World's Ten Largest IPTV ProvidersU.S. again fails to make the list, though AT&T is trying.... ( old news - 12:07PM Monday Jan 14 2008) tags: competition · business · bandwidth · stats · world · TVIPLight Reading lists the world's top ten largest IPTV deployments, and no U.S. companies make the list. AT&T's U-Verse, which hasn't yet passed the tenth-ranked provider at 170,000, should probably make the list shortly -- given they had 126,000 subscribers at the end of the third quarter. Verizon FiOS is not listed because technically, the service is a fiber/coaxial hybrid, though Verizon will likely eventually migrate to all IP. Seven European countries make the top ten. Three of the top ten IPTV providers are French. The list's top provider, Iliad, offers French consumers a DSL/IPTV/VoIP triple play bundle for $45 a month, and will soon start offering consumers fiber lines for the same price as existing DSL offerings. A recent study stated that, on average, a U.S. family of four will pay $140 per month for the triple play, compared to $80 in Germany, $54 in France, and $50 in the UK. Much of France's success (from the consumer point of view) is attributed to local loop unbundling, an idea they picked up from us shortly before we abandoned the idea.
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pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
 ·Comcast
| Cue the "USA Sucks" Whining! quote:
U.S. again fails to make the list, though AT&T is trying....
Off we go!
BTW - We've heard a lot of not-so-good things about AT&T's IPTV service, specifically regarding limitations on HDTV. I don't know if they have resolved these now, but if they haven't, would we really want to embrace this technology?
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Only SHATNER is Kirk. | |
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JasonD
@comcast.net | Re: Cue the "USA Sucks" Whining! I'll cue the "they suck" whining instead. I'll keep my 'overpriced' 8Mbps speeds, PSTN, and 120 non-IPTV channels, and they can keep their high taxes, gov't provided health 'care', and bandwidth crunch susceptible IPTV. | |
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KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK | Re: Cue the "USA Sucks" Whining! Cue the apologists shilling.... Why should people in the USA get crappy, 1/3rd the service, 3 times the price, Non-options?
Whining? Hardly. Legitimate issue? I think so... | |
| | | | openbox9
join:2004-01-26
Navarre, FL
·Mediacom
| Re: Cue the "USA Sucks" Whining! How did you determine 1/3 the service and 3 times the price? Last time I checked, a majority of the population in the US have paid TV service. The mechanism of providing paid TV service is really irrelevant as long as you are willing to pay, and receive, the content. Personally, I'm happy with the tried and true RF over coax and satellite TV. | |
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KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK
·Cox HSI
 ·AT&T Southwest
| Re: Cue the "USA Sucks" Whining! From comments like "offers French consumers a DSL/IPTV/VoIP triple play bundle for $45 a month". That's about 1/3rd the price here.
I bargin shopped and got the best deal I could get (and I'm on some introductory pricing, it goes up later) and I'm paying $125 for TV, Phone, Broadband. And not the top end options either. So $45 sounds damn good to me.
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"Regulatory capitalism is when companies invest in lawyers, lobbyists, and politicians, instead of plant, people, and customer service." - former FCC Chairman William Kennard (A real FCC Chairman, unlike the current Corporate Spokesperson in the job!) | |
| | | | | | openbox9
join:2004-01-26
Navarre, FL
·Mediacom
| Re: Cue the "USA Sucks" Whining! It's all relative. Personally, I'm more than happy to make the money I make, pay the taxes that I pay, have the cost of living that I have, and pay the money that I do for the services that I get rather than live in France and all of the things that are inherent with doing so. I've lived in Europe before and have a very good friend who was born and raised in France (who's chosen to be a US citizen over a French citizen) and I'll choose the US every time. Don't get me wrong, there are a lot of awesome countries with incredible history, they just can't compete with quality of life and cost of living, IMO. | |
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KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK | Re: Cue the "USA Sucks" Whining! Amazing how these threads go. It's not about having to live like the French to get the deal. It's just an example of what we COULD have here, if we didn't allow it to be bolluxed up so badly. | |
| | | | | | | | openbox9
join:2004-01-26
Navarre, FL
·Mediacom
| Re: Cue the "USA Sucks" Whining! But it is about having to live like the French, because you don't get to have your cake and eat it too. I would love to have everything that I have now and pay a 1/3 of the cost for my televion, ISP, and voice, but that's not the world we live in. If somebody comes up with a plan to make that a reality, then I'm all for it. | |
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KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK
·Cox HSI
·AT&T Southwest
edit:
January 15th, @09:45PM
| Re: Cue the "USA Sucks" Whining! The idea is competition. The French encouraged and the Government backed up local loop unbundling which opened the door for competition. That competition was originally riding the existing Telco lines, but as they got their footing, they began building out their own networks and fiber and now you have the result --- modern, competing telecommunications services resulting in more options and lower prices.
