 | | doesnt suprise me Att and tw wishes they could do what they did. Jealous maybe you couldnt do it there att and tw ? | |
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 ·SureWest Internet
·AT&T Yahoo
 ·Comcast
| Re: doesnt suprise me said by hayabusa3303:Att and tw wishes they could do what they did. Jealous maybe you couldnt do it there att and tw ? we the people can put time warner and att out of business for good
stop paying for their lousy service
cancel it whether you have an alternative or not
don't let them be the only choice in your community
we all will pay indefinitely for slow speed as long as we continue to fund these evil monopoly
they cannot exist without our funds... they only exist because we allow them to
they will continue to fight to keep better alternative canned for as long as they are in business
comcast, att, and road runner in my humble opinion are all monopoly
It seem that they only care about one thing... profits at expense of the public interest
since no one is competing with them, they can do as they please and you ain't got any choice but to pay whatever they want and as long as they want...like a drug addict for life. | |
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·WOW Internet and..
| Re: doesnt suprise me and while you cancel service with them, your other provider will end up using them at some point for services. ATT owns a good share of the internet backbone. they're hard to avoid. The company that created TWC also owns a good share of content. Which i'm sure TW still owns a good share of TWC even though TWC is listed as its own company.
Good luck on avoiding both companies. YOU will support them one way or another.
Also don't like them? Compete against them. Start your OWN ISP without gov't funding. | |
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me1212
join:2008-11-20
Pleasant Hill, MO | I hope TW and ATT loose! There I said it! | |
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| | When you don't have to be responsible... When you don't have to be responsible for the money you spend you can do things like this.
"Ban cities from pricing service below the cost of providing the service."
Oh you mean like run the network like a real business and not a government agency? If they would only apply this law to everything government does. | |
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|  BitPremium
join:2009-02-19
00000 | Re: When you don't have to be responsible... Oh, they mean like the predatory pricing Comcast was engaged in?
»Comcast Vs. Utopia
»'Discounted' Competition
...or Verizon who in competitive markets charges FAR less for 50Mb service than they do in other markets. | |
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| | | | Re: When you don't have to be responsible... If comcast runs out of money in their ventures they can go to someone who will willing give them money. If the City government runs out of money they go to the taxpayers who have to give the money if they are willing or not. | |
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| | | BitPremium
join:2009-02-19
00000 | Re: When you don't have to be responsible... No, Comcast being in an oligopoly simply raises their prices and they've been doing so at 3X the rate of inflation for more than a decade. | |
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| | | | | | Re: When you don't have to be responsible... As a consumer you can opt out of that rate increase by canceling your service. As a tax payer you can only move out of town. | |
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join:2009-02-19
00000 | Re: When you don't have to be responsible... Take it or leave it are not marketplace competitors, but rather the result of the lack of marketplace competitors. | |
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| | |  MattAll noise, no signal.Premium
join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC
kudos:12 | said by battleop:If comcast runs out of money in their ventures they can go to someone who will willing give them money. If the City government runs out of money they go to the taxpayers who have to give the money if they are willing or not. And the government NEVER gives free money to private business do they? Did you read the article? It mentions that in the past Embarq (the ILEC in the area) was given grants to build-out. Isn't that taxpayer money, only, it doesn't really benefit them as the return on that investment is piddly DSL.
You don't think government gives incentives, like tax breaks, right-of-way usage, and free land to local companies so they will come to their area? It's all taxpayer money, only in the case of the government, profits and golden parachutes aren't allowed so more of the money goes to benefit the citizens.
I'll take 100Mbps fiber for half the price any day. | |
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| | | | | | Re: When you don't have to be responsible... I don't care about AT&T and TWC, so don't think I am taking their side. It's the smaller providers who work their asses off, pay their city taxes both business and company build up their businesses only to get shit on by their city government. The smaller Wisp and ISP gets bent over and dry #$@#ed because of the ensuing price war between the city, the ILec, and CableCo.
