Topic 'Re: Western seperation?' in forum 'Canadian Chat' - dslreports.com http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Western-seperation-10658992 en Thu, 24 Mar 2022 20:12:15 EDT Thu, 24 Mar 2022 20:12:15 EDT Re: Western seperation? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Western-seperation-10810823
imho that is Harper.!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Western-seperation-10810823 Sun, 18 Jul 2004 16:51:04 EDT Re: Western seperation? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Western-seperation-10802729 said by Vendetta950:

And he's still a he. We need less hes and more shes in political office.


The last thing I need is my MP badgering me to take out the garbage ;)
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Hail to the Nipple-Titan.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Western-seperation-10802729 Sat, 17 Jul 2004 14:48:05 EDT Re: Western seperation? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Western-seperation-10801345 said by darkeans:
sounds pretty cool to me. nothing to be afraid of V950 ;-)AND he is the youngest political leader.

Never said that who he is bothers me. To me, he exudes energy which is polar opposite to mine. That's why he gives me the willies.

Haven't you ever seen or met a person that you instantly felt the need to get away from? That's how Harper makes me feel.

And he's still a he. We need less hes and more shes in political office.
--
Maybe one day, when the human race can grow beyond the need to invoke a deity everytime they wish to justify their actions, vs taking responsibility themselves, the world may become a safer place.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Western-seperation-10801345 Sat, 17 Jul 2004 11:09:37 EDT Re: Western seperation? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Western-seperation-10798464
And for anyone who cares, I actually tore up my Canadian Alliance membership and became a Progressive Conservative because of Stockwell Day. Stephen Harper is not out to turn Canada into a 19th Century Haven. I couldn't say the same of Stockwell Day.
--
Bigot - Someone that has won an argument with a Liberal.
Yes, I CanChat. Can You? www.fiberal.ca]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Western-seperation-10798464 Fri, 16 Jul 2004 23:12:31 EDT Re: Western seperation? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Western-seperation-10798434
»en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St ··· n_Harper

»www.fact-index.com/s/st/ ··· per.html

quote:


-BORN April 20, 1959

-He was born and raised in Toronto before finding employment in the oil and gas industry and moving to Alberta. He attended the University of Calgary

-Harper has been described as a "policy wonk" and an "ideological conservative";

-he also claims some identification with the libertarian intellectual tradition.

-Harper became involved in politics in the mid-80s but became disillusioned with the government of Brian Mulroney and the Progressive Conservative Party of Canada; he was especially critical on issues of fiscal policy


sounds pretty cool to me. nothing to be afraid of V950 ;-)AND he is the youngest political leader.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Western-seperation-10798434 Fri, 16 Jul 2004 23:09:25 EDT Re: Western seperation? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Western-seperation-10794771 said by Ian1:
said by FishPants:


1. Belinda is a "top dog" in the commercial side of things, and I would classify her as part of the "old boys network" even if she has a pair of boobs.

2. I would rather see a middle class PM as opposed to option #1 above ;)


Well, at least She's not a lawyer. When was the last time we had a PM who wasn't one?


And from quebec....
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»www.languagefairness.org/]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Western-seperation-10794771 Fri, 16 Jul 2004 15:45:17 EDT Re: Western seperation? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Western-seperation-10794429 said by FishPants:


1. Belinda is a "top dog" in the commercial side of things, and I would classify her as part of the "old boys network" even if she has a pair of boobs.

2. I would rather see a middle class PM as opposed to option #1 above ;)


Well, at least She's not a lawyer. When was the last time we had a PM who wasn't one? Belinda attended just one year at York U. Not too shabby to make it to CEO of a big company. Of course her dad owning it might have helped...a bit. ;-)
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"Ahh....those sweet few seconds before I remember why I'm sleeping on the lawn." H.S.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Western-seperation-10794429 Fri, 16 Jul 2004 15:07:28 EDT Re: Western seperation? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Western-seperation-10794349 said by panamagat:
I get to read a lot of newspapers from all over Canada where I work and lately I've seen quite a bit in some of the Alberta papers about the idea of Western seperation. Call me an ignorant Ontarian but I had no idea this was even on the radar. Can any Westerners confirm if this is actually something that has support?


LOL guys that was my point.. Let me separate it up, make it less confusing:

1. Belinda is a "top dog" in the commercial side of things, and I would classify her as part of the "old boys network" even if she has a pair of boobs.

2. I would rather see a middle class PM as opposed to option #1 above ;)
--
Hail to the Nipple-Titan.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Western-seperation-10794349 Fri, 16 Jul 2004 14:56:14 EDT Re: Western seperation? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Western-seperation-10793181 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Western-seperation-10793181 Fri, 16 Jul 2004 12:42:52 EDT Re: Western seperation? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Western-seperation-10792968 said by Vendetta950:
said by FishPants:
Make no mistake, Belina running Magna definitely qualifies her as an old boy. She runs with the big dogs in the commercial circle; for once I would like to see a middle class person be PM, might make them more in touch with reality.

Yes, she does run Magna and that does put her in play with the Corporate old boys but she does have two things going for her:

She's a She.
She's under 40.