WE were OH so close here.... We started down that path... and providers were starting to buildout their own networks... but our Government backed off protecting the fledglings from the ravages of the ILEC's and gave up on local loop unbundling-- that, combined with the dot com crash, and boom all the startups (A few barely hanging on, IE Covad) went under, and we reap the rewards today-- only a few choices, no options, and high prices.
It's sad. With just a little more leadership from the Administration and the FCC we'd be right where the French are now-- hell, we'd be better off, IMHO because we started first and because we have many content producers here.
Oh so close... but we dropped the ball.
We could have it, down the road, but it requires action and leadership now.... and it would require forcing the existing players, at least for a time, to allow access to their networks... and you know they'd fight that every step of the way... but if the Government or FCC held firm, down the road, say 10 years, the payoff would be clear--- competition. Choices. State of the art networks. Sadly, I think it's very unlikely to happen... no matter which party is in control. | |
| | BosstonesOwn
join:2002-12-15
Everett, MA
clubs:
·Comcast Formerly ..
| I agree with you , this is one time I don't think we should see the comments about how we fall behind , for once this is another technology that is really just not ready for prime time.
The content providers control in the us will destroy the delivery systems soon.
Thank god for toshiba dropping hd player costs yet again , to really hit the point home that the content providers chose the wrong format and the people should be proving what format we want. Not the content providers telling us what we want.
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"It's always funny until someone gets hurt......and then it's absolutely friggin' hysterical!" | |
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pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
·Comcast
| Re: Cue the "USA Sucks" Whining! Personally, I don't see what additional benefit one gets using IPTV versus another technology. If traditional cable TV or satellite TV delivers the same channels and same picture and sound quality, then what is the point of IPTV?
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Only SHATNER is Kirk. | |
| | | | 
wifi4milez
In Need Of Garbage Pail Kids 1st Series
join:2004-08-07
New York, NY
 ·Sprint Mobile Broa..
| Re: Cue the "USA Sucks" Whining! said by pnh102  :Personally, I don't see what additional benefit one gets using IPTV versus another technology. If traditional cable TV or satellite TV delivers the same channels and same picture and sound quality, then what is the point of IPTV? It gives people on this site one more thing to bitch about. No really, thats it!
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с новым годом | |
| | | | BosstonesOwn
join:2002-12-15
Everett, MA
clubs:
·Comcast Formerly ..
| said by pnh102 :Personally, I don't see what additional benefit one gets using IPTV versus another technology. If traditional cable TV or satellite TV delivers the same channels and same picture and sound quality, then what is the point of IPTV? Control ! Nothing more nothing less.
The content providers load up the DRM so no one who isn't paying can see it. They despise the idea of free content , like ota tv. Even on an ip based system they fear some one seeing something they don't pay for. And iptv gives them more assurance.
I'd have to find the article but there are plenty from the blu-ray CES expo that basically asked the content providers why they chose blu-ray and what they see in the future , they want full control over the media and the transport so you can't see something without paying. It relates to IPTV because it was one of the stumbling block MS had in the introduction of their iptv set up.
Thankfully companies like Sun avoided it all together by just providing the equipment, not the protection schemes.
These companies providing iptv want a piece of the content pie. Which I feel is disgusting , provide me a bigger pipe to my world , which is the web , I will find my own content.