Once the small providers are gone then you end up with things like Caps, by the byte billing and any other way the big guys get away with screwing your eyes out. | |
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| | | | | MattAll noise, no signal.Premium
join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC
kudos:12 | Re: When you don't have to be responsible... battleop  , while in an idealistic world I would agree with you, the fact is if the smaller ISP doesn't have the gumption to work with city government then they deserve the same fate as the big boys who won't deploy.
I've worked with a lot of city governments, both small and mid-sized, and they LOVE for small business to get involved and take the initiative on things like this. So I don't for one second feel bad for the little guys. | |
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| | | | | Sammer
join:2005-12-22
Canonsburg, PA | said by battleop:Once the small providers are gone then you end up with things like Caps, by the byte billing and any other way the big guys get away with screwing your eyes out. Haven't you noticed that except in areas the big guys don't consider profitable enough the little guys are going away anyway. It's not like that many members of Congress or State Legislators expect AT&T & TWC to be responsible. | |
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| | | | | | | | Re: When you don't have to be responsible... You might try and argue that in the wISP forum. That's where a lot of the smaller guys pick up the slack and thrive. | |
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|  KrKHeavy Artillery For The Little GuyPremium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK
·AT&T DSL Service
| said by battleop:"Ban cities from pricing service below the cost of providing the service." I'm all for a ban like this. Provided the local Cable companies and Telcos also have such a regulation that prohibits them from dumping their products below cost to put the public network under. Which is really the point of this ban: Force them to have a minimum price they can legally charge, then we'll lose money for a few years pricing under that price until it folds up and is sold off, then we'll go back to our gouging ways.
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"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." -- Benito Mussolini
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·WOW Internet and..
| Re: When you don't have to be responsible... The gov't can NOT tell a business how they set their prices unless its a Phone Company setting prices for dial-tone services. I'd like to see the Gov't go to TWC and Comcast and tell them they can't raise their prices anymore. How fast do you want your tax rate to go up? Someone will have to pay for the lawsuit that would bring on. And it would be you and everyone else paying taxes. Gov't lawyers don't come free. Why do you think the AG's office hasn't gone after AIG? Because it would cost too much to sue them. | |
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| | | DolganPremium
join:2005-10-01
Sun Prairie, WI Reviews:
·Charter
| Re: When you don't have to be responsible... quote:
The gov't can NOT tell a business how they set their prices unless its a Phone Company setting prices for dial-tone services. I'd like to see the Gov't go to TWC and Comcast and tell them they can't raise their prices anymore.
The Government can set prices if they decide to regulate Cable Cos like the Telcos. You are assuming that the Cable Cos would win a lawsuit against the FCC if they choose to regulate--if the cable co loses they could be on the hook for the Govt's legal cost. | |
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·WOW Internet and..
| Re: When you don't have to be responsible... Cable has own several suites against the FCC. One is still pending in Court over the nice cap on customers. The Courts ruled once in favor of the cable industry they'll win again.
And Yes the cable industry would win. Cable is an Information Service. Telco's are not.  | |
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| | | KrKHeavy Artillery For The Little GuyPremium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK Reviews:
·AT&T DSL Service
| But the Government can--- and does regulate industries based on a number of factors-- consumer protection being one (although rare these days.)
If they chose to do so, they could easily enact a law preventing Such and Such Cable Co from "dumping".
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"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." -- Benito Mussolini
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| | | | | | Re: When you don't have to be responsible... And such and such cable co would sue. Your bill goes up. Your taxes go up. A Win win for both the Gov't and the Cable company. What do you get? jack shit. | |
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| | | | | KrKHeavy Artillery For The Little GuyPremium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK Reviews:
·AT&T DSL Service
| Re: When you don't have to be responsible... Sue based on what? Government can govern. They could try and sue based on "we don't like this law" but that wouldn't be likely to be pass muster.
Basically, the point is, incumbent moves to block municipalities and towns etc from building their own networks are self-serving BS.
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"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." -- Benito Mussolini
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·WOW Internet and..
| Re: When you don't have to be responsible... They sue to block this because the gov't has one task. To manage the city and public safety NOT get into the issue of business and compete.
