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Windows 7 Phones GSM Only This Year
'Even Microsoft doesn't have unlimited resources,' says Microsoft

"We had to make some trade-offs," senior product manager Greg Sullivan tells CNET, referring to the fact that Microsoft's Windows 7 Mobile OS will only be on GSM (T-Mobile, AT&T) networks this year. That obviously leaves Verizon and Sprint with their CDMA/EVDO networks out of the loop for now, with a CDMA-ready version of Windows 7 sometime in the first half of 2011. "Even Microsoft doesn't have unlimited resources," insists Sullivan, adding that the company "had to prioritize doing fewer things, really, really well." Of course if Windows 7 isn't as good as iOS or Android, people likely won't care if they have to wait an extra few months to get phones that work on the Verizon or Sprint network.

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nfotiu
join:2009-01-25

nfotiu

Member

Well that makes no sense?

Verizon's Windows 7 Mobile OS will only be on GSM (T-Mobile, AT&T) networks this year.
pandora
Premium Member
join:2001-06-01
Outland

pandora

Premium Member

Score one for Verizon & Sprint

I see this as an advantage for Verizon & Sprint.

Noah Vail
Oh God please no.
Premium Member
join:2004-12-10
SouthAmerica

Noah Vail

Premium Member

Re: Score one for Verizon & Sprint

said by pandora:

I see this as an advantage for Verizon & Sprint.
I hear you.

Looks like I might have 6 more months of viable WinMo options from the Sprint store. Anything bought after that, would probably have to be Android based.

Anyone know if xda-dev or PPCGeeks is doing for Android what they did for WinMo?

What might be better is if the chefs are able to restore most of the consumer-friendly functionality, that's been so carefully edited out of Phone 7.

NV

killabee44
Premium Member
join:2004-05-08
Hollywood, FL

killabee44

Premium Member

Re: Score one for Verizon & Sprint

Yep.. XDA is building roms and all kinds of goodies. It's actually better than it was with WinMo in my opinion since Android is more open.
pandora
Premium Member
join:2001-06-01
Outland

pandora to Noah Vail

Premium Member

to Noah Vail
Yes, I really like the newer Android phones. My next phone will either be an Android or WebOS (if HP continues to develop it). I will never own a Win mobile phone. My spouse had an iPhone and it was nice, but the new Androids are better IMO. Only if HP continues to develop WebOS with newer hardware and improved software will Android have any significant competition for my business.

inteller
Sociopaths always win.
join:2003-12-08
Tulsa, OK

1 recommendation

inteller to nfotiu

Member

to nfotiu

Re: Well that makes no sense?

just another reason Verizon needs to get off the dead end road called CDMA ASAP. No one wants to bring market leading devices to CDMA because outside the US CDMA is worthless.

Noah Vail
Oh God please no.
Premium Member
join:2004-12-10
SouthAmerica

Noah Vail

Premium Member

Re: Well that makes no sense?

said by inteller:

just another reason Verizon needs to get off the dead end road called CDMA ASAP.
LTE is the reported next stop. I don't expect the market to be flooded with Phone7 based LTE devices anytime soon.

NV
fiberguy2
My views are my own.
Premium Member
join:2005-05-20

fiberguy2

Premium Member

Its not about "unlimited resources"...

... it's about the fact that I don't think MS has confidence in their own product.

Really, what has MS really launched and released lately anyway? MS trying to convince us that they have to watch their money and what they spend? lol That's just funnier than hell.

Personally, I've had WinMo phones.. they aren't the greatest user experience.. I find them hard to use when they should be as simple as pie.

I've seen the interface, for the most part, and it looks like an incredible joke of a phone.

I really don't think MS is wanting to "waste" the money on their new phone o/s because they themselves would like to see if the market takes hold of it.

They still are playing the "we know what you need/want" game with their layouts and features.. and when ever you do something MS, they have to do it SO FAR OUT THERE that it becomes almost difficult for the average brainless person to use, which is key. I just don't get MS's thinking on things.

