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(old news - 01:01PM Thursday Sep 13 2007)
Back in May I had an "idea" for a new site and got sucked into looking at available domain names. If you want your new domain name to actually MEAN something you are stuck buying it from a domain name bank of some kind. I made an inquiry through buydomains.com for the name I was interested in. They run some kind of feeble ongoing "domain auction" site that tries to look like ebay but actually has very little actual commerce. I didn't like the initial price I received, USD 1288, and when I questioned the price and the fact I also got a cellphone call, I got this reply:
I might have called. The prices we quote are based on the price we paid
for the name as well as the revenue it generates as a parked name. We
pay much more than just a registration fee for each of the 800,000 names
we own. That being said I do have room for negotiation and would like
to try and come up with a price we can both agree on. What would be the
best number to call you at so we can take a minute to talk about it?
Jay Wladkowski
Account Executive
BuyDomains Division
NameMedia, Inc.
230 Third Avenue, 2nd Floor
Waltham, MA 02451
Account Executive huh? Yeah Right. Goodbye! Since that day over the subsequent months I've been spammed both by phone (calls I ignore) and by email with the following subject lines: Agressive Pricng Now Through June 30th July Savings on .....net Summer Discount on .....net Back to Business Domain Savings New Discount on ....net With similar message bodies all encouraging me to call and get the new one-time-only, special deal on the domain name I was interested in. I hate the way they do business. If the domain name is only of interest to me and nobody else, then the market price is what *I* offer. Yet they would rather hold onto this worthless (to them) name and keep on plugging away hoping that the nibble they got is a fish. What a horrible business to be in.
|  About dslreports.com
|
 
Domainer
@comcast.net
| That's how it works Obviously, someone already thought of this "idea" of yours and registered the domain first. If it wasn't worth anything to them, they'd simply let it expire and drop. But the name is probably making some money being parked, at least enough to cover the $6.00 annual renewal fee.
Your attitude on this is all wrong. If you really want a domain that's been registered, you have to attempt to negotiate with the current owner - in this case, BuyDomains. I've purchased several domains from them myself and they WILL work with you. Be thankful that the registrant is willing to sell the domain at all. Some people don't sell their domains to anyone. That's just how this business works. On the other hand, you can always search for an available domain that will cost you a lousy $6.00.
Don't let your frustrations get ya down. Good luck! | |
|
domainking
@sleyconsulting.com
| you are wrong my friend.. I do not understand how you could be surprised by the acts of seller..
Think of domain name as gold/real estate/product..
People buy it to sell it for higher price.. Same is this case.. The names are more worth than gold because they cant be reproduced/duplicated..
Its simple demand-supply logic.. So, go home and register as many as u can afford before they are gone.. No wonder this trend is going to continue..
btb.. what name are you looking for? can't be said?
Good luck with your web plans | |
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justin
Australian
join:1999-05-28
Brooklyn, NY
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| Re: you are wrong my friend.. The domain name after-market has insane ideas on the value of the names. They aren't "gold" (except in a few cases) they are lead. You actually have to build a site to turn lead into gold. The majority of this 800k name bank would not cover their annual cost in mistaken clicks although obviously some generate big chunks of revenue from n00bs - IF they host pages that sufficiently deceptively constructed to look like content.
Domain banks like buydomains.com with their "valuation tools" and complex auction systems that really just churn their inventory month in and month out, are fishing for prices rather than being realistic. The fact that they won't list the actual prices the domains are available for on the site - instead preferring to negotiate on the phone - says "valuation bubble" to me.
