Verizon sues Covad alleging false complaints

They did it to Northpoint with false buyout...now they figure they can litigate Covad to an early death

VERIZON IS DISGUSTING. ANYONE ASSOCIATED WITH THIS COMPANY SHOULD FEEL EXTREMELY DIRTY.

During my inital installation from charm.net (Covad) the covad people claimed the local loop was a problem. Only after three visits from Verizon did it work. In each case including the final successful visit, Verizon personnel insisted that the loop was fine. It only worked after Verizon tech climbed the pole during his final visit. I suspect Verizon problems. Just my own observations!!!

David throws a rock at Goliath, and alas, misses.

Goliath responds with an office-building full of attorneys. Doesn't matter how high or low they aim, does it?

Verizon’s suit says ill-equipped, untrained and overscheduled Covad technicians were routinely told by supervisors to blame Verizon for problems even when Verizon clearly wasn’t at fault.

Anyone who thinks Covad or any other company wouldn't pull this kind of stuff is deluding themselves. All of these companies (Bell's included) need to be held accountable. Unfortunately, the government isn't holding anyone accountable for anything more.

I'm just shocked this kind of news was on MSNBC.com. Do they normally deal with DSL news? Normally, I think of them as mainly a political website.

This is a between a monopoly and a competitive company. When there is a dispute between a monopoly and a competitive company, the competitive company is always presumed guilty until proven innocent by absolute certainty. Meaning that unless they can prove there's no possible way they could ever be thought to be guilty, they should be sentenced to death, or total government takeover.

As opposed to "all Verizon tech are to deliver untested loops and not show for the first appointment..random claims of unavailable copper work too"

Please Verizon is the worst of the bunch.

It equivalent to a bunch of kids (CLEC and RBOC) in a schoolyard beating up on each other. The teacher (the government) does do anything about it until it's too late. At that point, they start to point fingers at each other.

As a Covad employee I am biased, but Verizon is amazing at how they can cloud the picture which gives the customer a tainted view.

The responses on why we cant get connectivity are endless, and now they are suing us. They have us, and everyone else captive. I hate being held up by some discriminating monoply that chooses make the customer the loser instead of being proactive about their business and providing a value added service. EVERYONE WANTS/NEEDS BANDWIDTH. Verizon will play poker instead of giving us all what we want!!!

The problem is all they will accomplish is to help the cable companies win the broadband war. If it were up to them broadband access would not go over telco lines at all.

And don't forget that they have the highest non-subscriber cable modem rates in Farmington, MI, and that Time Warner is punishing all the people that switched to dishes.

By filing trivial suits with a high rise full of lawyers and the weight of a monopoly and billions of cash in hand, they are trying to intimidate comparatively tiny Covad. Getting bitter (terminated) ex-employees to lie is not hard. Proving the case with bias? Thats a different story. Covad can win this if the sheer manpower and resorces of Verizon doesnt crush them.

You know, this sort of an action seems a bit desperate from such a huge company. They are up against the anti-trust suit Covad filed - perhaps its not going so well for them?

Hopefuly scrappy Covad will survive this obvious legal "Hail Mary" pass.

We are ALL working in the wrong business.

With all of these lawsuits going on, there has to be a very GREAT demand for lawyers !!!

Suing Covad is enough to put Covad out of business.
Covad has to defend themselves, which requires lawyers on Covad's part. The expense of lawyers, on top of Covad's teetering balance sheet, will definitely put Covad into bankruptcy waters, and that is what Verizon is hoping for.

It doesn't matter what Verizon sues Covad for. It costs Covad just as much to defend themselves from Verizon's suit.

True. But Covad already has its own lawyers and legal staff. They (Verizon) may hope for bankruptcy but I doubt it. My guess is its legal nonsense to inflict enough pain to perhaps force Covad to settle the suit cheaply and prior to bankruptcy. Actually, a bankrupt Covad, would actually make the ensuing suit more damaging. Its all pain.

Hopefully the monopoly wont get to pull another "Northpoint".

Everyone knows that in the CLEC (Covad) vs. ILEC (Verizon) war, Verizon is the bad guy. We the people are with you, Covad!

I had Covad DSL for about three months and got 1.1 which was better than the 768 performance had contracted for. Then the performance dropped to 334. After numerous calls, I got a Covad and Verizon technician out to my house at the same time and they agreed the problem with not with my line. The covad technician went back to the CO and later called me indicating the problem was a Covad network problem because they did not have enough lines and there was nothing they could do. I worked with my ISP in order to get Covad to tell them exactly what the problem was so I could either get the performance I had contracted for or switch to a different supplier. Covad would never give the ISP a straight answer. After three months of trying, my DSL line stopped working so I called tech support. The got with Covad and Covad informed them that I had already had 2 service calls requiring home service and they were dropping me immediately. It took me over 2 months to finally get new service installed. With customer support like that, Covad get's what they deserve. I am not thrilled with Verizon which I have now; but at least I feel confident that they won't cancel me if I have a problem.

Yawn..........I am so tired of DSL. I just got OOL after having both Covad and Rhythyms DSL. Covad version got cancelled because my ISP wasnt paying their bills and well Rhythyms, well they are soon going away. Cable is winning the battle and winning fast. At least in residential broadband access. I hope all you DSL users switch to cable when you can so we can teach these ILECS a lesson. OOL is committed to keeping their service reliable and fast by splitting nodes as soon as its needed, for $29.95 you cant go wrong with that. My tests average 5000kbps/900kbps and sometimes as high as 5200-5600. Cable Wins!!

