Topic 'Re: Why doesnt MS remove IE and let us choose?!' in forum '' - dslreports.com http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Why-doesnt-MS-remove-IE-and-let-us-choose-12190105 en Sat, 26 Mar 2022 03:52:04 EDT Sat, 26 Mar 2022 03:52:04 EDT Re: Why doesnt MS remove IE and let us choose?! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Why-doesnt-MS-remove-IE-and-let-us-choose-12321622 said by ifbot:
ftp ftp.mozilla.org

cd /pub/mozilla.org/firefox/releases/1.0/win32/en-US/

get Firefox%201.0.zip


and of course, you found out this info without a web browser.
--
got anti-virus and firewall?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Why-doesnt-MS-remove-IE-and-let-us-choose-12321622 Fri, 07 Jan 2005 17:53:27 EDT Re: Why doesnt MS remove IE and let us choose?! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Why-doesnt-MS-remove-IE-and-let-us-choose-12321602 said by ifbot:

ftp ftp.mozilla.org

cd /pub/mozilla.org/firefox/releases/1.0/win32/en-US/

get Firefox%201.0.zip

LOL!! Yeah, the average soccer Mom or techno-phobe would have no problem with that.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Why-doesnt-MS-remove-IE-and-let-us-choose-12321602 Fri, 07 Jan 2005 17:50:21 EDT Re: Why doesnt MS remove IE and let us choose?! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Why-doesnt-MS-remove-IE-and-let-us-choose-12320894
cd /pub/mozilla.org/firefox/releases/1.0/win32/en-US/

get Firefox%201.0.zip

actually, you don't need IE at all download anything except windows updates and hotfixes, and you could actually download those via FTP too, atleast the Service packs...

but unfortuanatly IE and Windows Explorer being practicaly the same app as Explorer is the Windows Shell, it becomes very hard to seperate... but we like it that way, or else how would we allow malicisous websites to install applications on our Windows machines for us?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Why-doesnt-MS-remove-IE-and-let-us-choose-12320894 Fri, 07 Jan 2005 16:29:37 EDT Re: Why doesnt MS remove IE and let us choose?! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Why-doesnt-MS-remove-IE-and-let-us-choose-12226048 said by Combat Chuck:

Even if you are aware of how to use FTP, how are you going to know what the address of the FTP site is. I seriously doubt if any but the dorkiest geeks know a firefox mirror by heart.
Comeon, users should be able to guess the IP of the site - j/k :D
--
Nikon D70 DSLR, Hoya HMC 67mm UV Filter, Nikkor 18-70mm f3.5-4.6, Nikkor 50mm f/1.8, Sigma 70-300mm f/4-5.6 APO Macro Super II, Lexar 40x 512MB CF]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Why-doesnt-MS-remove-IE-and-let-us-choose-12226048 Mon, 27 Dec 2004 17:17:52 EDT Re: Why doesnt MS remove IE and let us choose?! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Why-doesnt-MS-remove-IE-and-let-us-choose-12224979 said by elias:

said by SixSpeed:

Why would people (grandmothers, housewives, and non-geekers) want to complicate their computing experience with command lines and such?
So they can be uber 1337.

-- Elias
»www.gphan.com/1337basics.php]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Why-doesnt-MS-remove-IE-and-let-us-choose-12224979 Mon, 27 Dec 2004 15:00:18 EDT Re: Why doesnt MS remove IE and let us choose?! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Why-doesnt-MS-remove-IE-and-let-us-choose-12224910 said by SixSpeed:

Why would people (grandmothers, housewives, and non-geekers) want to complicate their computing experience with command lines and such? So they can be uber 1337.

-- Elias
--
Crunching the Midnight Oil]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Why-doesnt-MS-remove-IE-and-let-us-choose-12224910 Mon, 27 Dec 2004 14:52:10 EDT Re: Why doesnt MS remove IE and let us choose?! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Why-doesnt-MS-remove-IE-and-let-us-choose-12224355 said by TamaraB:


said by JacksGhost:

THATS RIGHT Lazy people who wanted nothing to do with command prompts. No need to learn, just point and click.
You hit the nail squarely on the head! A LAZY and perpetually ignorant public is the core problem; not ONLY with computers and their proper secure use, but with the entire political/economic system in the US as well. Microsoft merely takes advantage of this lazy apathy, and so does the government.

