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Comments on news posted 2004-01-08 12:59:28: On the heels of Earthlink's decision to can 1,300 support employees and ship their jobs to India comes the inevitable media roundtable on the trend of outsourcing labor. ..

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JJV
Premium Member
join:2001-04-25
Seattle, WA

JJV

Premium Member

Boycott!

Let them get their customers in india too!

I hope lawmakers make them pay big time.

JeffB8
Premium Member
join:2001-12-20
Somewhere

JeffB8

Premium Member

I agree. It's bad enough that we have people from all over coming to our country taking our jobs we're making it easier...we'll bring the jobs to their door. Friggin' amazing.
bigbearr
join:2003-11-16
Saint Louis, MO

bigbearr

Member

Definatly different from 1980

In the 1980s when factories shifted, it was alot different. You could still get your car repaired at the repair shop (more $$, but could still repair), you did not have to call "tech support" for your car, you did not *see* or *hear* the over seas aspect of it all.

So now, people call up tech support and "hear" the difference.
Will there be more uproar? Probly about the same in the 80s, because in the USA we live in today, people only care about themselves.

dadkins
Can you do Blu?
MVM
join:2003-09-26
Hercules, CA

dadkins to JJV

MVM

to JJV

Re: Boycott!

I don't use it but a friend does, Ever call "Tech Support" for AOL? Refresh my memory, what does AOL stand for? Then why does the phone call go to India?

...and people are wondering why unemployment is so high... DUH!

morbo
Complete Your Transaction
join:2002-01-22
00000

morbo

Member

boycott these f***s

*ANY COMPANY* that does this will not get my business until the situation is rectified. I will be making a list and posting it on my website for people to view... Companies to avoid like the plague.

don't support us? fine. we won't support you.

NeO_JAW
Arsenal Are No1
Premium Member
join:2002-01-24
Surrey, UK

NeO_JAW

Premium Member

Job stealing Country!

In the UK we have been sending our call centres to India for a while now, and trust, its a pain in the back side, you can never understand a word they say, and they cant understand you. These call centre's are a bad idea unless you intend to offer really bad costumer service on purpose.

dadkins
Can you do Blu?
MVM
join:2003-09-26
Hercules, CA

dadkins to bigbearr

MVM

to bigbearr

Re: Definatly different from 1980

Probly about the same in the 80s, because in the USA we live in today, people only care about themselves

What's wrong with that? Most of the planet only cares about itself and what it can swindle out of the U.S.

About time WE started taking care of business at home first!
dadkins

dadkins to morbo

MVM

to morbo

Re: boycott these f***s

EXACTLY!!!

happyrobot
join:2001-05-09
Brooklyn, NY

happyrobot to JeffB8

Member

to JeffB8

Re: Boycott!

a company i worked for a few years ago is outsourcing their data-entry to India. I spoke with the guy who manages the whole project, and as much as he felt bad about exporting the work AND laying off co-workers he had worked with for years, he said the bottom line results were way too great to argue with.

he told me that the offshore people are turning around the work in half the time PLUS the quality of the work is nearly 100% perfect.
I forget the exact numbers of the "quality" they were getting before with their american staff, but the amount of errors was quite high, meaning that people had to constantly go through the database looking for basic dumb mistakes (that was actually part of my job when i was there).

I'm in the IT field myself with a job that is the classic canidate for outsourcing, so i am not pro-outsourcing...
but, because of the cheap AND smart labor they can get in India, we're in trouble.
ackman
join:2000-10-04
Atlanta, GA

ackman

Member

End offshore outsourcing NOW!!

It's about time that the American people stand up against the destructive practices of greedy American CEOs, who are only interested in protecting their own executive bonus packages by improving the bottom line in any illegal, immoral, or treasonous way they can conjure. Outsourcing tech jobs is BAD for America, BAD for American workers, BAD for the American economy, BAD for our federal tax base, BAD for our trade deficit, and a risky practice for the companies' shareholders by sending much of their tech functions to an area of the world wrought with chaos. Let's start to pressure the companies who are screwing America by using these offshore services. Some companies that come to mind are: Oracle, Accenture (these scumbags would outsource their own mother to the devil if they could), Home Depot, Earthlink, BellSouth, Lucent, IBM, etc, etc...

We've at least had a couple of small victories in the war against treasonous offshore outsourcing: Dell pulled all corporate customer support back to America after tons of complaints about Indian services, and Lehman Brothers investment group is discontinuing their use of Indian services. Come on, America, let's wake up on this issue, and let corporate America know that their greed must be reeled in. Obviously the Bush administration isn't going to be hard on corporate CEOs, so we have to find another way to pressure them.

bistro777
Donuts-Is There Anything They Can't Do?
Premium Member
join:2002-02-07
Englewood, CO

bistro777 to morbo

Premium Member

to morbo

Re: boycott these f***s

It'll be tough to avoid the - evergrowing - list of companies who have offshored their customer/tech support. And, unfortunately, it's only going to get worse... (See my comments in the Earthlink thread.)

