe they'll have to wise up and stop trying to scam people for extra $$$, and actually worry about their customers leaving them.
--
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." -- Benito Mussolini
openbox9

join:2004-01-26
Alexandria, VA
kudos:1

Re: Verizon is killing what (little) value for money there is

said by KrK:

A company that forces you to pay for something you don't want and don't use is wrong
Who's holding the gun to your head? You might want to jump in the VZ bashing thread on the top of the front page

KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK
Reviews:
·AT&T DSL Service

Re: Verizon is killing what (little) value for money there is

said by openbox9:

said by KrK:

A company that forces you to pay for something you don't want and don't use is wrong
Who's holding the gun to your head?
In this case, the gun has "Verizon" written along the barrel.
--
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." -- Benito Mussolini
openbox9

join:2004-01-26
Alexandria, VA
kudos:1

Re: Verizon is killing what (little) value for money there is

So you're blaming the gun manufacturer for you pulling the trigger? Sounds like a whole different debate

CylonRed
Premium,MVM
join:2000-07-06
Bloom County
If they are the best for reception where you need it or use it - Verizon is holding the gun. Especially those folks using cells as their primary phone or travel a lot.
--
Brian

"It drops into your stomach like a Abrams's tank.... driven by Rosanne Barr..." A. Bourdain
openbox9

join:2004-01-26
Alexandria, VA
kudos:1

Re: Verizon is killing what (little) value for money there is

But you still have choice, whether it be carrier or the phone you choose to use.

CylonRed
Premium,MVM
join:2000-07-06
Bloom County

1 edit

Re: Verizon is killing what (little) value for money there is

Not if another carrier does not cover the areas I need very well - one big reason for switching to Verizon for my wife and I. If even the basic phones (like I have) can get the web (it can) then there is no choice now is there? I have noticed this is the SECOND time I have mentioned this and you are ignoring by just repeating the 'switch' mantra and in cases - that is not a viable alternative.

And again - for those where they use the cell as their main phone and other carriers do not cover their area well - then that is a much larger issue is it not?

You can say switch all you want and that means choice but not all cell companies cover the same area well or well enough which could very well mean there is no real choice.

It is the "Pay us for something you will not use - or use the inferior service".

That is not a real choice in my opinion.
--
Brian

"It drops into your stomach like a Abrams's tank.... driven by Rosanne Barr..." A. Bourdain
openbox9

join:2004-01-26
Alexandria, VA
kudos:1

Re: Verizon is killing what (little) value for money there is

said by CylonRed:

And again - for those where they use the cell as their main phone and other carriers do not cover their area well - then that is a much larger issue is it not?
It's not an issue. A conscious choice was made to use a mobile phone. A conscious choice can be made to not use a mobile phone if the cost of using it is unacceptable.
said by CylonRed:

It is the "Pay us for something you will not use - or use the inferior service".
Or don't pay them, the choice that our society seems to have forgotten. If the cost of service is too exorbitant, then save your money and drop your service. You can also choose a different phone. I have an old VZW phone that is only a phone. There's a refurb phone that's voice only on VZW's website right now. I'm sure you can find VZW phones on Ebay if you're really determined.

CylonRed
Premium,MVM
join:2000-07-06
Bloom County

Re: Verizon is killing what (little) value for money there is

And when those phones are gone and not available? It would still be ok I guess from your standpoint. It will happen - don't kid yourself that they won't be... Quite frankly - I trust no one on eBay - I do not buy from anyone on there. No real way to who is not scamming people. Just like I do not buy things from local stores for the same reason.

Again - the choice will eventually disappear but if you think Verizon won't continue the policy until forced to - well - I have a bridge to sell you.

And again - you assume that service with other providers is ok in the same area which for a number of cell companies - it is not. Something you have continually ignored in my posts. Could switch and pay more for the only other service that has close to the same quality. Not a good consumer choice imho.

When my phone breaks I will give Verizon the chance to sell me a phone that has no data plan - if they refuse then I will have to get with my IL's and hope another service has the same quality in the same places. If not - the consumer will suffer again - not Verizon...