I am sure that most of us in the IT business hear this many times... "Do I really need to know that"? The publics disdain of having to "know" something, is a symptom of the lazy self-indulgent society we live it; and represents the core group of people who have made Microsoft the monopoly it is today.

Bob
This is perhaps one of the most off kilter rants I have ever heard. Fact is, not everyone wants, or needs to lean command line computing. They don't even care to know it exists. Fact is, what you call a problem is actually a convenience to most people. You are in the minority when speaking of alternate browsers and such. for 99% of the computing public, all they want is email and web surfing, they don't care how. Microsoft became big and powerful because they give the public what it wants, ease of use, convenience, lack of "geekieness" and one stop computing. Im in the IT field and cant even begin to agree with your point of view. Why would people (grandmothers, housewives, and non-geekers) want to complicate their computing experience with command lines and such?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Why-doesnt-MS-remove-IE-and-let-us-choose-12224355 Mon, 27 Dec 2004 13:44:49 EDT Re: Why doesnt MS remove IE and let us choose?! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Why-doesnt-MS-remove-IE-and-let-us-choose-12223962
said by JacksGhost:

THATS RIGHT Lazy people who wanted nothing to do with command prompts. No need to learn, just point and click.
You hit the nail squarely on the head! A LAZY and perpetually ignorant public is the core problem; not ONLY with computers and their proper secure use, but with the entire political/economic system in the US as well. Microsoft merely takes advantage of this lazy apathy, and so does the government.

I am sure that most of us in the IT business hear this many times... "Do I really need to know that"? The publics disdain of having to "know" something, is a symptom of the lazy self-indulgent society we live it; and represents the core group of people who have made Microsoft the monopoly it is today.

Bob
--
Motor Vessel - Tamara B.
43' Long-Range Trawler
Cape Elizebeth ME.
See her Here.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Why-doesnt-MS-remove-IE-and-let-us-choose-12223962 Mon, 27 Dec 2004 12:55:27 EDT Re: Why doesnt MS remove IE and let us choose?! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Why-doesnt-MS-remove-IE-and-let-us-choose-12219641 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Why-doesnt-MS-remove-IE-and-let-us-choose-12219641 Sun, 26 Dec 2004 21:05:59 EDT Re: Why doesnt MS remove IE and let us choose?! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Why-doesnt-MS-remove-IE-and-let-us-choose-12207080
What most people FAIL to see ( on this site with the so well informed ) is mom and pops in Floriduh that done even know where the bloody start button is.

Did Netscrape or any other browser company offer to pay part of the production costs for shipping and offer to distribute their browsers?

What the whole ' monopoly ' lawsuit did to the tech secotr was distribute the wealth from those who pushed the limits to those with no intestional fortitude.

I use a G4 and a Linux box. *I* don;t have any MS products at all ( cept a IR mouse ). Whats the rest of everyone elses excuses?

MS and Gates saw a market of lazy individuals. THATS RIGHT Lazy people who wanted nothing to do with command prompts. No need to learn, just point and click. They were the First AOHell. People bought off on it and became dependent on THEIR operations systems.

"So anyone that claims that "MS simply made a better browser", really doesn't understand the whole picture of what went on, and what still goes on today."

I see the whole picture. Your in 'Sue happy, pass my fat ass a whopper' America. Forget doing it on yer own. Make a half assed attempt at something and when your squished, cry foul play.

All the court rulings in teh world wont help the tech sector endless the lemmings that purchase products do their homework. Its not gonna happen.

Its that simple.

