Yes, The Glut Is Over Operators beef up core networks XO Communications yesterday announced that they're doubling capacity. Verizon recently started testing 100Gbps transmission routes. Simon Zelingher, VP of AT&T Research Labs, recently stated his company will need to upgrade to a 100-Gbps backbone by the end of the decade (AT&T just got done upgrading to 40Gbps, and found that capacity quickly filled). Light Reading, in case you hadn't noticed, reminds us that the bandwidth glut of the 90's is gone. That's not to say there's a bandwidth apocalypse coming -- carriers seem to have no problem meeting capacity, and some data indicates the explosive growth is actually starting to slow.
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 | |  Good
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|  |  Jerm
join:2000-04-10
Richland, WA
kudos:2 | Re: Good Growth is starting to slow? Perhaps if Comcrap were to get rid of their RST packet boxen we'd be back on track! | |
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 Jovi
join:2000-02-24
Mount Joy, PA | Newsflash! Senator Ted Stevens just read this report and declares WE NEED MORE TUBES! 
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"Where's my coffee? Oh. I guess it's my turn to make it."  | |
| |  JigsawStardust We ArePremium
join:2000-10-21
Cleveland, OH | Re: Newsflash! said by Jovi:Senator Ted Stevens just read this report and declares WE NEED MORE TUBES! And Trucks!!!
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"It's called the American dream because you have to be asleep to believe it."-George Carlin
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| | | | | Re: Newsflash! We are running out of helium | |
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neftv
join:2000-10-01
Broomall, PA Reviews:
 ·SIP Global Phone
·QuantumVoice
 ·Verizon FiOS
| that quest That quest to have that higher speed.... Of course the more bandwidth in the last mile will require these super pipes upstream which seems to make costs go higher to us at the end of the day.
I kind of feel that be realistic in what bandwidth you really need. It would be nice to have how Japan has it at a much lower cost but here in this country stockholders (not the consumer) always seem to win.
BTW I am happy with my Fios 5/2 package but if it goes to 10/2 (like been rumored) great but I not willing to pay more if for what my original package was. My 5/2 serves me well. That's just my two cents worth. | |
| | | | Re: that quest When VZ Avenue raised my speed from 1.5 to 3.0, my price went from $19.99 to $29.99, no options. Of course, I didn't call and complain. If you spend an hour or two with cust support maybe you can keep your speed and price. | |
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 intellerSociopaths always win.
join:2003-12-08
Tulsa, OK | thank goodness. My Level3 stock had been taking a beating. | |
|  gatorkramKaBOOM BabyPremium
join:2002-07-22
Winterville, NC
kudos:2
 ·Suddenlink
| The sky... is falling the sky is falling....
wait... let me look up and see if it's really falling..
the sky is fine, nothing to see here.
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Give me bandwidth or give me death!
»/testhistory/661871/4f240 | |
| wierdo
join:2001-02-16
Tulsa, OK Reviews:
·Cox HSI
 ·T-Mobile US
| Oh, there's a glut, just not of what you think.. There's more fiber in the ground than we know what to do with. What is lacking is the hardware on each end. Unlike the fiber itself, most of which has had the construction cost cast aside in bankruptcy (other than AT&T and a select few other companies, that is), the hardware to light it costs cold, hard cash and lots of it. | |
| | Reviews:
·Comcast
| Re: Oh, there's a glut, just not of what you think.. said by wierdo:There's more fiber in the ground than we know what to do with. What is lacking is the hardware on each end. Unlike the fiber itself, most of which has had the construction cost cast aside in bankruptcy (other than AT&T and a select few other companies, that is), the hardware to light it costs cold, hard cash and lots of it. Not true , what we lack is companies willing to light the fiber with old equipment , instead they hawke it on the open market for pennies on the hundreds the equipment cost initially.
What we or I should say would like to see is the new fiber routes they acquired which are now dark BTW, be lit with older equipment that got EOLed out of service and is being auctioned off.
At my job I am trying to get this instated as well to save us some cash , these companies are bleeding money from little things like this.
