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iPhone Complaints Not Hurting AT&T's Wallet
No tethering, MMS, reliable connection? So what?
by Karl Bode Thursday 23-Jul-2009 tags: business · telco · wireless
AT&T released their second quarter earnings this morning, the numbers bolstered by the launch of the iPhone 3GS. AT&T says more than 2.4 million iPhones were activated in the quarter, with more than a third of those new customers. Despite all of the recent complaints about AT&T wireless service, AT&T's already low churn (customer defection) rate dropped even further to 1.09 percent.

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Users have been hard on AT&T lately for a litany of issues. Delays in MMS functionality and iPhone tethering, the carrier's tendency to cripple high-bandwidth applications, continued complaints of poor 3G network performance in some cities and most recently visual voicemail outages -- have solidified AT&T's reputation as the weak link in the AT&T and Apple super union.

AT&T recently insisted to us that they are listening to user complaints, and CEO Randall Stephenson issued a statement today saying that upgrades to 7.2Mbps HSPA is "under way." But AT&T's speed at fixing certain issues (like congestion in NYC) has felt glacial. Techcrunch went so far as to recently call AT&T a "Big, Steaming Heap of Failure."

But for all the complaints about the carrier's missteps, AT&T's coffers don't seem to be feeling a thing. Including both SMS and Internet access, the carrier not only saw lower turnover, but a 37.2 percent increase in wireless data revenues on the quarter. AT&T's net income did drop from $3.8 billion to $3.2 billion, though that was largely due to landline defections, and money owed Apple they'll make up on long-term customer contracts.

In other words, for all the complaints -- consumers aren't voting with their wallets and defecting in any great volume. Of course many of them are under long-term contract and/or willing to suffer through AT&T's problems to retain the iPhone, which is why AT&T's working very hard to extend their exclusive distribution agreement with Apple that ends next year. If AT&T can't extend that contract, the check for poor service will come due.

As for more terrestrial affairs, AT&T says they added 248,000 new U-Verse customers, bringing the grand total to 1.6 million VDSL lines in service. AT&T actually slowed deployment of their "next-gen" broadband upgrade this year. While that's not a particularly good call given Comcast's rabid expansion of DOCSIS 3.0 speeds, AT&T does appear to be a little closer to VDSL2 line bonding, which will improve both U-Verse speed and reach.

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Transmaster
Don't Blame Me I Voted For Bill and Opus

join:2001-06-20
Cheyenne, WY

2 edits

Got them by the short hairs

Of course the churm rate will be low. If you are a fanatical Apple fan where are you going to go to use your iPhone. When AT&T looses it's exclusive deal with Apple this is going to change. iPhone users are going to go to the providers that gives them the best service and ability to fully use all of the thing an iPhone can do. Right now AT&T can screw over their iPhone people and there is very little they can do about it.
--
I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man's reasoning powers are not above the monkey's.
- Mark Twain in Eruption

cameronsfx

join:2009-01-08
Panama City, FL

Re: Got them by the short hairs

said by Transmaster:

Of course the churm rate will be low. If you are a fanatical Apple fan where are you going to go to use your iPhone. When AT&T looses it exclusive deal with Apple this is going to change. iPhone users are going to go to the providers that gives them the best service and ability to fully use all of the thing an iPhone can do. Right now AT&T and screw over their iPhone people and there is very little they can do about it.
Yep, they'd lose 5-8 million customers in a month if the iPhone deal doesn't get renewed. Wonder if TMobile could handle all those new customers in a month?

There are a lot of iPhones on TMobile.

Simply put, Apple screwed AT&T on the price for exclusivity, since VZ said too expensive, and Apple fans like their stuff to work anywhere. AT&T made that up by screwing the customer. The latter won't be forgotten. Eventually, either the fad will wear off or Apple will allow any carrier to use them. I think Apple would have made more money if they did anyway.
iansltx

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Re: Got them by the short hairs

Actually, unless the new iPhone had AWS built in, T-Mobile might *not* be able to handle a huge influx of customers. They had to go to AWS 3G because they were running out of capacity in certain markets.

I'd say Verizon is a much more likely candidate for the iPhone still. though Sprint's network has plenty of capacity for such a device.

en102
Canadian, eh?

join:2001-01-26
Valencia, CA

Re: Got them by the short hairs

Sprint/Verizon depends on a new chipset and programming for CDMA/EVDO (and possibly LTE). It would require effort in part by Apple. For T-Mobile, an updated chip revision would be able to make use of AWS. The biggest effort needed is by Apple.

Apple's needs to make the leap in getting off of a single build (physically).
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hakujin

join:2004-02-19
Chicago, IL

Re: Got them by the short hairs

said by en102:

Sprint/Verizon depends on a new chipset and programming for CDMA/EVDO (and possibly LTE). It would require effort in part by Apple. For T-Mobile, an updated chip revision would be able to make use of AWS. The biggest effort needed is by Apple.