I think MS should be allowed to close all porting on THEIR O/S. Maybe the GNU folks would step to plate and get serious with Linux. Turn up the heat even.

jAX.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Why-doesnt-MS-remove-IE-and-let-us-choose-12207080 Fri, 24 Dec 2004 18:31:26 EDT Re: Why doesnt MS remove IE and let us choose?! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Why-doesnt-MS-remove-IE-and-let-us-choose-12203721 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Why-doesnt-MS-remove-IE-and-let-us-choose-12203721 Fri, 24 Dec 2004 10:00:59 EDT Re: Why doesnt MS remove IE and let us choose?! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Why-doesnt-MS-remove-IE-and-let-us-choose-12203290 said by VirtualLarry:

said by Mike:


MS can do whatever the hell they want with THEIR software that you (usually) have a LICENSE to use.
Do you think that Micron can produce memory ("their" chips), and give them away, or sell them at below cost, specifically to destroy their competitor(s)? NO! In this country, that's illegal.
Id have to see some case law or other supporting information to back up that claim. You are saying that if a company came out with super cheap quality memory they would have to charge more for it to keep the government happy? LOL!!!!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Why-doesnt-MS-remove-IE-and-let-us-choose-12203290 Fri, 24 Dec 2004 07:53:19 EDT Re: Why doesnt MS remove IE and let us choose?! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Why-doesnt-MS-remove-IE-and-let-us-choose-12200853 said by ShootToThril:

Oh yeah... It doesn't do Active X which is needed on some websites like Ebay.Really?
I have had NO problem with ANY site I have visited.

Bob
--
Motor Vessel - Tamara B.
43' Long-Range Trawler
Cape Elizebeth ME.
See her Here.
Click for full size
]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Why-doesnt-MS-remove-IE-and-let-us-choose-12200853 Thu, 23 Dec 2004 21:29:23 EDT Re: Why doesnt MS remove IE and let us choose?! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Why-doesnt-MS-remove-IE-and-let-us-choose-12200162 said by cmaenginsb1:

As to the idea that including a free product makes it harder to compete there are many examples of where this isn't excatly true. After all the server versions of windows have had a backup utility since at least 4.0 but I don't see Backup Exec, Arcserve or any of the more expensive backup products suffering.Actually, NTBackup was a cut-down version of Backup Exec, I think, and the Win9x Backup was a cut-down version of Arcada Backup.
said by cmaenginsb1:

They simply made a product that worked better. The same thing is true with communications programs that compete with hyperterminal (well they really don't compete.)

This big difference is of course the fact that unlike many of the free addons that MS has included in the past, IE is actually a viable tool. This just forces the competition to go to a higher level and offer and even better product. In a way if you think about it MS is giving us innovation by forcing the other browsers to offer a product that is better.
But that completely overlooks a number of factors. I personally have no problem with MS bundling a browser. With the rise of the WWW and internet access, it came an essential tool of modern computing. (For years, TCP/IP stacks have also included related essential tools, like ping, telnet, ftp, nslookup, arp, etc. clients.)

But the problem, was that MS took things a step further. They started cutting deals with ISPs, to only support IE. If a user was having connectivity problems, the ISP would refuse to help their very own customer, if they were using a browser of their choice. Only IE users mattered.

Likewise, MS started requiring their own sites, at one point, such as Hotmail and MSN, and Zone.com, to require IE for access. Using Netscape would result in an error page and getting no-where.

That last point was actually especially critical to me, because I was working for a brief stint (as an independent contractor) for the company that eventually became Turbine, and who developed one of the very first premium-rate games to be featured on zone.com, Asheron's Call.

Although I was assured via my inside contacts at the company, that zone.com would be a cross-platform site and support Netscape, it took MS nearly a year to do so. This was at the height of the browser wars.

Things like that, the outright blocking of services for non-IE users, are where MS was really hitting competitors below the belt. It had nothing to do with whether or not one browser was "superior" than the other, or how well it rendered HTML, but rather it came down to discrimination designed for one purpose only - to promote IE and destroy all competitors.

It would be like, Microsoft purchasing a bus company, and then asking all non-white people to sit in back, or denying them the ability to ride the bus at all. That's what it was like, being a non-IE user, trying to access the various online services that MS had any control over whatsoever. Unfortunately, MS has a lot of control in a lot of places, which is why their monopoly is so hard to dislodge.

So anyone that claims that "MS simply made a better browser", really doesn't understand the whole picture of what went on, and what still goes on today.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Why-doesnt-MS-remove-IE-and-let-us-choose-12200162 Thu, 23 Dec 2004 19:56:57 EDT Re: Why doesnt MS remove IE and let us choose?! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Why-doesnt-MS-remove-IE-and-let-us-choose-12200052 said by Mike:

MS can do whatever the hell they want with THEIR software that you (usually) have a LICENSE to use.Not when it violates established legal principles that prohibit abusive use of a monopoly position in a market, or other strongly anti-competitive behavior.