Most unused domains are not a commodity and have no value beyond their current "click-mistake" revenue, which they dare not show because prices would collapse. | |
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deerh
@cox.net
| Re: you are wrong my friend.. justin
Some domains are gold and some are lead. Though lead has value too. Buydomains.com and other aftermarket sellers have to sell to stay in business. I don't think they are just "fishing for prices". But if you look at what sells on Afternic and Sedo, there are daily sales of domains between $1K and 3K. Those are lead prices and not gold prices. Business.com and single good generics like that are gold and command gold prices. And for a good domain it would be worth paying between $1 and $3K. Especially if you have the ability to turn a lead domain into a gold one, which it sounds like you do. Good luck! | |
|
domaincoach
@sbcglobal.net
| Dogs don't chase parked cars The fact that you are looking for this name gives the name value.
The actual value is determined not just by you but by the seller.
I really can't imagine anyone going down the road and claiming that the car business or home that someone else owns should really be your and at a price you absolutely think is fair.
What ever happened to this world where instead of being proactive and being risk takers we have fallen to the level of sitting idly on the sidelines and expecting others to wait for you to do something or basically give you what you want when you are ready to move on it just because you are you.
As one poster said. Get over it, you didn't act and somebody else did. Either pay what they want or take responsibility for your inaction and hopefully find another name.
But whatever you do please stop whining or putting down true entrepreneurs who understand the power of acting first and are willing to take risks that you apparently are not. | |
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justin
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| Re: Dogs don't chase parked cars said by domaincoach :
As one poster said. Get over it, you didn't act and somebody else did. Either pay what they want or take responsibility for your inaction and hopefully find another name. Thats funny. I didn't act because it was over priced by an order of magnitude and if nobody knows I want it, it will remain unsold -- as it is today. They keep spamming me with "act now" emails hoping that one morning I will wake up and recognize the "value" their 100 line bulk registration perl script added to the domain.
But whatever you do please stop whining or putting down true entrepreneurs who understand the power of acting first and are willing to take risks that you apparently are not.
Also funny. Thats right, the true entrepreneur. Just like ticket scalpers. Another great "entrepreneurial" tradition that one should never whine about. Enjoy those thousand dollar vegas show seats sold out at face value because scalpers pay the unemployed to line up each morning at 9am six months ahead of time to buy them up. The "power" of "Acting first" indeed. I'm sure domain banks would have preferred to be in the business of registering patents on self-evident business processes so they can sue anyone "infringing" - but that would have required getting a law degree. Too much like hard work! | |
| | | 
TK Junk Mail
Go ahead, make my day
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Margate City, NJ
clubs:
 ·Comcast
edit:
September 14th, @02:52PM
| Re: Dogs don't chase parked cars I noticed that all those defending this domain name hijacking were anonymous posters. They are probably in the business of squatting on these names hoping to blackmail someone with an idea and web site that can actually be developed. There should be a rule that if a name is not turned in to a legitimate site within 1 year, that every domain name wholesaler be prohibited from re-registering it.
--
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Internet News
My BLOG
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wesm
Wyvern.Org
Premium
join:1999-07-29
Saskatoon, SK
clubs:
| Re: Dogs don't chase parked cars said by justin  :My issue isn't domain name hijacking - that is a whole other subject that we've had to pay lawyers a lot of $$$s to deal with, and it isn't even dealt with yet! More just the whole business of domain name banks and reselling smells off to me. It smells like scalping. I'd agree that it does feel like scalping, since I've tried (unsuccessfully) to get a variety of domain names in a myriad of suffixes, with no success. (Virtually every domain in .us is registered, I think)
On the other hand, while it bothers me, it's basically the same "bother" as driving by a nice tract of land every day on the way to work, and wishing I owned it. I didn't get there first, or have the capital to invest, or any other of a number of reasons; any way the salami is sliced, I don't own that land, and I'm jealous. Same with domain names. I'd love to have the three letter "variant" of a domain I already own, but there's no chance of that. Therefore, I'm jealous of the current owner, and it torques me off that he's willing to "sell" me the domain at a price higher than I can either justify (a.k.a. the wife factor) or afford ($10,000 for a database entry?!).
Such is life, I suppose.