Apple's needs to make the leap in getting off of a single build (physically).
Not only that, but many t-mo customers are content with iPhone and 2.5G... w/ a little effort, many are using Edge w/ discontinued t-zones, meaning iPhone data for $5-6 a month... a far cry from $30 plus T-Mo services are cheaper in general.
Crypto_Bug

join:2001-05-31
Torrington, CT
I agree with you. I have an Iphone with a contract that end tomorrow and I have decided that even though I love the Iphone I am getting rid of my AT&T service tomorrow. I have been a customer of theirs for 12 years and their services has gone down hill rapidly in the last couple of years. Having an iPhone isnt worth dealing with AT&T.
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Re: Got them by the short hairs

said by Crypto_Bug:

I agree with you. I have an Iphone with a contract that end tomorrow and I have decided that even though I love the Iphone I am getting rid of my AT&T service tomorrow. I have been a customer of theirs for 12 years and their services has gone down hill rapidly in the last couple of years. Having an iPhone isnt worth dealing with AT&T.
Keep the iPhone, unlock it, switch to TMO.

You'll be 3g-less tho =\
--
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ptrowski
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Re: Got them by the short hairs

I will be putting my unlocked iPhone up on Ebay soon should anyone be interested.

Pirate515
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1 edit
said by tiger72:

Keep the iPhone, unlock it, switch to TMO.

You'll be 3G-less tho =\
Since his contract expires this year, he probably has the original iPhone, which is 3G-less anyway.

The folks who got iPhone 3G, which came first came out last year, are still stuck with AT&T until next summer (depending on exactly when they got theirs).

I'm not sure how practical and/or costly it would be at this point for T-Mobile to implement at least one of the frequencies that iPhone uses for 3G data, but I hope that they are paying attention to this. They may have a golden opportunity here to snag some iPhone users if Apple dumps AT&T.
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timuze

join:2008-05-03

Re: Got them by the short hairs

You can actually get out of the 2 year deals at 18 months without much trouble

Pirate515
Premium
join:2001-01-22
Brooklyn, NY

Re: Got them by the short hairs

said by timuze:

You can actually get out of the 2 year deals at 18 months without much trouble.
I know that AT&T usually lets you upgrade at subsidized price if you are 18+ months into your contract provided that you will agree to another contract. Not so sure about letting you get out completely. On the other hand, the ETF is pro-rated, and it goes down by $5 for every month that you are into your contract. So, $175 - 18 x $5 = $85 which you will still owe them if you jump ship at that point in time. Perhaps if you have great negotiating skills and you get a friendly rep you can talk them into waiving it completely.
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RARPSL

join:1999-12-08
Suffern, NY

Re: Got them by the short hairs

said by Pirate515:

On the other hand, the ETF is pro-rated, and it goes down by $5 for every month that you are into your contract. So, $175 - 18 x $5 = $85 which you will still owe them if you jump ship at that point in time.
That is not being prorated - it is being discounted. A prorated ETF for a 24 month contract that is reduced by $5 a month would be only $120. If it starts at $175 the correct PRO-RATED reduction per month is $7.30.
CatchingSpy

join:2002-09-08
I am one of the consumers who left another carrier for an iPhone. When my contract is up I am leaving AT&T and the iPhone.
matrix3D

join:2006-09-27
Middletown, CT

Re: Got them by the short hairs

I must be one of the lucky ones. AT&T's service kicks ass everywhere I go in Connecticut. At my house alone, my fiance can barely get a signal and she has Verizon Wireless. With my iPhone 3G and AT&T, I have full 100% (5 bars) of 3G and I can't even remember the last time I had a dropped call.

NYlock78
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Paterson, NJ

Re: Got them by the short hairs

Im the same way. In NJ I have 100% 3G coverage everywhere but work due to being on the basement lvl with no windows =(

NYR 56
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Smithtown, NY

Re: Got them by the short hairs

My friend has an iPhone and although she has full bars and 3G service it doesn't meant it will actually work here in NYC. She's has 5 bars and the internet wouldn't even load and this isn't all that uncommon.

I used to have ATT and I switch to Sprint a year ago and absolutely love it. I get service in the hospital where no other carrier does so I don't ever plan on leaving them.

mrkevin
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That must be nice...

NOVA_Guy
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1 edit
said by Transmaster:

Right now AT&T can screw over their iPhone people and there is very little they can do about it.
It all depends upon what kind of "screwing" you're talking about here.

Price: You're absolutely right. You've got to pay their prices to play on their network.
Coverage: You're right again.
Crippling phones: Here is where your argument falls short. People can pretty easily jailbreak their phone and install applications that restore full functionality. For a mere $2, one can install a jailbroken application that will enable use of Slingbox, Joost, VoIP apps, 10mb+ downloads from the App Store, etc. using a 3G connection instead of requiring WiFi. It's amazing that just $2 can give you the ability to fully utilize the wireless bandwidth you're paying so dearly for every month...