"All great truths begin as blasphemes." - - George Bernard Shaw
rid0617
join:2003-07-20
Greer, SC

rid0617

Member

Who can afford it

these countries keep outsourcing, laying people off and expecting Americans with new lower paying jobs to still by their product.

BOYCOTT any company that outsources. They sure don't share any benefits with us that they receive from this cheaper labor.

Varangian
join:2002-12-08
Collinsville, IL

Varangian

Member

RESOLVE, FOCUS and SUSTAIN

Resolve before the fight starts that it will be carried to the finish. Declare the target already dead in your heart because it might be necessary to drive it out of business as an example to the others.
For boycott to be an effective strategy it must be focused . As so many companies have turned traitor at the same time that we cant boycott them all. One target must be selected
The first example needs to be a company small enopugh to actually be hurt over the short term by a boycott. Traitor gates and his indian pals , for example could hold out for decades. We want a target that can be destroyed within a year if they wont fall into line.
Once the boycott is in place, it has to be sustained for as long as it takes. The suits will try everything from race baiting to price cutting to break the siege. Nothing but unconditonal surrender is acceptable.

happyrobot
join:2001-05-09
Brooklyn, NY

happyrobot

Member

bravo!
that should be a sticky anytime someone mentions boycotts.

AthlGrond
Premium Member
join:2002-04-25
Aurora, CO

AthlGrond to bistro777

Premium Member

to bistro777

Re: boycott these f***s

I think there will be a unpublicized return of some if not most of these positions back to the US once these companies don't realise the savings they are hoping for.

It's one thing to have your electronics mass produced overseas but unless you plan to move the entire company overseas you are going to experience some serious communications problems between the developers (or the CSRs) and the customers. These problems can be overcome however the overcoming will eat into your cost savings, in earthlink's case they are likely to lose their top spot in customer satisfaction.
bigbearr
join:2003-11-16
Saint Louis, MO

bigbearr to dadkins

Member

to dadkins

Re: Definatly different from 1980

probly because *I* care about others, which makes my whole life stressful and depressing.
macaholic
Premium Member
join:2003-08-31
Jackson Heights, NY

macaholic to happyrobot

Premium Member

to happyrobot

Re: Boycott!

said by happyrobot:
a company i worked for a few years ago is outsourcing their data-entry to India. I spoke with the guy who manages the whole project, and as much as he felt bad about exporting the work AND laying off co-workers he had worked with for years, he said the bottom line results were way too great to argue with.

he told me that the offshore people are turning around the work in half the time PLUS the quality of the work is nearly 100% perfect.
I forget the exact numbers of the "quality" they were getting before with their american staff, but the amount of errors was quite high, meaning that people had to constantly go through the database looking for basic dumb mistakes (that was actually part of my job when i was there).

I'm in the IT field myself with a job that is the classic canidate for outsourcing, so i am not pro-outsourcing...
but, because of the cheap AND smart labor they can get in India, we're in trouble.

Gee I sure hope all the data being entered is secure. just what are the laws in India regarding resale of personal data from the US???

Tell that guy who manages the project that his company better set up a piggy bank fund for all the litigation they gonna get when private data gets made public. And when the project is close to close? who takes it over? who will be responsible for it 5 years from now when maintenance or corrections need to be made...how much that gonna cost when local employ pool will be non existant? how much does it cost to project manage people across the globe (actually they will probably fire him soon)

and finally will the cost of labor stay low in India or do you think its going up after those folks get a taste of American cash?

this is why coorporate america is failing..they can't think past their wallets...no long term plans or questions...

Ben
waynemr
join:2002-01-28
Madison, WI

waynemr

Member

A non-computer multi-faceted DDoS

My suggestion (which is 100% perfectly legal, BTW):

Get 10,000 folks to place one bogus ad per day in an Indian newspaper or job-hunting resource.

Hire 100 fake recruiters to canvas the areas where they are hiring and have them advert awesome jobs all the time.

Get 10,000 non-tech folk in the outsourcing area and have them fill out applications for the actual recruiters.

Get 10,000 more folks to submit fake job requests to recruiters in outsourcing places.

Net effect = fubar their hiring system, making it impossible for potential employees to find work, too hard for hiring companies to hire actual tech-folks, and too difficult for recruiters to know which jobs are legit or not. All of that causes their system to react, chewing up more resources and costing more to outsource over-seas.

Oh, and then get a few million folks to lobby the US government to revoke all tax breaks for any company that outsources overseas. You have a company here but don't hire workers here then you don't get *ANY* tax breaks. You move your company to avoid the loss of tax breaks, then you get TARIFFS.

DaveDude
No Fear
join:1999-09-01
New Jersey

1 edit

DaveDude

Member

wait, isnt this always the reaction of corp americ

Okay,
have you ever noticed that when there is something you dont like, or agree with. There is some group who claims you believe different?

bokamba
Chengdu Rocks
Premium Member
join:2002-04-05
Arlington, VA

bokamba to macaholic

Premium Member

to macaholic

Re: Boycott!

If there is indeed a problem with the security of such data, it will take a serious breach and a major lawsuit for anything to change. So far, I haven't heard of this happening.

Boogeyman
Drive it like you stole it
Premium Member
join:2002-12-17
Wasilla, AK

Boogeyman to ackman

Premium Member

to ackman

Re: End offshore outsourcing NOW!!