You'll never see a middle class person as PM because it costs too much money to run a campaign to become PM in the first place. If you have that much money then you certainly are no longer middle class. :)
I hope I misunderstood this posting about "it would've been better had Belinda been the Conservative leader" and "it would be nice to see a middle class PM", because as young, non-male or anything else that Belinda might be, she is faaaaaar from middle class.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Western-seperation-10792968 Fri, 16 Jul 2004 12:18:05 EDT Re: Western seperation? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Western-seperation-10792780 said by Vendetta950:
said by FishPants:
Make no mistake, Belina running Magna definitely qualifies her as an old boy. She runs with the big dogs in the commercial circle; for once I would like to see a middle class person be PM, might make them more in touch with reality.

Yes, she does run Magna and that does put her in play with the Corporate old boys but she does have two things going for her:

She's a She.
She's under 40.

You'll never see a middle class person as PM because it costs too much money to run a campaign to become PM in the first place. If you have that much money then you certainly are no longer middle class. :)


Still though being in that "arena" makes her more susceptible to corruption IMHO. After working in a corporate role for 8 years, I think I can safely say that with some degree of certainty. The people in corporate life can be pure evil on account of money (not all, but the higher up you are it seems the more greedy you become).

I thought campaigns were in fact paid out of party coffers? I didn't think the people running for PM paid out of their own pockets..?
--
Hail to the Nipple-Titan.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Western-seperation-10792780 Fri, 16 Jul 2004 11:56:43 EDT Re: Western seperation? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Western-seperation-10792746 said by FishPants:
Make no mistake, Belina running Magna definitely qualifies her as an old boy. She runs with the big dogs in the commercial circle; for once I would like to see a middle class person be PM, might make them more in touch with reality.

Yes, she does run Magna and that does put her in play with the Corporate old boys but she does have two things going for her:

She's a She.
She's under 40.

You'll never see a middle class person as PM because it costs too much money to run a campaign to become PM in the first place. If you have that much money then you certainly are no longer middle class. :)
--
Maybe one day, when the human race can grow beyond the need to invoke a deity everytime they wish to justify their actions, vs taking responsibility themselves, the world may become a safer place.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Western-seperation-10792746 Fri, 16 Jul 2004 11:52:00 EDT Re: Western seperation? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Western-seperation-10792021 said by Vendetta950:
said by darkeans:
V950. Thank U for your reply. I honestly don't understand why Harper gives you the willies. I am assuming it is his looks as I will assume you've never met or talked to him.

Did you watch the CBC National debates.? Consensus is Harper appeared to come across the best. Martin flupped the debates and appeared to be lacking confidence or structure to his agruements.

No, it's not his looks, it's just his aura. No, I have never met the man nor talked to him. It's just a dark feeling I get from him.

Funny thing is, I don't get the dark feeling from Bush and he's much scarier all around.

No, I did not watch the debates as they were on before 10:00pm and I don't usually watch TV before then. But even if I had it wouldn't have made a difference on how I choose to vote - there was just too much in the Conservative platform that I disagreed with.

Problem that I have with all the party leaders is that they lacked charisma - something I feel is necessary for a leader of quality.

Belinda has charisma out the wazoo which is why I was disappointed she didn't become party leader. I may have actually paid attention to the election and potentially switched alliance if she had been (and no, her being from Ontario would not have made a difference to me).

Guess I'm just tired of our political system being run by a bunch of old boys who really haven't a clue as to what it will take to move our country into the 21st century and become a primary player on the world stage (not just the US's ball boy).


Make no mistake, Belina running Magna definitely qualifies her as an old boy. She runs with the big dogs in the commercial circle; for once I would like to see a middle class person be PM, might make them more in touch with reality.
--
Hail to the Nipple-Titan.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Western-seperation-10792021 Fri, 16 Jul 2004 10:22:05 EDT Re: Western seperation? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Western-seperation-10792011 said by darkeans:
V950. Thank U for your reply. I honestly don't understand why Harper gives you the willies. I am assuming it is his looks as I will assume you've never met or talked to him.

Did you watch the CBC National debates.? Consensus is Harper appeared to come across the best. Martin flupped the debates and appeared to be lacking confidence or structure to his agruements.

No, it's not his looks, it's just his aura. No, I have never met the man nor talked to him. It's just a dark feeling I get from him.

Funny thing is, I don't get the dark feeling from Bush and he's much scarier all around.

No, I did not watch the debates as they were on before 10:00pm and I don't usually watch TV before then. But even if I had it wouldn't have made a difference on how I choose to vote - there was just too much in the Conservative platform that I disagreed with.

Problem that I have with all the party leaders is that they lacked charisma - something I feel is necessary for a leader of quality.

Belinda has charisma out the wazoo which is why I was disappointed she didn't become party leader. I may have actually paid attention to the election and potentially switched alliance if she had been (and no, her being from Ontario would not have made a difference to me).

Guess I'm just tired of our political system being run by a bunch of old boys who really haven't a clue as to what it will take to move our country into the 21st century and become a primary player on the world stage (not just the US's ball boy).
--
Maybe one day, when the human race can grow beyond the need to invoke a deity everytime they wish to justify their actions, vs taking responsibility themselves, the world may become a safer place.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Western-seperation-10792011 Fri, 16 Jul 2004 10:20:23 EDT Re: Western seperation? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Western-seperation-10791410 said by darkeans:
i believe in Alberta and i believe Canada has failed Alberta.
Then vote for the Alberta Separatists party... because I believe that the Conservatives stand for a united Canada that does not advocate separation of the west.