I am looking forward to the time that Apple no longer has an exclusive deal with AT&T. When that day comes, I and my 5 lines will likely be moving to another carrier.
--
Trusting the Democrats to fix our economy and give us health care is like trusting the fox with keys to the henhouse, a brand new gas stove, and a pantry full of goodies for side dishes. In the end, all will be dead and nothing but lies will be told.
iansltx

join:2007-02-19
Golden, CO
kudos:2

Re: Got them by the short hairs

Here's your problem: you have to jailbreak to enable all that functionality, which should have been there in hte first place. Plus, you have to tread lightly or your jailbroken apps disappear with the next software update :/

NOVA_Guy
ObamaCare Kills Americans
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Re: Got them by the short hairs

Yes, I absolutely agree. These capabilities should have been included in the phone in the first place, and jailbreaking should not be necessary. I was just trying to point out that there are work-arounds for certain problems, if one is willing to put the time and effort forth to do it. (And honestly, jailbreaking doesn't take all that long to do, and isn't all that difficult with the apps out there that do it today.)
--
Trusting the Democrats to fix our economy and give us health care is like trusting the fox with keys to the henhouse, a brand new gas stove, and a pantry full of goodies for side dishes. In the end, all will be dead and nothing but lies will be told.

cameronsfx

join:2009-01-08
Panama City, FL
AT&T lost 921,000 residential landlines in the last quarter. Profits lower. Earnings dropped 15% for AT&T overall.

Simply put, the iPhone is bleeding AT&T. "AT&T subsidizes each new iPhone by hundreds of dollars, expecting to make the money back in service fees over a two-year contract. AT&T’s operating margin in wireless declined to 23.8 percent, from 25.5 percent a year ago."

This is proof that the iPhone is not the moneymaker AT&T thought. Apple, however, doesn't know what to do with the money. Even with a net 1.37 million new wireless customers, "AT&T ended the quarter with 79.6 million wireless subscribers, remaining in second place behind Verizon Wireless."

»www.nytimes.com/2009/07/24/busin···html?hpw

VZ wireless is still beating AT&T without the iPhone.
sonicmerlin

join:2009-05-24
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kudos:1

Re: AT&T Profits slide 15% in Quarter

Your conclusions are so illogical I don't even know how to begin arguing them.

The more customers they have, the more revenue they make, and the more profit they make. If they weren't making money off their customers they wouldn't be in the business of subsidizing and selling iPhones.

People abandoning dry-line DSL would abandon them whether or not AT&T's wireless sector existed or not.

And for the record, the iPhone deal has been hugely profitable for AT&T.

cameronsfx

join:2009-01-08
Panama City, FL

Re: AT&T Profits slide 15% in Quarter

said by sonicmerlin:

Your conclusions are so illogical I don't even know how to begin arguing them.

The more customers they have, the more revenue they make, and the more profit they make. If they weren't making money off their customers they wouldn't be in the business of subsidizing and selling iPhones.

People abandoning dry-line DSL would abandon them whether or not AT&T's wireless sector existed or not.

And for the record, the iPhone deal has been hugely profitable for AT&T.
Really? Here's the bottom line: "AT&T’s operating margin in wireless declined to 23.8 percent, from 25.5 percent a year ago." Operating margin is also a magic trick by accountants.

Mr Neutron
Looks like I picked the wrong week to
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said by cameronsfx:

AT&T lost 921,000 residential landlines in the last quarter. Profits lower. Earnings dropped 15% for AT&T overall.
Is that a record for AT&T losing landlines? That's nearly a million landlines.

Granted, I don't know how many people usually ditch their landlines every month, so for all I know, that could be average for them.
--
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cameronsfx

join:2009-01-08
Panama City, FL

Re: AT&T Profits slide 15% in Quarter

said by Mr Neutron:

said by cameronsfx:

AT&T lost 921,000 residential landlines in the last quarter. Profits lower. Earnings dropped 15% for AT&T overall.
Is that a record for AT&T losing landlines? That's nearly a million landlines.

Granted, I don't know how many people usually ditch their landlines every month, so for all I know, that could be average for them.
I think it was a record loss.
axiomatic

join:2006-08-23
Tomball, TX

Nanny nanny boo boo defense?

Is this actually the "nanny nanny boo boo... you can't touch me" defense from ATT we are reading here? Seriously ATT, fire the marketing team. You are not making any friends. You dropped two of my calls just this morning with your spotty 3G/Edge service.

Of course their "numbers" look good, they paid for exclusivity on the iphone. The lemmings will always outweigh the, what I'm sure ATT would label the "vocal minority."

Sky is blue, water is wet, paging Rick Romero.

Transmaster
Don't Blame Me I Voted For Bill and Opus

join:2001-06-20
Cheyenne, WY

1 edit

believe me.....