--
Opinions expressed here are mine and not my employer's. This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights. | |
| | | | Dave Zan
join:2007-09-17
edit:
September 17th, @06:45AM
| said by TK Junk Mail :defending this domain name hijacking Define domain name hijacking.
In the domain registrar business, it's generally accepted as one where a paid
domain name has been forcefully and wrongfully taken by a 3rd party without
its registered name holder's knowledge and consent. Where's the hijacking in
this discussion? | |
| | |
MediaHound
@comcast.net
| said by justin :Also funny. Thats right, the true entrepreneur. Just like ticket scalpers. Another great "entrepreneurial" tradition that one should never whine about. Enjoy those thousand dollar vegas show seats sold out at face value because scalpers pay the unemployed to line up each morning at 9am six months ahead of time to buy them up. The "power" of "Acting first" indeed. That would make them employed, no? | |
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Realist
@maltanet.net
| Just a lot of jealous ranting with no substance Justin. You are rather arrogant if you think *you* should have the domain and nobody else and for next to nothing (in this industry $1288 is quite a bargain). No matter how you wrap it up, stamp your feet, and shout, the fact remains - you missed the opportunity that someone else took. You mentioned getting a law degree so go and do it as you are obviously too late to 'get rich quick' in this industry. The world does not owe you a living especially when your 'idea' came years after domain names were available for everyone. As for their spam - just blacklist them if it upsets you so much. | |
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justin
Australian
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| Re: Dogs don't chase parked cars You guys are all responding with the same cookie cutter argument. "Boo hoo you lost, someone else got there first. Deal with it". But here is the thing: nobody else wants the domain (if they don't know I want it), i'm not grouching because someone was willing to pay a higher price I'm grouching because of the process of offering domains for sale this way is SO VERY SLEAZY. Honestly I get a nicer experience buying theater tickets off craigslist from a scalper.
Do you, if you even exist as a person, understand the difference here? My complaint isn't that there is competition for undeveloped domain names - I'm not bidding on wealth.net or something - it is that the guys running the domain banks are creepy and I feel unclean even getting email (or phone calls) from them.
I'm firmly of the opinion that the domain after-market is way over-valued, it is a bubble of unrealistic expectations built on the quicksand of unregulated online ad business (ads masquerading as content!) and new users who are wide eyed about their new laptop and new browser and click on anything. I think the clock is ticking on the whole enterprise. | |
| | | | | Dave Zan
join:2007-09-17
edit:
September 17th, @06:48AM
| Re: Dogs don't chase parked cars said by justin :nobody else wants the domain And how, pray tell, do you know no one else wants it? You're not the one who is trying to sell the domain name, and you have no ounce of verifiable data of anyone else making similar offers (if any) to it.
You made an offer to buy the domain name, they made a counteroffer with an option to negotiate, then you find that sleazy? If you think my $149 offer to buy your 1997 Volkswagen Beatle (an example, I know) is too low for you and you reply back with a counteroffer, then I guess you won't mind my blogging about your being a sleazy SOB. (which I won't have to do...)
If by sleazy you mean BuyDomains is supposedly still spamming you with calls and emails, that I'll understand. Meanwhile, tell them to put you on their DNC list, block their emails, and threaten to report it to the relevant government agency with specifics about the matter.
If you think you know all there is to know about the domain aftermarket, then why don't you participate in one of them so you'll know more and maybe even gain a better understanding? Or are you too firmly biased to care? | |
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justin
Australian
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| Re: Dogs don't chase parked cars Hi anonymous-poster joined today in order to flame me as a member instead of a shadow.
I didn't make an offer, I can't actually remember the sequence but perhaps I had to buy some kind of annual "membership" (I remember thinking THAT whole process of being baited then hit with the membership form felt like it was dreamed up by someone recently ex the porn business) in order to fill out a form to make an inquiry, and then wait 2 days until the sales dude plucked a number out of the air and sent it to me, which I ignored. He then proceeded to phone my cell, which I ignored, and engage in email negotiation where he was careful not to name a new price in pixels, but talk vaguely about the discounts available should I call in.