The Gov't should stay out of the business world and worry how they're going to balance their budget for the year and how they're going to spend their stimulus money wisely. NOT irresponsibly. | |
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MattAll noise, no signal.Premium
join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC
kudos:12 |  Serve the People
First Time Warner and now this, man I have too many letters to write this week. | |
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| | | Re: Serve the People You are correct in that manner, however you are jumping the gun when you say this will improve their lives. If they are able to attract new business b/c of this, then you are correct. However if their growth is low, then they will have to find a way to pay for it, which will come from taxpayers. This in turn doesn't improve their life, just the opposite, unless you mean now that being able to download their PR0N at 100megs will give them more time to spend with the family, then I see your point! | |
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BitPremium
join:2009-02-19
00000 | So much for the "anyone can get into the business" argument This is proof that our infrastructure needs severe gov't regulation because these corporate interests limit or refuse deployment or put customers over a barrel with draconian TOS/AUP, horrible service & high prices. Then when a town is fed up with the extortion and crap service and decides to deploy, the incumbents sue and bribe to stop new competitors from entering the market.
And before we read all the B.S. about how it's "unfair" to face muni competition, private hospitals, private schools, Fedex, UPS, space launch companies, and tons more compete with gov't every day and have no trouble. | |
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·WOW Internet and..
| Re: So much for the "anyone can get into the business" argument Anyone can. It's limited though. IT does NOT mean GOV'T Offices. Which include Cities. You can go out and build out a network. It's called Venture Capital. You know, WOW operates that way. Investors are a great thing to start a company.
Also if you think the Gov't ran run a business so great look at Amtrak. They're prices are 3 times what a bus ticket would cost to go to the same place, and also at times more than the air fare. The USPS is a bunch of crooks who buy their employees houses (when the employee wants to transfer) and expects to make out like a banchie on them. Instead they lose. What happens? The cost of the postage stamp goes up? What do you call that? The gov't at its finest. Taking from everyone else to pay off their spending and "businesses".
If the Feds were smart they'd offload Amtrak to Virgin (who does own airplanes in this country and one of the largest private train companies in the UK), sell AIG to HSBC (send them back to China where they came from) and sell the USPS off to itself and let them fend for themselves. After all UPS and FedEx can do it. Why can't the USPS?
The Gov't can't balance a damn budget let alone run a broadband network. And what does it matter if its FTTH? DOCSIS still has life. DSL isn't going anywhere anytime soon. and there is always U-Verse. And as private schools: they have some of the best education in this country, Private Hospitals always has higher health standards and always rank better than any public one. | |
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| | BitPremium
join:2009-02-19
00000 | Re: So much for the "anyone can get into the business" argument Obviously we see that not everyone can. | |
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| | | | said by hottboiinnc: After all UPS and FedEx can do it. Why can't the USPS? UPS and FedEx offer to deliver envelopes to anywhere in the US for 44 cents each?
Unless everyone is ready to pay $5 each to mail bills, the USPS is not going to operate like UPS and FedEx.
Did you stop and think that UPS and FedEx can do it because they are freight companies that deliver primarily to businesses? If either of those companies started delivering daily mail that the USPS delivers, they'd be screwed. | |
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| | | BitPremium
join:2009-02-19
00000
2 edits | Re: So much for the "anyone can get into the business" argument This isn't about USPS competing with UPS and Fedex, it's about UPS and Fedex competing with USPS.
What, you never heard of Express and Priority Mail or USPS International Shipping?
»www.usps.com/business/switch/wel···gShipper
You think the USPS only delivers First Class Mail? Of course USPS is huge competition for Fedex and UPS.
USPS offers services in direct competition with all non-freight services of Fedex and UPS including international shipping, complementary packaging, tracking and on-demand carrier pickup. Meanwhile UPS and Fedex do just fine in the domestic and international non-freight business. | |
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·WOW Internet and..
| Re: So much for the "anyone can get into the business" argument Have you heard the USPS charges you sur-charges to use the Post office? Yes, If you go into and have them print you a label for Express or Priority you pay a surcharge. The prices online are for online customers only.
