iPhone 3GS Limited To 384kbps Upstream New video-centric phone doesn't support HSUPA Our friend and wireless networking guru Glenn Fleishman offers up an interesting read over at MacWorld, exploring some of the bandwidth constraints inherent in the new iPhone 3GS. While the 3GS seems ready to handle AT&T's planned upgrades to 7.2 Mbps downstream HSPA, interestingly, it doesn't appear able to handle AT&T's upgrades to HSUPA technology, which boosted uspstream wireless bandwidth on the AT&T network to between 500kbps and 800kbps. It's interesting the 3GS only supports UMTS, topping out at 384 kbps, given the phone's primary function is to upload video -- but maybe that will be a selling point of next year's inevitable model.
|
  DarkLogixPremium
join:2008-10-23
Baytown, TX
kudos:3 | I think so it seems to be apple's way (don't give em what they want until they've begged for a year and then only give it partly) | |
|  | | | Re: I think so Yep. So let's see what they could throw in for next year's model.
HSUPA
Standard mini-USB charger
AMOLED display, which will be brighter and allow...
Improved battery life
A real keyboard
Now, Apple will choose three, incorporate those into the new model, and push the rest back to the 2011 version. | |
| | | | | Re: I think so said by ISurfTooMuch:Yep. So let's see what they could throw in for next year's model. HSUPA Standard mini-USB charger AMOLED display, which will be brighter and allow... Improved battery life A real keyboard Now, Apple will choose three, incorporate those into the new model, and push the rest back to the 2011 version. Actually Apple will only choose one for the next gen - the least expensive one and bundle other useless features with it to claim it is the best phone ever. Even though they cut the price of the current gen phone, I am betting that they next one will either have a price increase or no price cut. | |
| | | | | | | | |  N3OGHYo Soy Col. "Bat" GuanoPremium
join:2003-11-11
Philly burbs
kudos:1 | Re: I think so Now if it just made decent phone calls....  | |
| | | | | | | | Re: I think so said by N3OGH:Now if it just made decent phone calls.... Or got decent reception. I can't count the number of posts on HoFo where people complain about reception on their iPhones. I know that AT&T has its shortcomings (I use them), but all of the reception issues aren't the fault of the network, and it's been known from the outset that the iPhone has sub-par RF performance.
As much as I like Apple products, they're a computer company, not a phone maker. They really ought to allow a company with experience in this area design the radio in the device and focus on the interface and other high-level parts of the handset. | |
| | | | | | |  ssj4androidRedefining Reality
join:2002-04-14
Wyoming, MI | Re: I think so Why don't more phones offer calling over Wi-Fi? I see T-Mobile does with some Blackberry phones, why not Android? And why can't AT&T do the same thing with the iPhone? | |
| | | | | | | |  M A R SPremium
join:2001-06-15
Long Island | Re: I think so I use skpe on my iPhone all the time
--
See you in Villains | |
|
| | | | | | Reviews:
 ·AT&T U-Verse
 ·T-Mobile US
·AT&T Wireless Br..
 ·ViaTalk
·Verizon Broadban..
| said by ISurfTooMuch:said by N3OGH:Now if it just made decent phone calls.... Or got decent reception. I can't count the number of posts on HoFo where people complain about reception on their iPhones. I know that AT&T has its shortcomings (I use them), but all of the reception issues aren't the fault of the network, and it's been known from the outset that the iPhone has sub-par RF performance. As much as I like Apple products, they're a computer company, not a phone maker. They really ought to allow a company with experience in this area design the radio in the device and focus on the interface and other high-level parts of the handset. Another problem with the iPhone is no 3G. VZW has got AT&T beat around here for 3G in Jefferson, Shelby, Tuscaloosa, And Walker County. AT&T should better since they are the landline provider, in fact there is no 3G coverage in Walker or Tuscaloosa for some reason. Even T-Mobile has 3G at UA.
--
I get 29 MPG in my Toyota Highlander Hybrid! | |
| | | | | | | | | said by ISurfTooMuch:said by N3OGH:Now if it just made decent phone calls.... Or got decent reception. I can't count the number of posts on HoFo where people complain about reception on their iPhones. I know that AT&T has its shortcomings (I use them), but all of the reception issues aren't the fault of the network, and it's been known from the outset that the iPhone has sub-par RF performance. As much as I like Apple products, they're a computer company, not a phone maker. They really ought to allow a company with experience in this area design the radio in the device and focus on the interface and other high-level parts of the handset. We have an iPhone unlocked with T Mobile and the reception is PERFECT.