I don't understand any separatist or separatist-like movements. The land of Alberta was 100% part of the Dominion of Canada... it was all the North-West Territories. It was only after Canada decided to split up the NWT that Alberta even came into existence, therefore it's a province that has always been Canada... not a province like BC or the ones out east that used to be independent and chose to join Canada.

In the early 1900s, Alberta didn't even have enough of an economy to be self-sufficient, but that was fine, because a country looks out for all of its provinces and as a result helped Alberta. When the depression hit, Alberta was one of the provinces that felt it the most, but that was fine, because a country looks out for all of its provinces and as a result helped Alberta. But when Alberta found a natural resource to help them get rich (not a well managed government or exceptional workers or anything else), they want to take their riches and run... rather than contributing to Canada and helping out the other provinces.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Western-seperation-10791410 Fri, 16 Jul 2004 08:57:36 EDT Re: Western seperation? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Western-seperation-10789009 said by darkeans:


Martin flupped the debates and appeared to be lacking confidence or structure to his agruements.


Just because he's a liar and a Moron!!
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»www.languagefairness.org/]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Western-seperation-10789009 Thu, 15 Jul 2004 23:08:19 EDT Re: Western seperation? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Western-seperation-10788351
Did you watch the CBC National debates.? Consensus is Harper appeared to come across the best. Martin flupped the debates and appeared to be lacking confidence or structure to his agruements.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Western-seperation-10788351 Thu, 15 Jul 2004 21:52:55 EDT Re: Western seperation? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Western-seperation-10787179
I believe in Kyoto and doing everything we can to better the environment.

I don't believe in forging any closer ties with the country south of the border - we've already sold out to them enough.

I don't believe in privatized health care of any sort.

I believe that if two people love each other they should not be denied the benefits of state just because they are of the same sex.

I believe that our country should become more socialized than it already is.

I still don't understand why Albertans feel that the feds have failed them. I don't feel the feds have failed Mantiobans.

As for family values and commitment to the community - that is an individuals choice - not a government mandate.

I have no comment about an elected senate or elected head of state but that does sound like something they have down south of us so if it's something like their system then I don't like it.

And while we would all like the GST eliminated, it's far better than having a hidden tax applied to everything.

I don't own any guns so the the Gun Registry has no bearing on me what so ever so I don't care if it's there or not.

I do believe that more federal money needs to be funneled into the arts, amateur sports, education, and most importantly - the environment.

So while we may share some of the same beliefs, mine do not fall in line with the Conservative party thinking and thus, I didn't vote for them. That, and the fact that Stephen Harper gives me the willies.
--
Maybe one day, when the human race can grow beyond the need to invoke a deity everytime they wish to justify their actions, vs taking responsibility themselves, the world may become a safer place.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Western-seperation-10787179 Thu, 15 Jul 2004 19:45:12 EDT Re: Western seperation? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Western-seperation-10786430
i believe in family values and committment to the community.

i believe in an elected senate and elected head of state.

i believe kyota is a sell out of alberta.

i believe in forging closer ties with our friends south of the border.

i believe in privatized healthcare.

i believe in turfing the gst.

i believe marriage is a bond before God of one man and one woman.

i believe in punishing the criminal and not the victim.

i believe the gun registry is a waste of money and resources.

i believe in Alberta and i believe Canada has failed Alberta.

i believe the LIEberals are criminals and should be in jail.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Western-seperation-10786430 Thu, 15 Jul 2004 18:13:59 EDT Re: Western seperation? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Western-seperation-10786410 said by Vendetta950:
said by darkeans:
V950. Sorry you make your informed election choice based upon what a person looks like.

This is just plain dumb and borders on racism and sterotyping.

I remember my poor old grandmother once said she did not trust asians as they looked sneeky. I can live without this type of sterotyping and judging someone merely by how they look.

What racism and stereotyping?

The man gives me the willies. Every time I see a picture of him I feel uncomfortable. It has nothing to do with his sex, race, religion, etc.

I don't like him, I don't agree with his political philosophies, so I won't vote for him or his party.

Nothing wrong with that.

And anyway, how many people do you think actually have the time to make an "informed" election decision. I'm sure that 95% of the people who voted did so because:

1) They always vote for the same party regardless
2) They wanted to stick it to the Liberals
3) They're scared of the Conservatives
4) They have enough common sense to see that voting for either the Liberals or the Conservatives is not going to change anything for Canada so they vote NDP or Green.

So, why did you vote the way you did?


I voted because I wanted a change in Canada, one that was financially conservative and responsible.
--
Hail to the Nipple-Titan.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Western-seperation-10786410 Thu, 15 Jul 2004 18:12:29 EDT Re: Western seperation? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Western-seperation-10786338 said by darkeans:
V950. Sorry you make your informed election choice based upon what a person looks like.

This is just plain dumb and borders on racism and sterotyping.