By the way, what have the really pushed out in any great effort lately anyway? MS sure has been quiet for a while now.. maybe they realize the economy kinda sucks right now so "why bother putting any more crap out for people to waste money on when they don't have it... we'll just wait until they have something, but OH, we HAVE to release a phone or people will really forget we exist in the market place"... that's kinda how I feel about WinMo right now.

I really have a hard time believing or even thinking that MS has to watch their money,.. what are they trying to make us believe, that they're no different that the average "Joe plumber? and they feel our pain? .. heh.. really now.

Alcohol
Premium Member
join:2003-05-26
Climax, MI

Alcohol

Premium Member

Re: Its not about "unlimited resources"...

Have you looked at videos of wp7? You'll be surprised how good the interface face. Smoother than android and ios.

But for the life of me i can't figure out why they didn't include multi-tasking and copy/paste. That's a deal breaker for most people.
itguy05
join:2005-06-17
Carlisle, PA

itguy05

Member

Re: Its not about "unlimited resources"...

said by Alcohol:

Have you looked at videos of wp7? You'll be surprised how good the interface face. Smoother than android and ios.
Are you kidding me? The WP7 UI looks like someone took Motorola Blur from the Backflip and FUGLIED it up a little better. It is absolutely hideous and show that Microsoft has no clue. I mean who needs 5 things on the home screen with huge fonts, etc? Who decided that cutting text off menus was "cool"?

Please, I'll take my Droid any day over that garbage. I'd even go back to iOS before I went to the garbage known as WP7. I don't know how anyone who says it looks good can say that with a straight face.

And I won't even discuss the missing features.

WP7 = DOA.

Then again, they think the Windows 7 UI is good and I can think of a dozen reasons how it's horrible. From the "transparency" that makes things a mess to read to the hideous and overdone colors to the various things that make me want to throw it out the window.

Alcohol
Premium Member
join:2003-05-26
Climax, MI

Alcohol

Premium Member

Re: Its not about "unlimited resources"...

said by itguy05:

said by Alcohol:

Have you looked at videos of wp7? You'll be surprised how good the interface face. Smoother than android and ios.
I don't know how anyone who says it looks good can say that with a straight face.
Then you don't read tech sites. Everyone from engadget to gizmodo is praising wp7.

i'm not a big fan for the same reason i dont like apple products - i like home screen(s) instead of just all the apps screen but i can see why people would like this simplistic view.
itguy05
join:2005-06-17
Carlisle, PA

1 edit

itguy05

Member

Re: Its not about "unlimited resources"...

quote:
Then you don't read tech sites. Everyone from engadget to gizmodo is praising wp7.
I do and I prefer to make up my own mind as to what I like and looks good.

But Engadget seems Ho-Hum:
»www.engadget.com/2010/07 ··· preview/
quote:
What we've been presented with here doesn't exactly feel like a complete mobile operating system in many ways. Some parts of Windows Phone 7 are more like a wireframe -- an interesting design study, an example of what a next-gen phone platform could be. That's both good and bad. On one side, we're still really excited by the prospect of Metro as a viable, clean-slate approach to the mobile user experience, and there are lots of smart moves being made that could lead to greatness. On the other side, Microsoft has to turn this into a viable retail product that can hang with the fiercest competition in the history of the cellphone in just a few months' time, and there are some serious issues that need to be addressed. Frankly, it's a little scary.
So I'm Joe Consumer. I'm in the market for a smartphone. I've heard about the iPhone. I pretty much know it can do anything. I've heard about Droid. I think it can do anything. Or I can buy a Windows Phone that nobody knows anything about. And it's made by the same company that makes the crummy Windows OS I use.

Which one am I going to go with?
a) iPhone because I know it will work and has a good reputation
b) Android because I think it will work great "Droid Does"
c) Windows Phone which I know nothing about and is from a company that I probably don't like?

I'd think most customers would do A or B, cause if they wanted C they could slip right into one of the Quasi-Smartphones.

Alcohol
Premium Member
join:2003-05-26
Climax, MI

Alcohol

Premium Member

Re: Its not about "unlimited resources"...

Obviously you aren't going to know much about a product not released to the public yet.