Be entirely different if we bought phones and cell service in Europe - buy any phone we want and we go to the cell company and buy the services we want.
--
Brian

"It drops into your stomach like a Abrams's tank.... driven by Rosanne Barr..." A. Bourdain
openbox9

join:2004-01-26
Alexandria, VA
kudos:1

Re: Verizon is killing what (little) value for money there is

said by CylonRed:

And again - you assume that service with other providers is ok in the same area which for a number of cell companies - it is not. Something you have continually ignored in my posts.
I've read your post every time. I'm not talking about mobile voice options.
said by CylonRed:

Be entirely different if we bought phones and cell service in Europe - buy any phone we want and we go to the cell company and buy the services we want.
How would that change anything for you if you still only have a single choice for wireless voice? It would give you more options of phones that you would get billed for by Verizon.

CylonRed
Premium,MVM
join:2000-07-06
Bloom County
Verizon has never forced my IL's or wife to get a data plan when they got phones last year - of course none had a PDA or the like. Just regular phones. I am off contract with Verizon and no where is it mentioned if I get a new phone I have to get a data plan (or text plan for that matter).
--
Brian

"It drops into your stomach like a Abrams's tank.... driven by Rosanne Barr..." A. Bourdain

Camelot One
Premium,MVM
join:2001-11-21
Austin, TX
kudos:1

Re: Verizon is killing what (little) value for money there is

said by CylonRed:

Verizon has never forced my IL's or wife to get a data plan when they got phones last year - of course none had a PDA or the like. Just regular phones. I am off contract with Verizon and no where is it mentioned if I get a new phone I have to get a data plan (or text plan for that matter).
"Smart" phones require a data plan. Regular phones do not.
--
Intel Q6600 @3400Mhz/GA-EP35-DS3P/4x 2048Mb G.Skill/WD Raptor 300Gb/3x WD20EADS 2TB/2x PNY GTX 260/Silverstone 850W/Custom water cooler

Simba7

join:2003-03-24
Billings, MT

1 edit

Re: Verizon is killing what (little) value for money there is

Which if you get a plain ol' phone, you probably won't have to get data.. but with most of the "new" phones being a "Smart Phone", you'll be stuck with one like it or not.

..even the LG Titan.. It doesn't run Windows Mobile, Palm, or iPhone OS.. But it's still considered a "Smart Phone" due to its' HTML browser (which if I get told that one more time, I'm gonna deck someone due to being a complete idiot).
--
Bresnan 15M/1M|MyWS[P4HT@4.01GHz,2GB RAM,2x1TB HDDs,Win7]|WifeWS[P4@2.4GHz,1GB RAM,60GB HDD,Win7]|Router[2xP3@1GHz,640MB RAM,18GB HDD,Allied Telesyn AT-2560FX,Kingston KNE100TX,2xDigital DE504,Compaq NC3131,iPro/1000DP,Blitz BWI715,Gentoo Linux]

BF69
Premium
join:2004-07-28
Camden, TN
said by Camelot One:

said by CylonRed:

Verizon has never forced my IL's or wife to get a data plan when they got phones last year - of course none had a PDA or the like. Just regular phones. I am off contract with Verizon and no where is it mentioned if I get a new phone I have to get a data plan (or text plan for that matter).
"Smart" phones require a data plan. Regular phones do not.
Actually nearly ALL phones Verizon offers are consdiered "smart phones" if it can access the web you need a data plan.

The reason why you and your wife weren't forced to get a data plan is because you got phones LAST year. This is a new requirement. And yes as long as you don't change your current plan you are grandfathered in. Change your plan in any way and if you have a phone that can access the web you WILL be required to get a data plan that starts out at $10 a month. Even if you never intened to use it.

CylonRed
Premium,MVM
join:2000-07-06
Bloom County

Re: Verizon is killing what (little) value for money there is

In which case they can kiss my.... And I can probably get all 4 of us to switch to Cincinnatti Bell. Although we do not change the plan unless they can do a 450 minute plan instead of the 700 minute family plan.
--
Brian

"It drops into your stomach like a Abrams's tank.... driven by Rosanne Barr..." A. Bourdain

ThrowDemsOut
If you can't convince 'em, confuse 'em
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Mullica Hill, NJ
kudos:4
You can now buy an unsubsidized smartphone like the Nexus One; use WiFi for almost all data needs; and get a pay as you go plan from the cell company for voice.
tomz17

join:2004-01-09
Newark, NJ

Re: Verizon is killing what (little) value for money there is

said by ThrowDemsOut:

You can now buy an unsubsidized smartphone like the Nexus One; use WiFi for almost all data needs; and get a pay as you go plan from the cell company for voice.
... except that carriers have wised up to this.