I remember my poor old grandmother once said she did not trust asians as they looked sneeky. I can live without this type of sterotyping and judging someone merely by how they look.

What racism and stereotyping?

The man gives me the willies. Every time I see a picture of him I feel uncomfortable. It has nothing to do with his sex, race, religion, etc.

I don't like him, I don't agree with his political philosophies, so I won't vote for him or his party.

Nothing wrong with that.

And anyway, how many people do you think actually have the time to make an "informed" election decision. I'm sure that 95% of the people who voted did so because:

1) They always vote for the same party regardless
2) They wanted to stick it to the Liberals
3) They're scared of the Conservatives
4) They have enough common sense to see that voting for either the Liberals or the Conservatives is not going to change anything for Canada so they vote NDP or Green.

So, why did you vote the way you did?
--
Maybe one day, when the human race can grow beyond the need to invoke a deity everytime they wish to justify their actions, vs taking responsibility themselves, the world may become a safer place.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Western-seperation-10786338 Thu, 15 Jul 2004 18:05:09 EDT Re: Western seperation? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Western-seperation-10785652
This is just plain dumb and borders on racism and sterotyping.

I remember my poor old grandmother once said she did not trust asians as they looked sneeky. I can live without this type of sterotyping and judging someone merely by how they look.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Western-seperation-10785652 Thu, 15 Jul 2004 16:47:19 EDT Re: Western seperation? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Western-seperation-10785616 said by Riamen:
said by akoso:
Then drop the guitar 'n gun and move to Ontario.

(j/k... that one was just too easy.)
LOL, actually I was born and raised in Ontario but love living in Calgary. :)
Cool... glad you didn't take offense (some people here throw their sense of humour out the window in threads related to politics). I've covered the maritimes, Quebec, live in Ontario and was born in Winnipeg... however, I have yet to make it west of Winnipeg since I was 1. Can't wait to visit Calgary and BC though (I hear Saskatchewan is just a continuation of Manitoba, so it's bumped to the bottom of my list).]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Western-seperation-10785616 Thu, 15 Jul 2004 16:43:30 EDT Re: Western seperation? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Western-seperation-10785334 said by akoso:
Then drop the guitar 'n gun and move to Ontario.

(j/k... that one was just too easy.)
LOL, actually I was born and raised in Ontario but love living in Calgary. :)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Western-seperation-10785334 Thu, 15 Jul 2004 16:15:49 EDT Re: Western seperation? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Western-seperation-10785283 said by Riamen:
I for one am tired of being thought of as a pickup driving, country music listening, gun toting, gay bashing redneck because I choose to live in Alberta.
Then drop the guitar 'n gun and move to Ontario.

(j/k... that one was just too easy.)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Western-seperation-10785283 Thu, 15 Jul 2004 16:11:04 EDT Re: Western seperation? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Western-seperation-10785241 said by Feets:
I really think voters east of Manitoba deserve a little more credit then they are being given by some around here.

People don't vote solely on the basis of where in the country a party leader hails from, they vote on the policies of that party. The Conservative party failed to convince many voters that their policies were worth voting for. It's really as simple as that.

Just because Alice thinks one party's platform is utterly sound, based on common sense, and just what the country needs doesn't mean that Bob will agree.

I'm really getting sick and tired of being called names because I didn't vote Conservative.
Not sure what names I called anyone. *shrug*

You know Feets I would love to believe every voter takes time to make a well informed decision but all too many listen to media sound bites and let regional differences and prejudices sway their votes (I'm not singling out Ontarians here, Westerners and Quebeckers do it too). Playing up Harper's Ontario roots would would not have hurt his chances there and may have dispelled some of the Western hick stigma.

I for one am tired of being thought of as a pickup driving, country music listening, gun toting, gay bashing redneck because I choose to live in Alberta.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Western-seperation-10785241 Thu, 15 Jul 2004 16:07:09 EDT Re: Western seperation? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Western-seperation-10784810 said by Feets:
Snickerdo is right, of course, that Canada once occupied the top spot, but this year's change is UP, as originally stated by akoso.
Thanks Feets. I think Snickerdo and darkeans are the ones with short memories if they've already forgotten how much the country was freaking out last year when the ranking dropped down to eighth, largely as a result of SARS.

I'm sure the 4th spot is a result of the world not having forgotten about that episode. So with just maintaining everything, I guarantee you our ranking will be back in the top 3 next year. What a horrible place to live.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Western-seperation-10784810 Thu, 15 Jul 2004 15:24:19 EDT Re: Western seperation? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Western-seperation-10784734 said by darkeans:
once again Snickerdude is correct. does anyone research their arguements better then him or Jojadi.?


How about researching by reading the first two lines of the linked article??!!??

quote:

Having fallen in recent years from its long-held top ranking to eighth place in 2003, Canada regained some lost ground in the 2004 UN Human Development Index, released today.


Snickerdo is right, of course, that Canada once occupied the top spot, but this year's change is UP, as originally stated by askoso.

Jojadi does research?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Western-seperation-10784734 Thu, 15 Jul 2004 15:15:05 EDT Re: Western seperation? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Western-seperation-10784528
»www.cbc.ca/news/viewpoin ··· 715.html]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Western-seperation-10784528 Thu, 15 Jul 2004 14:51:32 EDT Re: Western seperation? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Western-seperation-10784271
quote:


The UN index first placed Canada at the top of its rankings in 1992.