When did i say you should go stand in line and buy a product without doing your research? That's reserved for the apple fan boys.
fiberguy2
My views are my own.
Premium Member
join:2005-05-20

1 recommendation

fiberguy2

Premium Member

Re: Its not about "unlimited resources"...

Dude, really? You're going to take this conversation down the same old boring and tired road as always and try to throw in a "fan boy" snide comment?? Really?? (Personally, I think those that have to resort to using the "fan boy" comment HAVE to be 21 or younger because that's generally the generation that pulls that stunt)

He said it very well, EVERYTHING, in his statement. He not only said it well, it made perfect sense.

Many people took apple because the customer base was already pleased with what they have on their computers. Yes, apple computer users always flocked to the apple phone. Apple has a reputation among it's user base as easy, simple, and "it just works" as many of the apple users will say. Many apple people are not brainless drones as many people make them out to be. To be honest, if you look at most apple users, they do all have a quality about themselves in that they do tend to be more creative, a little more less that "go with the flow" as an attitude, and while many people like to call them stupid, most are anything but. I'd like you to call my attorney any of those names people call apple fans because the 6'5", dirt bike riding, 4-wheel driving, mountain climbing, well educated attorney that has made millions for himself before the age of 35 defending the rights of consumers would most likely have something to say to you about that.

Most people that buy apple products didn't just walk into the line to buy something they knew nothing about.. while they may have yet to put their hands on something, they certainly saw enough about the product AND based much of their decision on what they already have from apple.

Now, while you're bashing the apple user base, what do you have to say about the android users who, with even less information, and just the "promise that.." the android would be the "iphone killer" of the year.. what do you have to say about those people.. are they as mindless as the iPhone user? They have NOTHING to base the android off of other than marketing hype, and we all know how popular that is around here, right?

Next, we have Windows based cell phones. We also HAVE something to base the possible experience off of, and MS is certainly not short of or shy of having reasons to be doubtful of anything they release. For the record, my Q9C that I had for 2 years only was in my possession for 2 years because of the incredible battery life that MOTOROLA gave me. I LOVED my 9 hours of talk time, but that really had very little to do with Windows. In fact, it was one of the hardest phones to interface, for me, with my Windows based desktop. Anytime I would plug it in to the sync center, it was a constant battle to get the computer to recognize it, well.. that is except the time I plugged it into my laptop to charge up when I was 1,200 miles from home and it then decided to not only connect up with the laptop, but sync and left me with a phone void of any contacts. (way to go, MS - 3 hours later, an import of my contact via PcAnywhere, and some file conversions, I recovered most of my data. I'm sure the "average user" would have been able to navigate their way through a recovery, right?)

Now, there ARE some mac users that will probably like the WinMo phone, albeit chances are slim at best.. but I wonder how well the WinMo phones will work on the Mac platform? .. will it work as well as the iPhone does on the PC? To this day, not a single issue with syncing or backing up my iPhone on my PC using iTunes... works flawlessly. And, hows that all inclusive syncing app working for the android based phones? (I always loved having to turn on and off my mass storage option in my Hero anytime I wanted to sync via the USB cable to my PC)

Apple people don't just "stand in line" to buy a product they didn't research.. before you go making statements like that, how about putting some proof in to that.. until you can do so, you have NOTHING to say but gibberish. All you see are people in lines to get the next product on launch day.. there is NOTHING that you can substantiate that says those people have no idea what it is they are buying, do you? But, I bet it sounds good to say as you sit there and tear people down to make yourself feel better.

But you are right, the AVERAGE person is not going to know much about a product yet released to the public yet. But, Microsoft has a reputation that precedes them that gives the public a pretty good idea of what they're in for.. for the record, I'll take apple's proprietary "crap" over that of MS anyday as the apple "crap" actually works.

Alcohol
Premium Member
join:2003-05-26
Climax, MI

Alcohol

Premium Member

Re: Its not about "unlimited resources"...

said by fiberguy2:

Now, while you're bashing the apple user base, what do you have to say about the android users who, with even less information, and just the "promise that.." the android would be the "iphone killer" of the year.. what do you have to say about those people.. are they as mindless as the iPhone user? They have NOTHING to base the android off of other than marketing hype, and we all know how popular that is around here, right?
Yes, they're fan boys too.