The language used is full of crap such as this:
quote:
To avoid losing your name to another buyer or paying a higher price, we strongly recommend purchasing your domain(s) within seven days of receiving your quote.
And since then I've had sequential offers over email, again without prices, where I've been told that the domain is magically now available "on sale" .. "at a special one time discount" .. blah de bloody blah!
So, yes, I KNOW nobody else is interested in the domain at the prices this company likes to think any random domain is worth. They have 800,000 or whatever domains from aaawrigfhfkgshdgf to zzz0486589999 and only a tiny fraction of them would be of interest to even one person, and then only at a realistic price.
I find it interesting that this flood of anon angst doesn't so far object to me calling these operators no better than simple scalpers. They might dress their operation up with stupid "domain valuation" tools, complicated but ultimately empty "auction sites" and graphs showing predictions of future valuations, but that is just putting tuxedo, top hat and tails on a turd. | |
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Realist
@maltanet.net
| Re: Dogs don't chase parked cars wow Justin I can just imagine the throbbing vein on your forehead now. 
I have bought several domains from buydomains and they never asked me to pay a membership. Are you sure you're not just making things up because you're badly losing this 'argument'? »en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Fox_and_the_Grapes
As has been stated before if you can't bring yourself to pay a measly $1288 for a domain that you're going to base your 'business' on that is probably nature's way of telling you to stay working for someone else  | |
| | | | | | | Dave Zan
join:2007-09-17
| said by justin :Hi anonymous-poster joined today in order to flame me as a member instead of a shadow. Well, Justin, you posted something that's otherwise not completely accurate.
You still say you know no one wants it, but, again, how do you know that if
you're not the one selling it and you don't appear to have any kind of inside
information from the ones who do? (or do you?)
(Okay, I don't claim to have considerable experience dealing with this sort of
thing. Probably the next best thing is having worked with a domain registrar
for more than 4 years and handled various issues, including the one where an
end-user used the registrar's service to make an offer to buy a domain name.)
While people are essentially free to say and write whatever they want, they
ought to also be ready to be "corrected" by someone who happens to know a
bit more "intimately" about it, especially those who have experience on that
side of the fence. But when making a firm conclusion that can otherwise be
disputed almost easily, do you think you're doing any one an honest favor of
giving a supposedly "correct" picture with so much misleading information that
is online already?
Seriously, things like these is one reason people from that side of the fence
hardly want to speak up as much as they want to. I've this them trying to do
so many times, only to lead to numerous flame wars that end up nowhere. | |
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justin
Australian
join:1999-05-28
Brooklyn, NY | Re: Dogs don't chase parked cars I never doubted you make an excellent living. Congrats. | |
|
aaaabbb
@swbell.net
| Domaining is not a bad business What a horrible business to be in.
Buydomains probably makes over $50 million/year profit on their domains. And that's for doing nothing - collecting PPC income on parked domains. They are also one of the few large domain players that will sell domains. Most large players will not sell domains as good domains are appreciating assets and a domain that makes over a buck a month is ridiculously profitable once you scale it up.
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Dave Zan
@pldt.net
| Hmm... If the domain name is only of interest to me and nobody else, then the market price is what *I* offer. If you bought a 1997 Volkswagen beetle for $699, it helped you make $1000+
a month for 2 years straight, I email you today to offer to buy it from you for
only $149, will you sell the car to me at the market price I offer? If you find
my offer repulsive, then why are you pissed at BuyDomains' answer to yours?
And now you see fit to spread the gospel according to St. Justin over a thing
you don't seem to fully understand, much more care except for only your own
bias maybe? Hasn't the parable of the rich man who gave up his belongings to
obtain the pearl he wanted taught you anything?