Canada maintained the No. 1 spot for almost a decade before dropping to third in 2001, behind Norway and Sweden.

Canada fell another five rankings in 2002, dropping back of Australia and the United States.

The UN ranking includes a variety of criteria, including health, education, life expectancy, income, poverty levels and environmental quality.

]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Western-seperation-10784271 Thu, 15 Jul 2004 14:23:38 EDT Re: Western seperation? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Western-seperation-10784151 said by akoso:
Canada is up into 4th best place to live according to the UN. So, please check this out separatists: »www.thestar.com/NASApp/c ··· 93972154
"Up to" ? What a short memory you have, we used to be Number 1 and Number 2 for god knows how many years, and last time I looked we were Number 3. If we're now Number 4, something has gone terribly wrong.
--
Bigot - Someone that has won an argument with a Liberal.
Yes, I CanChat. Can You? www.fiberal.ca]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Western-seperation-10784151 Thu, 15 Jul 2004 14:11:34 EDT Re: Western seperation? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Western-seperation-10783708
Canada is up into 4th best place to live according to the UN. So, please check this out separatists: »www.thestar.com/NASApp/c ··· 93972154]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Western-seperation-10783708 Thu, 15 Jul 2004 13:21:45 EDT Re: Western seperation? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Western-seperation-10783702 said by darkeans:
V950. your logic is flawed. belinda is from ontario that is the reason she would be more palatable to ontario.

again pls present evidence of harper having a hidden agenda.!

I would vote for Belinda if I felt her philosophies best represented mine. I also feel more comfortable with her presence and would not feel the same way around her that I would with Harper. Although it could be because she's a she and I feel that women are better are organising and running projects then men are.

As for "Harper's Hidden Agenda" I've never said once that I believe he has one. I just don't like the man so I don't want him running my country.

It's that simple.
--
Maybe one day, when the human race can grow beyond the need to invoke a deity everytime they wish to justify their actions, vs taking responsibility themselves, the world may become a safer place.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Western-seperation-10783702 Thu, 15 Jul 2004 13:20:44 EDT Re: Western seperation? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Western-seperation-10783659 said by darkeans:
or you are just caving into the lies about harper being perpetrated by the LIEberals.!

V950. you say regress. i honestly believe the world was a gentler place 150 yrs ago. people were more committed to family and community. today it's all about 'me'.

As far as an american wannabe. of course. i like star wars, marvel comics, internet and microsoft. don't U.? or am i missing your point.?

I personally believe that the American system is not one to be emulated - especially with the way they've been acting these past few years so I do not feel it would be in Canada's best interests to emulate them with a greater degree than we already do.

From what I read (and no, I've never visited the Liberal website nor did I watch anything about the election on TV) Harper's personal political philosophies do not merge with mine - so much so that he makes me feel uncomfortable and comes across as an individual who is not looking out for my best interests.

I never have said that I feel any more comfortable with Paul Martin (although I felt very comfortable with Jean Chretien - too bad he retired) either, but at least he is a known entity who's personal political philosophies mesh better with mine than Harper's does.

Jack Layton's philosophies meshed the best with mine which is why I supported his party.

It's not what the party platforms are that sway my vote one way or another as all the platforms are pretty much the same just built differently. It's the personal presentation of the leader of the party that does. I really don't pay any attention to what the Liberals say about the Conservatives say about the Bloc say about the NDP etc., I vote for who I feel represents my outlook the best and Stephen Harper does not represent my outlook at all.

It has nothing to do with what the Liberal campaign engine says about him, I formulate my own impressions based on my own research.

Also, visually, there is something about Harper that makes me not trust him - kind of like a 6th sense if you will. I would not feel comfortable sitting in the same room with him and thus, I do not feel comfortable with him running my country.

As for American wannabe - yes, you are missing my point. It has nothing to do with the goods and services produced by the United States. They are very good at making stuff that I have to spend money on. It has everything to do with their value system which, while parts of it are good, other parts are not.

To use your line of thinking, you shouldn't even be driving a car or taking a bus or flying a plane as you know full well that revenue gained from the sale of oil from the Middle East has gone to fund terrorist organizations like the Osama's group and others.

The value of commerce and the values of a society are two different things. I enjoy the choices I have in the acquisition of goods and services from other countries but that doesn't mean that I want my country to be forced to emulate the social underpinnings of another country. Just because I have a Toshiba TV doesn't mean I want our society to become more Japanese in function.

You are comparing Apples to Internal Combustion Engines here.
--
Maybe one day, when the human race can grow beyond the need to invoke a deity everytime they wish to justify their actions, vs taking responsibility themselves, the world may become a safer place.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Western-seperation-10783659 Thu, 15 Jul 2004 13:17:11 EDT Re: Western seperation? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Western-seperation-10783114
again pls present evidence of harper having a hidden agenda.!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Western-seperation-10783114 Thu, 15 Jul 2004 12:22:01 EDT Re: Western seperation? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Western-seperation-10781944 said by Vendetta950:
said by Snickerdo3:
said by Vendetta950:
You want the Conservatives to take the reins? Get rid of Harper.
Basically, what Vendetta is saying is that Ontarians are too stupid to vote for someone who isn't from Ontario or Quebec.

