VOIP Tech Chat → [Vonage] Vonage Italy Scam! READ IMPORTANT!

Hi everybody here's th problem:
I've joined Vonage because they state you can call Italy Land Line for $0.03 a minute WOW!
Well the problem is the have included ARE CODE +3903 into the Cell Phone area codes!! In Italy Cell Phones Are Code don't have a 0!
I'm sure there are a lot of people that are being effected by this glitch.
Are Code 3903 is for Region Lombaria it is not a Cell phone area.
I just called them and they said they will get back to me.
If you are having the same problem PLEASE CALL THEM NOW!
That's fooling honest people: it's really really bad.

Calm down and take a deep breath. Vonage is not shady company, and this is likely nothing more than an honest mistake. If it is being billed incorrectly, they will credit you. There's no scam here, simply nothing more than a misconfiguration. If the carrier they route through classifies it at a premium rate however, they is likely nothing that can be done. The rate may very well be there for a reason, and if so, as long as it's listed there is no scam. At any rate, thanks for the heads up!

There really isn't much Vonage is going to be able to do about it. The carriers that Vonage uses for the last leg classify calls to certain area codes/exchanges as cell phones. The best thing that Vonage can do is explicity state what the rates are let the customer make the decision on their own. I wouldn't consider. Since the rates for those exchanges/area codes are listed on the page, I would hardly say it's fooling anyone. When you joined Vonage and found out that calls to italy were a certain price, you were should have been able to see what exchanges were charged at seperate rates and used that to make a decision.

JM2C

Tom

This problem has been going on for much time (I reported them this specific billing problem more than a year ago) but they will do nothing to fix it as this is what they say they are charged by their carrier.

I'm sorry but I have to disagree with you. I'm italian: by Law in Italy Cell phone numbers CANNOT start with a 0. Into their website they advertise Italy land line at $0.03/min, then they specify Cell Phones, Milan, Rome and Vatican City they don't have a "other section".
I think that's misleading and they are taking advantage of a thousands of land lines in the North of Italy starting with a number Vonage thinks is a Cell Phone.
That's cheating to me!
I'm calling now ATT and ask about their price plan, maybe they are a more transparent.

Just because they list it as a "cell" number does not mean that it is in fact a cell number. Instead of have 50 different groups for each individual prefix charged at a premium rate, they just narrow it down into one category. They clearly list the price as being charged at a premium rate. Now, whether it should be in that rate category is another debate. Vonage can't simply charge you the landline rate to a number that they themselves are charged more by their carrier. This is something that is out of their hands. If AT&T charges less for termination to that region, then by all means go for it. It isn't misleading by definition, as they do show that as being charged a premium rate. I'm not trying to flame you, I'm just trying to state how you vs. the carrier is billed for the call. I do not know anything about termination to Italy, so if it is a genuine error by all means fight it. It just may not be that easy of a process if it does not directly involve Vonage.

Hi,

I really think is a genuine error: I just just checked every single VOIP provider and they list Italy Cell the way it is: with a 3 not 03 because that's the land-line area code for a region the size of NY State! I'm waiting for someone to call me from Vonage.
Let's put it this way: you sign up to call for free California, then you find out that Area code for LA is listed under Arizona therefore you are paying a rate you did not expect. That's my point.
I'll keep you posted.
As of now it is not my intention to pay them. I'm afraid I'll have to go to Small Claim Court in Manhattan

Don't bother waiting I've got the same beef with them. They specify them as cellular when they clearly are not. I have called them on this myself as I call Italy (northern Milan area) and all I get is their bulls&*t about their carrier.
The only thing keeping me from jumping on them is no else has a phone number local to my county and many other voip providers pull the same crap only at least they're up front and call them "premium" numbers. Additionally the other provider I'd look at is AT&T CV but they are $5.00 higher, and other calls i.e. England, Germany and Switzerland which I'd call more often are slightly higher so I figure the Italy crap is offset by the others. Also it was posted on one of these forums they (vonage) are coming out with unltd. European plan similar to some others. So I guess I'll wait it out. Besides I just did a referral and have 2 free months to play it out before I bail (if I bail).
Larry

Ciao Larry,

That's exactly what happened to my: I'm calling a land line number from Brescia 030 and Vonage thinks it's a cell.
What about lingo.com? They have unlimited intl.. calling.
What's up with Vonage Unlimited? Where did you read that?
Thanks.