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"It's always funny until someone gets hurt......and then it's absolutely friggin' hysterical!" | |
| | | ricep5Premium
join:2000-08-07
Jacksonville, FL | Re: Oh, there's a glut, just not of what you think.. You are both right.
There is still alot of transcontinental dark fiber available out there. Just no nodes to connect it to (yet).
Transcon fiber is relatively cheap to deploy vs. an urban/suburban deployment where the majority of the demand is.
Based on my recent fiber discussions, its the poor revenue models some of the carriers use that are slowing them down.
Some of them want 100% post deployment revenue to justify the investment. Others are smarter and are looking for at least 30% post revenue to justify.
There was a time where the carriers would trip over themselves to install fiber to win a deal. Now many of them are pushing the costs back to the customers and telling them they have to pay for the lateral from the manhole. It's no wonder fiber wins are slow under this arrangement. | |
| | | | | | | Reviews:
·Comcast
| Re: Oh, there's a glut, just not of what you think.. Why lay 500 k out for a link that only sees 45 mbit use ? Instead move the carrier that is still in service that can maintain the expected need there and invest in your core routes.
The man power is still being paid even if they don't work , so keeping more fiber lit even if it's old equipment is still a good idea. They can use them as traffic relievers during peek usage. Some backbone engineers are saying they see 80 % usage with peaks in the 90's on a couple pops. Realize even an old gig rig could be used to alleviate some traffic from those at little to no cost. You can't just keep shelling out cash with todays economy and todays stock holders , they just do not accept that as an answer.
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"It's always funny until someone gets hurt......and then it's absolutely friggin' hysterical!" | |
| | | | | wierdo
join:2001-02-16
Tulsa, OK Reviews:
·Cox HSI
·T-Mobile US
| Re: Oh, there's a glut, just not of what you think.. said by BosstonesOwn:they just do not accept that as an answer. They are less likely to accept increased labor cost to maintain the old equipment and increased warehousing costs from keeping spares for the old equipment and increased support contract costs for keeping the support contracts on the old equipment.
Besides, capex looks better to shareholders than just about any other kind of expense. | |
| | | | | | | | Re: Oh, there's a glut, just not of what you think.. why keep spares ? thing dies then you rotate in old stock from another site , don't need spares | |
| | | | | | | wierdo
join:2001-02-16
Tulsa, OK Reviews:
·Cox HSI
·T-Mobile US
| Re: Oh, there's a glut, just not of what you think.. said by BosstonesOwn:why keep spares ? thing dies then you rotate in old stock from another site , don't need spares Because if it's in production, you have to get it back up and running quickly, today, now, not in 12 hours, tomorrow, or next week. | |
| | | | | | | | | | Re: Oh, there's a glut, just not of what you think.. Forget it you missed the point. | |
| | | | | | | | | wierdo
join:2001-02-16
Tulsa, OK Reviews:
·Cox HSI
·T-Mobile US
| Re: Oh, there's a glut, just not of what you think.. How did I miss the point? You said something which I took to mean "when it breaks, use some other old stock from somewhere else," which I think misses the boat regarding reliability. | |
| | | | | | | | | | Reviews:
·Comcast
| Re: Oh, there's a glut, just not of what you think.. When they upgrade it's not old stock per say , it,s stock that has been used past its service periods. Even if the equipment is 4 years old it's deemed replaceable and so it's swapped out.
Some of this gear is still quite useful and works fine. Instead of using it to light another strand else where they auction it off.
This gear is called EOL'ed gear which means end of life gear. It is not always broken, for example we are phasing out 3 ghz pcs at work , the are 3 years old and considered EOL. But 95% are running fine and 75% don't need a powerful pc that the newer ones provide. So instead of just boxing em up and sending em off to a dump to be destroyed we should cycle them to others , like receptionists and the like who don't need the power. The same should be done with routing gear.