It's only the insecure that believe the term fan boy only applies to apple customers.

I'm not a big fan of buying anything without proper research, let it be google, apple, or toyota. And people who stand in line to buy the product on launch day are fan boys because they are buying it for the hype not because of the research they've done themselves.

And i wasn't bashing apple users, it was a joke, which obviously went over your head.

odreian615
join:2006-01-18
Chicago, IL

odreian615 to itguy05

Member

to itguy05
I love how you posted a video from July.
/Someone need to check Engadget more often
»pocketnow.com/news/windows-phone
itguy05
join:2005-06-17
Carlisle, PA

itguy05

Member

Re: Its not about "unlimited resources"...

said by odreian615:

I love how you posted a video from July.
/Someone need to check Engadget more often
Then Tell Engasdget to update their site. I went to www.engadget.com and clicked the link at the top of the page called "Windows Phone 7".
fiberguy2
My views are my own.
Premium Member
join:2005-05-20

fiberguy2 to Alcohol

Premium Member

to Alcohol
I'm with itguy05 on this one.. I like to make up my own mind. Just because a bunch of paid people at Gizmodo and engadget like it doesn't mean I'm going to. Hell, if I went by that kind of mentality, I'd love every movie that wins at the Academy Awards each year too!! .. I usually find myself not liking a 95% of the movies that win awards.

When I see a review, all I want to know, really, are the specs of the phone. Personal opinions in reviews are just that, personal opinions, and they mean ABSOLUTELY squat to me. I watched the review on one of the new android phones and the techie spend almost 20% of his time on the batter cover and how "cool it was' and "how well designed it was"... great, a feature I'll spend almost no time touching as *I* very rarely ever open the battery doors on phones.

Some people like the notification pull down on Android OS, I don't.. so I guess that reviewer who praises that as a "good thing" and I don't see eye to eye..

Just because someone praises something and talks a good story about how great it is doesn't mean that everyone else is going to like it or that it's going to be a hit. That would somehow make those people elites and that we should follow what they say.

Reviewers, these days, need to simply go over the features, talk about capabilities and touch on the features or capabilities that are possibly missing (such as cut and paste, lack of tether, lack of a photo or flash and stuff like that) and leave PERSONAL OPINIONS out of reviews. For this reason, alone, I could care less about most reviews today. I'd take their opinions just about as much as I'd want them to come in my home and pick the colors to paint on my walls.. *I* am the one that has to be happy with the phone *I* decide to go with, not them. Right?

You said it best, and the same thing I just got done saying, when you said "I'm not a big fan for the same reason I don't like apple products - I like home screens instead of just all the apps screen.." etc. Many of us don't care about home screens.. It just amazes me how it seems people today don't know what they want until someone else tells that that they need it.

Fluker
join:2005-04-07
West Lafayette, IN

Fluker to Alcohol

Member

to Alcohol
Engadget gave the Kin a mixed review.

That had the essence of "nice hardware but the OS is lacking"
bfreese
join:2003-08-18
Wadsworth, IL

bfreese to itguy05

Member

to itguy05
No - It looks like a Zune HD... which IMO is a pretty good interface...
cmaenginsb1
Premium Member
join:2001-03-19
Palmdale, CA

cmaenginsb1

Premium Member

Re: Its not about "unlimited resources"...

said by bfreese:

No - It looks like a Zune HD... which IMO is a pretty good interface...
It's based on the Zune HD interface so it should look like it.

en102
Canadian, eh?
join:2001-01-26
Valencia, CA

en102

Member

Re: Its not about "unlimited resources"...

I'm more worried about 'the back end' than I am about the GUI.