--
»Check this out! | |
|
| | | |  MysticGogetaThe Robot DevilPremium
join:2005-03-14
League City, TX | Holding back technology makes money. Apple sure is a prime example of it. Crank out a new model every year with a few more features then millions of people buy the new and improved model cause they have the latest and greatest.
--
Team Discovery-Join the fight | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | |  tiger72SexaT duorPPremium
join:2001-03-28
Saint Louis, MO
kudos:1
·T-Mobile US
| Re: I think so it sure isn't a more expensive feature, and it's not like it's new. They coulda used a different chipset. Hell, ANY different chipset and they woulda had HSUPA.
Every HTC device - from the 9 month old G1 to the Hero and TouchPro2 has HSUPA.
Same goes with the SonyEricsson smartphones.
Only the crappy phones and dumbphones don't have HSUPA. That puts Apple in the ranks with Samsung. Congrats!
--
"What makes us omniscient? Have we a record of omniscience? ...If we can't persuade nations with comparable values of the merit of our cause, we'd better reexamine our reasoning."
-United States Secretary of Defense (1961-1968) Robert S. McNamara | |
|
| | | | | | | | | tiger72SexaT duorPPremium
join:2001-03-28
Saint Louis, MO
kudos:1 Reviews:
·T-Mobile US
| said by djrobx:said by k1ll3rdr4g0n:Actually Apple will only choose one for the next gen - the least expensive one and bundle other useless features with it to claim it is the best phone ever. Even though they cut the price of the current gen phone, I am betting that they next one will either have a price increase or no price cut. I think the mini-usb charger is a given, the EU is requiring it. This year we got a faster processor, double the RAM, an oleophobic touch screen, a vastly improved focusing camera, a compass, a voice DSP for hardware speech recognition and double the storage capacity this go around. So, I just can't agree with your assertion that they're holding back as much as possible for upgrades next year. I'm guessing they'll stick with the current pricing scheme as it seems to be working for them. All of which are not that amazing. My 9 month old G1 has a 3.2mp autofocus camera, a compass, and speech recognition, and it even has an amazing thing called HSUPA already, as well as an even more "innovative" "feature" called "multitasking". I can listen to streaming web radio via imeem AND do other things like "browsing the web" at the same time.
No, Apple is CERTAINLY holding back features. They just know that their customer base prefers to remain ignorant to the rest of the market.
--
"What makes us omniscient? Have we a record of omniscience? ...If we can't persuade nations with comparable values of the merit of our cause, we'd better reexamine our reasoning."
-United States Secretary of Defense (1961-1968) Robert S. McNamara | |
| | | | | | | | Re: I think so said by tiger72:said by djrobx:said by k1ll3rdr4g0n:Actually Apple will only choose one for the next gen - the least expensive one and bundle other useless features with it to claim it is the best phone ever. Even though they cut the price of the current gen phone, I am betting that they next one will either have a price increase or no price cut. I think the mini-usb charger is a given, the EU is requiring it. This year we got a faster processor, double the RAM, an oleophobic touch screen, a vastly improved focusing camera, a compass, a voice DSP for hardware speech recognition and double the storage capacity this go around. So, I just can't agree with your assertion that they're holding back as much as possible for upgrades next year. I'm guessing they'll stick with the current pricing scheme as it seems to be working for them. All of which are not that amazing. My 9 month old G1 has a 3.2mp autofocus camera, a compass, and speech recognition, and it even has an amazing thing called HSUPA already, as well as an even more "innovative" "feature" called "multitasking". I can listen to streaming web radio via imeem AND do other things like "browsing the web" at the same time. No, Apple is CERTAINLY holding back features. They just know that their customer base prefers to remain ignorant to the rest of the market. Finally someone has seen the light.
I have no beef with the iPhone persay, it's a functioning PDA device - BUT...
if Apple is supposed to be this innovative, bleeding edge of technology company - then why didn't all these features come out in the first gen? I mean, in my opinion, if I were Apple, I would have put off the release date of the first gen until I could get some of the more basic features worked out (such as multi-tasking, copy and paste) so that I could blow Windows Mobile and Android out of the water by releasing the first version of an operating system that surpasses what is currently in the industry. It only makes sense from a monetary and popularity stand point, if your OS kicks ass and performs better than everyone else...who do you think everyone will flock to? In my ultimate opinion Apple really shot themselves in the foot when they decided to *tightly* integrate the online store with the device - to the point that Steve Jobs can REMOVE apps from your device.