I understand where the iPhone people are coming from I have a iTouch and I find this device to be more then just an electronic do-dad that does stuff. If I was a iphone user I would really be pissed if I could not have full functionallity. When AT&T looses it exclusivity it will be like a dam breaking. Then we will hear AT&T whinning about how unfair it all is.
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- Mark Twain in Eruption

ptrowski
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Re: believe me.....

said by Transmaster:

I understand where the iPhone people are coming from I have a iTouch and I find this device to be more then just an electronic do-dad that does stuff. If I was a iphone user I would really be pissed if I could not have full functionallity. When AT&T looses it exclusivity it will be like a dam breaking. They we will hear AT&T whinning about how unfair it all is.
I am one of them. I went from a Touch to the iPhone and really like it, but the lack of MMS is really a pain. It's not the end of the world, but they should have had this from the beginning. I would send the picture via email to the phonenumber@mms.att.net email address but we found this morning that wasn't working so now I have to just email a picture to a regular email address.

Just a hassle.
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itguy05

join:2005-06-17

Blogosphere Bitches Wrong Again

Imagine that - Most are happy with AT&T, given the low churn rate.

The Blogosphere Bitches yet again show they are out of touch with reality.

Karl Bode
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Re: Blogosphere Bitches Wrong Again

Most are happy with AT&T
Most are happy with Apple, but locked under long-term contract. That doesn't equate to "happy with AT&T." If anything it speaks to how exclusivity deals provide carriers with a lot of leeway to stink up the joint with no repercussions...

Matt
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Re: Blogosphere Bitches Wrong Again

said by Karl Bode:

Most are happy with AT&T
Most are happy with Apple, but locked under long-term contract. That doesn't equate to "happy with AT&T." If anything it speaks to how exclusivity deals provide carriers with a lot of leeway to stink up the joint with no repercussions...
I agree. The iPhone is nice but I'd much rather have it on Sprint or Verizon as I have had much better experiences with both of those carriers. AT&T is cheaper than Verizon though, so saving a bit of money helps ease the pain of their very, umm, inconsistent network.

See 8 replies to this post

NOVA_Guy
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I agree 100%. I'm happy with my iPhone, but am less than satisfied with AT&T's network-- not to mention some of the shell games they've tried to play with their terms of service in the past. (Disallowing streaming media over anything but WiFi particularly comes to mind.)

Just an advance answer to folks who are thinking "No, no, AT&T was right. How badly could streaming media from all those iPhone users affect their network!": AT&T shouldn't have sold the service if they couldn't provide it. AT&T expects me to hold up my end of the contract by paying for service; I expect to receive usable service, and to be able to use it to its fullest potential, in return for payment. Expecting people to pay and not use is a one-sided unfair business model, yet it is what AT&T and other data providers seem to want to push these days.
--
Trusting the Democrats to fix our economy and give us health care is like trusting the fox with keys to the henhouse, a brand new gas stove, and a pantry full of goodies for side dishes. In the end, all will be dead and nothing but lies will be told.
itguy05

join:2005-06-17
quote:
Most are happy with Apple, but locked under long-term contract.
$175 to get out . You can easily recoup that cost by selling your phone. My wife did it with a lesser phone when she left Verizon so I don't see how an iPhone would command less.

Me? I've got both, Verizon courtesy of work and AT&T courtesy of my iPhone. I forward my VZ phone to AT&T to have good service.

Pirate515
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1 edit
said by Karl Bode:

Most are happy with Apple, but locked under long-term contract. That doesn't equate to "happy with AT&T". If anything, it speaks to how exclusivity deals provide carriers with a lot of leeway to stink up the joint with no repercussions...
Exactly. The only iPhone users who have the opportunity to dump AT&T right now are the early adopters of the original iPhone as their contracts should be expiring this summer, giving them the opportunity to jump the AT&T ship with no penalties.

AFAIK, there were a lot of folks who held out on getting iPhone due to lack of 3G, and hence purchased one last summer. These folks are stuck with AT&T until some time next summer, unless they are willing to pony up the ETF. If AT&T doesn't clean up their act, it would be interesting to see what happens next summer when these folks' contracts run out. Will they stay with AT&T or will they run like hell elsewhere in droves? Of course, by then Apple will most likely have its mind made up on whether or not to continue with AT&T as well.
--

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Re: Blogosphere Bitches Wrong Again

said by Pirate515:

If AT&T doesn't clean up their act, it would be interesting to see what happens next summer when these folks' contracts run out. Will they stay with AT&T or will they run like hell elsewhere in droves?
I would definitely be in that "run like hell" camp, because as much as I like the iPhone, the AT&T network's awful 3G coverage and general problems just don't make it worth it. My GF would kill me if she had to give up her iPhone though, so I'm stuck for a while I would imagine.
sonicmerlin

join:2009-05-24
Cleveland, OH
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Of Note

I'm particularly interested in the used cell phone market once carrier exclusivity is banned. I'm too cheap to pay for a brand new one at full price, so I'll be delighted if I can find an old EDGE version that I can use on the internet with Wi-Fi.