Read into things what you will. I really don't care where the party leader is from, it's all in how they present themselves.

And many found in Harper's presentation a regressive thinking American wannabe.

Harper could have been from Winnipeg and I still wouldn't have voted for him - he just didn't make me feel comfortable and I didn't trust him or what he had to say.

It's that level of trust that was missing - not the fact that he was from Alberta.


I have to disagree to a point.. The only people who portrayed Harper as an American wannabe would be the Liberal propoganda. You have to admit, if there was anything that was "American" in this past election it was the Liberal's campaign of slander ads. Regardless of the issues/policies it's sad to see Canada following suit in elections with this kind of crap. How about showing what your party stands for? Do a side by side comparison? I guess that doesn't get the votes like scare tactics do.

As for how the leaders portrayed themselves.. Did you watch the debates? Did you see how uncomfortable Martin was in those? He kept rocking back and forth from foot to foot while talking, besides making me dizzy from all the movement (a la Blair Witch Project with the camera chasing him from side to side), it left an air of insincerity about him while he answered questions. I thought Harper was under control and handled himself well, he basically let Layton and Martin fight..

I should also point out, I was very happy when Martin took the reigns from Chretien, I had a lot of respect for him until all of the scandal information started getting out. Now I have nil, and Harper I thought was a good alternative. Instead we run with the status quo!
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Hail to the Nipple-Titan.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Western-seperation-10781944 Thu, 15 Jul 2004 10:04:38 EDT Re: Western seperation? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Western-seperation-10781910
V950. you say regress. i honestly believe the world was a gentler place 150 yrs ago. people were more committed to family and community. today it's all about 'me'.

As far as an american wannabe. of course. i like star wars, marvel comics, internet and microsoft. don't U.? or am i missing your point.?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Western-seperation-10781910 Thu, 15 Jul 2004 09:58:54 EDT Re: Western seperation? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Western-seperation-10781767 said by Riamen:
said by Snickerdo3:
said by Vendetta950:
You want the Conservatives to take the reins? Get rid of Harper.
Basically, what Vendetta is saying is that Ontarians are too stupid to vote for someone who isn't from Ontario or Quebec.
Maybe Harper should have played up the fact that he was born and raised in Toronto. He's only lived the last 20 years or so in Calgary.


I really think voters east of Manitoba deserve a little more credit then they are being given by some around here.

People don't vote solely on the basis of where in the country a party leader hails from, they vote on the policies of that party. The Conservative party failed to convince many voters that their policies were worth voting for. It's really as simple as that.

Just because Alice thinks one party's platform is utterly sound, based on common sense, and just what the country needs doesn't mean that Bob will agree.

I'm really getting sick and tired of being called names because I didn't vote Conservative. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Western-seperation-10781767 Thu, 15 Jul 2004 09:33:22 EDT Re: Western seperation? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Western-seperation-10781688 said by Snickerdo3:
said by Vendetta950:
You want the Conservatives to take the reins? Get rid of Harper.
Basically, what Vendetta is saying is that Ontarians are too stupid to vote for someone who isn't from Ontario or Quebec.
Maybe Harper should have played up the fact that he was born and raised in Toronto. He's only lived the last 20 years or so in Calgary.

I actually think Harper is a lot more moderate than people give him credit for. I'm sure when the Conservatives finally hold their policy convention there will be noticeable shift toward the centre.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Western-seperation-10781688 Thu, 15 Jul 2004 09:19:09 EDT Re: Western seperation? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Western-seperation-10781435 said by Snickerdo3:
said by Vendetta950:
You want the Conservatives to take the reins? Get rid of Harper.
Basically, what Vendetta is saying is that Ontarians are too stupid to vote for someone who isn't from Ontario or Quebec.

Read into things what you will. I really don't care where the party leader is from, it's all in how they present themselves.

And many found in Harper's presentation a regressive thinking American wannabe.

Harper could have been from Winnipeg and I still wouldn't have voted for him - he just didn't make me feel comfortable and I didn't trust him or what he had to say.

It's that level of trust that was missing - not the fact that he was from Alberta.
--
Maybe one day, when the human race can grow beyond the need to invoke a deity everytime they wish to justify their actions, vs taking responsibility themselves, the world may become a safer place.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Western-seperation-10781435 Thu, 15 Jul 2004 08:22:18 EDT Re: Western seperation? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Western-seperation-10779698 said by Vendetta950:
You want the Conservatives to take the reins? Get rid of Harper.
Basically, what Vendetta is saying is that Ontarians are too stupid to vote for someone who isn't from Ontario or Quebec.
--
Bigot - Someone that has won an argument with a Liberal.
Yes, I CanChat. Can You? www.fiberal.ca]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Western-seperation-10779698 Thu, 15 Jul 2004 00:06:22 EDT Re: Western seperation? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Western-seperation-10779468 said by darkeans:
i am confussed by ontario's sterotype of western canadians as being redneck cowboys with hidden agendas. we've laid our cards on the table. you know where we stand with all current issues.