Verizon will require a data plan for any smartphone (they know which ones are smart phones based on ESN). There is no "I will use only wifi, and pay for my 3g data a-la carte option"

Even AT&T now supposedly uses the IMEI to FORCE data plans onto customers!

Furthermore, there is no low-cost pay-as-you-go data plan in the US. The cheapest for GSM is AT&T's $5 for 1 megabyte, or $19.99 for 100 megabytes. Their prepaid voice rates are pretty ludicrous, though! The cheapest for CDMA is probably pageplus, with their 20 or 50 megs of included data.

Camelot One
Premium,MVM
join:2001-11-21
Austin, TX
kudos:1

Re: Verizon is killing what (little) value for money there is

said by tomz17:

except that carriers have wised up to this.

Verizon will require a data plan for any smartphone (they know which ones are smart phones based on ESN). There is no "I will use only wifi, and pay for my 3g data a-la carte option"

Even AT&T now supposedly uses the IMEI to FORCE data plans onto customers!

This is the part the really pisses me off. Subsidized phones (where they give you a discount for signing a contract) requiring a data plan if its a smart phone, ok. It's just their way of guaranteeing a return on the discount. Still a bit of a scam, but I'm ok with it.

But if I bring a paid-in-full phone in for activation, they STILL force a data plan when I don't want/need one. That to me is a matter the FCC needs to take up.

Though as proven with the phantom data fee, the FCC is toothless.
--
Intel Q6600 @3400Mhz/GA-EP35-DS3P/4x 2048Mb G.Skill/WD Raptor 300Gb/3x WD20EADS 2TB/2x PNY GTX 260/Silverstone 850W/Custom water cooler

jonnyz
Premium
join:2003-03-20
Canfield, OH
Reviews:
·Armstrong Zoom ..

Re: Verizon is killing what (little) value for money there is

You can still get around this with ATT in contract or on Pay As You Go (I have done both):

1. Bring an old $20 unlocked GSM non-smartphone to them, get a contract with non-smartphone data, and swap the SIM into your unlocked GSM smartphone of choice.
2. Buy a GoPhone plan with the crappiest phone possible and swap the SIM into your GSM smartphone of choice.

And I highly doubt they come after users via IMEI for data plans. My Nokia E51 has never needed a data package - I use WiFi for all my data - not to mention the IMEI changes during unlocking in many GSM phones.
--
Join the RC5 team.

ThrowDemsOut
If you can't convince 'em, confuse 'em
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Mullica Hill, NJ
kudos:4
said by tomz17:

Furthermore, there is no low-cost pay-as-you-go data plan in the US.
»www.boostmobile.com/
tomz17

join:2004-01-09
Newark, NJ

Re: Verizon is killing what (little) value for money there is

said by ThrowDemsOut:

said by tomz17:

Furthermore, there is no low-cost pay-as-you-go data plan in the US.
»www.boostmobile.com/
Is stand corrected, but unlimited iden... no thanks... if you want to go that route, then you should also consider the free QNC on pageplus!

Simba7

join:2003-03-24
Billings, MT
One alternative is those Straight Talk plans I see alot on TV lately from Walmart and Tracfone.

$30/mo for 1000 Anytime/1000 Mobile-to-Mobile/30MB of Data
..or $45/mo for Unlimited Everything

..but you are restricted to their phones.. which kinda sucks. I'd love to swap my ESN's between my Touch Pro and a Straight Talk phone.. or see if Straight Talk would even consider adding my phone to a plan.
--
Bresnan 15M/1M|MyWS[P4HT@4.01GHz,2GB RAM,2x1TB HDDs,Win7]|WifeWS[P4@2.4GHz,1GB RAM,60GB HDD,Win7]|Router[2xP3@1GHz,640MB RAM,18GB HDD,Allied Telesyn AT-2560FX,Kingston KNE100TX,2xDigital DE504,Compaq NC3131,iPro/1000DP,Blitz BWI715,Gentoo Linux]
BosstonesOwn

join:2002-12-15
Everett, MA

Re: Verizon is killing what (little) value for money there is

im all of about a week from dropping Verizon and taking my droid to metro pcs , just the money I will be saving is worth the etf.
--
"It's always funny until someone gets hurt......and then it's absolutely friggin' hysterical!"