Also, we had better see the monthly rates go down.

Most of all, I'm eagerly anticipating the FCC's report on the state of competition in the wireless industry. I'm looking forward to a massive smackdown of the carriers.

Transmaster
Don't Blame Me I Voted For Bill and Opus

join:2001-06-20
Cheyenne, WY

Re: Of Note

said by sonicmerlin:

I'm particularly interested in the used cell phone market once carrier exclusivity is banned. I'm too cheap to pay for a brand new one at full price, so I'll be delighted if I can find an old EDGE version that I can use on the internet with Wi-Fi.

Also, we had better see the monthly rates go down.

Most of all, I'm eagerly anticipating the FCC's report on the state of competition in the wireless industry. I'm looking forward to a massive smackdown of the carriers.
Don't hold your breath, The FCC will white wash this issue along with everything else they do.
--
I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man's reasoning powers are not above the monkey's.
- Mark Twain in Eruption

tiger72
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2 edits
said by sonicmerlin:

I'm particularly interested in the used cell phone market once carrier exclusivity is banned. I'm too cheap to pay for a brand new one at full price, so I'll be delighted if I can find an old EDGE version that I can use on the internet with Wi-Fi.

Also, we had better see the monthly rates go down.

Most of all, I'm eagerly anticipating the FCC's report on the state of competition in the wireless industry. I'm looking forward to a massive smackdown of the carriers.
...
»cell-phones.shop.ebay.com/items/···.c0.m282

The used (GSM) cell phone market is alive and VERY well. Until my G1, the last 2 phones I got off ebay.

Of course, if you chose a CDMA network, you're SOL.
--
"What makes us omniscient? Have we a record of omniscience? ...If we can't persuade nations with comparable values of the merit of our cause, we'd better reexamine our reasoning."
-United States Secretary of Defense (1961-1968) Robert S. McNamara
sonicmerlin

join:2009-05-24
Cleveland, OH
kudos:1

Re: Of Note

Not enough suppliers right now so cost of used items are still too high.

JasonOD

@comcast.net

This is Apple's fault

These phones (if you can call them that) would crush any network out there, not just AT&T. Other handset makers actually produce handsets and features that compliment the carriers network- not over-run it. This is why you don't see those 8MP camera's that are also phones from Sony-Ericcson here in the states.

Yeah, At&T shoulders some responsibility for getting in bed with Apple in the first place, but Apple has really taken advantage of things with the app store and the myriad of network crushing applications. Ok, so they've kept slingplayer and a few others off, but that's clearly not enough.

See 28 replies to this post

Transmaster
Don't Blame Me I Voted For Bill and Opus

join:2001-06-20
Cheyenne, WY

AT&T PR person for iPhones


Wanda, Ugly Girl In Living Color
I'z Got you, and I'z going to keep you.
sonicmerlin

join:2009-05-24
Cleveland, OH
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Re: AT&T PR person for iPhones

I just gagged. Even AT&T isn't this bad.

Mr Neutron
Looks like I picked the wrong week to
Premium
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said by Transmaster:

I'z Got you, and I'z going to keep you.
Wasn't one of her lines "I'll rock your world?"
--
We could use the £5,000 to buy a spoon. And then fill up with ice cream.

Transmaster
Don't Blame Me I Voted For Bill and Opus

join:2001-06-20
Cheyenne, WY

Re: AT&T PR person for iPhones

said by Mr Neutron:

said by Transmaster:

I'z Got you, and I'z going to keep you.
Wasn't one of her lines "I'll rock your world?"
yes it was, it came out as I'll wock you warld
--
I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man's reasoning powers are not above the monkey's.
- Mark Twain in Eruption

small_fry_

@mycingular.net

Re: AT&T PR person for iPhones

haha you guys are calling him a her...

pnh102
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Duh

Did anyone thing that AT&T would be affected by the loud whining of a small handful of people online?
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djrobx

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Sounds worse than it actually is

From the article, people are making gripes, but most aren't the sort you'd cancel service over.

Delays in MMS functionality and iPhone tethering
iPhone users have lived without these things for over 2 years. Does it stink that AT&T can't get their act together faster? Sure. But, it's coming.

the carrier's tendency to cripple high-bandwidth applications
What US carrier doesn't do this when they have the opportunity? The "jesus provider" Verizon certainly has never had a problem crippling things when its in their best interests.

continued complaints of poor 3G network performance
Of the gripes, this is the most valid. Still, I've seen significant improvements in 3G performance over the last year. I definitely think they've got more work to do. I'm glad people are complaining - it ought to help motivate AT&T to work on it. Really though, it's not anything new. It mostly boils down to tower proximity. When I've got good signal my data performance is great.

most recently visual voicemail outages
I'm sure you're aware of the tethering hack that's available for the iPhone. All you have to do is browse to a certain web page on the phone, and you can turn on tethering. What people didn't figure out right away is that there's a side effect to doing this that's not immediately noticeable - Visual Voicemail appears to work normally, but it stops alerting you to new calls.