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"It's always funny until someone gets hurt......and then it's absolutely friggin' hysterical!" | |
|
 gaforcesUnited We Stand, Divided We Fall
join:2002-04-07
Santa Cruz, CA
2 edits | What Glut? From what I remember, the net was slower, the large carriers never had enough capacity for holidays or peak times from 7-10pm and weekends.
Opening days of any new game, franchise, or new media got hammered into mirrors, then the mirrors went down.
All these paper upgrade announcements are good hype, but I still cant get UVERSE/ADSL2+, FIOS, or DoCsis2-3 cable, in my area. And they wont give any idea when it will be available, or even if it will be available.
Oh and here's the kicker, I wouldnt believe anything they say about launches and deployment areas anyways  Fool me once ...
--
‘Do ye, quieting in your bosoms your strong hearts,
Who of many good things have had your fill even to surfeit,
With what is moderate nourish your mighty desire; for neither will
We yield, nor shall you have all else as you wish.’
Solon | |
| | |  Let start download the next Linux distros
The growth of the network is depend on us to download and make sure stress testing is perform now rather than later. | |
| |  TzaleProud Libertarian ConservativePremium
join:2004-01-06
NYC Metro | Re: Let start download the next Linux distros said by Fiber_guru :
I propose that everyone need to download at least 4-10 Gigabytes a day. Just download !!!
The growth of the network is depend on us to download and make sure stress testing is perform now rather than later.
Bad advice.... The networks will be upgraded when natural demand exceeds supply. If people hammer the network for no reason but to "WASTE" bandwidth, all they are doing is hurting themselves. It only takes one or two people nowadays on a cable node to cut the bandwidth for an entire neighborhood. Don't waste bandwidth, use what you need.
We're all in this together.
Of course, if you download a hundred gigabytes a day, and NEED it, there is nothing wrong with that... It is just part of the natural demand... IMHO...
-Tzale | |
| | rradina
join:2000-08-08
Chesterfield, MO | Great idea! This approach works so well when new roads are needed. Just think back to the last time you waited in rush hour... | |
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| | Glut? There was no bandwidth glut in the 90's.
I worked for 2 national backbone ISP's through the 90's and there was never a glut of bandwidth. We were always struggling to keep peering links from being saturated by adding new ones. As was everyone I knew working at UUnet, Sprint, PSI.
There was, and still is, a fiber glut. Lots of unused or underutilized fiber out there. And with the DWDM technology that can light it (Eighty 10, 40, or 100gbit wavelengths on one fiber) there could certainly be a bandwidth glut.
But I foresee it as being just like the 90's. Always enough backbone bandwidth, but always trying to keep it from filling up, just different applications running on the backbones now.
Not sure who told someone there was a bandwidth glut in the 90's. | |
| Hctim
join:2004-09-12
Denver, CO | This is a Joke lol, Level 3 Communications has 400Gbps of backbone transmission routes .
Level 3 is growing 12% faster then any other backbone ISP. Also Level 3 has the most dark fiber out of any provider. I'm note sure why this is such a big deal?
BTW I work at Level 3
Mitch | |
| | gaforcesUnited We Stand, Divided We Fall
join:2002-04-07
Santa Cruz, CA
1 edit | Re: This is a Joke Hi mitch,
What happened on thanksgiving day, black friday, and cyber monday?
Most e-retailer sites I (and many others) were trying to reach were non responsive. Most likely, I would have made purchases if I had been able to browse the e-tailers sites.
Glut or bottleneck? Capacity isnt reached yet?
Next hammering will be christmas eve to the day after christmas, can level 3 handle it? Guess we will see.
I will be thinking about this article when I am surfing at xmas 
--
‘Do ye, quieting in your bosoms your strong hearts,
Who of many good things have had your fill even to surfeit,
With what is moderate nourish your mighty desire; for neither will
We yield, nor shall you have all else as you wish.’