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"It's always funny until someone gets hurt......and then it's absolutely friggin' hysterical!" | |
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pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
·Comcast
| Re: Cue the "USA Sucks" Whining! said by BosstonesOwn :Control ! Nothing more nothing less. While I agree with your sentiment about DRM, this is not something that cannot already be done with existing cable TV or satellite TV systems. IPTV is just another way of doing the same thing. It does not seem to be better or worse than what we have here now.
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Only SHATNER is Kirk. | |
| | | | | | BosstonesOwn
join:2002-12-15
Everett, MA
clubs:
·Comcast Formerly ..
| Re: Cue the "USA Sucks" Whining! iptv is very inefficient. Multicasting is so much less difficult. And so much more sensible. Not to mention cheaper.
It's actually worse , it takes more resources to accomplish the same thing, which is a waste in general.
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"It's always funny until someone gets hurt......and then it's absolutely friggin' hysterical!" | |
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Phattieg
join:2001-04-29
Jacksonville, FL
| Re: Cue the "USA Sucks" Whining! said by BosstonesOwn :iptv is very inefficient. Multicasting is so much less difficult. And so much more sensible. Not to mention cheaper. It's actually worse , it takes more resources to accomplish the same thing, which is a waste in general. How do you figure? IPTV is capable of holding unused channels at the edge router. That results in less information to your TV. You have to think, there is less equipment involved in the end. Instead of occupying all that space multicasting hundreds of channels, you only stream the ones you use. So I am not understanding how IPTV is less efficent, you aren't wasting space that could be used for something else like, oh, faster internet... Now TELCO IPTV, if done with VDSL is too much equipment, but through cable, it's a viable option with the HD revolution, and the speed increases being done to internet connections. You never know, cable could bring in IPTV here and make a new cable modem standard allowing a little more competition with fiber service. I know there is things that can be done to give fiber more room too, but if you are talking about efficiency, then you can't beat IPTV... But oh well.
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SIPPhone/Gizmo # 17476200648 / PIMPNET Chatline / Ran by Asterisk & Slackware 10.1. | |
| | | | | | | | BosstonesOwn
join:2002-12-15
Everett, MA
clubs:
·Comcast Formerly ..
| Re: Cue the "USA Sucks" Whining! You don't understand IPTV enough to know the differences. I liked playing with Sun's video delivery system while I was there , and it used IPtv , not multicasting. Which is why not many people bought it yet. Well accept the folks who purchased it to be used to store the content they needed to stream.
Multicasting the channel on ip is what cable co's want to use. Holding it at the edge is a buzz statement to try and solve a problem. This is a half assed attempt.
Iptv can only be streamed to 1 device at a time. If you have channel 100 streaming it takes another stream to hit me doubling the bandwidth used at the point of aggregation to the user. If we are on the same node we wasted a stream thus we wasted bandwidth that could be used by yet another victim of iptv. Multicasting avoids this. it lets the 2nd user pick up the stream as long as it's being broadcast already. IPtv as it stand does not allow this. It's actually considered a big security issue.
Cable multicasting is nothing new. What is new is they had the sense to see that they have to try and hold back unused channels. However just ask those folks in the beta regions. They are getting black screens with some cryptic messages on them. They did not plan on so many people wanting different channels.
Right now it's not ready for prime time. 1 way communications benefit from multicasting , it's just the way it is for now.
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"It's always funny until someone gets hurt......and then it's absolutely friggin' hysterical!" | |
| | | | public
join:2002-01-19
Santa Clara, CA
·DSL EXTREME
| said by pnh102 :Personally, I don't see what additional benefit one gets using IPTV versus another technology. If traditional cable TV or satellite TV delivers the same channels and same picture and sound quality, then what is the point of IPTV? exactly. Fox Noise is the only channel needed.
Any on demand niche research report type programs are completely unnecessary. | |
| | | | ackman
join:2000-10-04
Acworth, GA
·AT&T Southeast
| said by pnh102 :Personally, I don't see what additional benefit one gets using IPTV versus another technology. If traditional cable TV or satellite TV delivers the same channels and same picture and sound quality, then what is the point of IPTV? It's called competition, dimwit. | |
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pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
·Comcast
| Re: Cue the "USA Sucks" Whining! said by ackman :It's called competition, dimwit. Learn to read, please. Do you think the average customer cares how his/her TV service is delivered?
