iPhone Exclusivity Goes Away In Canada

Does the iPhone utilize the 21 mbps?
Cause I thought only the 3GS could connect
to AT&T's upcoming 7 Mbps 3G.

Yes It can connect to 21 Mbps. But....

And there is a BIG but, no phone is fast enough to handed a constant download of that speed.

Right now they all seem to have a limit of about 12 Mbps. The CPU/memory combo just can't handle anything that fast, and its not just the iPhone, its every phone I have seen tested has this problem.

The next generation of phones, with the Cortex A9 processor will be able to handle it fully.

Also I just want to add because I am tired of seeing people type this, the iPhone will NOT be coming to Verizon any time soon. This really proves it, if Bell and Telus went out a built a HSPA network, so they could have phones like the iPhone. It shows that apple is not going to build a a CDMA iPhone.

The iPhone will come to T-Mobile in the USA before anyone else, because they are expanding their 3G network faster then anyone else.

We will see the CDMA iPhone before we see the AWS 1700 iPhone. AWS is used in exactly 1 country (USA) and with exactly 1 GSM provider (TM USA). CDMA is available everywhere except Europe and Australia (CDMA was shut down there), except about 1/2 the countries with CDMA are on 450mhz (ex-nordic analog bagphone band, zero chance of 450mhz iPhone), but besides that, it still leaves alot of countries and 100s of millions of users. China, Japan, South Korea, India, and South America have serious CDMA deployments. »www.cdg.org/worldwide/cd ··· iber.asp

A CDMA iphone will never happen. Also, you're wrong about never seeing an iPhone with AWS. Both AT&T as well as Rogers, Bell and Tellus have invested HUGE sums of $$ into AWS spectrum so you can BET that Apple will include the 1700Mhz frequency in a future iteration of their iPhone.

Adi

A 1700 handset will be a LTE handset, not a GSM/HSDPA handset with 1700. Not sure if LTE handsets will have CDMA/GSM fallback at this point. VZW is promising a forklift upgrade to LTE, unlike its 3G rollout.

ATT's AWS spectrum is fragmented »www.phonescoop.com/artic ··· 9&p=1495 , probably bought defensivly. Anyways Verizon has said only LTE is going on its AWS. ATT also said LTE only on AWS »www.unstrung.com/documen ··· d=181827 . The chance of a HSDPA 1700 iPhone is Zero.

I respectfully disagree. The complexity of adding the 1700Mhz band to the iPhone is very little : additional antenna is needed and the chip set needs to be certified for the new frequency. That's about it.

Adi

The complexity is very little, but corporations don't think like humans. A proper engineer would release a 1700mhz handset, a CEO would never greenlight it without a business agreement being signed first, by the carrier who wants that 1700mhz phone.

I don’t think you got the memo. LTE will be data only to start (many years). And it’s going to take some time for the carriers build a business plan that monetizes mobile VOIP. I don’t know one carrier that plans on cannibalizing their revenue for the sake of innovation.

You guys really need to hang up the iPhone/CDMA argument once and for all.. the only and correct answer right now is "... NO ONE KNOWS"... anytime someone says "It's coming to CDMA" or "It will NEVER hit CDMA" has absolutely NO clue what they are talking about no matter what side of the hope coin they're on.. hasn't anyone learned that by now?

The ONLY thing for certain, right now, is that what ever side someone is on (be it they want it on CDMA or who say it will never hit CDMA) will be that either side will say "see.. I knew it all along"...

.. it's nothing more than a 50% guess right now. The one thing I will say, however, and it's been said many times before.. apple was hiring CDMA engineers as little as a year ago.. does that mean anything? No one knows... apple has been VERY good at keeping a tight wrap on things... so really.. don't say "never"... you CAN'T say "never" especially when the numbers speak different.. There are MILLIONS of people on CDMA networks in the United States.. that's potential revenue for apple.. If they stop seeing new sales, who knows if they open up to more technology.. besides, it's not like many people believe.. it's NOT hard to adapt a phone for different technology.. RIM has been doing it for years.. you guys make it out like it would cost bazillions or dollars to make a CDMA version of the phone...

The iPhone is still technically a new phone.. there is still a large market untapped for the phone...

The only thing I'd ever put my money on is that anyone here who thinks they know what the future holds for the iPhone... is prolly wrong!

Actually 2 countries... USA and Canada (unless you consider Canada an extra state)

It is most likely easier to program a GSM/HSPA chip to run on a different frequency than it is to deploy a different architecture (CDMA 2000 core vs GSM MAP core).

Those hundreds of millions (--
Canada = Hollywood North

I always wondered about that, why isnt 450mhz used here in the states? I'm not familiar with radio transmission or frequencies but I was under the impression that the lower the frequency the better the transmission into buildings and the less towers you need to put up?

I think it's cause it's still used for the C-band satellite broadcast (the BUDS, Big Ugly Dishes).. Someone correct me if i'm wrong.

Adi

Because in the USA, the FCC for decades handed out 2 way walkie talkie radio channels to anything with a Inc on the end of it, and the warehousers will let go of it on a cold day in hell, and the rest is given to amateur radio.