Also the USPS is a lost business. They're losing more than what they make and what they can operate with. Also postage just went up. It's no longer 44cents.
Also UPS and FedEx will deliver a letter- for $1.00 with TRACKING! I don't see the USPS doing that. | |
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| | | | | BitPremium
join:2009-02-19
00000
3 edits | Re: So much for the "anyone can get into the business" argument You have never seen the surcharges levied by UPS...delivery area surcharge, fuel surcharge and yeah I pay extra to UPS for daily pickup (free from USPS) and their printer rental. Meanwhile you pay more going into Fedex-Kinkos or a UPS store to ship than if you have your own account.
UPS vs Fedex vs USPS is proof of private industry competing just fine with government just as private hospitals do and private schools do.
Meanwhile UPS and Fedex don't deliver that letter for $1.00, they simply pre-sort it. Last mile delivery is done by USPS »www.upsmailinnovations.com/servi···ail.html .
Proof that private and government competitors can also work together for mutual benefit. | |
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·WOW Internet and..
| Re: So much for the "anyone can get into the business" argument UPS Smart Mail is only for businesses that ship over 50 packages per week. You should read it. I have an account with UPS and i know how that works. And I do ship documents for $1 and it goes directly by UPS. Also I do not pay for pickups and I use my own printer to print my labels and i use regular paper or I use their labels--that are provided for free-unlike the USPS.
Also the USPS also CHARGES EXTRA if you buy postage at the counter for for packages.
UPS Stores are also NOT owned by UPS and set their own rates. They charge a "handling fee" that differs from store to store. FedEx- have no clue don't ship with them, and never will.
And as far as private schools and hospitals it has been proven you receive better care and education. The same as with the mail.
But as far as the Feds owning the post office- The post office doesn't say that. They're on their own. Remember so that means they should get any tax money. | |
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| | It's a shame I guess Wilson didn't have anything better it could do with $28 million than replicate a service offered by private companies. This is a totally irresponsible use of tax dollars. | |
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See 17 replies to this post |
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 Romney2012Defeat Obama 2012-Chg we can believe inPremium
join:2002-03-03
USA
kudos:4 |  Bills make good sense - avoid tax cross-subsidization
From the city officials complaining about these bills own web site:
»savencbb.wordpress.com/about/
The bills would:
* Prohibit cities from moving money between broadband and other divisions. So, Wilson citizens can’t expect to see any of their subscription fees go to pave streets and build basketball courts. Does that make sense?
* Ban cities from pricing service below the cost of providing the service. Cable and phone companies run temporary cheap sign-up specials all the time. I doubt they’re following that rule even now. In other words, the bills would prevent cities from finding more ways to raise taxes not dedicated to the reason they were created for in the 1st place. If city broadband can't pay its own way, then it shouldn't exist.
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My BLOG .. .. Internet News .. .. My Web Page | |
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 cdruGo ColtsPremium,MVM
join:2003-05-14
Fort Wayne, IN
kudos:5
 ·Frontier FiOS
| Bills make some sense to me The blog post found at the new website brings up the following two arguments regarding the bills introduced:
quote:
The bills would:
* Prohibit cities from moving money between broadband and other divisions. So, Wilson citizens can’t expect to see any of their subscription fees go to pave streets and build basketball courts. Does that make sense?
The first bullet is a little strange to me. It seems to be from reports here that muni-owned telecom seem to struggle and that subscriber fees don't always cover operational costs and that the government needs to subsidize the service. Telcos/Cablecos then argue that it's not a fair playing field as the service isn't paying for itself, it's using other public money to help subsidize it.
But then the blog says, if I'm reading it correctly, that they want to use subscription fees to "pave roads and build basketball courts. Does this make sense?". So obviously they have or at least expect a surplus for operational expenses.
My answer would be no, it doesn't make sense. Charge for the service what it costs to run the service. If you are charging that much more for that service that you can pave roads with the excess, then there is a problem. This is part of the problem with government...the charge for one thing and then use the money for another thing completely different then what was charged (taxed/surcharged/fee-ed). If you need extra money to pave roads and build basketball courts, then adjust the property tax rate that is suppose to pay for things like that. Don't up the telecom charges to help prop up your government and slip one past everyone.