Do you think that Micron can produce memory ("their" chips), and give them away, or sell them at below cost, specifically to destroy their competitor(s)? NO! In this country, that's illegal.

Why everyone seems to labor under the mistaken belief that MS is "above the law", is beyond me. I mean, they even tried to fake a tape in front of a federal judge! How much more brazen can any one company get at flouting the law? Maybe MS's one true invention, is that they did invent some sort of novel mind-control technique. Perhaps the "reality distortion field" is real. Or possibly, 99% of the populace is just ignorant of the facts, and chooses to believe whatever MS spoon-feeds them, like "MS software is the best, because it is the most-widely used". Last time I checked, McDonalds was not listed among the best five-star restaraunts world-wide...]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Why-doesnt-MS-remove-IE-and-let-us-choose-12200052 Thu, 23 Dec 2004 19:40:25 EDT Re: Why doesnt MS remove IE and let us choose?! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Why-doesnt-MS-remove-IE-and-let-us-choose-12199925
Firefox has most of those built-in. The extensions just add even more customizable functionality, which is a Good Thing.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Why-doesnt-MS-remove-IE-and-let-us-choose-12199925 Thu, 23 Dec 2004 19:23:43 EDT Re: Why doesnt MS remove IE and let us choose?! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Why-doesnt-MS-remove-IE-and-let-us-choose-12199905 said by SixSpeed:

said by jeffyjeff777:


My original point was not so much that it's impossible to download a browser without a browser, but that it would be pretty dumb if MS were to remove IE from windows just to let us decide what we browser we wanted, becasue then it would be hard for most people to download anything without a browser...and while FTP is still a common thing (I use it almost everyday, mainly for uploading to my website), the majority of internet users have probably never even heard of it, so why do we want to put the cart before the horse and confuse people even more by making them download their favorite browser through FTP?
Id say most of us understood that just fine and your point was made quite well. There are unfortunately others who will never agree because of some blind, meaningless, ignorant vendetta against Microsoft. For crying out loud we are talking about a FREE product bundled with an Operating system that you dont even have to use. How can there be a "browser war" when the stupid things are free?Because you fundementally failed to understand a very crucial aspect of the "browser war", and the very fact that it was "free" (but really not - MS doesn't give away software for free - they are a for-profit corporation), was one of the most powerful weapons, in eliminating the competition, and it's "integration", was crucial to bamboozling the courts regarding MS's evil deeds.

Note that it is not so free anymore - MS is no longer providing any upgrades to IE, for those not currently using (paying for) XP SP2. It's really almost a slap in the face to W2K users, since: 1) IE5 is included/"integrated" with the OS, and 2) W2K is still officially supported, until 2005 at least.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Why-doesnt-MS-remove-IE-and-let-us-choose-12199905 Thu, 23 Dec 2004 19:20:55 EDT Re: Why doesnt MS remove IE and let us choose?! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Why-doesnt-MS-remove-IE-and-let-us-choose-12198228 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Why-doesnt-MS-remove-IE-and-let-us-choose-12198228 Thu, 23 Dec 2004 15:42:01 EDT Re: Why doesnt MS remove IE and let us choose?! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Why-doesnt-MS-remove-IE-and-let-us-choose-12197997 said by jeffyjeff777:

My original point was not so much that it's impossible to download a browser without a browser, but that it would be pretty dumb if MS were to remove IE from windows just to let us decide what we browser we wanted, becasue then it would be hard for most people to download anything without a browser...and while FTP is still a common thing (I use it almost everyday, mainly for uploading to my website), the majority of internet users have probably never even heard of it, so why do we want to put the cart before the horse and confuse people even more by making them download their favorite browser through FTP?
Id say most of us understood that just fine and your point was made quite well. There are unfortunately others who will never agree because of some blind, meaningless, ignorant vendetta against Microsoft. For crying out loud we are talking about a FREE product bundled with an Operating system that you dont even have to use. How can there be a "browser war" when the stupid things are free? ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Why-doesnt-MS-remove-IE-and-let-us-choose-12197997 Thu, 23 Dec 2004 15:13:18 EDT Re: Why doesnt MS remove IE and let us choose?! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Why-doesnt-MS-remove-IE-and-let-us-choose-12197955 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Why-doesnt-MS-remove-IE-and-let-us-choose-12197955 Thu, 23 Dec 2004 15:07:05 EDT Re: Why doesnt MS remove IE and let us choose?! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Why-doesnt-MS-remove-IE-and-let-us-choose-12197623
Have you tried to copy Text from hyper links or just an item number or title?.. when pasting it just pastes a blank space.