Yes, and that's what scared the crap out of most of us who DIDN'T vote Conservative.

I still say that it's too bad Belinda didn't become party leader - the election may have turned out very differently.

You want the Conservatives to take the reins? Get rid of Harper.
--
Maybe one day, when the human race can grow beyond the need to invoke a deity everytime they wish to justify their actions, vs taking responsibility themselves, the world may become a safer place.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Western-seperation-10779468 Wed, 14 Jul 2004 23:40:26 EDT Re: Western seperation? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Western-seperation-10777834
i also agree with snickerdude in his assistance about the conservatives and why they can't soften their stance. the western would once again feel alienated and give rise to another west based party.

i am confussed by ontario's sterotype of western canadians as being redneck cowboys with hidden agendas. we've laid our cards on the table. you know where we stand with all current issues.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Western-seperation-10777834 Wed, 14 Jul 2004 20:54:07 EDT Re: Western seperation? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Western-seperation-10768889 said by Feets:
I sincerely hope that the progressives regain control of the party from the 'regressives' and that the "Liberal fear mongering" as everyone seems to like calling it really does turn out to be baseless.
By that token, I wouldn't consider Harper to be a regressive. He's not a Stockwell Day or Darryl Stinson. Harper is just thought of as one because he represents a Calgary riding. In addition, not many people realize that he left the Reform Party when he and Preston Manning had a big disagreement - Preston Manning wanted a more socially conservative, populist party, while Stephen Harper wanted a socially libertarian, economically conservative party. Do not call Harper a regressive until you read up on his history with the Reform Party. Now that there are 25 MPs from Ontario in the Conservative caucus and they have representation from every province except PEI and Quebec, things will start to balance out on the policy front.
said by Feets:
My only point with regard to the election results was that 65% or so of the voters didn't vote Conservative, and I am speculating that a big reason they didn't get more votes and more seats (as many (including yourself) predicted) was because of the worry that the Conservative party shared the view held by darkeans : that the values of 150 years ago were preferable to those of today. It seems to me that the farther they move away from the hard-right social agenda, the better they do, which is fine by me.
It's a touch balancing act, because if you move towards the Harris-style Economic Conservative to please Ontario, Quebec and Atlantic Canada, you alienate Western Canada. Continue their populist ways, and they alienate everything east of the Ottawa River and most of urban and Northern Ontario. It's a real tough call. The Liberals, meanwhile, don't have to bother with any of this because they know one way or another they'll win seats in Ontario, regardless of how bad they do.
said by Feets:
Liberal/NDP campaigning aside, it is ultimately up to the conservative party to convince voters that they do not intend to turn back the social values clock. I think they failed to do that this time around, and that is why they didn't fare as well as they would have hoped. That's just my opinion, though. I'm no political scientist, just an opinionated Canadian.
Regardless what anyone says, it was Randy White who ruined it for us Conservatives. Randy White is a principled man and in no way would I consider him an extremest - he represents a Bible Belt riding, what more do you expect? He does tend to fall on to the more regressive side of things, however. :huh:
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Bigot - Someone that has won an argument with a Liberal.
Yes, I CanChat. Can You? www.fiberal.ca]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Western-seperation-10768889 Tue, 13 Jul 2004 22:15:46 EDT Re: Western seperation? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Western-seperation-10768720 said by Snickerdo3:
Election results? There are now 100 Tory MPs in the House of Commons, 35 less than the Liberals, and they have a quarter of the seats in Ontario. Regardless of your own personal opinion, there is still a large chunk of Canadians in this country that do not agree with your opinion, myself being one of them.


I sincerely hope that the progressives regain control of the party from the 'regressives' and that the "Liberal fear mongering" as everyone seems to like calling it really does turn out to be baseless.

My only point with regard to the election results was that 65% or so of the voters didn't vote Conservative, and I am speculating that a big reason they didn't get more votes and more seats (as many (including yourself) predicted) was because of the worry that the Conservative party shared the view held by darkeans : that the values of 150 years ago were preferable to those of today. It seems to me that the farther they move away from the hard-right social agenda, the better they do, which is fine by me.

Liberal/NDP campaigning aside, it is ultimately up to the conservative party to convince voters that they do not intend to turn back the social values clock. I think they failed to do that this time around, and that is why they didn't fare as well as they would have hoped. That's just my opinion, though. I'm no political scientist, just an opinionated Canadian. :) ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Western-seperation-10768720 Tue, 13 Jul 2004 21:54:01 EDT Re: Western seperation? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Western-seperation-10766404 said by Feets:
Lots of Canadians would appear to disagree with you, and would prefer to keep our country moving in a progressive, forward direction, not a backward direction. Hence, the latest election results.
Election results? There are now 100 Tory MPs in the House of Commons, 35 less than the Liberals, and they have a quarter of the seats in Ontario. Regardless of your own personal opinion, there is still a large chunk of Canadians in this country that do not agree with your opinion, myself being one of them.