anonym

@rochester.edu
said by Simba7:

..but you are restricted to their phones.. which kinda sucks. I'd love to swap my ESN's between my Touch Pro and a Straight Talk phone.. or see if Straight Talk would even consider adding my phone to a plan.
Another alternative is page plus. You can activate any verizon phone on their service

Hint : Swapping ESN's is technically possible on the Touch pro with certain versions of the radio rom, but it is sadly illegal in the USA. Verizon has also removed all MOU and vcast data in the new plans effectively removing any financial advantage of spoofing a phone on verizon.
bn1221

join:2009-04-29
Cortland, NY
Straight talk uses Verizon CDMA for that so you can't swap SIMs. They are rolling out Blackberry support soon. I have a ton of BB8830s I want to use a full keyboard text phones - don't really need data just need a keyboard and don't want to pay VZ 29.99 data for a bleeping phone.

fifty nine

join:2002-09-25
Sussex, NJ
kudos:1

They don't want to become another AT&T

Look at the mess that AT&T has with the iPhone and you will see why all you can eat is an unsustainable business model.

See 7 replies to this post
ShellMMG

join:2009-04-16
Grass Lake, MI

When Worlds Collide

Customers are being promised the sun, moon, stars and a few galaxies when it comes to what's available on the internet. HD movies on your new LCD 52" TV, music, video phones (again!?), watching TV episodes, etc. Look at all the new toys brought out at the CES -- so many of them involve more and more bandwidth use! The future looks bright unless you look through it with the narrow lens of a bandwidth cap.

I lived under Wildblue's cap for two years. Even though I wasn't charged for going over my 10G limit, I'm very sensitive to my usage and fear for my internet life once my grandfathered Alltel contract expires. What's going to happen when people fall in love with the new offerings and hit that expensive cap? This is a bigger, broader issue that's not being dealt with as loudly as it should.
jjeffeory

join:2002-12-04
USA

Re: When Worlds Collide

Right. This has been my question for a couple of years. Some of these companies are creating a demand for more bandwidth. Others companies ( ISPs) are going to try and capitalize on this to the point by crying about the bandwidth apocalypse and the need to cap and bill per byte. Which side will win?
ciucca

join:2004-05-24
Westfield, NJ

1 edit

Truth be Told

Wireless data on a hand held device is a luxury not a necessity, that some people think it is due to marketing. The world operated fine before EVDO, LTE, and even wireless voice. The only way Verizon and other companies will provide good service at a fair price is if people stop buying these luxury toys, when they barely have enough money to pay the bills and buy food. What a bunch of suckers we are!
ShellMMG

join:2009-04-16
Grass Lake, MI

Re: Truth be Told

Wireless data on "toys" may be a luxury, but will VZW's LTE limits extend to things like data cards? That's what I use (Huawei EC228) and it's my ONLY choice for internet access. T-Mobile, AT&T, Sprint and other networks don't reach me yet and I can't find any information on future expansion in my area. It's VZW, satellite (AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGH!) or nothing.

bear73
Metnav... Fly The Unfriendly Skies
Premium
join:2001-06-09
Grand Forks Afb, ND

Re: Truth be Told

you mean to tell me that you have mobile broadband coverage but no land-line internet coverage/acess? no cable tv/internet? no DSL?(well, THAT I can believe)
--
If ya gotta go, Go with a SMILE!
»www.thereligionofpeace.com/
ShellMMG

join:2009-04-16
Grass Lake, MI

Re: Truth be Told

You are correct. I have no access to cable (and probably never will). My TV is Direct TV. We don't have a landline phone because we DO have cell phone coverage, so why pay +$30 a month in taxes and fees for telemarketers to pester me?

WiMax is just a few miles to the north. I've been bugging them to put up an antenna/transmitter in my area but they insist nobody wants it.