Uhm - »www.vonage.com/intrates. ··· rd=italy

It clearly states that 3903 is $0.27/minute.

I call Greece often and know that certain numbers I call may be $0.21/minute. Cell or not, I check the website and get prepared.

Vonage is fooling no one. If they didn't clearly state all the prefixes, that would be fooling us. They show it all.

Your energy would be best channeled calling Vonage and calmly explaining your frustration and concern--not threatening legal action! Why is it everyone must sue someone for anything??? That's a whole other discussion...

Have fun with AT&T and small claims court.
From an ex-NYer to a NYer, take a deep breath-it will all be O K.

Hey VoipinCA,

When you call cell phones in Greece, how is the call quality? Just wondering if they have improved. I call on a daily basis some times but have switched from Vonage to CV because I could not deal with not being able to hear people in Greece.

And they are .21/m now? wow when I had them it was .16/m but with poor sound quality.

Guess what they put 3903 under Italy's Cell when is not, and they are the only VOIP (I've checked ATT, Lingus) company doing that.
As I said before if you expect to call California for free you would be really mad if they would move LA Area Code under another state.
That's my only complain to them: they advertise land line @ $0.03 and Cell at $ 0.27: 3903 is a land line area code! So who's right? It's me a consumer vs a corporation making their own rule: they simply should have posted Cell + Others.
I think you should do the same: if Greece Land Line has a price you should call them and advice them about it: I'm not trying to get anything from Vonage I'm just trying to get what they state.
BTW
It is not possible with Vonage calling any Italian Cell #: I've tried a 1,000 times.

I will agree with vonager. That if that are code is not a mobile connection there should not be the higher charge.
But Vonager if they have listed in their prices that area code 3903 is charged the higher rate then you are out of luck. You have to pay them that even if they are not correct. Legally they can claim this.Sorry dude I know it blows.

Vonager-
I hear and see your point, but the site doesn't say landline - it clearly states the prefixes. Even Cellular is in parenthesis. To me that indicates that it might not be the entire category, but a guideline. But categories and descriptions aside - the prefixes and costs are there.

They aren't hiding anything. It CLEARLY states it on the page. Your call is going to cost $0.27.

If I was going to call LA and it was going to cost more and it was on the website, I would know about it and complain to Vonage. I wouldn't site here and complain and say that Vonage is fooling me. Anyway, US dialing is the same. It's Europe with the cell phone termination costs that is causing this.

If I recall, there was a similar thing with Alaska and Hawaii with Lingo. People just called them and complained and it was resolved.

I don't disagree with you and your issues. It sucks that landline calls are costing more for you. I disagree with your logic and how you are going about resolving it. The facts are on the site. If you had checked the site prior to calling you would have known the cost. Oh, and legal action isn't the answer to everything.

Eperos- As for Greek cell phones, I haven't called them lately. I usually call landlines to speak to relatives for the holidays.

VoipinCa,
Thanks for the reply. Actually I was happy with Vonage when it came to calling land lines. They would often ask me where I was because they would think that I was near by.

Eperos - I get the same question from the callers in Greece-it is always very clear. Even family and friends in NY are amazed that I'm not on a landline. So much, that I got a friend in Brooklyn to sign up. They're now saving tons of money without Verizon. Gotta love that.

I just checked with the wholesale carrier I'm using (eventually going to set up a small VOIP provider as an add-on service for customers of our small rural ISP). Anyhow here is what they list:

Italy Cellular 011393 0.2585 (per minute)
Italy Proper 01139 0.0175
Italy Rome 0113906 0.0176
Italy Vatican City 011390668 0.0171

So from that rate table a call to 0113903 should fall under the Italy Proper category and cost 0.0175 per minute.... Checking two other carriers that we also use for backup they only post calls to 011393* as being .24+ cents/minute. 0113903 even with the two other carriers should be classified at the standard rate of anywhere from .0175 to .0415 cents/min (depending on the carrier).

Vonage is either mistaken about their carrier costs, their carrier is overcharging them, or they are overcharging you. It's possible I'm not reading my rate tables correctly, but I don't think so-- and thats checking three different wholesale carriers rate tables.

Hope this helps....

Markcs,
Could you do me a flavor and check what they are giving you for Greece? Thank you.