Is it common for other city utilities (water, sewer, power) to use utilities fees to fund other operational expenses of the governement? I only have water/sewer/trash provided by the local government and my monthly fee goes towards only those service and their capital improvements...not to paving roads and building basketball hoops.
quote:
* Ban cities from pricing service below the cost of providing the service. Cable and phone companies run temporary cheap sign-up specials all the time. I doubt they’re following that rule even now.
In general, should any business be providing service less then what it costs to run the service? I don't think it's the place of the local government to subsidize broadband, cable tv, or telephone service making it available for cheaper then what it actually costs. There should be a little leeway when they first start operating and people are first starting to sign up, but after an initial period I think the service should be self supporting. | |
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| | Town gets smart. The US government is wising up to companies, its about time the do too.
I know some would think its socialism, but the ones that would claim that this socialism is bad are brain washed or have something to gain.
Government is there to protect the people we should all praise that they are trying to do that now. I can see them winning this because the Government does not trust business right now. | |
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| Reviews:
·WOW Internet and..
| Re: So where's... TWC provides service. But as you can read from TK 100/100 service at $300? How many people are going to pay for that? And how many websites are really gonna move full speed at 10/10? Not many if any at all.
Can we say Wilson would be the home of the next HQ for a Spam company? hell its dirt cheap to get 100/100 if you can afford it. | |
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| | Current Internet Providers The current lot of internet providers act like a bunch of fat, spoiled, lazy babies who don't get what they want. They whine at the first sign that they may not get to implement caps or metered billing without getting in trouble in court or losing customers.
I am not fooled by their "we are bleeding" mentality. It is the same attitude that consumed other companies like GM, Chrysler, Bear Stearns, Lehman Brothers, Wachovia, AIG, Enron, and Worldcom. I have no sympathies.
Why do execs feel that a company needs to justify policies that abuse their customers? So they can sit on their fat &*& in a golf cart all day while the minions do their bidding? | |
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| Reviews:
·WOW Internet and..
| Re: Current Internet Providers Actually the US Gov't shouldnt have given AIG any money. They're not even really based here. They only have offices as AIG is from and still a good share in China. the same as HSBC.
The Royal Bank of Scotland has banks here; Charter One and Citizens Bank. They operate at RBS as well. I don't see them asking for any money. Companies that can not stay afloat need to go back to their home country and ask for money. As for GM and Chrysler they should have left to fall like Enron and Worldcom. I didn't see them getting their handouts. | |
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KrKHeavy Artillery For The Little GuyPremium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK Reviews:
·AT&T DSL Service
| These scum are predictiable as clockwork. They refuse to compete or provide services people want, but how dare they try and do it themselves, and so it's bring out the lobbyists and the lawyers and try and destroy them by hook or by crook.
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"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." -- Benito Mussolini
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| | Local businesses can get up to one Gbps "Local businesses can get up to one Gbps. Local homes get up to 100 Mbps"
The best thing about this is the symmetrical connections. The best I could do is about 15:1 ratio of DL to UL speeds.
I can get slower DSL from Embarq (5Mb/sec max) or Suddenlink (10Mb/sec max) and that's it.
And then there's the hassle of dealing with telcos and cable companies that don't really care if they provide you with service or not. See my story here: »Re: Tried to get Suddenlink but...
It's amazing how rates go up and service goes down. I doubt where I live (10 minutes from Wilson, NC) that the speeds will increase anytime soon. So while towns like Wilson "best" the greedy telcos most of us will still be stuck with sub-par service and higher prices. | |
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| | so sad :( so what will happen? they will be forced to cable's garbage or what? | |
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| | Will it be able to pay off the investment? My friend lived in Cedar Falls Iowa for a while and he said the electric and gas rates were pretty high. He thought that they were subsidizing their municipal broadband with other revenues. A quick google search reveals that their broadband has been operating in the red most years. | |
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| | I will be cancelling I will be canceling my services at Embarq and getting all people I know to do this. I'm sorry Embarq but you have a monopoly and didn't provide and now are whining like babies when someone else decided to provide.