On the side, if you're still getting spammed by those phone calls from BD, why
not tell them to put you on their Do-Not-Call List or risk getting investigated
by the FTC? Are those phone calls and emails from BD anyway? | |
|
Realist
@maltanet.net | Sad but true. They have the domain. You don't. Pay for it or get over it. Quite simple really. | |
|
Paul_C
@broadbandscope.com
| Domain value "If the domain name is only of interest to me and nobody else, then the market price is what *I* offer."
That may be true for today (accepting the lack of active marketing), but if they don't need to sell *today* then they have the *right* of waiting to see if future parties see greater value in it than you do. Especially given that they may see a higher value in holding the domain for their own usage than you do for what you have planned.
That is their free choice, a choice they have *paid* to have. | |
|
biscuits_123
@com.au
| ... "Yet they would rather hold onto this worthless (to them) name"
Domains are vacant land. If you owned 100 acres of land with nothing on it, are you going to give it to me just because I want to build a casino on it? Of course you aren't.
"If the domain name is only of interest to me and nobody else, then the market price is what *I* offer."
No, the market price is what you and the seller agree on, not what you want it to be. It's their choice to wait and see if someone else offers more than you.
At the end of the day, they're making nearly seven figures of sales per month, plus parking revenue, and you're whining like a bitch because you're too unsure if your business model is worth spending $1288 on. Who's the schmuck? | |
| | dvarona
join:1999-11-29
Richmond Hill, NY
edit:
September 17th, @04:34PM
| Re: ... Comment snipped and moved to top-level at the end of list, titled "Okay, I'll bite." | |
| | 
insomniac84
join:2002-01-03
Schererville, IN | If the owner isn't using it for a legitimate site or doesn't have the intention of ever using it. It makes no sense for them to be able to own it and force other people to pay large sums of money to get a domain that isn't being used. | |
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Realist
@maltanet.net
| Re: ... Why do people who make these inane comments always immediately assume that *their* reason for wanting to own a domain is more important than the person who already owns it? I might decide that what you consider good use of a domain is actually garbage. Does that mean that I am then entitled to your domain? 
When you buy a domain it is ENTIRELY up to you what you do with it. Nobody else has the right, or should have the right, to tell you how best to use it. If they want to sit on it and do nothing then fine - they paid for the right to do that. You had the same opportunity at the same time you just either didn't want to or realised too late. You think I'm entitled to have your car because I think you don't use it enough?! I guess some people are just used to getting what they want handed to them on a plate if they throw a big enough tantrum. Luckily this is one industry where nobody will give in to tantrums. | |
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insomniac84
join:2002-01-03
Schererville, IN | Re: ... Its stupid to allow a company to buy up domain names from registrars just to resell them for a profit. They aren't adding anything to the equation, therefore there is no need for them to exist. | |
| 
Gwellin
Premium
join:2004-05-31
Regina, SK
| Make it a news item I'm half surprised the anonymous replies are continuing; it almost seems like a couple of guys using proxies. I curious if you were to post a story similar to this as a front page news item, would you get any registered users defending the scalpers? Registered for more than a week I mean.
--
Here to help all those in need, whenever I can. | |
|
Tia Wood
@prserv.net
| Domain names are sort of like reverse branding. Domain names are sort of like reverse branding. When you think of Office Depot what word pops up in your mind. Some might say "office". When you think of Starbucks, one might say "coffee". Domains are just the same. Office.com and Coffee.com work as reverse branding, branding the word to a particular company instead of a company to a particular word. And it works for individuals.
And it works. Because hundreds of thousands of users type directly into the browser instead of using a search engine. This type of traffic is highly targeted and converts into sales, leads and quality traffic.
Not all domainers park their domains to pay-per-click pages. Some, like me, do park to see what type of traffic the domain gets and eventually build to a website. Not all domainers participate in "hijacking" or "cybersquatting" or whatever you want to call it.