Ive been selling on ebay for the last 3 years and there is no substitute for internet explorer yet. I tried Mozilla, Opera, Netscape & Firefox.... Too many short comings, although internet explorer has many security holes, they only apply when surfing to malicious web sites that try to implement trojans...that's why when i need to surf a web site I'm not familiar with i use firefox to test the waters. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Why-doesnt-MS-remove-IE-and-let-us-choose-12197623 Thu, 23 Dec 2004 14:26:54 EDT Re: Why doesnt MS remove IE and let us choose?! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Why-doesnt-MS-remove-IE-and-let-us-choose-12197285 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Why-doesnt-MS-remove-IE-and-let-us-choose-12197285 Thu, 23 Dec 2004 13:49:41 EDT Re: Why doesnt MS remove IE and let us choose?! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Why-doesnt-MS-remove-IE-and-let-us-choose-12196485 Firesomething.

(Posted from "Mozilla Superpanda")]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Why-doesnt-MS-remove-IE-and-let-us-choose-12196485 Thu, 23 Dec 2004 12:17:39 EDT Re: Why doesnt MS remove IE and let us choose?! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Why-doesnt-MS-remove-IE-and-let-us-choose-12196211
Without though, yeah, it's kinda hard. :)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Why-doesnt-MS-remove-IE-and-let-us-choose-12196211 Thu, 23 Dec 2004 11:46:17 EDT Re: Why doesnt MS remove IE and let us choose?! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Why-doesnt-MS-remove-IE-and-let-us-choose-12195461
You can dig an inground swimming pool with a spoon but that doesn't mean it's a good method to do so
--
Attention all decks! Brace for whining!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Why-doesnt-MS-remove-IE-and-let-us-choose-12195461 Thu, 23 Dec 2004 10:04:03 EDT Re: Why doesnt MS remove IE and let us choose?! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Why-doesnt-MS-remove-IE-and-let-us-choose-12195319 said by DelrayBeach:
Buy a MAC with OS X on it!! I know they are pricey but I switched 6 months ago and never looked back....I finally sold my 3GHz Dell to my father... Microsoft is behind.....


Good for you, but personally I prefer my third-party software to give me ALL the options, not just the incredibly limited ones for Mac. I gave my father my old printer. He installed the software and he doesn't have even 25% of the options the same software gave on my pc.

I also have many more options for buying software and I kind of like that.
--
I'm a woman by the way :).]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Why-doesnt-MS-remove-IE-and-let-us-choose-12195319 Thu, 23 Dec 2004 09:42:36 EDT Re: Why doesnt MS remove IE and let us choose?! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Why-doesnt-MS-remove-IE-and-let-us-choose-12195124
The post that started this said unless you had a disk you HAD to use Internet Explorer to download Firefox. I said no you didn't HAVE to use IE. Exactly how am I missing the point here? ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Why-doesnt-MS-remove-IE-and-let-us-choose-12195124 Thu, 23 Dec 2004 09:06:25 EDT Re: Why doesnt MS remove IE and let us choose?! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Why-doesnt-MS-remove-IE-and-let-us-choose-12195123 said by Chicago_DSL6:

Not to mention that IE 'is' Windows Explorer. Open up Windows Explorer and type in www.msn.com in the address bar, see what happens. You can't get rid of IE in Windows without getting rid of the file browsing capabilities...I always liked the integration of the browser with the OS.

I thought it was one of the best things they did.

I like the fact that I can click on the address bar, and type the path (with AutoComplete) to another folder, etc. I can even use back/forward with it, too.