As a WinMo user, I have to 'reboot' my phone quite often as features 'hang' (LCS/Active Sync). Having a nice gui is OK, but without the back end being reliable (typical MS issues), its useless.
Apple iOS / Google Android / Palm WebOS are all somewhat based on Linux/Unix which is more of a 'keep it simple stupid' philosophy, with a small core apps layered ontop, vs. MS style of a huge core with registry hive (standard Windows), loading everything into a memory resident database (registry), caching everything in sight.
fiberguy2
My views are my own.
Premium Member
join:2005-05-20

fiberguy2 to Alcohol

Premium Member

to Alcohol
said by Alcohol:

Have you looked at videos of wp7? You'll be surprised how good the interface face. Smoother than android and ios.

But for the life of me i can't figure out why they didn't include multi-tasking and copy/paste. That's a deal breaker for most people.
Yea, I saw the interface.. I saw it a long time ago when I got it in my partner kit from MS.. wasn't impressed then and still not impressed now.

Much of it looks way to "kid like" as usual, MS is forcing home screens on people that most have gotten away from. I also REALLY love the blue squares..

Yea, PARTS of the interface look cool,. but still, as usual, MS has missed the train, in my opinion, when it comes to designing the UI.
brianiscool
join:2000-08-16
Tampa, FL

brianiscool

Member

darn

I just bought my HTC HD2 two months ago.

Alcohol
Premium Member
join:2003-05-26
Climax, MI

Alcohol

Premium Member

Re: darn

said by brianiscool:

I just bought my HTC HD2 two months ago.
No official upgrade for that because it doesn't have a dedicated search key. That's the only thing stopping microsoft from upgrading that
brianiscool
join:2000-08-16
Tampa, FL

brianiscool

Member

Re: darn

The Window Mobile 6.5 is very unstable. I use the Core Cell Evo.

Alcohol
Premium Member
join:2003-05-26
Climax, MI

Alcohol

Premium Member

Re: darn

said by brianiscool:

The Window Mobile 6.5 is very unstable. I use the Core Cell Evo.
Run android on it then.
brianiscool
join:2000-08-16
Tampa, FL

brianiscool

Member

Re: darn

I heard it takes 30 minutes to load off the microsd card.

Alcohol
Premium Member
join:2003-05-26
Climax, MI

Alcohol

Premium Member

Re: darn

said by brianiscool:

I heard it takes 30 minutes to load off the microsd card.
It doesn't.

Noah Vail
Oh God please no.
Premium Member
join:2004-12-10
SouthAmerica

Noah Vail

Premium Member

Re: darn

said by Alcohol:
said by brianiscool:

I heard it takes 30 minutes to load off the microsd card.
It doesn't.
Confirmed. Every variant I ran on my TP took about the same amount of time to boot as the native OS.

NV
Kommie2 (banned)
join:2003-05-13
united state

Kommie2 (banned)

Member

Its CDMA

Why Market to CDMA which is mostly US only, when you can market to the world with GSM ?

••••••••••••••
gaforces (banned)
United We Stand, Divided We Fall
join:2002-04-07
Santa Cruz, CA

4 edits

gaforces (banned)

Member

New phone

Click for full size
I was planning on upgrading my phone soon, now I will have fewer choices. Now it's all about sour grapes that I dont really like what Ive seen of winmo7 with the flat 2d blockhead graphics with tweeter, faceplant, and other social services I am not really interested in.
I was however very interested in the gaming capabilitys for winmo7.

I dont believe for a second that MS didn't have resources to use different radios with their new mobile OS. IMO that announcement is full of BS.
2nd quarter 2011 is not a few months to wait either.
It's no wonder now why so many hardware vendors are embracing android instead of winmo7.
Att had the exclusive to iphone now they are getting exclusive for the release of winmo7.

•••

Anonymous88
Premium Member
join:2004-06-01
IA

Anonymous88

Premium Member

Who cares?

Are there any people out there still interested in this OS?

Alcohol
Premium Member
join:2003-05-26
Climax, MI

Alcohol

Premium Member

Re: Who cares?

said by Anonymous88:

Are there any people out there still interested in this OS?
Plenty. It's supposed to revolutionize gaming on a smart phone with xbox live arcade games.
cw30000
join:2008-07-11

cw30000

Member

No beta phone for CDMA

Great. No beta phone for CDMA. Sick and tire of trying 1 beta after another WM.
pabster
join:2001-12-09
Waterloo, IA

pabster

Member

The world runs on GSM. What's the shock here?