»www.cdg.org/technology/3 ··· tion.asp

»www.ntia.doc.gov/osmhome ··· chrt.pdf

Plus the Ham radio lobby will fight to the end for their bands, and the so will all the businesses that don't use their endless bands.

»Re: Legislation Introduced in US Senate to Inventory Radio Spect

Some folks in congress are trying to force the FCC to do a spectrum inventory study, something that has never been done before in the USA, so congress can TRY (tough luck with lobbyist $) and revoke/evict all the warehousers and other poor excuses for radio channels and use them for something that actually helps citizens.

It would be really sweet if 450mhz band was opened up in USA, mountain coverage, deep inside concrete building coverage (Wal-mart/Home Depot/office tower), underground passages (subway/underground city/mall-ish), and areas where there are no towers because the NIMBYs are the zoning board, and all the carriers have a huge gap in the area. Of course a phone should use 450mhz as a last resort as to not congest it.

Edit: made a little chart to show the NMT CDMA bands visually, its basically 450-460 mhz for mobile tx, and 465-475 for tower tx, plus 2 more distant bands. Each license seems to be 5 mhz. A tiny tiny tiny amount nowadays. 1.25 mhz CDMA will fit, UTMS with its 5mhz blocks probably wouldn't. The 2 800mhz bands in the USA are 30 mhz I believe. PCS bands are 10, 20 or 30, although some have been subdivided to 5mhz I think.

A 7.2mbps phone won't get higher than 7.2mbps. It's quite simple.

The iphone 3gs, HTC G1/Hero/Magic, Motorola Cliq, etc.. are all 7.2mbps max phones. With HSPA+ they'd get closer to their rated 7.2mbps max, but they're not going to ever go faster than their rated speeds.

Wrong. The iPhone 3GS can only connect at max 7.2Mbps HSDPA speeds for download and UMTS 384kbps for upload due to the chipset it is based on.

Adi

When they have such a small footprint, it is always much easier to upgrade the network.

Bell and Telus went out and built a HSPA network not just for the iPhone, but also because it gives them a chunk of the international roaming during the Olympics in Vancouver this winter. That's a large chunk of change that can go a long way to covering the (shared) cost of the build-out.

You hit the nail on the head....

not quite. only americans can connect to their HSPA network since the rest of the world cannot connect to the 850Mhz spectrum on UMTS. the rest will go to rogers since they have edge.

Huh...

iPhone 3GS supports HSPA 7.2 (aka 7.2Mbps download and 2Mbps upload, if I'm not mistaken).

This would be like stating a CDMA EVDO Rev 0 phone can download at 7Mbps today.

No it can't make use of the 21Mbps speeds as its chipset only supports the max speed of 7.2Mbps HSPA and its upload is stuck at UMTS 384 kbps speeds as Apple wanted to save bettery life as much as possible and didn't include HSDPA upload capability and insteade opted to use basic UMTS.

Adi

If you guys really think we're going to see 21Mbits specially from AT&T... whatever it it you're smoking I want some.

AT&T can't even deliver 20 Mbits to their wired customer based, let along over their flaky wireless offering.

Regardless, let's wake up and smell the coffee... Even the so called 7Mbps I doubt we'll even see 1/2 that number. I'm not a pessimist, but I have just learned to expect 33% of whatever it is that AT&T is promising.

Where I live, AT&T doesn't even have 3G coverage. In fact, they don't have 3G anywhere within fifty miles. It's really depressing to have such a nice phone (iPhone 3GS) on such a sh1tty network.

In many places around here, data doesn't work at all for me.

I don't know if Apple will make an iPhone (or iPhone-ish) device for Verizon, but if they do, I will jump right back over to Verizon immediately.

And yet you still pay ATT each month? Utterly amazing what people will do for a $600 chunk of plastic.

It was a difficult decision, but I decided to stick with it because the phone is THAT good. Call it a chunk of plastic or whatever. The fact remains, it is a GREAT phone.

I upgraded from an old BB Curve on Verizon to the BB Tour, and I had nothing but problems with it. I said I would give it until the first OS patch, and if my problems (problems that didn't even exist on the Curve) weren't resolved, I was going to try the iPhone.

Switching from the Tour to the iPhone was a breath of fresh air. My service here with AT&T is definitely not as good as it was with Verizon, but not bad enough to ditch the iPhone.

I am not a fan of Apple, and I really didn't want to like the iPhone, but the damned thing just plain WORKS (when AT&T does!). Syncing with iTunes is amazing, the OS is simple, clean, and intuitive. There are a few things that it can't do that I could do with my BB's, but what it does do, it does superbly.

I want an iPhone on Verizon's network.

Bell and Telus (CDMA) have better coverage in Canada than Rogers (GSM) so there are many people who cannot switch to Rogers so Rogers is probably not making enough money off the Iphone to stay profitable after paying Apple.
»www.gsmworld.com/cgi-bin ··· a&net=rw
»www.bell.ca/support/PrsC ··· vel.page

In the US GSM has better coverage than CDMA, so 99% of Verizon customers can just switch to ATT so ATT can still profit after paying Apple for exclusivity.