Killa200
Premium
join:2005-12-02
Southeast TN

Re: Truth be Told

Find out how far there antenna is, how high it is compared to you, and what frequency it operates on... then work with them to set you up. Several wireless frequencies that these radios work on will operate for MILES with the right setup and Line of Sight.
kash

join:2005-08-13
Houston, TX

iphone lte verizon

and this is why if the iphone comes out on the verizon network it will be shitty... can you imagine... checking your data usage meter daily to see how much data u have left.. shitty.

fifty nine

join:2002-09-25
Sussex, NJ
kudos:1

Re: iphone lte verizon

said by kash:

and this is why if the iphone comes out on the verizon network it will be shitty... can you imagine... checking your data usage meter daily to see how much data u have left.. shitty.
As opposed to slow and unusable but unlimited on AT&T?
glinc

join:2009-04-07
New York, NY

meh

And I've heard somewhere that they will start to require data plans on all their 3G phones. Remove the $19.99 option and keep the current $9.99 and add a $29.99 for 3G Phones.

spamd
Premium
join:2001-04-22
Cherry Valley, IL

T1 would be cheaper

I have a user that uses a Verizon aircard for their internet because a) they live out in the boonies and b) she needs to work from home.

One week she asked my boss if she could just leave on the SSL VPN while connected. She did leave it on for 5 days and guess what. She consumed 10GB for the month. Costing us $1500.00 on that line. Now as a business I was able to talk them down to half because we do pay $6000-7000 a month for other services such as Blackberries and cell phones.

What I don't understand is if your average joe us using this service and innocently goes over the 5GB and gets charged $1500, do you really think that he is going to pay this?? vs his mortgage or car payment? I think not.

What Verizon should do is charge $60 per 5GB. This pricing model should also curve the bandwidth hogs.
--
When everything is coming your way, you are in the wrong lane.
jjeffeory

join:2002-12-04
USA

Re: T1 would be cheaper

That's also outrageously too expensive.
tomz17

join:2004-01-09
Newark, NJ

Other countries

The "we need to charge more to provide this service otherwise our networks will overload" is complete bunk.

I was recently in Poland on a trip. A prepaid starter kit sim card for my unlocked cell phone cost $3 (and came with $7 of starter credit). With a $10 refill, I got a 15 month expiration, 1000 text messages, and free calls to one phone number. Incoming calls/texts are free in europe (caller pays). I could FREELY roam on two (out of four) national networks in Poland. Outgoing calls cost me $0.02 anywhere in the country, and $0.04 per minute to the USA using skype to go ($0.02 call to skype warsaw to go number + skype US rate of $0.02). THAT CELLULAR INTERNATIONAL CALL IS CHEAPER (by about a factor of 2) THAN A LOCAL CALL FROM WITHIN THE US WITH THE CHEAPEST PREPAID CELL PROVIDER HERE!

3G data cost about $5 for 500 megs. It actually gets cheaper if you buy larger packages. (AT&T, the only option for prepaid GSM data in the US, charges $5 for 1 megabyte!)

Furthermore, this PREPAID sim card roams pretty much anywhere on the planet (even satellite networks when placed in a sat phone) for really respectable rates. (US prepaid sim cards roam only in canada and mexico, and the postpaid sim cards will rape your wallet if you so much as look at your phone in a foreign country)

The population density of Poland is 122 per km^2, the population density of the US is 32 people per km^2.

Everyone there can afford AND USES 3G data and voice! It is marketed, and encouraged actually. There are no discernible problems with capacity, and nobody is shouting "pay us more or the sky will fall." Almost everyone I know has a smart phone, and actually uses data. We invented the phone, the internet, the computer, and the transistor. Why are we in the telecom dark ages? $13 in Poland got me a new sim card, 700 minutes of calls anywhere in the country, 1000 texts, free calls to 1 phone number, 500 megs of data, and a 15 month expiration date! Why do we accept that we need to pay $100+/month for a cell phone with data?
BosstonesOwn

join:2002-12-15
Everett, MA
Reviews:
·Comcast

Re: Other countries

»Worldwide Cellular coverage

Same comments we already discussed , and im sure multiple times before it.
--
"It's always funny until someone gets hurt......and then it's absolutely friggin' hysterical!"
sonicmerlin

join:2009-05-24
Cleveland, OH
kudos:1
This is so true. The degree of gouging that goes on in the US is utterly astrounding. It`s disgusting how much money people are forced to pay for wireless service.

Not everyone makes over $100,000 a year.

orly

@uk.net
I live in the UK.