The CLECS are dishonest and so are the ILECS. I've worked for both CLECS and a ILEC now and in my opinion the ILECS have played the game smarter then the CLECS. The CLEC techs get shafted while the CLEC managers download Napster all day, refuse to answer any call from a customer, boink their subordinates, and give raises if you keep quiet about what is really going on.

Adios to the CLECS who are a sorry bunch of losers. This is not to say that there are not any hard working and honest CLEC people. Early on in 1999 the CLECS had a shot at giving the ILECS a run for their money. Then the money gushed in and reverse discrimination, greed, harassment, and dishonesty took over the CLECS at most levels. I hope Verizon wins their lawsuit against COVAD and I hope the employees of Rhythms (CLEC) sue the managers and executives at Rhythms whose mantra is to smile, lie, and rip the consumer off.

It's the same pattern. Out of 16 posts to this forum (I threw out 2far's multiple posts. Bad form 2far)6 are from the NYC area.
So tell me guys, are you just abnormally cranky,or is your town staffed with a bunch of ex Nytel/Nynex losers or is your telco infrastructure just rotting away under your feet?

When over 1/3 of the negative replies come from one geographically small place, something just isn't right. Have any of you NYC guys ever pondered why you feel things are so bad for you?

Speak for yourself. I've personally witnessed COVAD's antics (and other CLECs). Nobody's innocent in this game. You may support them, but don't count me in.

Verizon made me interNOTed for 4 months total and now it try to make me with covad go offline again. Oh, disgusting...

The truth hurts doesn't it? As a tech for Verizon, (yes I am extremely dirty!), the truth finally comes out. I have installed lines for Vitts(remember them?). They would order the cheapest loop they could and then try to run dsl. It wouldn't work and Verizon gets the blame. Once Vitts ordered a loop conditioned for digital service(more money) did the dsl work. The whole time verizon being blamed for it all. These CLEC's have no idea what they are doing.

Wow, such subjective input from a moderator. Despite your vile feelings, not everyone associated with Verizon is dirty. Your blatant labeling of anyone associated with Verizon makes you as dirty as you claim them to be.

You also obviously have little knowledge of internal operations with ILECs and CLECs and the games that are played. Everyone knows Verizon has problems, but COVAD is far from innocent. Of course it's just easier to blame the bigger company because the smaller one just can't defend itself. Good grief!

Because Verizion run (ruins) the show here 100%....every DSL order goes through them. The Verizon infrastructure here is just the pits. The've owned NYNEX for over 3 years now...still can't get it right. And the lets not even get into the additonal union quagmire here...thats just the icing on the sh*t cake.

The company is DIRTY... and being a moderator will NEVER erase experiences of my family, my friends, myself.... Verizon is legendary in this neck of the woods..

How a person could ethically feel confortable working for satan is beyond my understanding.

I have to agree with promano. The only possible reason that Verizon is suing is because they want to put Covad out of business. Think about it. What would be the outcome of this.

A - Covad could use up more of their cash reserves in the defense against this suit (Even if they do have their own legal staff, I doubt that they will have enough manpower on the current payroll to even get close to having a chance of winning) and they are forced into bankruptcy - even if they win the case.

B - Covad looses against Verizon and has to pay through the nose. That = Bankruptcy

Besides, what could Verizon possibly expect to get out of company that is nearly $1 billion in debt? An IOU? If Verizon wins, there will be nothing left to collect.

Ever since the Telecommunications Act of 1996 allowed D.C.L.E.C.s to operate in conjunction w/ the ILECs in one CO, the ILECS (SWBell and Verizon, etc.) need the DCLECs.
Here's Why:

SWBell is an equity holder in Covad Communications Group
(I.E. Shareholder). This means that they are insignificant in relation to Covads Creditors. If Covad was to file for Bankruptcy or Protection thereof, then the creditors would get first pick at what they want to take ("Assets"). The creditors would take the network and all of the equipment and the equity holders would be left with nothing. So in conclusion Covad or its creditors would not pay the bill presented by the baby bells and therefore they would report huge losses which would in turn drive a loss in stock value. So basically this is just like a bankrupt ISP not paying Covad's bill which would in turn generate revenue loss at Covad. Verizon is just trying to shift criticism from its operations temporarily. (Primarily because they do not frequently deliver what they promise) The executive management of the baby bells realize the importance of the DCLECs. However, if it had not been for the Telecom Act of 1996, then the ILECs would not have a need for the CLECs. Mainly because the CLECs would not be there to block additional revenue from the ILECs.

I can just imagine the mess that will come about when Road Runner and Optimum OnLine are forced to open their lines up to EarthLink and other ISPs. Then, where do we go from here?

Although I left Verizon in favor of Road Runner, what mess is awaiting me when Road Runner opens up their lines? Same s@@t, different toilet.

said by verizonlover:

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The truth hurts doesn't it? As a tech for Verizon, (yes I am extremely dirty!), the truth finally comes out. I have installed lines for Vitts(remember them?). They would order the cheapest loop they could and then try to run dsl. It wouldn't work and Verizon gets the blame. Once Vitts ordered a loop conditioned for digital service(more money) did the dsl work. The whole time verizon being blamed for it all. These CLEC's have no idea what they are doing.

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If they ordered equpiment from you, then *YOU* are responsible for making sure it works! That's like buying a brand new car without a warranty.