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Only SHATNER is Kirk. | |
| 
ztmike
Premium
join:2001-08-02
·Comcast
·AT&T Midwest
edit:
January 14th, @12:06PM
| atat iptv Maybe because Atat is not FTTH that their IPTV offering sucks..You can only cram so much data on a voice line..and then you have distance limitations..
I mean look at what their offering their customers now for their u verse service..6/1 internet..lol come on now..is this is the future of America? lol
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"I am the worst president in U.S history, I'm either stupid or dumb most of the time, but people still believe me." George W. Bush | |
| | bogey780
join:2004-03-19
Covington, LA | Re: atat iptv Very little of the problems people are having with U-verse seem to stem from lack of bandwidth to the house. The problems seem to be indemic to an IP based system. | |
| | | 
djrobx
join:2000-05-31
Valencia, CA
 ·AT&T U-Verse
·RoadRunner Cable
 ·Time Warner VOIP
·DSL EXTREME
edit:
January 14th, @11:58AM
| Re: atat iptv No, some of the biggest complaints are all related to an insufficient amount of bandwidth. Lack of multiple HD streams to the home (realistically, the service should have been designed to deliver 4 HD streams), poor quality HD (overcompressed), and unimpressive broadband speeds all point back to the fact that the system was architected to deliver 25mbps to the home.
Had they designed the system to bring the nodes closer to homes to get the full 100mbps out of VDSL, the system would have a lot more room to grow.
As a techie geek, I've had at least a dozen people ask me about U-Verse. Most were excited about it at first, but they all opted not to bother when I told them they couldn't record two HD shows at once. The lack of bandwidth IS a big issue, and in my opinion, frustratingly shortsighted on the part of AT&T. U-verse is available here and I really wanted it to be something great, and am disapppointed that it's not. | |
| | | | | | | | | BosstonesOwn
join:2002-12-15
Everett, MA
clubs:
·Comcast Formerly ..
| Re: atat iptv It's called being short sighted. You see the nose in front of your face ? That is how investors are these days. Can't see the forest for the trees so to speak.
I like to see these guys saying the economy is costing them $$$ , no their lack of seeing the future is , don't try and make so much money per sub , give them a reason to switch to your service by offering a quality service at an acceptable rate. Which these guys just don't seem to want to offer.
We see a little trouble in the VZ camp where customers are scaling back on tv costs. But not cutting them all together like at&t is experiencing. That tells me consumers think the prices are high. Perhaps it's now with this new recession looming that the content providers will realize the costs are to high and we need price cuts to stay in business.
No wait the content providers are mostly egotistical asses out to get rich off other peoples work. So ignore that part.
I for one welcome our new content providing overlords. "Yes master I shall pay all my extra money for your blu-ray disc ! I don't need to feed my kids as well as be entertained." Oh well I guess more people will have to be without some things they want now , which may teach some of the new generation some humility.
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"It's always funny until someone gets hurt......and then it's absolutely friggin' hysterical!" | |
| | | | | | | | | bogey780
join:2004-03-19
Covington, LA | Still, those are feature issues. The actual connection from the modem to the network seems to be holding up quite well with VDSL. It's just they're not using VDSL to its full potential. | |
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KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK
·Cox HSI
·AT&T Southwest
| said by bogey780 :Very little of the problems people are having with U-verse seem to stem from lack of bandwidth to the house. The problems seem to be indemic to an IP based system. Actually, almost all the problems seem to relate to not enough bandwidth. And if something interferes, cutting bandwidth further, watch out.
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"Regulatory capitalism is when companies invest in lawyers, lobbyists, and politicians, instead of plant, people, and customer service." - former FCC Chairman William Kennard (A real FCC Chairman, unlike the current Corporate Spokesperson in the job!) | |
| | 
gaforces
United We Stand, Divided We Fall
join:2002-04-07
Santa Cruz, CA
·Cruzio Internet
| They should scrap the VDSL and rent some tech's from their sister Verizon to help them deploy the fiber.
