Greed, Lies, and 'Progress'

This makes me wonder what Bellsouth would do if anyone tried that here....

...the more I believe that the big guys are no more than a wretched hive of scum and villany. I can think of no better description. I guess when you're facing being "outed" by a real competitor you'll go to great lengths.

Would you trust sending or receiving your package via USPS everytime?

They are cheap, they get the job done, they are insurable.

The USPS, even though they are a FED. GOV'T branch - are NOT the only alternative around, but that DOES NOT mean anyone will suffer to HAVE to use them. It is a choice, but you don't see other companies trying to stiffle the USPS out of doing its job.

Comcast, other incumbent broadband providers...get a clue from your customers ' demands - How many times do you see private money lenders wearing masks, holding up federal reserve banks ? -

Be sure to send them a Thank You letter. This is all possible because of their ineptitude.
Who needs to play a cardboard board-game with cute little die-cast pieces when you can be an un-witting participant of the Real-Life game of Monopoly?

It's just another case of the ones with deeper pockets wins. Many communities have no broadband, while the nearest outlet maybe very close [1 mile] and they're told that to wire broadband would be $10,000+. So they try to wire themselves [I don't think it's very hard] and the same people have given them a huge price tag is now very cozy, buddy-buddy with them.
They'll come up with studies from places nobody has heard of, depicting the evils of broadband. And the actual people who want to set up the local network can't fight the PR campaign because that takes money. And while companies, like Comcast, can afford to do this, local government & groups just don't have the $$$.

And of course the big companies don't want competition. Why? They'll have to spend money on 1)lowering their rates to be competitive and 2)doing a better job, because now their will be someone else to go to if they don't like the service they get.

People should think of the advantages of broadband [especially if they want to install fiber]. Some companies are in the urban areas because of convenience. But if you have fiber run, you have the option of video teleconferencing and other high bandwidth applications, which is becoming more & more necessary these days.

It is unbelievable the attacks we have been under the past week! www.tricitybroadband.com We shall see how much of an affect SBC and Comcast's mighty marketing flurry had on this campaign in the end, along with the releasing of the Heartland Institute's piece of trash. This battle was much worse than the last referendum in terms of how vicious the two mega corps were...I can't wait until they disclose how much they spent on this.

well have u guys seen shawshank redemption? that warden had prisoners run a lumber business. since prisoners dont get paid , he can lower prices to kill all other people's business. i think thats wat cable and telco is afraid of. how can u compete with little or non profit municipal business? I would do the exact same thing, save my business

Of course we all know that when the government steps in things become much, much better.

You'll probably be waiting quite a while. Even though Comcast and SBC are both publicly traded corporations, this type of information is nearly impossible to obtain (unless, of course, they choose to voluntarily disclose it).

and you just now started seeing this?:o

corporate whores are everywhere:(

It's now a matter of constant reinforcment rather than a new awakening to corporate weaseldom. I've been aware of the situation for too long already.

There is a new campaign finance law on the books in IL and SBC and Comcast must comply this year. Anything over $3,000 they must report!

Karl,

I realize you use the term Podunk, NE to describe the wasteland that must me this state however your missing the boat on our need to be wired.

Even towns such as Herman, NE population 300 are served by DSL here. »www.city-data.com/city/H ··· ska.html

In Herman, you can get 512 Symmetrical SDSL for $39/mo
»www.greatplainsnetlink.n ··· serv.cfm

I'm not advocating for the Telco's or Cable Co's
I'm just saying if Herman, NE is wired your Podunk theory is a little off.

In Omaha, NE (The Birthplace of Level 3) you can get service from 2 different cable providers in places IN ADDITION to DSL.

Are some areas lacking coverage of High Speed? Yes.
Should they build their own if they want? Yes.

Is rural America (Or Nebraska in this example) a wasteland of no High Speed? No.

what a pile of crap this story is. Read the study cited as a example of the small city fiber working. 1.2 million$$ invested 24 businesses served, not one single resident, all business. $2,200.00 to get the service and up to $711.00 a month for it. The study is incomplete and data is missing, what type of comapnys use the service? and what did they hire the "new" employees for? Why is a study that only services businesses used? IS this the ONLY single case that has ever shown that this crappy plan works?

If small town fiber is such a good idea let investors flip the bill, why make tax payers pay for it? In the study it clearly says it never intended to make money and it does not make money, it is a tax payers money pit. What a bad plan, tax payers supporting business fiber. The city concils should be inprisoned for wasteing so much tax money for a plan that never had a chance to show profit or even pay for itself. Whoever wrote this should have read the study first before putting it up. You have totally shown that muni fiber plans waste tax money.

This is a complete shame I have been trying to bring in some kind of real broadband service to our village for over 2 years, and yet good old Qwest fights me every step of the way.

Yet they have told me they have no intentions to deploy anything other than POTS before '09.

$2200 Install
$711/mo

The company I would for would pay double that to get on a 10MBPS network, no questions asked.

And we could get on a 3mbps network for $1400/mo if we wanted (I have fiber in my building) Just the best I can do for the office I want to connect to is 768 so it would be pointless.

How about Click! network? They entered the market in Tacoma Washington, and now the area has the lowest cable rates in the nation. They also run in the black.

How about Scottsburg, Indiana? Their school system saves roughly $6,000 per month on telecom costs thanks to a community built network.

A good plan is a good plan. A bad plan is a bad plan. You don't ban all muni operations, many of which are funded without taxpayer funds, based on some idiotic half-assed notion that they're all evil....or that government involvement results in chaos.

