http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Yeah-right-It-IS-a-good-deal-10663992 en Fri, 25 Mar 2022 11:10:18 EDT Fri, 25 Mar 2022 11:10:18 EDT http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Yeah-right-10802249 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Yeah-right-10802249 Sat, 17 Jul 2004 13:31:11 EDT http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Yeah-right-10703921
To me, it's well worth it. It's faster in both directions. It's more reliable. I get four static IP addresses. I can run servers without constantly looking over my shoulder. I can share bandwidth with my neighbors. No ports or protocols are ever blocked. And I get a reasonably clueful support staff when something breaks. After dealing with Road Runner almost since they started, Speakeasy is a breath of fresh air.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Yeah-right-10703921 Tue, 06 Jul 2004 17:36:00 EDT http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Yeah-right-It-IS-a-good-deal-10677036
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English is a difficult enough language to interpret correctly when its rules are followed, let alone when a writer chooses not to follow those rules. Blog is here
Jeopardy! replies REALLY suck!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Yeah-right-It-IS-a-good-deal-10677036 Sat, 03 Jul 2004 01:09:16 EDT http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Yeah-right-It-IS-a-good-deal-10676992
Asychronous means a start bit, the payload bits, and a stop bit. There is no requirement to send data all the time. Async lines are always clocked individually in each transmitter and receiver, and each of those clocks must be maintained within a certain frequency tolerance in order to communicate properly. The purpose of the start bit is to inform the receiving end when precisely to start looking for data on the line. It "knows" the start bit should be some certain time in duration, and after that time expires, it can start assembling the datum that's being communicated. Each bit in the data stream likewise is some fixed duration, and the clock internal to the receiver determines when each of the datum bits should be on the line. This is typically accomplished with a shift register. In part, the purpose of the stop bit is to give the receiver time to transfer the assembled contents of the shift register somewhere to prepare to receive the next datum.

Sync lines on the other hand (such as the T-1 you mention) eliminate the start and stop bits, and use various protocols (NRZ and NRZI to name two) to maintain clocking. (T-1's typically use bipolar signalling with 8 zero substitution, or B8ZS. Sync lines with too many consecutive zeroes will lose sync.) There are data, even if it's all zeroes or all SYN octets, traversing the line all the time. The receiving clocking can be derived from the bit patterns on the line. The next protocol layer up, such as frame relay or ATM, is what transports the data. I would be extremely surprised if a more learned person than I were to tell me that any DSL were async. (Heck, I've been wrong many times before, but I don't think so on this one.)

What you have not apparently been exposed to is traffic control/traffic shaping. Traffic shaping is the process of only allowing data to be transmitted at a configured rate. Traffic control is selecting datagrams from the data stream based on some criteria and reordering the transmission queue (or buffer if you like) from a configured policy. Taking your example, if you arrange for your "normal traffic" queue to be traffic shaped to slightly less than the link's capacity, and classify all your bulk traffic to be in that queue, you will then have a small amount of reserve link capacity that you can use to send the TCP ACK packets for your download. You simply select ACK packets, put them in this "reserve" queue, and ensure these smaller, "more important" packets in this reserve queue get sent ahead of your bulk traffic. This is the basic concept of how WonderShaper works using Linux traffic control (tc).

In other words, you don't have to settle for a strict queue for your IP networking. With the rise of the use of VoIP and other time-critical prototols, even home use router appliances are shipping with QoS (quality of service) or differentiated services (DiffServ) features. Things like the Sipura SPA-2000 that I have for VoIP can set these fields in the IP header to request the packets they transmit be treated with priority. As long as the slowest router in the path (most probably your own) honors that request, those packets will go out your DSL or cable modem before ones without any special QoS/DiffServ options set. Likewise, if ever there were to be an inbound queue, those packets would be transmitted on your LAN before ones without.

See lartc.org for more details on traffic shaping. I believe that's also where I read about the contributed WonderShaper script.
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English is a difficult enough language to interpret correctly when its rules are followed, let alone when a writer chooses not to follow those rules. Blog is here
Jeopardy! replies REALLY suck!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Yeah-right-It-IS-a-good-deal-10676992 Sat, 03 Jul 2004 01:01:13 EDT http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Yeah-right-It-IS-a-good-deal-10676652
It Does matter where you authenticate. Took them over 9 months to get a DSLAM local to me, in Chicago.

Until that time, My Ping times were in the averages of 1800ms

Terrible, huh?

When they got the one in Chicago, which is still about 4 hours from me, It dropped instantaneously to about 140ms which is still rediculously high. But I can deal with it.

Anyways, *Frowns*, It could just be my ISP *Knows it is but don't want to admit it*

And yea, you are right about most of it.

FYI, RChandra: You are more knowledgeable than 99% of the IT staff at my ISP *laughs hard*]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Yeah-right-It-IS-a-good-deal-10676652 Sat, 03 Jul 2004 00:05:47 EDT http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Yeah-right-It-IS-a-good-deal-10676617
Synchronous, if you think about a T1, is the following.