Area's with ATt will be backwaters/hicksville in 5 years, with the rest of the fiber users smiling at 100mbs with 300 HD channels.
Company's will invest in the fiber area's and leave ATt area's to rot. | |
| tmc8080
join:2004-04-24
Floral Park, NY
| Anyone know? If anyone knows, how many of those cities have local & state municipalities taxing and/or surcharging a franchise fee or build rights of way? Would be interesting to see the relation between deployment and others with their hands out for access to customers. | |
| | ejrobinson
Premium
join:2003-05-16
Miami Beach, FL
·magicjack.com
| Re: Anyone know? Prices in europe for internet, including iptv, are inclusive of all taxes, especially the value added tax, by the way. That said, taxes overall are higher, but so are social services, including medical care, free schooling through university level, retirement that can't be revoked, nurseries for very young children so both parents can work, etc. Excellent high speed train service that runs at 300 km/hour (185 mi./hour) to be increased to 360 km/hour in 2 years (210 mi./hour). What we have ain't perfect, but life isn't so bad.
-er | |
| 
powerhog
Stinkin' up the joint
Premium
join:2000-12-14
Talala, OK | Countries or companies? quote:
Seven European countries make the top ten -- three of them in France.
There are multiple countries within France?  | |
| 
kyler13
Is your fiber grounded?
join:2006-12-12
Arnold, MD
·ViaTalk
·Verizon FIOS
| Surprise, surprise quote:
Much of France's success (from the consumer point of view) is attributed to local loop unbundling, an idea they picked up from us shortly before we abandoned the idea.
Is there any idea the French haven't stolen from someone else? Industrial espionage is a key part of their international policy. | |
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CylonRed
Premium,MVM
join:2000-07-06
Bloom County | Re: Surprise, surprise and it is the policy of a lot of US companies and companies in general - so what? | |
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CCNnorthcali
join:2004-03-07
Tempe, AZ
clubs: | Wow, cheap jab at France. If it's working, then what's the problem? | |
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morbo
Complete Your Transaction
join:2002-01-22
00000
clubs: | Re: Surprise, surprise better ridicule their working iptv system then to look at our own iptv disasters... | |
| | | | ejrobinson
Premium
join:2003-05-16
Miami Beach, FL | Industrial espionage is done everywhere, including the usa. It isn't any more prevalent in france than elsewhere.
-er | |
| karlmarx
join:2006-09-18
Nashua, NH
·Fairpoint Communic..
| The reason the rest of the world is better Is stated quite clearly in the article. Local Loop Unbundling. That's the bottom line. Ma Bell used to be a monopoly, controlling everything from the dial tone to the backbone. What the rest of the world has discovered, is that's ok, AS LONG AS THEY ONLY PROVIDE THE LINE. Lets let the tri-opoly we now have continue to sell LINES. Let Verizon, AT&T and Qworst all sell the LINE to the home. Let's let OTHERS sell the services. We need to break up the stranglehold the megacorps have on the communications system. Verizon can STILL make money by running fiber. Hell, let's give them tax breaks to run the fiber. But DON'T LET VERIZON sell the services.
What does that do? That provides an INFRASTRUCTURE, just like the power grid. What you do with it is up to the end user, to purchase a dial tone, IPTV, or Internet services from ANY company that wants to sell it.
The problem is simply that the lobbyist bought the politicians, telling them the LIE that everything would be cheaper and faster. That's not what's happening.
Let verizon, and comcast, and all the others SELL THE LINES. Let OTHERS sell the services. If you want ABC, sign up for ABC. Hell, if an ABC station in boston will sell you the channel for $1.00/month, and the one in Chigaco wants $20.00/month, let the customer in chicago purchase the signal from boston. If ISP #1 wants to charge you $80.00/month for 8mb/1mb, and ISP #2 only charges you $15.00/month for 20mb/20mb, guess which business model will get all the customers.
Lets TAKE BACK the infrastructure we paid for. If it costs verizon $500.00 to 'fiber' a house, then let verizon charge $10.00/month for the line to the house. A 4 year return on investment is VERY good at that rate. Sure, Verizon will get a lot smaller, and make a lot less money, but all the CUSTOMERS will win, and that's what the FCC should be pursuing, you know, where the work 'to serve the common good' part of their charter (actually the 2nd line).