This should open the door for hacking the CDMA Iphones to work on verizon.
Bell and Telus are going to be building GSM networks, but I doubt they will release a GSM Iphone, it would have to be a CDMA Iphone.

How is that? The iPhone will use HSPA which is 3G GSM. The iPhone's in Canada will not be using the CDMA network's of Bell or Telus.

Telus and Bell do not have a GSM network yet, so they are just going to be roaming on Rogers the entire time???

As far as I understand, Bell and Telus are actually building their GSM network, that's how they will be able to support iPhone

Close... Bell and Telus are build a UMTS/HSPA network, which will support the iPhone 3G/3GS. There will be no 2G/GSM/EDGE.

Did you read what Karl wrote? Telus and Bell have been building a GSM network and it's all 21Mb HSPA - it will launch with the iPhone.

It's a UMTS network. Not a GSM network.

UMTS is based off of GSM

Still he has a point. Your little 2G GSM phone will NOT work on the 3G HSDPA Bell/Telus network.

Adi

Actually Bell and Telus have UMTS / HSPA (no GSM/EDGE) networks in place for 2010 Olympics, and have a national rollout planned.

»gsmworld.com/roaming/gsm ··· ca.shtml

Bell Mobility Inc. - Network Information

Network Information | Roaming Partners | Services

Operator Name: Bell Mobility Inc.
Network Name: Bell Mobility
Technology: 3G 850/1900
Network Status: Planned September 2009
Web Site:www.bell.ca

Please show me your proof of that.

Coverage maps for Verizon versus ATT show otherwise, that CDMA has better coverage nationwide.

Look at the history of the big 3 in Canada, all the prices are about the same, dont look for any competetive prices from Bell or Telus, I wouldnt put past these guys comming up with some new imaginary fee to be put on top, Im ready to drink piss if Bell and Telus offer lower prices.

.. The article says so:

"Bell announced Monday that it will launch national service in November on the $1-billion next-generation wireless network it has been building with Telus, months ahead of schedule. The project extends the two companies' existing third-generation (3G) networks to include the same technology standard employed by Rogers, the nation's largest cellphone company.

Until now, Rogers has enjoyed a Canadian monopoly on that standard – and with it, one of the hottest products of the mobile age. "

Given that detail, I wonder if you can bring your iPhone from Rogers to Bell/Telus?

Rogers didn't have exclusivity like AT&T does here in the US. Rogers was the de-facto "exclusive" iPhone carrier in Canada (along with Fido, which they own) since they were the only carrier to have a GSM 3G network. Now that Bell and Telus have a GSM network, they get the iPhone too.

Maybe someday Apple will also allow Canadians to use a Paypal account in the itunes or App Stores.

jerks...

Since the iPhone will have additional carriers in the great white north does this mean that current Canadian iPhone owners will sync their phones with their iTunes and all of a sudden see a message that reads "eh! your iPhone is unlock eh!"

I'm just wondering hahahah! eh!

Well, this certainly makes things interesting now that the Apple has fallen from the eclusively Rogers tree.

My contract with Telus is up next year in August (more than ten years with them) and I had seriously been thinking about switching carriers to Rogers only because of the iPhone.

Assuming the rollout goes as planned, things should be stable enough by August of next year to make a handset upgrade to the new iPhone on the Telus network a certainty.

The only things that could derail this would be a piss poor data rate plan (likely) or worse yet that they somehow cripple the WiFi functionality in it

Oh and having to import all my contact data from my current phone will likely be a PITA as well

NefCanuck

I'm hoping with three UMTs providers in Canada, Yanks with 3g phones might start seeing better roaming rates north (or in my case in Detroit -- south) of the border.

You're kidding, right? Bellus and Robbers don't compete with each other... they just collide.

rich upper class that buys 300$ lil tiny devices and then gets charged out the yin yang.

more reason to NEVER buy into there crap.
with 1 billion between the two that be a hard hit if NO ONE BUYS ANY OF THERE IPHONES

1- CDMA is a dead end technology. Even Qualcomm, the owner of CDMA (uppercase CDMA is the proprietary technology) admitted so. CDMA networks wouldn't have begun migration to GSM (aka HSPA) if CDMA had a bright future with just as good a selection of handsets.

2- While an individual phone may not support full speed of a network, having 21mbps per channel might allow 3 phones to download at 7mbps speed on same channel. In other words, it may not increase download speed for a handset, but would increase capacity to support more customers connected to an antenna.

You'll need at least two jobs minimum to afford an iphone subscription in Canada. For some people it'll be three maybe four jobs and some selling on the side to afford a subscription.

Maybe, maybe not...

Now that there will be "three" carriers in Canada selling the iPhone (I used three in quotes since Bell/Telus share their networks based on where you are in Canada) it is possible that there may be deals to be had.

Maybe not as good as the Rogers 6GB data / m was (and Rogers is desperately trying to get people who have that plan off it) but just maybe there will be something more reasonable (Personally if I got 3GB of data use per month at a reasonable price in a plan that would likely be just enough)

NefCanuck