If Apple made the OS open source, free SDK, and didn't require you to purchase a license to distribute your applications - I would seriously have an iPhone in my hands right now. | |
|
 jmn1207Premium
join:2000-07-19
Ashburn, VA
1 edit | Apple Will Revolutionize Uploading I'm sure we will see a hip new iPhone commercial 20 times or more during the next "American Idol" show advertising an innovative new concept from Apple. I can just picture it now: "Send file, file sent, send file, file sent...hmmm....even my grandmother could appreciate this new feature of the iPhone 3GSE."  | |
| Reviews:
 ·Acanac
| Umm, no The most likely reason for the slow upload is battery life. The iPhone has always had barely ok battery life. This is due to the fact that it Apple has to juggle with a slim form factor that users have been used to for a while now. Adding in the necessary hardware for HSUPA would have eaten battery life and they would have been unable to maintain it at acceptable levels.
There is no way around this limitation unless a new battery technology makes its appearance. | |
| | kaila
join:2000-10-11
Lincolnshire, IL | Re: Umm, no Makes sense, but I wonder if this was an AT&T request. | |
| | |  TimePremium
join:2003-07-05
 ·Cox HSI
| Re: Umm, no said by kaila:Makes sense, but I wonder if this was an AT&T request. AT&T isn't the only carrier that uses iPhones.
--
"If it can't be done with brains, it can't be done with hours" - Clarence "Kelly" Johnson | |
| | | | kaila
join:2000-10-11
Lincolnshire, IL | Re: Umm, no Ack! I knew that. | |
|
|  Romney2012Defeat Obama 2012-Chg we can believe inPremium
join:2002-03-03
USA
kudos:4
1 edit | given the phone's primary function is to upload video -- but maybe that will be a selling point of next year's inevitable model. I doubt most see the iPhone's primary purpose as "uploading video". Most see it as accessing the internet and oh say making phone calls.
But that aside, I suspect most uploading of video would be done over the WiFi connection when a person gets access at home or work where WiFi is ubiquitous.
--
My BLOG .. .. Internet News .. .. My Web Page | |
| | | | Yea, and copy and paste ate up so much battery life they had to wait until last month when battery technology was good enough to support the needed power. | |
| | | | people have been working on battery tech constantly. We're up to 500+mhz phones. The whole "hspda is going to be so fast" was just a garner to up investments/milk things before they release a crappy phone.
aka newsflash: iphones aren't that amazing, and now they're getting less amazing. | |
| | tiger72SexaT duorPPremium
join:2001-03-28
Saint Louis, MO
kudos:1 | Then how do other manufacturers get it to work? | |
|
| | More strain Very surprised to see a Sirius/XM app for the iPhone too, this should put some additional strain on the network.
I think I'm gonna become an ISP, buy a 56K line, oversubscribe it by *alot*, and when my customers complain, I'll just tell them to deal with it. | |
| | | | | | said by expert007:Very surprised to see a Sirius/XM app for the iPhone too, this should put some additional strain on the network. I think I'm gonna become an ISP, buy a 56K line, oversubscribe it by *alot*, and when my customers complain, I'll just tell them to deal with it. Actually you just need a T1 and using math:
1.5Mbs * 1024 / 8 = 192Kbps
Dial-up speed = ~5Kbps
192/5 = ~40 dial-up users max
If you wanted to be greedy you could just stick 100 people on it, charge them $10/month and you have just paid for 2 T1s and then some. | |
| | | DarkLogixPremium
join:2008-10-23
Baytown, TX
kudos:3 | Re: More strain I think your math is a bit off
a T1 is only 1.5Mbit not Mbyte
and is actually exacly 1.544*1024=1581.056Kbit/sec
Dialup=48kbit
so 1581.056/48= 32.938 Dial-up connections
and with QOS you could set it so that everyone would get atleast 1Kbit/sec then sell it to 1000 people at $10/month and then expand a few times and you could have a T3 paid for all to your self | |
| | | | | | Re: More strain said by DarkLogix:I think your math is a bit off a T1 is only 1.5Mbit not Mbyte and is actually exacly 1.544*1024=1581.056Kbit/sec Dialup=48kbit so 1581.056/48= 32.938 Dial-up connections and with QOS you could set it so that everyone would get atleast 1Kbit/sec then sell it to 1000 people at $10/month and then expand a few times and you could have a T3 paid for all to your self Actually I am pretty sure my math is right:
The theoretical limit for dial-up is 56 kilobits per second.
56kilobits / 8 bits per byte = 7 kilobytes per second (theoretical max).
A T1 is 1.5 megabits per second, that is 1.5 * 1024 or 1536 kilobits per second.