-- Elias
--
Crunching the Midnight Oil]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Why-doesnt-MS-remove-IE-and-let-us-choose-12195123 Thu, 23 Dec 2004 09:06:08 EDT Re: Why doesnt MS remove IE and let us choose?! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Why-doesnt-MS-remove-IE-and-let-us-choose-12194820
How do you expect users to FTP,P2P, etc firefox when they don't have FSKING access to any tools to guide them to what they're looking for (ie: google, yahoo, lycos)? I'm not even going to address the ridiculousness of asking users to go on a scavenger hunt for ISP install disks after they have net access just to find a browser.

Of any argument for MS not installing IE by default, this is by far the most retarded ever.
--
Attention all decks! Brace for whining!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Why-doesnt-MS-remove-IE-and-let-us-choose-12194820 Thu, 23 Dec 2004 07:30:05 EDT Re: Why doesnt MS remove IE and let us choose?! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Why-doesnt-MS-remove-IE-and-let-us-choose-12194797 --
Attention all decks! Brace for whining!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Why-doesnt-MS-remove-IE-and-let-us-choose-12194797 Thu, 23 Dec 2004 07:18:27 EDT Re: Why doesnt MS remove IE and let us choose?! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Why-doesnt-MS-remove-IE-and-let-us-choose-12194483 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Why-doesnt-MS-remove-IE-and-let-us-choose-12194483 Thu, 23 Dec 2004 04:41:08 EDT Re: Why doesnt MS remove IE and let us choose?! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Why-doesnt-MS-remove-IE-and-let-us-choose-12194437 said by cmaenginsb1:

If we use your argument then cars shouldn't come with a radio or tires. After all these items are "bundled" with the car making it harder for tire companies or radio manufacturers to compete with the radio that's installed in the vehicle.

As to the idea that including a free product makes it harder to compete there are many examples of where this isn't excatly true. After all the server versions of windows have had a backup utility since at least 4.0 but I don't see Backup Exec, Arcserve or any of the more expensive backup products suffering. They simply made a product that worked better. The same thing is true with communications programs that compete with hyperterminal (well they really don't compete.)

This big difference is of course the fact that unlike many of the free addons that MS has included in the past, IE is actually a viable tool. This just forces the competition to go to a higher level and offer and even better product. In a way if you think about it MS is giving us innovation by forcing the other browsers to offer a product that is better.
Now you're comparing aftermarket accessories to computer software?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Why-doesnt-MS-remove-IE-and-let-us-choose-12194437 Thu, 23 Dec 2004 04:14:27 EDT Re: Why doesnt MS remove IE and let us choose?! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Why-doesnt-MS-remove-IE-and-let-us-choose-12194294 said by nekkidtruth:

You do realize that without IE, that wouldn't even be possible right? Please tell me you know that....
Yes, I do. I was just demonstrating that you can browse without actually executing the IE application the way 99% of Windows users do. It's futile to fully remove IE from Windows simply because M$ integrated it too much into the OS. I was basically adding a slight bit of informative trolling to a pointless thread in a topic that, honestly, I don't care too much about since I only use Windows at work.

I won't get into the IE vs Other debate simply because anybody who doesn't take the time to educate themselves in safer browser practices will find a way to hose their PC regardless of what browser they use.

Everybody should start on lynx :D]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Why-doesnt-MS-remove-IE-and-let-us-choose-12194294 Thu, 23 Dec 2004 03:04:25 EDT Re: Why doesnt MS remove IE and let us choose?! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Why-doesnt-MS-remove-IE-and-let-us-choose-12193876
As to the idea that including a free product makes it harder to compete there are many examples of where this isn't excatly true. After all the server versions of windows have had a backup utility since at least 4.0 but I don't see Backup Exec, Arcserve or any of the more expensive backup products suffering. They simply made a product that worked better. The same thing is true with communications programs that compete with hyperterminal (well they really don't compete.)