I have a pay-as-you-go SIM from a more recent upstart network (one with among the best 3G coverage), and for my £10 topup (doesn't expire), I get 300 text messages, 150MB of data, unlimited same-network calls, free Skype (it uses the voice network to make voice calls) and free MSN. I also get my original £10.

If I wanted more data? £5 per month for 2GB, which I am not supposed to tether with but I can (not enforced), or £10 for 1GB where I can legitimately tether. Voice calls cost 20p/min.

Another nice thing about this is that if said network ups its rates or displeases me in some way, I'll just get a free SIM on another network and put it in my unlocked, unbranded phone, get my number ported within a couple of days (might be changing to a matter of minutes soon) and continue.

I could even get a rolling monthly SIM-free contract, where I get tons of value for not having a subsidised phone.
flyingjoey

join:2005-11-07
Jersey City, NJ

WiMax

So, is Sprint's WiMax all of a sudden the most affordable solution?
bakorican

join:2004-02-28
germany

Verizon and other US Carriers are full of it.

If Verizon, ATT, et al. were really only concerned with bandwidth usage and strain on their network they would implement what is being done here in Europe. For unlimited 3G Internet you get the first 5 Gigs at full speed, after that your connection gets throttled to GPRS speed. That gives a user no limit on how much they can consume, leaves in tact a Flat Rate Pricing model, and encourages a user to be conscious and reasonable about their Internet consumption.
tmc8080

join:2004-04-24
Brooklyn, NY
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS

Re: Verizon and other US Carriers are full of it.

said by bakorican:

If Verizon, ATT, et al. were really only concerned with bandwidth usage and strain on their network they would implement what is being done here in Europe. For unlimited 3G Internet you get the first 5 Gigs at full speed, after that your connection gets throttled to GPRS speed. That gives a user no limit on how much they can consume, leaves in tact a Flat Rate Pricing model, and encourages a user to be conscious and reasonable about their Internet consumption.
Wireless capacity is not the seemingly limitless infrastructure FIBER to the _anything_ has and is throttled, tiered and otherwise limited in the last mile(s). That said, wireless carriers will stunt the growth of handsets and wireless standards with their greed, extra fees & taxes.. but what else would you expect from Verizon and the rest?

A usage based model that works similar to a cablemodem throttling as you have mentioned will probably be the order of the day, but all in all you SHOULD be able to use voip over it without a dropout or similar problem while in motion, or at least that's the kind of application that would create an evolution of the wireless data marketplace-- making millions of DATA subscribers out of what is now only millions of VOICE subscribers (that use a data network).
jdjbuffalo

join:2004-01-17
Denver, CO
I think that is a very reasonable option and would take care of most issues people have.

The only caveat is that I would like to see them increase the cap as overall usage goes up.

With LTE, I would expect this to be in the neighborhood of 30-50+GBs.
sonicmerlin

join:2009-05-24
Cleveland, OH
kudos:1

Re: Verizon and other US Carriers are full of it.

said by jdjbuffalo:

I think that is a very reasonable option and would take care of most issues people have.

The only caveat is that I would like to see them increase the cap as overall usage goes up.

With LTE, I would expect this to be in the neighborhood of 30-50+GBs.
I`m in Japan and there are no caps on usage. 3G works everywhere, and I mean *everywhere*, and I have never heard about any problems with capacty whatsoever. Voice plans are also much cheaper here.

Bellundo

@dsl.bell.ca

Will You Need A Second Mortgage To Pay Your Verizon LTE Bill

Sounds like Rogers and Bell internet up in Canada where you need a second and third job to pay for the overuse charges as well as the fee increases every couple of months.
floydb1982

join:2004-08-25
Kent, WA
Reviews:
·Clearwire Wireless
·Comcast

Clear WiMAX is better than LTE

Clear WiMAX is a much better choice over LTE. WiMAX has for coverage and it come's with no monthly cap. Who is there right mind would get this LTE service if it come's with a 25 to 75 megabye cap per month? It's already clear to me that WiMAX has won and LTE has already lost.