My MP is a Conservative MP. He was a Progressive Conservative MP from 1984 to 1993, was a Cabinet Minister in the Campbell Government, and is very well respected. People like Rob Nicholson are the ones who are going to show Canadians that Liberal fear mongering is baseless, and that there is a sound alternative in the Conservative party. Besides, we're in for an election pretty soon. Jack Layton's arrogance won't let this government last much longer then a year, though I would not be surprised at all if the Liberals and Conservatives get together and pass a budget just to shut Jack and his Clan out of the power brokering.
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Bigot - Someone that has won an argument with a Liberal.
Yes, I CanChat. Can You? www.fiberal.ca]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Western-seperation-10766404 Tue, 13 Jul 2004 17:43:29 EDT Re: Western seperation? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Western-seperation-10763290 said by darkeans:
V950. Pls explain this legacy connection the Conservatives have to the Reform/Alliance.


You been living in a box? Harper was the leader of the Canadian Alliance party before they merged with/took over the Progressive Conservative Party. He was also the Chief Policy Officer for the Reform Party when they were founded. Many of the party members and candidates come from the Reform/Alliance days. That's the legacy.

said by darkeans:
So I'm all for the daily values and concerns people had 150 years ago. Based upon what I am currently seeing, I think we are degressing.


Lots of Canadians would appear to disagree with you, and would prefer to keep our country moving in a progressive, forward direction, not a backward direction. Hence, the latest election results.

The only thing I see "degressing" around here is spelling, grammar, and vocabulary. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Western-seperation-10763290 Tue, 13 Jul 2004 12:07:32 EDT Re: Western seperation? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Western-seperation-10763279 said by darkeans:
V950. Pls explain this legacy connection the Conservatives have to the Reform/Alliance.

I believe the legacy you are referring to is the liberal slander and fear mongering of the Harper that Fishpants and I were alluding to. For fact we know the Liberals were thieves. It is only speculation and conjecture that Harper are the KKK or whatever you are alluding to.

Turning back time to 150 years, some would argue would be a good thing. Life was simpler then. I also believe families and communities were more closly knit.

So I'm all for the daily values and concerns people had 150 years ago. Based upon what I am currently seeing, I think we are degressing.


I agree, core values 150 years ago were a lot stronger than they are today. Progression doesn't have to equate to desensitazation and liberalization (sorry I am at a loss for the exact word I am looking for here). I am all for being an open minded society, but simple things like TV programming is way out of wack. I am not a bible thumper that believes we need to watch disney movies around the clock, however crap like CSI that seems to sensationalize violence during prime time programming is getting to me. I used to like CSI, now it seems they just use a coroner hacking apart a corpse to get ratings.

Woah sorry, way off on a tangent now. I think I need to eat lunch.
--
Hail to the Nipple-Titan.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Western-seperation-10763279 Tue, 13 Jul 2004 12:06:42 EDT Re: Western seperation? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Western-seperation-10763214
I believe the legacy you are referring to is the liberal slander and fear mongering of the Harper that Fishpants and I were alluding to. For fact we know the Liberals were thieves. It is only speculation and conjecture that Harper are the KKK or whatever you are alluding to.

Turning back time to 150 years, some would argue would be a good thing. Life was simpler then. I also believe families and communities were more closly knit.

So I'm all for the daily values and concerns people had 150 years ago. Based upon what I am currently seeing, I think we are degressing.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Western-seperation-10763214 Tue, 13 Jul 2004 11:59:19 EDT Re: Western seperation? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Western-seperation-10761967 said by darkeans:
Fishpants, I am also sickened by how our voters were conned by the liberals and media's scare tactics. I guess my fellow Canadians are not really that bright.

Why is it wrong to question the decisions of our government, why is it wrong to ask for changes, to make Canada a better country.? To make our government more accountable. V950 it sounds like you are one of the Canadians that were brainwashed (see Fishpants post above).

Where do you get the idea that Canadians were brainwashed to vote Liberal in the last election? Are you making an assumption that I voted Liberal?

I'm sorry but until the Conservatives can eliminate all traces of Alliance/Reform ideologies from their new party it will be a long time coming until they will ever sit in the top chair. There was nothing revolutionary with their platform - just a strong desire to copy the American system and turn the hands of time back 150 years.

I look for progression in life. Humanity is nothing without progress. And while there was little in the way of progress in any of the four major party platforms this year, at least the Liberals, NDP, and Bloc were not regressive in their thinking.

It's not wrong to question the decisions of our government, that's what "government for the people" is all about. I question the government all the time. No, the Liberals are not perfect and the number of seats they currently hold shows that. Let's see what can happen with their Minority.

Right now I'm paying very close attention to what Mr. Martin is going to do about the US's request to install missile defence systems on our land (of which private American investors own most of now but that's a different thread to discuss).

This is something that I do not want nor do I think is necessary. Will Mr. Martin wait until Parliament sits before providing the US with "our" decision? This will be interesting.

Just because the Liberals are holding on to a minority government doesn't mean Canadians were brainwashed - just means they didn't feel the Conservatives were worthy of taking the top job and running the country the way it needs to be run.

With that I agree.
--
Maybe one day, when the human race can grow beyond the need to invoke a deity everytime they wish to justify their actions, vs taking responsibility themselves, the world may become a safer place.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Western-seperation-10761967 Tue, 13 Jul 2004 08:36:15 EDT