This big difference is of course the fact that unlike many of the free addons that MS has included in the past, IE is actually a viable tool. This just forces the competition to go to a higher level and offer and even better product. In a way if you think about it MS is giving us innovation by forcing the other browsers to offer a product that is better.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Why-doesnt-MS-remove-IE-and-let-us-choose-12193876 Thu, 23 Dec 2004 01:00:10 EDT Re: Why doesnt MS remove IE and let us choose?! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Why-doesnt-MS-remove-IE-and-let-us-choose-12193533 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Why-doesnt-MS-remove-IE-and-let-us-choose-12193533 Thu, 23 Dec 2004 00:08:29 EDT Re: Why doesnt MS remove IE and let us choose?! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Why-doesnt-MS-remove-IE-and-let-us-choose-12193228 said by SRFireside:

said by jeffyjeff777:


cause then you wouldn't have a browser to surf over to Mozilla.org and download firefox or any other broswer.
Not that tired old reason again. Downloading software was around a lot longer than web browsers were. You don't need IE to get Firefox. FTP, for example, is still part of every PC out there.
For you to think that 90% of the general PC buying pubic would know how to FTP a file shows your complete disconnection from reality. You do realize housewives, senior citizens, newbies and techno phobes by PC's correct? I persnally cant imagine why a no money generating componenet of an OS like a browser is so hotly debated, get your free browser and use it. Who cares what others use?
]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Why-doesnt-MS-remove-IE-and-let-us-choose-12193228 Wed, 22 Dec 2004 23:28:51 EDT Re: Why doesnt MS remove IE and let us choose?! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Why-doesnt-MS-remove-IE-and-let-us-choose-12193084
Start -> Run -> cmd

At prompt do:

1) ftp sitename
2) at username prompt, type guest/anonymous/whatever instructions call for
2a) enter password or null per instructions
3) cd remote_dir
4) get file_name.exe
5) bye
6) file_name.exe

The chicken & egg problem of getting them the directions in the first place has validity for the bulk of novice internet users; they aren't aware of steps like this. However, that's not related to the complexity of the install should said users get concise, accurate installation instructions to use. Two different aspects to the problem.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Why-doesnt-MS-remove-IE-and-let-us-choose-12193084 Wed, 22 Dec 2004 23:07:57 EDT Re: Why doesnt MS remove IE and let us choose?! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Why-doesnt-MS-remove-IE-and-let-us-choose-12193060 said by jbryan:

I don't know about anybody else, but, IE loads much faster then Firefox for me. That made up my mind.
You base your browsing decision on how fast the program loads?
--
Air goes in and out. Blood goes 'round and 'round. Any deviation to this is considered a bad thing.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Why-doesnt-MS-remove-IE-and-let-us-choose-12193060 Wed, 22 Dec 2004 23:03:20 EDT Re: Why doesnt MS remove IE and let us choose?! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Why-doesnt-MS-remove-IE-and-let-us-choose-12193049 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Why-doesnt-MS-remove-IE-and-let-us-choose-12193049 Wed, 22 Dec 2004 23:01:40 EDT Re: Why doesnt MS remove IE and let us choose?! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Why-doesnt-MS-remove-IE-and-let-us-choose-12192793 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Why-doesnt-MS-remove-IE-and-let-us-choose-12192793 Wed, 22 Dec 2004 22:33:22 EDT Re: Why doesnt MS remove IE and let us choose?! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Why-doesnt-MS-remove-IE-and-let-us-choose-12191943
Realistically it is very fair, for what MS does with IE, at least it leaves it up to the consumer to decide. Otherwise you would be using a command line, know what im saying?

P.S. I used firefox for awhile, but now prefer Mozilla over everything. Sorry firefox, I just don't dig things with "fox" in the name.

Sam ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Why-doesnt-MS-remove-IE-and-let-us-choose-12191943 Wed, 22 Dec 2004 20:54:28 EDT Re: Why doesnt MS remove IE and let us choose?! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Why-doesnt-MS-remove-IE-and-let-us-choose-12191882
So far microsoft manufactures software that is not perfect just like any other company out there but other than windows most of their applications are rock solid.