Justin, without you revealing the domain name I have no idea if what was asked was a fair price. You'd also have to factor how many unique visitors and what type of revenue, if any, the domain has. Also, a domain name doesn't have to acquire unique visitors or revenue to be valuable.
"If you want your new domain name to actually MEAN something you are stuck buying it from a domain name bank of some kind." Not true. With the exception of obvious high quality domains like Coffee.com and BuyComputers.com, good available domains are still out there. Technically, you can make up just about any domain you want and build a brand from it. YouTube.com is an example and so it Facebook.com.
I hope that clears a few things up. If you want to contact me, go through my contact form at TiaWood.com
Tia Wood | |
| dvarona
join:1999-11-29
Richmond Hill, NY
 ·Speakeasy
edit:
September 17th, @05:35PM
| Okay, I'll bite. All right, I'll stick my nose in here. Chop it off if you like. And I've been registered here for quite a long time...
The problem is that domains were intended to be registered fairly to those with commercial need on a first-come, first-served basis. Like selling tickets to a Yankees game, there are a number of seats and once someone gets the seat, it's gone unless he wants to give it to someone else.
Also like a Yankees game, there are people who are willing to pay more than face value for a domain. So someone creates a shady market where one was not intended to exist.
The infuriating thing for the new purchaser is that the only reason you have it is because you ran a program that jammed some common phrases together and now make money for no real effort-- and for really no other reason than to take advantage of guesses at what people will buy. Yes, that's right, domain resellers do pretty much nothing except provide a few servers where all their DNS records point, and do some deals with anonymous advertisers. "1... register domain 2... put ads on minimal webserver boxes 3... Profit!!!" It's a classic landgrab that games the system.
Of course it's perfectly legal. So I suppose you can hide behind your self-righteous legalism. That doesn't stop us for thinking of your business as unrespectable:
1) No real content for your domain
2) Sole purpose is to scalp any interested parties
3) Lying sales tactics of "buy now! one time deal!!"
4) Violating the spirit of the intent of the system. Too bad the spirit is not legally enforceable.
Regulators have caught on to the ticket scalping process, and in some places have put caps on what people can do when they resell tickets. Why should I pay an extra $100 per ticket just because someone else, who isn't even going to the game, got there first for the sole purpose of selling it later at an inflated price? We can only hope for similar regulatory justice someday in the domain market. It's been full of shadiness from ICANN and VeriSign on down since the first day.
But we know this: your market is artificial, created from thin air. It relies heavily on hiding information to justify its prices. We won't ever trust you that their domain is worth $1500 just because you say so-- and it makes me proud that Justin has brains here. That puts you in the category of spammers with promises of low, low refinancing costs and penis fertilizers that really really really work. If you think the domain is truly worth $1500, why not make all your marketing data public, and let us see who else has asked for it? Of course you won't. Classic information hiding, with no real value-- just like the reviled used car salesman. The wild, wild west will be tamed someday.
I caught on to this tactic used by your industry a couple of years ago when I checked out a domain name. It was available... but suddenly the next day, it wasn't! And I was offered the ability to negotiate! Now mind you, my domain name is completely unpredictable as it is a bastardized, transliterated Russian word with only personal value. So the domain registrar provided someone (maybe themselves!) with the information that I was curious about the domain and that someone parked it.
I lost complete respect for you ever since. So you still don't smell too good, no mater how "legal" you are. And I will decide on my weird domain name immediately before I buy it next time, I promise.
--dv | |
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See 18 replies to this post | |
bobrk
4124
Premium
join:2000-02-02
San Jose, CA | I agree it's slimy, but... ...don't play their game. Make up something like Trulia or Zillow and run with it. | |
| | 
Jehu
dejapoo
Premium
join:2002-09-13
MA | Name Media Down the street from me. Know some of the people who work there.
It's a slimey business model. Makes pr0n look clean.
They are just domain pimps. | |
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Let Loose!