Maybe here in the states we get a bit near-sighted about this stuff. Fact is 95% of the world runs on GSM. CDMA is spotty, far and few between. There are only a few countries with robust CDMA networks.

Windows Phone 7 actually looks promising. More competition is always good for the consumer. I think we're in for a 3-horse race in 2011 between Android, iOS, and Windows Phone 7. It's gonna be exciting!
jfmezei
Premium Member
join:2007-01-03
Pointe-Claire, QC

1 recommendation

jfmezei

Premium Member

Network quality != Network protocol

There are a lot of americans who claim CDMA is better than GSM.

At 2G, GSM had better codecs than CDMA, and its tdma air interface garanteed your voice got through. But tdma is less efficient than cdma for network operators (because it garantees your time slots once a call is made, even if you are not talking)

For 3g, GSM adopted a cdma air interface, but is superior to CDMA because it has greater bandwidth per shared channel.

The experience in the USA is more related to the mess that is the network known this week as AT&T Wireless. And the smaller footprint and lack of 850 for T-Mobile.

Proponents of CDMA should wake up and smell the coffee. CDMA has no 4g roadmap. Nokia stopped a long time ago. Apple hasn't done CDMA. The latest Blackberry is GSM only. And now Microsoft will be GSM only.

And once Verizon lights up its LTE network, you will find even less motivation to create totally new CDMA handsets.

HTC, Samsung, LG and Moto will be producing new derivatives of existing CDMA handsets but I don't think you will see many totally new products for CDMA.
munky99999
Munky
join:2004-04-10
canada

munky99999

Member

unlimited resources

Microsoft has enough resources to get behind anything they see profitable; relative to what they do now.

That is to say.. microsoft cant break into the tobacco industry. It sure could try to break into anything techbased.

It doesnt want to get into phones for 2 reasons.

1. It cant compete. Iphone, blackberry, droid... they have no chance.
2. Dealing with carriers is insane.

Anonymous21
@bellsouth.net

Anonymous21

Anon

Re: unlimited resources

All these sites making it likes it's a big fking deal. The Iphone (GSM Only) Android Launch (T-Mobile G1) Whats that GSM. Come on, find something else to complain about. This is not a deal breaker. People will always need something to complain about with Microsoft. Again Find something that you can actually backup. Windows Phone 7 (To Little To Late). Are you serious. There is no phone on the market that compares to Windows Phone 7, When all the dust is settled, I will gladly say I told you so. Try not to wine about complaints when the devices are actually released next month. Consumer Reports still will not recommend the Iphone, anyone care know. This bias is ridicoulous. Try going back to real journalism.

Trinijoy
Premium Member
join:2005-09-12
Brick, NJ

Trinijoy

Premium Member

pointless

So pointless, GSM is worse then dial up.

DaveDude
No Fear
join:1999-09-01
New Jersey

DaveDude

Member

Re: pointless

They mean Gsm family, meaning 3g umts. ATT wouldn't bother carrying a phone that wasnt GSM-umts.
qworster
join:2001-11-25
Bryn Mawr, PA

4 edits

qworster

Member

This doesn't make sense!

What's the hard on that companies have with the GSM suppliers? Together they don't equal the number of customers that Verizon has-and when you add in Sprint the total buries AT&T and T-Mobile in the dust! Besides, the two GSM networks already have iPhone and Android. Seems to me that if Microsoft had half a brain, they'd go where the CUSTOMERS were!
jfmezei
Premium Member
join:2007-01-03
Pointe-Claire, QC

jfmezei

Premium Member

Re: This doesn't make sense!

qwoster, you need to put on some "Christopher Columbus" glasses and look beyond your shores.

In India, they sign up over a million new GSM customers PER MONTH. The USA may, on average, sell higher priced phones, but the sheer number of GSM phones around the world makes Qualcomm's CDMA really really small.