So let's recap: People find tethering loophole that impairs Visual Voicemail. Shortly after, there are reports of visual voicemail outages. Do you think that's a coincidence? I don't.
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See 13 replies to this post

Hpower
Roflmao

join:2000-06-08
Glendale, CA
Reviews:
·Charter

1 edit

Stuck

Iphone users have nowhere else to go to, so they are forced to suck it up. Soon that may change and I am sure AT&T will go crying saying how their revenue now all of a sudden dropped by like 30%. Then we'll see how well they listen to customers. Right now they can just say whatever to us and we have no choice. AT&T sucks. So glad I didn't get DSL through them. Would've taken months to get it installed and problems sorted out probably.

I laugh at every time I see my friends with their iphones sit there waiting for applications to load. Oh boy, it takes forever for pages to load. Might as well go take a shower to wait for a youtube video to load. Oh yea, they always have to carry their charger with them also since the battery is just useless for the iphone pretty much. So glad I didn't bother with the iphone. Glad I waited to see what was going to happen. I am happy with my EV@ touch phone from verizon
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ender7074

join:2006-11-21
Saint Louis, MO
Reviews:
·AT&T Southeast

Re: Stuck

I have the Touch too, and I love it, but I wouldn't go bragging about battery power. I gotta charge mine up almost everyday as do many others with this phone. Also, the Touch is not really a smartphone on the same level as an Iphone. You really can't compare the two. Maybe the BB Storm an Iphone would be a good comparison but the Touch is just a more advanced phone, not a smartphone. And, just for the reccord, you couldnt give me an Iphone or any other Apple product so dont think im some Jobs fanboi drooling over anything that comes out of their R&D group.
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sonicmerlin

join:2009-05-24
Cleveland, OH
kudos:1
The Touch isn't a smartphone. It doesn't even have Wi-Fi.

It's a horribly crippled "multimedia machine", Verizon's euphemism for "sucky phone that no one in the rest of the world wants but we can sell for a premium in the US."

trparky
Apple... YUM
Premium,MVM
join:2000-05-24
Cleveland, OH
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Time Warner Cable
·Time Warner VOIP
·AT&T U-Verse

I have no issues...

I have no issues in the Greater Cleveland, Ohio area. I always get five bars of service, no dropped calls, and the data service is great. Yes, the data service is a bit slow but way more adequate for what I use my iPhone for.
--
Tom

gigahurtz
Premium
join:2001-10-20
Palm Coast, FL
Reviews:
·RoadRunner Cable

Re: I have no issues...

said by trparky:

I have no issues in the Greater Cleveland, Ohio area. I always get five bars of service, no dropped calls, and the data service is great. Yes, the data service is a bit slow but way more adequate for what I use my iPhone for.
Consider yourself lucky. I wish I had 3G coverage, or even just decent EDGE service.

Nightfall
My Goal Is To Deny Yours
Premium,MVM
join:2001-08-03
Grand Rapids, MI
Reviews:
·Site5.com
·Comcast
·Callcentric

1 edit
said by trparky:

I have no issues in the Greater Cleveland, Ohio area. I always get five bars of service, no dropped calls, and the data service is great. Yes, the data service is a bit slow but way more adequate for what I use my iPhone for.
I am glad to hear I am not the only one who feels this way. My Iphone service just works and it works very well. I also have noticed a little bit of a slowdown with the data network as of late, but I still think the phone and service are excellent.

Once again, its all about location. Some locations are better than others thats for sure when it comes to a wireless signal, data throughput, and so on.

There are some people that still fail to comprehend that. After years of being told that (insert cable/dsl provider here) doesn't suck, its the service in the area, some people just can't understand it. Which is why some providers have poor service in some locations but excellent in others. Same goes with wireless providers.
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jgkolt
Premium
join:2004-02-21
Lakewood, OH

Verizon iPhone and uVerse competitiveness

We all can reliably guess that that once at&t contract is over with apple, the iPhone with LTE will be coming to verizon.

Next subject uVerse.
When uverse came out to this area they were cheaper and the new kid on the block. I signed up and it was 92.30 including taxes a month. Now if I was to sign up again (which you have to do when you move, no transferring service) it would be $116 (not including taxes. That is about $26 more a month price hike(due to new receiver fees, year long promos) without much change in services. Or for 109 (cox cable)you can get the same tv experience and 25mbps internet. it is now cheaper and faster internet to go with the competitive.
ravensfan55

join:2008-06-16
Severna Park, MD

Re: Verizon iPhone and uVerse competitiveness

Just because it has LTE doesn't mean it will work completely with Verizon. LTE is data-only, which means Verizon will continue to use CDMA for voice and AT&T will continue to use GSM/UMTS for voice, until a VoIP over LTE standard can be ratified and implemented.

jgkolt
Premium
join:2004-02-21
Lakewood, OH

Re: Verizon iPhone and uVerse competitiveness

Regardless on the underlying technology used for voice the device logically makes sense for verizon to launch with the LTE network officially or to bring on a popular phone to strengthen offering for LTE on vzw.