This project by Wilson was not a mandated pay but a vol service. No one paid into it that didn't benefit from it. I would cancel TW cable also but they have decided to service every community around me expect mine. It actually goes in a circle around my community but they refuse to bring it into my community. Embarq if you don't like loosing customers maybe you should listen and respond promptly to them.
I was the very first customer to get DSL in my community. Most of the people who signed up in my community did so because I told them so and I didn't even use the referral program when I told them to sign up. I will now go around around Stokes, NC and petition everyone I can to drop your service. This is a disgrace to what I thought was a great company.
You were not worried enough about Wilson's money when they ask for better service. Let me guess you just want to take over their fiber lines without having to pay for them.
Maybe if ya use all those billions of dollars Clinton gave you when he was president to upgrade the internet infrastructure in the USA you wouldn't have had this problem arise. But instead of using that money for what it was earmark for you prob gave exec bonuses and trips and spent million upon hundred of millions lobbing for you wouldn't have to upgrade when that money you used to lobbied was probable more and break even to the actual cost of the upgrades if you actually did them.
This is not a good time to be doing stupid stuff like this Embarq. What do you think us NC citizens will think when people like me go out and educate them on what you are doing. You know NC is an old die hard state. We don't like to be messed around with by bullies. What if we decide to get together and lobby to take over all your wires and kick your company(and others like you) to the curve. You may think that will never happen but the season is ripe with change and people are tired of being bullied by companies.
Shoot when I offered to pay to get fiber ran to the dsl box(that sat unused for years) ya laughed. My brother runs fiber all over VA and I know how cheap it is(alot cheaper than copper ex when buying bulk and factor in future proofing.) Why in the USA does it take 5-10 grand to get fiber in your home when it is not even a couple hundred at most in the cost of the fiber. And any monkey can splice fiber these days. So it not because high skilled people must do the work.
Wise up Embarq or lose your Company Charter. | |
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| | | Re: I will be cancelling You are really just guessing about what Embarque is doing . Maybe by stirring up anger you can get your brother more work . | |
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| | Wilson does more than internet.... I lived in Wilson for several years, the City of Wilson does more than provide internet as a utility. They also provide their own electrical service. They don't product any electricity, they buy it from the major regional utilities and resell it (at a mark up of course).
If Time Warner wanted to compete with City of Wilson's internet pricing structure, they could....
10M up sounds like a dream to me...it would blow my Road Runner 512K up in a heartbeat.
On a side note, I wonder what people are really getting for throughput through a wireless router connected to the Greenlight. I have a LinkSys WRT54G, and downloading something at 10M/s really seems to tax it. | |
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| | Broadband Bill Goodness gracious! The “poor” cities are under attack again!
From the city point of view, HB1252/S1004 is “underwritten by the industry to keep consumers from receiving better options in telephone, cable, and Internet service.”
Salisbury'sCity Manager, David Treme, says “they have a team of lobbyists, and we have us”.
Fact is, city officials are responding to a call from The League of Municipalities to protest this bill, and the cities are responding in their normal “knee-jerk” manner. The League is actually one of the most powerful lobbying organizations in the state; and it is subsidized by tax-payer money! So don’t believe the “poor us” story. You will find that they always lobby for anything that takes rights from the citizens and gives them to some form of government, just as in the issue of forced annexation.
In this case, The League encourages the cities to have their own “cash cow” by making the citizens dependent on another government run utility [the same thing they’re accusing this bill of doing]. They always use the argument that if the government provides the service, then all the poor people that the mean old providers aren’t taking care of will have the service. They used that same argument in some cities to go into the electric business; and they are losing money and taking the city residents to the cleaners on utility charges. They simply buy the power from the private companies and add fees for themselves. The same thing will happen if they attempt to provide their own internet access. And their alternate method is to buy access to some private provider’s infrastructure.
HB1252/S1004 is a good bill and I would encourage voters to contact your legislators in support of it.
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So where's...