Solon | |
| | | Hctim
join:2004-09-12
Denver, CO | Re: This is a Joke What are you talking about? You have no clue... Please provides status one what your talking about. Do you even know who Level 3 is »www.level3.com/about_us/index.html ? | |
| | | | gaforcesUnited We Stand, Divided We Fall
join:2002-04-07
Santa Cruz, CA
1 edit | Re: This is a Joke Say what? Since almost every ISP Ive had has leased from level 3, I am aware of thier status. I am also aware of when they have had problems, since I have been on the recieving end ...
This very site has pointed to level 3 router problems many times.
--
‘Do ye, quieting in your bosoms your strong hearts,
Who of many good things have had your fill even to surfeit,
With what is moderate nourish your mighty desire; for neither will
We yield, nor shall you have all else as you wish.’
Solon | |
| | | | | Jerm
join:2000-04-10
Richland, WA
kudos:2 | Re: This is a Joke Hey kids... while level3 does have some routers on the DSLR "watch" list I think the slowdown you were talking about on cybermonday and such was due to servers not being able to handle the demands, the backbones were fine btw.
All ISPS have their occasional hiccups. Its the name of the game. | |
| | | | | | gaforcesUnited We Stand, Divided We Fall
join:2002-04-07
Santa Cruz, CA
2 edits | Re: This is a Joke Yes, level 3 is usually pretty quick to fix problems, they are one of the best carriers.
This does not mean that capacity is met, just that they can point to this report for an excuse on why they didnt spend more on infrastructure, saying we dont need it.
Part of the problem might be the servers, but so many of them at once?
And this isnt occasional, its been happening every holiday for years. Also, I have never seen an internet product launch without massive internet congestion. When these problems are solved, we will have met capacity.
Id like to see reports from a neutral 3rd party with proof of your claim that the backbone was "fine" and what you consider fine is.
thanks
--
‘Do ye, quieting in your bosoms your strong hearts,
Who of many good things have had your fill even to surfeit,
With what is moderate nourish your mighty desire; for neither will
We yield, nor shall you have all else as you wish.’
Solon | |
| | | | | | | Jerm
join:2000-04-10
Richland, WA
kudos:2 | Re: This is a Joke gaforces - Whoa a neutral 3rd party investigation? Uhh you can find stuff like this out for yourself, ie you can be that 3rd party.
The reality is the backbone problems are actually pretty easy to diagnose. You can run pings and tracerts to pinpiont if the connection is dying somewhere along the line. In your case, you may have had congestion on your little slice of network - but this could have been proven/disproven at the time with a little forensics.
Go download a little program called pingplotter. It will graph the hops it takes to get to network destination and give you a nice little graph (on the shareware version, not freeware ver). One of the most useful tools I've ever used for diagnosing network issues with my ISP.
If you experience this problem again, I'd start loading up pingplotter and try to trace the sites your going to. You may be surprised to find the packets get to/from the loacation just fine, it's just the servers can't process the request.
Your comment about the internet product launch is almost laughable - because all the examples I can think of were server based issues. Like during the holidays when you try to do that online checkout dance, do you end up with page timeouts dealing with your shopping cart and the normal checkout process? Thats a server issue bud! They're getting slammed. | |
| | | | | | | | gaforcesUnited We Stand, Divided We Fall
join:2002-04-07
Santa Cruz, CA
3 edits | Re: This is a Joke Thanks for the info, I had heard that nowadays routers/servers discard pings? Usually when it gets slow I just stop the frustration of waiting for sites to load and watch a movie or something.
Since it usually always happens at holidays, I already know the problem is congestion, so no further investigation is necessary. Doesnt matter where its from, just that it happens, then goes away after demand goes down.
I had just wanted to see some stats of how much traffic went through at black friday, because my experience wasnt "fine" trying to surf etailers. Sears, RadioShack, Circuit City, Staples, OfficeMax, Newegg, ZipZoomFly, and Home Depot were all crawling very slowly, and it was all the servers, backbone was fine. I just have a hard time believing that, sorry 
--
‘Do ye, quieting in your bosoms your strong hearts,
Who of many good things have had your fill even to surfeit,
With what is moderate nourish your mighty desire; for neither will
We yield, nor shall you have all else as you wish.’
Solon | |
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