Fire fox is Very Good, but still holds no grounds on calling itself the Best Browser.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Why-doesnt-MS-remove-IE-and-let-us-choose-12191882 Wed, 22 Dec 2004 20:48:04 EDT Re: Why doesnt MS remove IE and let us choose?! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Why-doesnt-MS-remove-IE-and-let-us-choose-12191661 said by PhoenixDown:

firefox out of the box does everything IE does and more...
Oh the Irony; when a software company says that in their marketing media geeks the world around raise their pitchforks in unison and scream "BLOATWARE!!!!"
--
Attention all decks! Brace for whining!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Why-doesnt-MS-remove-IE-and-let-us-choose-12191661 Wed, 22 Dec 2004 20:23:04 EDT Re: Why doesnt MS remove IE and let us choose?! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Why-doesnt-MS-remove-IE-and-let-us-choose-12191621
while you schleps were out dreaming of your little open source panacea, microsoft was busy building an OS around its browser. So please don't stand up and complain now. It is your implicit support of windows that evolved it to what it is today.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Why-doesnt-MS-remove-IE-and-let-us-choose-12191621 Wed, 22 Dec 2004 20:18:10 EDT Re: Why doesnt MS remove IE and let us choose?! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Why-doesnt-MS-remove-IE-and-let-us-choose-12191317
btw: I just tried out the form fill extension and it saved me at least an hours worth of typing at work. ITs great
--
www.pulsetoday.com -- marketing forums!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Why-doesnt-MS-remove-IE-and-let-us-choose-12191317 Wed, 22 Dec 2004 19:40:59 EDT Re: Why doesnt MS remove IE and let us choose?! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Why-doesnt-MS-remove-IE-and-let-us-choose-12191198 said by orangelemon:

Why does MS have to remove their products from Windows? I think that's crazy. As long as their products aren't restricting other products from working properly, then what's the big deal?

It's like saying to NBC, you can't advertise other NBC shows during your programming, or making them advertise shows for all the other networks equally?

I mean, WTF. MS should be able to bundle whatever they want with Windows. If you don't like it, use Linux.
Here's the problem:

When MS bundles programs with the O/S it creates problems for other software developers. People will use the bundled programs instead of purchasing X software. For example, let's look at the IE vs. Netscape debacle. When MS was including IE within the Windows O/S they were taking over Netscape's market (which is a perfectly sensible thing to do if you're Microsoft). This didn't hurt consumers as they still had a choice between browsers. It made for unfair competition, but I wouldn't call it a monopolistic.

Some may speculate that MS will be the only choice for certain software. This could create problems for consumers when no other affordable choice is available to them. Then will a monopoly be in place.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Why-doesnt-MS-remove-IE-and-let-us-choose-12191198 Wed, 22 Dec 2004 19:25:06 EDT Re: Why doesnt MS remove IE and let us choose?! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Why-doesnt-MS-remove-IE-and-let-us-choose-12191055 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Why-doesnt-MS-remove-IE-and-let-us-choose-12191055 Wed, 22 Dec 2004 19:05:13 EDT Re: Why doesnt MS remove IE and let us choose?! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Why-doesnt-MS-remove-IE-and-let-us-choose-12190770 said by matradley:

Quintessentially, when using Microsoft products, Microsoft owns you.
How true.

Hopefully in Longhorn we won't be spoon-fed the next revision of IE.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Why-doesnt-MS-remove-IE-and-let-us-choose-12190770 Wed, 22 Dec 2004 18:32:20 EDT Re: Why doesnt MS remove IE and let us choose?! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Why-doesnt-MS-remove-IE-and-let-us-choose-12190662 said by Trakker8:

When it can really start working with java vs an entirely exteral app, that will be step 1 for it to becomeing worthwhile.
How much crack are you currently on? Did you pay a lot for it? Because I'd like to know HOW Firefox is bloated. :uhh:
--
Never expect anything and never underestimate the unexpected.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Why-doesnt-MS-remove-IE-and-let-us-choose-12190662 Wed, 22 Dec 2004 18:14:40 EDT Re: Why doesnt MS remove IE and let us choose?! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Why-doesnt-MS-remove-IE-and-let-us-choose-12190605
It's like saying to NBC, you can't advertise other NBC shows during your programming, or making them advertise shows for all the other networks equally?

I mean, WTF. MS should be able to bundle whatever they want with Windows. If you don't like it, use Linux.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Why-doesnt-MS-remove-IE-and-let-us-choose-12190605 Wed, 22 Dec 2004 18:07:57 EDT