Converting that to kilobytes - 1536 kilobits / 8 bits per byte = 192 kilobytes per second
(All theoretical maxes of course)
Theoretically:
If you didn't want to oversell *too* badly:
192 kilobytes (T1 bandwidth) / 7 (dial-up bandwidth) = ~27 users
So, you can probably safely bump that to 40 without much problems.
I think you just got confused because I was converting to kilobytes instead of staying with kilobits.
In other words I believe we are just saying the same thing, but you are just thinking more evil. You should be a CEO.
Now I'm hungry.... | |
|
 dmolaviPremium
join:2005-04-11
Sewell, NJ | How about.. a user replaceable battery? jeez...that's reason #1 I won't get an iphone. this is the only mass-marketed device that I can think of ATM that doesn't allow the user to replace the battery. yeah, it's a source of revenue for apple, but i'm sure it's driving away more customers than the money it's making from charging for this "service".
oh, and ditch AT&T.
--
NukedGallery.net
TheMolavis.com | |
| |
See 18 replies to this post | |
 Elite
join:2002-10-03
Orange, CT | Apple apple apple... Apple and AT&T are a class act.
The new 3G chip in the 3G S enables HSDPA 7.2, but AT&T has only just begun rolling out HSDPA 7.2 in a small portion of their markets.
AT&T's HSDPA 7.2 upgrades aren't expected to be completed until December 2010. In 2011, they're rolling out LTE.
By the time all their markets are on HSDPA 7.2, you might as well just go buy an LTE phone... oh wait, LTE upgrades are going to take 2 years too.
You would think Apple would've put HSUPA in the fucking thing, considering they took the time to upgrade the HSDPA...
You would assume the two would go hand-in-hand.
Oh well, better luck next year. | |
| | | | Re: Apple apple apple... said by Elite:You would think Apple would've put HSUPA in the fucking thing, considering they took the time to upgrade the HSDPA... You would assume the two would go hand-in-hand. Oh well, better luck next year. Anybody that buys Apple products would completely disagree with that statement. Of course Apple didn't include it. That's the shiny new feature to get us to upgrade next year.
Welcome to Apple.
--
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a LOT of inquisitive idiots" | |
| |  mlernerPremium
join:2000-11-25
Nepean, ON
kudos:5
1 edit | The iPhone has nothing to do with AT&T's network. We've had HSDPA 7.2 in Canada nationwide since December before the 3G S. It's AT&T's fault they don't upgrade their network. | |
|
bigboy
join:2000-12-04
Palo Alto, CA | Obvious what Apple does Apple targets price points and then fits the features within the price point. Apparently flash, HSDPA, processor, magnometer, 3MP camera and RAM prices dropped enough to fit in the $199/$299 price points.
Yes, you can get a pony, but only if you're willing to pay up for it. Apparently Apple sees the market at accepting no more than $299 every two years. | |
| | |
Prespd
join:2004-03-10
Wyoming, MI | On the way to China So I was on my way to China last month and met a guy on the van from Hong Kong to Shenzhen that worked for Foxconn. He worked on the iphone. He wouldn't share shit with me.
On this trip where I just arrived on Sunday night in HK, on my way to Shenzhen again, I met a guy who works for a third party.
If his company's hopes are right, you might see an integrated micro projector in a future model. The thing would run on lasers in red, green, and blue I think. I'd be happy to share my knowledge of what company it is, but that wouldn't be right.
Just as a disclaimer, I work for a battery company that makes cylindrical cells. We don't and will never supply to Apple for technical reasons. Battery tech is improving in Li-ion and li-polymer at breakneck speed. Most of it is BS, but there are some guys out there doing some really good work. | |
| |  NOCManMacChatterPremium
join:2004-09-30
Colorado Springs, CO | 3g customers screwed If they're migrating to HSxPA then there's no incentive for AT&T to upgrade their UMTS network more than it is now. Anything new will be HSxPA compatible rather than their current 3g tech as far as towers go.
--
Play a Death Knight?
www.theebonhold.com | |
| | tiger72SexaT duorPPremium
join:2001-03-28
Saint Louis, MO
kudos:1 Reviews:
·T-Mobile US
| Re: 3g customers screwed HSPA (HSUPA and HSDPA) are UMTS upgrades - not alternative technology. ATT's been on HSPA for a couple years now. They're just upgrading to a newer release...
It's like EDGE on GSM. If your phone is just GPRS capable, you'll continue transmitting at GPRS speeds - you just can't use EDGE upgrades.
--
"What makes us omniscient? Have we a record of omniscience? ...If we can't persuade nations with comparable values of the merit of our cause, we'd better reexamine our reasoning."
-United States Secretary of Defense (1961-1968) Robert S. McNamara | |
|
| |
|
|