If the town wants to create a plan, votes for it, and wants to move forward, who the hell are you - in some other town - to say otherwise?

And think about this. If muni operations were all economically impossible and collapsed under their own weight, do you think the SBC's and Comcast's of the world would fight so hard against them?

No, they'd simply let them fail and save the money spent on lobbyists, ads, and push polls.

Sorry Zobo. I just pulled the name out of a hat. No slight intended toward Nebraska, I swear. Simply trying to make the point that small towns can't expect to become gods of economy just by running fiber.....

I know you just did the Podunk,NE before

I would have to drive at least an hour from where I am at to find a cow.

Last time I relocated an office, NOT being serviceable via fiber eliminated them from the hunt.

Fiber will definately be a plus when looking to locate a business, even for a small town.

You need only look at what BellSouth is doing in Lafayette, Louisiana, (where they're trying to build a fiber network) to get your answer:

»You Don't Want Fiber

»"Experts" Slam Munis

your a piece of work there karl. Show one single case where muni works? You linked a cable/isp company, and a report of a city BUYING into the electric companys fiber to provide wireless, after the study for fiber showed it is NOT cost effective. ESTIMATED $6,000.00 in savings, if it is not documented then it ain't true. The Canadain study linked says as clear as day that it never intended to make money and it never will, not one single resident user a whooping 24 subscribers, is that even considered a rollout of fiber? I guess it falls into the dslreports agenda of socialism, higher taxes for all, less choice, down with businesses. Good job comrade karl!

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Show one single case where muni works? You linked a cable/isp company

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Click! is a municipal operation. Read, then babble:

»old.tribnet.com/business ··· 75c.html
»www.wired.com/news/busin ··· ,00.html

Or you know, keep spewing pro-corporation anti-competitive rhetoric anonymously.

babble? Ok then, 2 more links that no where does it say click makes a penny. Tax subsidized internet for the few, while taxing the many. How is that a good idea? $1.2 million spent to make the network, $10,000+ a month to maintain, and it only serves 24 businesses, is that a good plan? A good way to spend tax dollars? Show the facts and figures for click. I wonder how they cook the books to say they even break even.

I am not a fanboy for corps either, but they are not useing my hard earned tax dollars. I sweat and bleed for my money so excuse me if I feel providing others with cheap internet is not worth my sweat and blood.

Oh and karl, you see my IP what more unanon can I be? If you feel I am not debating the issue then delete the post. Everything I have seen so far says this is a very bad idea. It is not even a glimmer of hope for those without BB. The only real hope for viable BB is the Texas model, where they LOAN money to the providers to get the DSL or fiber out to the rural areas. Oh wait you guys said that was a bad thing. I don't get it, a loan to get a private company to rollout is bad, but a goverment ran ISP is good??? umm, wake me up please!!!

Since this is about Joyce, Washington: What response do you get from the good folks at Clallam PUD (which has some fibre installations)?

You're getting silly. If you don't believe me that they're running in the black, call them yourself. it's true, and they're in the book.

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I wonder how they cook the books to say they even break even.

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So even if you had their annual report in front of you showing a profit, you assume they're lying?

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I am not a fanboy for corps either, but they are not useing my hard earned tax dollars.

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Not all Munis use tax dollars. I still think you need to read more. Maybe start with this interview with Jim Baller. There's many financial models, not all result in higher taxes or use taxes at all.

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Everything I have seen so far says this is a very bad idea.

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Please, show me what you "have seen" that warrants banning all municipal broadband operations nationally. Show me anti-municipal facts and figures that don't come from a corporation competing with them or a corporate front-group with a cute name.

Karl Don't feed the trolls.

This person probably works for one of the companies being affected by the choices and is po'ed it works and take away from his paychecks.

If you don't believe me that they're running in the black, call them yourself. it's true, and they're in the book.

Excellent debate technique. You can't prove your assertion so you try to get your opponent to disprove it. I've yet to see a government agency that runs in the black so unless YOU can prove that it runs in the black I'll assume it doesn't.

That being said, your confidence in municipalities in general to create coherent broadband plans is laughable. The mayor of San Francisco wants to rollout wireless to the entire city. A city with one of the highest penetration of broadband in the country and he wants a government run wirelss network. He's not talking about FTTH. This guy is the rule and Click! is at best the exception.

The Jim Baller interview you sight even has him saying, "For some services, however, the private enterprise system does not work particularly well, at least in the short term." And that's what you get from government agencies short term fixes that placate the electorate and lead to bloated bureaucracies and massive government spending. The idea of the Tennessee Valley Authority was just to provide power to rural areas in the 30's. 70+ years later it still exists and is a fiscal mess.

You keep ignoring my questions, champ. I'm afraid we can't keep playing patty cake if you don't actually read what I write....

We don't have corporations in charge of building streets and roads to rural communities. If they did the roads wouldn't be built. From an argument that the people out in the sticks can't provide enough tax revenue to pay for the roads.

So the companies will refrain from building out the broadband pipeline because of lack of profitability. So why not have it as a part of a city service? What's the big deal? You know they are going to outsource the cable laying to third party companies anyways! But it has to be municiply run.

My only fear would be the 'authorities' would readily tap the lines to sniff around. More easily than they can do with individual companies.

My thoughts.

You want it, you got it. And the sweetest part is that it's from your own site:
»A Municipal Failure

The TVA is a fact. SF mayor wanting to rollout wireless is a fact. LA power authority gauging during the rolling blackouts 5 years ago is a fact. Do you believe FTTH is immune to government largese? Every government program failure is a specific example. It doesn't have to be broadband to be related.