AT&T Southeast → [General] General Questions about Bellsouth and Backbones

Hello all let me start off by saying that i am happy bellsouth customer and have been for about 3 years. I just recently found this website and have been learning a lot of things such as how the internet works and how all these xdsl companies are in competition with each other trying to give better and cheaper deals than their competitors.

I am in the market of looking for a fast internet access (1.5 mbits/sec down / 786 kbits/sec up) for a business to run a internet gaming server on. Now because of this website i have learned and done some research on some things that i never knew about such as CLECS (competitive local exchange carrier). Which from what i understand are companies that are able to buy or rent from bellsouth lines at wholesale price that is fixed by the government so that they can be in competition with bellsouth which is better for us the customer. Now there is one reason that i am scared of using a CLEC which i will explain in a story in the next paragraph.

Let me start off by saying my friends and i all live on the same block we all live in Miami, Fl and we all use bellsouth ADSL with the same plan and we have bellsouth phone lines.. we always play internet first person shooter games on East Coast servers with great pings (BTW we ping like 60 to east coast and about 120 to west coast just to give you guys an idea). One day one of my friends changed to earthlink adsl which was the same speed as his previous connection with bellsouth adsl. However, after he made his change he would ping 120 to east coast servers but very good ( about 60 ) to west coast servers as was the opposite to us. Of course the rest of us would ping like normal 60 to east and 120 to west. So basically my friend changed back to bellsouth and everything was back to normal. BTW if it matters this was maybe 2 years ago.

What im trying to get at is by using a CLEC i thought we were supposed to get the same EXACT performance as we would through the ILEC ( incumbent local exchange carrier ) which in this case was Bellsouth. I thought a CLEC is in the same Central Office where the DSLAM is as is the ILEC which would give me the same ping just with a different company. Please correct me if i am wrong. And if possible please tell me all the different CLECS available in Miami, Fl just so i can see all my options...
Thanks in Advance
Eddie

You've made a some assumptions here.

First off, Earthlink isn't a CLEC. It's an ISP, and more pertinent to your situation, a Bellsouth partner ISP. That is, they use Bellsouth's DSLAMs and ATM network, just like other partner ISPs do to connect you to the internet at a location and backbone of Earthlink's choosing, just like Bellsouth the ISP does.

A CLEC would have their own DSLAMs in the CO and their own ATM network.

The only thing common between ILEC and CLEC provided service is the phone line itself, and that has no bearing on the quality of the service since it's the same line that would be used in either case.

And even with CLEC provided service, there is no assurance it will be any better, or worse, that ILEC provided service provided by the ILEC's own ISP (Bellsouth.net service on Bellsouth's facilities) or another partner ISP's service (there are many, many dozens, perhaps hundreds) on Bellsouth's facilities.

The difference in performance you are seeing is due backbone routing. Each ISP makes his own choice as to who provides that connectivity to the internet, and there can be huge variations in the quality of that portion of the service, even in the same market city.

For example, there are at least 8 major backbone providers providing service to the Miami area. Most ISPs chose connectivity to one or maybe two of these. Some connect to more. The ISP I last used connected to an upstream that used all 8 of them, so the routing was always at least as good as any other ISP, and often considerably better depending on where you needed to route to.

As for the LECs in the Miami, I am aware of these. Bellsouth is the ILEC, of course. The CLECs ATT, Covad, and DSLi are in some, but not all COs.

As to who can serve you out of your CO, you'll just have to ask ISPs who operate thru those LECs and see if they can provide service to you or not.

Thank you very much for that information graysonf you indeed know what you are talking about by being able to explain it to me in a clear condensed manner..

I guess the questions i should be asking is...

1) Where is my CO

2) What backbone(s) does Bellsouth use

Now with that information i can compare it too

3) What CLECs provide service through that CO

4) What backbone(s) do those CLECs use

Which can also be compared to

5) What other partner ISP's does Bellsouth have

6) Which are the ones i can use

7) What backbone(s) do those ISP's use

Once i get all that data i can make my educated decision and hope for the best.... please tell me if that is a correct train of thought there...

Also i know that i most likely wont get answers to all those questions here in the forums but Do ISP's and CLECs give up that kind of information easily or do their tech 1 support even know what any of that is?

Thank in Advance
Eddie

1) There is a CO finder tool on this site. Find it and put your phone number in and it should tell you your CO and estimated distance to it.

2) Not sure who Bellsouth is using these days for backbones. I do know that, in the past, they used Alternet and Level3.

3) I don't know how to tell what CLECs serve which COs. One way to find out would be to ask someone who knows for sure, like a Bellsouth worker who has been in the CO or somehow actually knows this. Another is to try to qualify for service with an ISP know to use a CLEC.

4) As to what backbones CLECs use, that's not relevant. It's what backbones their ISPs use that counts.

5) There are too many Bellsouth partner ISPs to mention, and I doubt anybody other than Bellsouth could even know them all. Only the big ones do any significant advertising, leaving the rest of them mostly unknown. In your market area, there are certainly at least a dozen. Some will only cover the local area, some will cover all of SE FL, others will cover more of FL, others will cover more or most of Bellsouth's nine state region.

6) You can use any Bellsouth partner ISP that is willing to serve you. The hard part is finding out who they are, since like I said, most don't do a lot of advertising.

7) If you find a partner ISP and want to know who their backbone provider is, that's easy. Call them up and ask. A traceroute to them will also give you at least one of them, if they have more than one. IMHO, the hot setup in this area is anyone who connects thru InterNAP. Last count I did was they connected to 8 backbones.

No idea how much any of this a level 1 tech would know. The sales agents at smaller partner ISPs would either know it or know where to ask if they want to make a sale. There is no way huge ISPs sales agents have this type of information at their finger tips, and unless you are talking about something other than a $50/month service, they would have no incentive to chase that information down for you.

I cant thank you enough for taking the time to help me out. Thank you again for clarifying things for me. Let me sum up what you said to see if i fully understand now...

A Partner ISP

- A Partner ISP uses the same Central Office as Bellsouth

- A Partner ISP uses the same DSLAM and ATM network as Bellsouth

- A Partner ISP uses whatever backbone the partner ISP wants to use which does not have to be the same as Bellsouth however it could be the same if the partner ISP wanted to

A CLEC

- A CLEC uses the same Central Office as Bellsouth

- A CLEC uses their own DSLAM and ATM network inside Bellsouth's Central Office

- A CLEC uses the same backbone as the ISP which in this case is Bellsouth

Now please tell me im correct...

Thank in Advance
Eddie

All right except this one

- A CLEC uses the same backbone as the ISP which in this case is Bellsouth

A CLEC is just the DSLAM and ATM network provider. They have their own partner ISPs who decide which backbone providers they want to use.