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Relgion and Politics don't mix! I have firsthand knowledge of what happens when ANY religion mixes with ANY politics. | |
| | jester121
join:2003-08-09
Lake Zurich, IL | Re: The reason the rest of the world is better karl, why not come right out and say what you really want -- let's have the government take over all of it! | |
| 
ninjatutle
join:2006-01-02
San Ramon, CA | Sling Box should be on the list. They are an IPTV provider, sorta  | |
| |
mmss
@rr.com | Re: Sling Box I so love my sling box! Best $40 I've spent in a while. | |
| neufuse
join:2006-12-06
Indiana, PA
·Comcast
·Verizon Online DSL
| SDV... I'd rather have switched digital video over IPTV since technically with 5 TV's I'd need 5 connections to use them... thats a lot of bandwidth with IPTV... SDV all I need is a box or SDV cable card (yes I know they are not out yet)... and no wasted internet bandwidth all over one shared line | |
| 
DaneJasper
Sonic.Net
Premium,VIP
join:2001-08-20
Santa Rosa, CA
clubs:
| Local loop unbundling The point made about local loop unbundling is really an important one.
In countries where the incumbent has a monopoly, deployment is behind countries where they followed the competitive model. You'd think America would recognize that competition yields better products and prices for consumers.
Too bad the FCC took it all away over the last few years.
-Dane | |
| | 
brooklynman4
join:2004-09-07
Brooklyn, NY | There managed much better Thats the reason why those companies are managed much better and they give there customers what they want. | |
| | openbox9
join:2004-01-26
Navarre, FL
·Mediacom
| Re: Local loop unbundling The real question is how do you get to a common infrastructure without costing taxpayers more money than we're already chiseling out of our pockets? A lot of countries with this "wonderful shared infrastructure" have their citizens paying hefty taxes to foot the bill. A lot of people don't enjoy throwing more of their hard-earned money at a problem that doesn't slap them in the face every day, or even exist in their opinion. | |
| | | googoodan
join:2003-03-15
Apo, AE
·T-Com
| Re: Local loop unbundling said by openbox9 :The real question is how do you get to a common infrastructure without costing taxpayers more money than we're already chiseling out of our pockets? A lot of countries with this "wonderful shared infrastructure" have their citizens paying hefty taxes to foot the bill. A lot of people don't enjoy throwing more of their hard-earned money at a problem that doesn't slap them in the face every day, or even exist in their opinion. Having lived in Europe for about 4.5 years now, I feel some parts of the European economy are often overlooked. This is one. In Germany, Deutsche Telekom owns all of the telephone lines. In many areas, they also provide service along those telephone lines. They also lease those same lines to other companies that provide services. The cost that those other companies incur are passed to their paying subscribers. If I choose not to have a landline in my home, then I do not pay any fees or taxes for the cost of the line.
Remember that all though Deutsche Telekom owns virtually 100% of the telephone lines, there is ALWAYS a choice of service providers.
The same goes for DSL, cable, cellular coverage, etc.
For the most part, this sort of competition usually results in better services at better prices. | |
| | | | openbox9
join:2004-01-26
Navarre, FL
·Mediacom
| Re: Local loop unbundling Remind me again what German citizen's (i.e. those not falling under the US SOFA ) pay again in taxes and their cost of living. Also, DT used to be owned in large part by the German government which made it a lot easier. Don't get me wrong, I love Germany and would go back in a heartbeat, I just don't think it's a fair comparison. Also, I agree that fair competition usually results in better service and price, and I welcome it with open arms. I was merely inquiring as to how we get to the fair competition point without burdening innocent taxpayers. | |
| | | |
oknow984
@verizon.com
| That's what's happening in the US, is it not? ILEC's (not cable co.'s) have been forced to share their footprint to the point of letting ABC Telco enter their CO's, install their own equip., jumper it to the ILEC frame, & sell their services across the ILEC's plant........all at a cut-rate price.
However, now that Vz is going to fiber they are afforded the same luxuries that the cable co.'s have enjoyed.......... | |
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