A T1 is both up and down at 1.5Mbit
I can download at FULL capacity of 1.5 and also upload at the exact same rate at FULL capacity.

aDSL, if you use the FULL 256Kbit of my DSL provider or others that I've used at friends, You will not have hardly ANY download speed (as in = 8KByte average MAX when utilizing full Upload)

So, either way. Same difference.

(Frowns about his ISP)

RothPC]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Yeah-right-It-IS-a-good-deal-10676617 Sat, 03 Jul 2004 00:00:35 EDT http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Yeah-right-It-IS-a-good-deal-10669322
As for line utilization, the two rates are totally independent. Upstream for example does borrow bandwidth from downstream if volume would seem to demand it. Now it may be true that upstream or downstream usage may affect the end-to-end data rate in the opposite direction, but that is only because a higher level protocol such as TCP requires sending packets in the opposite direction (ACK packets). If the transfer process could tolerate dropped and reordered packets, it could be sent over UDP and be unidirectional.

Your assertion that the network is shared is true, from the DSLAM outwards. But at that point your PVC will contend for bandwidth (almost assuredly UBR) with all your neighbors on the ATM network.

It doesn't generally matter where you authenticate. If as you say your access method is PPPoA, your data simply travels an ATM network first before any IP is involved. It's not just authentication that is done in Rochester, it's basicallly anything usable to you (unless you fancy using ATM equipment somehow, and even then, you probably would have no way of establishing a PVC or SVC). When I had Telocity, my traffic was being carried via ATM to Philadelphia. I suppose it would make more IP sense if your IP datagrams were "injected" closer to you because there are NAPs closer to you than Rochester, so you could be using services in your area. Rochester most likely goes through NAPs in New York City, so it would simply mean you'll likely have better performance with hosts in the NYC area instead of the Chicago area.

"YET, it can potentially cause more problems in the case that there is online in that area, more than the ISP area can handle."

ummm....what? Would you like to try to rephrase that?

I don't know of a single DSL provider that advertises their bandwidth in terms of minimums. There may be guaranteed minimums, but it's generally not used in ads. And no, DSL providers rarely if ever include any protocol overheads. Some are as sleazy as to specify sync rate, and a lot (like Verizon) specify the rate at which IP can be transported (their 1.5M/384K service is set to sync at 1792/448 and has TCP transfer rates of about 1500/360...close to 1536/384). All their literature will be plastered with fine print saying this is the maximum possible, your actual rate may be less depending on loop length, wire condition, blah, blah, blah.
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English is a difficult enough language to interpret correctly when its rules are followed, let alone when a writer chooses not to follow those rules. Blog is here
Jeopardy! replies REALLY suck!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Yeah-right-It-IS-a-good-deal-10669322 Fri, 02 Jul 2004 08:41:54 EDT http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Yeah-right-It-IS-a-good-deal-10667899
but with those speeds the max distance is like 14,950ft from the CO.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Yeah-right-It-IS-a-good-deal-10667899 Fri, 02 Jul 2004 01:22:46 EDT http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Yeah-right-10667262 ;)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Yeah-right-10667262 Thu, 01 Jul 2004 23:59:12 EDT http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Yeah-right-10667101
Speakeasy is only available in major cities, and did not seem to be considering new markets the last I heard.

This news is of no use to most of us regrettably.

I wish I could get Speakeasy, lineshare or dry pair, either one would do.
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Best of luck

"Do, or Do not, there is no try!" Yoda]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Yeah-right-10667101 Thu, 01 Jul 2004 23:40:50 EDT http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Yeah-right-It-IS-a-good-deal-10666623
I've got DSL with Citizens Communications (i.e. Frontiernet.net)

I've had it since Jan, 2003. For the first 9 months, I actually only paid 1 month of service and got the other 8 months credited back in full, month by month. Reasons: I'll tell ya.

1) DSL service, 1.0/128 (400kbit/62kbit doesn't quite meet the statement)
2) Bad DSLAM (Authentication service) --> half the time the stupid DSLAM was down for some unknown reason.
3) In Illinois, Close to Granite City. --> Routed me to authenticate (PPPoA) upto Rochester, New York. Isn't there a better way to route the authentication?
I.e. Ping times were upwards of 1800ms most times.
4) Multiple ranges of IP addresses were not resolving to the DNS. i.e. -> You get a speed, sync, and connection. However You do not get an IP address, which you can not surf the net without an IP "Address".
5) Frontiernet.net STILL has problems (Don't go there)
6) I'm paying $49.99 for Frontiernet.net Right now.
7) I informed them of a problem early February of 2003, and They said it was on my end, not theirs. (Typical, eh?) Months later, I get the response after calling in 40 something times for trouble tickets with them, and to this date, They are STILL working to resolve the problems. NOTE: Frontier, You need people who know what your doing. ESPECIALLY TECH Specialists!

7 DSL, rather DEDICATED aDSL is great if you think about it in these terms: aDSL normally is "asynchronous" meaning that the more upload you use, the less download you have available. Also, it means that you are on a shared network.