Where did you hear theat Bellsouth outsources its tech support? Everytime I've called I've gotten someone that was obviously southern.

minidu
Premium Member
join:2002-09-28
Cheboygan, MI

minidu

Premium Member

I've done tech support for Bellsouth in Ft. Lauderdale FL, and they don't have any over seas support functions. Infact I don't believe they legally can.

fifty nine
join:2002-09-25
Sussex, NJ

fifty nine

Member

The only thing hampering profits is..

Excessive executive compensation.

'nuff said.
ackman
join:2000-10-04
Atlanta, GA

ackman to Boogeyman

Member

to Boogeyman

Re: End offshore outsourcing NOW!!

I read a recent press release that said they were planning to save up to $275 million over 5 years by outsourcing their IT to India. Seemed pretty clear to me that the CEO and Accenture's project manager worked out a nice cushy bonus deal out of this one..."OK, we're going to save the company $275 million over the next 5 years, we think we deserve a piece of that, perhaps $50 million in bonus incentives..."

Here's more info:
»www.bizjournals.com/atla ··· mn7.html

fifty nine
join:2002-09-25
Sussex, NJ

fifty nine to NeO_JAW

Member

to NeO_JAW

Re: Job stealing Country!

I don't understand how India is a "Job stealing Country" when American (and British) businesses are the ones giving away the jobs to India.

starstuff
Fly By Wire
Premium Member
join:2001-12-05
Mcallen, TX

1 edit

starstuff

Premium Member

Too late for American workers....

Remember NAFTA? "Yes we're going to loose some manufacturing jobs but we are going to create new jobs in the services area" Guess what? Services jobs are going away too and there is nothing we can do.

Ex president of Mexico Carlos Salinas de Gortary "We want to export products not people" Guess what? We don't have the manufacturing jobs and we have 25 million illegal Mexican immigrants living/working in the US.

We are so dumb, companies are so greedy and our politicians are so stupid that we deserve this and more.

"In a country and in a nation, people get the government that they deserve, because it is they who are responsible for sending people to the top." - SRI SWAMI CHIDANANDA

So get ready and start living your new life.... as poor white trash. We deserve it!

fifty nine
join:2002-09-25
Sussex, NJ

fifty nine to ackman

Member

to ackman

Re: End offshore outsourcing NOW!!

WOW!!

The first sensible post I've seen on this issue since it surfaced on BBR.

I'm truly glad that you're pointing the blame in the right direction, i.e. at American businesses, not at Indian offshoring shops taking advantage of an opportunity too good to be true.

I commend you!
ackman
join:2000-10-04
Atlanta, GA

ackman to minidu

Member

to minidu
Ask Accenture if they can. If you are correct, then here is how it would happen. Accenture, which took over BellSouth's IT operations a couple of years ago, has a growing presence in India. Accenture would simply service BellSouth with their Indian-based workers, instead of hiring American workers to work for Accenture and be placed with BellSouth. Since Accenture is an "American" company, then BellSouth is then employing an American company for their IT outsourcing solution. Hence, they can do it quite easily, if your statement is true.

Accenture is turning into a huge problem in this whole Indian outsourcing thing. They also put American perm staff workers on the street when they take over a company's IT operations and place their own staff. Sometimes they will hire on perm folks to stay at the client site, but the net result is still a destabilization of the American IT workforce.

Homer J
Mmmm, Free Goo
join:2000-10-05
Knoxville, TN

1 edit

Homer J

Member

Will I see a cheaper bill because of Outsourcing

It seems every company is trying to improve their bottom line through various tactics. Outsourcing is one, another that comes to mind is to no longer send you a paper bill.
I am sure many of you have had offers from company's to stop sending you a paper bill and just send you an electronic bill. They rave about how much easier it will be. They save a lot of money not having to process and mail you a paper bill, but do they pass any of that savings on to the customer. The answer is a resounding NO.
When any company has tried this on me, I always ask, how much will I save if I choose to save the company money by accepting only an electronic bill. My request is usually met by silence, and I am sure a quizzical look. They then tell me I will not be saving anything. I then tell them that they will need to continue to mail me the paper bill, till they choose to share some of the savings with me.
So when a company you are dealing with chooses to send call center and other work offshore, ask them how much of the savings they will be passing along to you their customer, and wait for the silence.
The latest was from 1 of my credit cards, they now want to process all check payments electronically, so that your check will not be returned to the bank. I wrote to them, saying I did not agree to that practice and asked what they would be doing with all the checks sent in, and not returned to the bank. Would they be be destroyed properly to prevent potential problems. I am still waiting for an answer. I am sure they will not respond or send a form letter, at which time I will simply cancel the card citing poor security on their part.

Just my .02

See these? American donuts. Glazed, powered, and raspberry-filled. Now, how's that for freedom of choice

D'oh
Homer J
sekharnet
join:2002-04-26
Forest Hills, NY

sekharnet to morbo

Member

to morbo

Re: boycott these f***s

Sure! Do you have a website?. Let us know so we can keep looking at it for such companies.
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