Jim_in_VA

join:2004-07-11
Cobbs Creek, VA
kudos:3

Re: Clear WiMAX is better than LTE

Amen to that floyd ... Clear/Sprint certainly have their pricing structure consumer friendly. Screw Verizon
--
... need help? »evdo-tips.com/
ccuts

join:2009-09-24
Palatine, IL
Sprint/Clearwire also has plenty of spectrum to handle a lot more subscribers. Looks like LTE has an ability to cause oversubscription faster than the oversubscription on Verizon's EVDO Rev A and AT&T's HSUP, HSPDA or whatever flavor they're using this week.

What is LTE going to offer when IEEE 802.16m (WiMax2) hits the street about the same time AT&T starts offering LTE?

Dryvlyne
Far Beyond Driven
Premium
join:2004-08-30
Newark, OH

Capitalism sucks

Technology makes the cost of doing business cheaper and more efficient, but you'll never see a company in a capitalist country pass those savings on to consumers. Companies are all about doing more with less and making more $$$ while doing less. Capitalism sucks... unless of course you're the one at the top doing the pillaging of those below you.
--
In relative terms life is shorter than the blink of an eye. Remember that each and every day because in the end it's not about what you've done but how you've lived.

grey hair

@cox.net

$0.02

If you don't like it, don't sign up for it. I am not shilling for the carriers, I use both Verizon and AT&T wireless as well as Cox and would love to pay less, but there is no gun to my head. I am also an early adopter and old enough to remember what this stuff used to cost. It is fantastically cheap compared to 20 years ago, works infinitely better, and I make far more money to be able to pay for it. As for caps, my laptop runs 8 or more hours per day with VPN connection to my mail server (thousands of emails, many with attachments per month) as well as all the surfing I care to do on VZ EVDO. This isn't my only connection, but I run one of my businesses 100% this way. No caps, no problems. BTW if all of this is so easy, why don't you experts get together and bootstrap a network? If I were younger, I might invest.

HarleyYac
Yaco
Premium
join:2001-10-13
Allendale, NJ
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Optimum Online
·Verizon FiOS

It is simple

With IP Tv becoming a reality and Movies streaming from your Xbox,NetFlix,PS3, cell phone, Iphone they need to milk the cow (ie :You and Me) in a differnent fashion. If they don't why would anyone need to subscribe to Fios,OOL,TWC for TV or Movies. They now need to prepare for the next move be it wireless or wired.
Lee
Chaldo

join:2008-03-18
West Bloomfield, MI

VZW To mandate ALL 3G devices have Data now!

This companies evil... as I said before? You want "openness" Well open your fucking wallet and give them all your money first!

AT&T's unlimited data on dumbphones is 15.00 and with family messaging its 9.99, also its not required.

have fun all you VZW users

»www.boygeniusreport.com/2010/01/···devices/

ptrowski
Got Helix?
Premium
join:2005-03-14
Putnam, CT
kudos:4

Re: VZW To mandate ALL 3G devices have Data now!

Nice find. That is ridiculous.
massysett

join:2006-01-04
Silver Spring, MD

Bandwidth hogs will always exist

Lynch ignores the fact that the bandwidth hogs of today are the regular users of tomorrow.

No, he doesn't ignore that at all. There will always be bandwidth hogs. The bandwidth hogs of today who are using a gazillion bytes will be the bandwidth hogs of tomorrow who are using a quadgazillion bytes.

I agree with him. I am not a bandwidth hog, I don't use a gazillion bytes today. Even though I will use a gazillion bytes tomorrow, I won't use a quadgazillion bytes tomorrow, and I don't see why my wireless bill or home broadband bill should be the same as a guy who downloads porn nonstop and never leaves his mother's basement.

Buhjeebus

@cafes.net

It's not broadband...

If you cap it, throttle it, molest it in any way that prevents me from using it, it ain't broadband. Is the internet a service, or is it an item (like a pie) meant for consumption? I argue the former. Anybody that advertises "broadband" should be forced to adhere to a similar definition. If you sell people 30 days of "broadband" service; it should work for 30 days. Period. And at no additional charge for USING said service. I am sick and tired of ISP's that say, 'Here's your broadband, sir... just be sure you don't USE it!' Until we demand that as consumers; net neutrality will always be up in the air.
cyclone_z

join:2006-06-19
Ames, IA

Most will be happy to pay it!

Yes you will and yes people will pay for it. "We can't pay the heating bill but we can talk, text, AND update our facebook status from anywhere!!!"

What I'd like to know is how can I profit from this!

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