Interesting note though about voice over LTE.

tiger72
SexaT duorP
Premium
join:2001-03-28
Saint Louis, MO
kudos:1
Reviews:
·T-Mobile US
·AT&T DSL Service
said by ravensfan55:

LTE is data-only, which means Verizon will continue to use CDMA for voice and AT&T will continue to use GSM/UMTS for voice, until a VoIP over LTE standard can be ratified and implemented.
They're working on the VoIP over LTE standard right now. By the time VZW rolls out LTE, they'll likely be using VoIP.
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Samsonian

join:2007-06-15

Re: Verizon iPhone and uVerse competitiveness

T-Mobile/Deutsche Telekom is currently the only operator supporting Voice over LTE via Generic Access (VoLGA). Every other operator going to deploy LTE appears to be expecting to use circuit switched fallback on their existing 2G/3G networks for voice and SMS/MMS, and of course data as well, where LTE isn't deployed.

This is hardly ideal for a number of reasons: CS fallback is only a short term fix, operators would rather offer VoIP from the get go of LTE launch, and operators want to begin reducing load and investments in old networks as they build out a new one.

The reason this is happening is because IP Multimedia Subsystem (IMS), won't be fully ready for primetime for some years to come. Light Reading has covered this issue pretty well.

spike010101
Premium
join:2003-11-28
Lacey, WA

blah blah blah.

Yes people think that Verizon "may" get the iPhone next, but you never really know. Verizon uses CMDA, which is not the global standard, so why would anyone sign up to get a phone that will only work in 1 or 2 countries instead of worldwide? It just sounds ridiculous.

And if this phone was to drop onto Verizon or any other network I have no doubt that there would be the same kind of problems and the same people complaining of how Verizon is so horrible and how they cant wait to get to AT&T.

In reality, I just don't see Apple jumping onto a non-standard technology because it would cause them to have to come up with two prototypes, 1 for gsm (every other country), and Verizon. It would cost more money and I just do not see it happening.

This delay in the contracts is just to generate hype like say "Paula Abdul" and her contract with Idol.
jjeffeory

join:2002-12-04
USA

Re: blah blah blah.

said by spike010101:

Yes people think that

In reality, I just don't see Apple jumping onto a non-standard technology...
That's funny. The were on non-standard tech for decades. They also use display-port instead of DVI or HDMI. Apple is not afraid to use non-standard technology in their products.

RiseAbove
Premium
join:2004-01-30
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS

Re: blah blah blah.

said by jjeffeory:

said by spike010101:

Yes people think that

In reality, I just don't see Apple jumping onto a non-standard technology...
That's funny. The were on non-standard tech for decades. They also use display-port instead of DVI or HDMI. Apple is not afraid to use non-standard technology in their products.
They went with Displayport because it has no licensing fees like HDMI has. It has a little bit more bandwidth than HDMI but mainly they went with it because they dont have to pay anybody to use it.
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Looking to get into Avaya telco if you might be in that field hit me up I have a lot of questions.
Trollhawk

join:2005-05-28

AT&T/Apple deal successful, despite haters' wishes

People just love bashing large companies, whether it be AT&T, Apple, or any other large corporation. There sure is a lot of bashing of the companies that make a site like this possible in the first place. Talk about a bunch of negative spin on a positive story. Besides the cold, hard numbers that are undeniable, I didn't read a single positive thing in this article, explaining why the AT&T/Apple deal may be as succcessful as it is. Instead, it's a bunch of negative information, that attempts to make the positive numbers look like an anomaly.

The fact of the matter, is that people with actual iPhones, who have major complaints, are by far the vocal minority. Reading the articles on this site, one would think there were far more unhappy AT&T iPhone customers than there are. The reality is that there are more complainers without iPhones, then there are with them. As for the actual iPhone users with complaints, most of them don't consider the downsides to outweigh the benefits of the phone, and the numbers prove that. People constantly belittle the phone, citing bullet-point feature lists, and ignore the iPhone's biggest selling-point, its UI. The user experience of the iPhone is so good that, for most users, it easily outweighs the small number of features that it currently lacks.

As for MMS and tethering, AT&T is temporarily in a no-win situation. People are already complaining about dropped calls, yet these same people are also complaining about lack of MMS/tethering. If AT&T's network already can't handle the dramatic increase in data-use, stemming from the iPhone, how do expect it to perform with added MMS/tethering functionality? People just need to wait for a network upgrade. People act like these things happen overnight. As the saying goes, "Nothing is impossible to the man who doesn't have to do it himself." People can't even be sure the situation would be any better with any other U.S. carrier.