Another thing. ISPs always oversell their bandwidth for an area, because they never expect everyone to be on at the same time. This allows for greater sales to the ISP (not just frontiernet) and more clients. YET, it can potentially cause more problems in the case that there is online in that area, more than the ISP area can handle.

DEDICATED aDSL is also asynchronous (hence the "a" in the aDSL, but is MUCH better than the type I am referring to, which is a shared connection (Virtual DSL in a sense).

Dedicated, you are on your very own circuit, directly connected to the ISP. You do not have to go through a 'shared network" on the ISP and share a "pipe" with the others in the area.
So if the case above comes into play, You are NOT affected by it one bit. There are a few other reasons for it as well. But Hell yea. I'm gonna get it in about 4 months.

Speakeasy, I hope you live up to what you claim.

p.s. Does anyone know if it is 1.5 MINIMUM and 256 minimum? or is that the MAX? And does it include TCP overhead transfer and the maximum actual THROUGHPUT is 1.5/256? Anyone fill me in on this info? Thanks

TJ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Yeah-right-It-IS-a-good-deal-10666623 Thu, 01 Jul 2004 22:46:00 EDT http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Yeah-right-10665855
For less than that price you can buy both the
voice phone line AND the DSL from SBC.

Great idea gone terribly wrong here. LOL]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Yeah-right-10665855 Thu, 01 Jul 2004 21:27:53 EDT http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Yeah-right-10665753 said by djdanska:

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Unreasonable since i pay $52.95 for 4300/384. LoL

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Yeah right.
Just don't use that blazing speed too much or you are gonna be forced back to dial-up. LOL]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Yeah-right-10665753 Thu, 01 Jul 2004 21:17:18 EDT http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Yeah-right-10664869 said by DarkElf:

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$55.95 a month? Yeah, right.

[sarcasm]

People will be running to get this service.

[/sarcasm]

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Depends on whether this is the same as many of their other services: multiple static IPs and a ToS that guarantees that you can run servers on a residential service (e.g., their OSDN service comes with 8 IPs). In other words, if this is something like a SOHO service. If so, and you're someone that looks for that type of service, it's a bargain - still dirt cheap compared to other dedicated line solutions (T-1, SDSL, etc.).

-tom
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"There are 10 types of people in the world... those who understand binary and those who don't."
"That's only 2 types of people, moron"]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Yeah-right-10664869 Thu, 01 Jul 2004 19:49:47 EDT http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Yeah-right-10664246 said by DarkElf:

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$55.95 a month? Yeah, right.

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Actually that could be a very good deal in some cases!

For example, I pay that much per month for my DSL (which is also 1.5meg/256k), and I'm required to keep my POTS line (with CenturyTel) to qualify (and the POTS line itself is around $25)! If this becomes an option in my area, I might consider dropping POTS, and just go with VoIP totally (I'm already using VoIP for LD). And what about my dad's place? His only current BroadBand option, is cable modem service (at almost that much per month), with a minuscule "hard limit" of 3GB/month of data (and 2 cents per megabyte after that)! This Speakeasy service is "unlimited" as long as you are "using it reasonably" (i.e. you don't use up all your month's bandwidth, simply downloading a Linux install CD set).

And remember, "naked DSL" is likely to be a little more expensive (maybe an extra $5-$15 per month) than more traditional "line sharing", as you don't have the POTS service paying for part of the wire. The cable companies do the same, by charging a little more if you order "cable internet" without also paying for "cable TV". IMHO this is all well and good, because this helps keep the services profitable, while still giving consumers options. If someone doesn't like paying a little more for "naked DSL", they still have the option to buy a POTS phone + DSL bundle (or cable TV + cable internet bundle) somewhere.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Yeah-right-10664246 Thu, 01 Jul 2004 18:41:30 EDT http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Yeah-right-10664231 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Yeah-right-10664231 Thu, 01 Jul 2004 18:39:29 EDT http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Yeah-right-10664200 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Yeah-right-10664200 Thu, 01 Jul 2004 18:36:54 EDT http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Yeah-right-10664109
$55.95 a month seems unreasonable to me. Maybe because I only pay $39 for my cable service.

Oh well.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Yeah-right-10664109 Thu, 01 Jul 2004 18:27:10 EDT http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Yeah-right-10664100 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Yeah-right-10664100 Thu, 01 Jul 2004 18:26:06 EDT http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Yeah-right-10664053 said by DarkElf:

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$55.95 a month? Yeah, right.

[sarcasm]

People will be running to get this service.

[/sarcasm]

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Depends on how much that telephone line costs you, if it costs $30/mo it's like getting $25/mo DSL.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Yeah-right-10664053 Thu, 01 Jul 2004 18:19:56 EDT http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Yeah-right-10664025 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Yeah-right-10664025 Thu, 01 Jul 2004 18:16:57 EDT http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Yeah-right-10663992
[sarcasm]

People will be running to get this service.

[/sarcasm]]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Yeah-right-10663992 Thu, 01 Jul 2004 18:13:16 EDT