Lastly, haters always harp on being locked into a service contract. Why is there no mention of the unsubsidized iPhone option? Subsidized service contracts have existed long before Apple ever thought to build a phone, but it's just now becoming an issue. People can't have their cake and eat it, too.

Gbcue
Almost P.E.
Premium
join:2001-09-30
Santa Rosa, CA
kudos:8
Reviews:
·AT&T U-Verse

Re: AT&T/Apple deal successful, despite haters' wishes

said by Trollhawk:

Lastly, haters always harp on being locked into a service contract. Why is there no mention of the unsubsidized iPhone option? Subsidized service contracts have existed long before Apple ever thought to build a phone, but it's just now becoming an issue. People can't have their cake and eat it, too.
Because that wasn't available until late.

And then $699.99 for it... AND it's not unlocked. AND AT&T won't give you the unlock code for it.
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jjeffeory

join:2002-12-04
USA

Re: AT&T/Apple deal successful, despite haters' wishes

said by Gbcue:

said by Trollhawk:

Lastly, haters always harp on being locked into a service contract. Why is there no mention of the unsubsidized iPhone option? Subsidized service contracts have existed long before Apple ever thought to build a phone, but it's just now becoming an issue. People can't have their cake and eat it, too.
Because that wasn't available until late.

And then $699.99 for it... AND it's not unlocked. AND AT&T won't give you the unlock code for it.
...and at&t will STILL want a contract for the unsubsidized phone.

RiseAbove
Premium
join:2004-01-30
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS

Re: AT&T/Apple deal successful, despite haters' wishes

said by jjeffeory:

said by Gbcue:

said by Trollhawk:

Lastly, haters always harp on being locked into a service contract. Why is there no mention of the unsubsidized iPhone option? Subsidized service contracts have existed long before Apple ever thought to build a phone, but it's just now becoming an issue. People can't have their cake and eat it, too.
Because that wasn't available until late.

And then $699.99 for it... AND it's not unlocked. AND AT&T won't give you the unlock code for it.
...and at&t will STILL want a contract for the unsubsidized phone.
I was working for ATT when the first iphone came out they did that crap also and everybody in the room, during training for the new device, shook their head in amazement that ATT would pull that kind of crap. If I'm not mistaken they finally backed down and didn't require it but so far on the 3GS I haven't seen anything saying they are going that route. I'm still amazed they can do something like that.
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Looking to get into Avaya telco if you might be in that field hit me up I have a lot of questions.

FastiBook

join:2003-01-08
Newtown, PA

I feel betrayed & lied to by ATT.

I may sue them.

No, i'm not a crackpot. I was waiting for a credit for several things, that were supposed to make this month's bill be in the back 150 bucks, but instead, i receive a bill, asking for 178 dollars..... They also confirmed with several phone calls that my text plan was $20/mo for unlimited. Now it's magically $30. So i'm paying $30 for data, and $30 for text... Even my last bill (the first one with iPhone) had texting at $20, so i'm not sure what the hell is going on.

And of course, there are no notes on any of this, it's just like magic that i randomly call in expecting a credit of a sizable amount, i must be a moron that needs the billing explained to him, sorry but i've had these folks since 2005 and i know how to read their bills.

The guy says "if you want a refund you have to go through our e-commerce dept". This was all documented, in notes on the account, i even called and asked why my LAST bill was $2xx.xx vs in the black... They explained "oh, sorry sir, it looks like they have several credits that will hit next billing period", the reason you were denied free exchange of equipment (i had asked just to ask to see if we could get the 3Gs not that i really cared if i got a yes or no) is because there was a limit on the credits issued for your account, so maybe you can call back in a few months but right now there's no more we can do".

So now you can see how they lied to me.

Believe me though, i'm getting the money they promised me or i will see them in court.

Yea i posted this other places, not spamming. If this has happened to anyone else perhaps i can get a CA suit going or something.

- A
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David
I have a son- d3
Premium,VIP
join:2002-05-30
Granite City, IL
kudos:68

Re: I feel betrayed & lied to by ATT.

You can post in direct and I can look at it or as least get someone to contact you or send me an IM.
pandora
Premium
join:2001-06-01
Outland
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Google Voice
·Future Nine Corp..
·Comcast
·ooma

I've used AT&T for years ...

I've used AT&T for years, but the monthly charges on a family plan for the iPhone are too expensive for my taste. The data charges are outrageous IMO. I like my family plan, like my rollover minutes, but can't afford the data rates.

For this reason, I've ordered some Palm Pre's from Sprint. I know they may not be as elegant as the iPhone, but the monthly cost for my family will be about $100 less. $100 a month adds up over time.
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