Thank you Mark,

Finally someone that sees my point: Vonage is making extra extra extra profit from my phone calls because 3903 it is not a Cell phone Area Code.
Thanks again!

Someone is making extra money, though I seriously doubt it's Vonage. As other have said, the rates they charge are based on what their termination costs are. If it costs X cents a minute wholesale, even if it's not a fair price, do you think Vonage should charge less than they pay?

In europe, and many other countries, like mexico, the 0 is never used when calling from outside the country. Inside the country 0xy is used for a domestic call. To make an international call you dial 00x or 00xy, so to call france from italy you'd dial 00331-456-7890 to reach someone in paris, where if in paris you'd dial 01-456-7890.

-er

from my understanding, youre trying to call 393 right and not 3903?

I'm calling a land line are code +39030. Vonage thinks it's a Cell Phone therefore it's charging me $0.27/min Can you imagine my face when I've found out I did $23 in 2 days of International phone calls? Thank God I checked.

You're pretty excitable. In reading this thread it sounds like vonage may has misclassed the area code, but you can hardly infer intent from that. You shouldn't be shouting SCAM until you give them a chance to correct the apparent error. If you are really convinced that vonage is out to get you, then the lingo base plan is cheaper than vonage and includes free calling to italian landlines.

eperos:

Greece Athens 0113021 0.0201/min
Greece Cellular 011306 0.1892/min
Greece Proper 01130 0.0241/min

My two backup carriers are between those rates and 0.0726/min for landline, about the same for cellular.

Not to stray too far offtopic I will only further comment that Vonage should perhaps investigate the situation and choose a more cost effective route to Italy's 0113903 area and stop charging mobile rates for landline termination.

He maybe excitable, but that's understandable. Many are telling him to calm down, but he is the one stuck with rates much higher than the advertised.

Whether the over-charge was from conspired intention or ignorance, the result is clear. He is being over charged.

Innocence by ignorance doesn't hold water in any court of law. Why should a company be excused because of its ignorance? This is their business, no provider should be excused for these sort of errors. The opportunity for a provider is to correct the rate errors, whether it's their own or their carrier's.

One can always to use the approach of changing the providers to escape the issue, but what do you do when that new provider has a different issue. Keep changing the providers whenever an issue comes up?

Hi! markscs can you please post how much it cost to call Israel (+972) and how much it cost to call Israeli cell phones (+9725)
thanks

Thank you for your support . I just joined Lingo and tomorrow I'm planning to discontinue Vonage unless they fix the 3903 problem, but I bet they will not do it.
I'll let you know.

Honestly, I think you are going a little to the left with this one. If you bring it to their attention, and due to size and number of inquiries you may even need to bring it to their attention a couple times, they will take care of it, I am sure.

We have had issues like that, I think every phone company on the planet has. If you only knew the size of the rate tables and the complexity involved in building them let alone maintaining them. With all of the new country codes, area codes, area splits, cellular companies taking over partial blocks. This does not even speak to the recent splits. Number blocks used to be assigned by NPA / NXX and a single carrier would own the entire block. Now number blocks are split down to the 1k block (ie: 2163734xxx may belong to one phone company and 2163735xxx could belong to another company). What can be more of a headache, using the example above; the first phone company may be a cLEC, the other may be a cellular carrier (much higher termination cost / call setup costs).

In short Vonage is not trying to screw you, Broadvox would not be trying to get over on you in the event of a billing error, nor VoicePulse, or any of the other majors that you read about each day.

The fact is they process millions of minutes per month and they do not look at the calls; it would be impossible!

Prior to correcting your rating (or telling you why it is correct) they need to give it to the department that maintains the rate tables, that department needs to research the number you called, and how they rated the call. From there they need to update their rate table (if that is what is needed) and then send your inquiry to billing to have the call re-rated or adjusted; depending upon how they do things.

My point? Don't sweat it, just keep reasonable watch, stay on them a little and they will fix it. Vonage is a good company and I would be shocked to hear that they tried perform a dishonest act, as I would be with most of the companies in this space.

Considering the growth curve, the product demand, call volumes, etc I would say that VoIP companies overall have done a really good job of keeping up!

Dear Mr. Williams,

I will take your suggestion and tomorrow I will try to explain once again my problem to Vonage. maybe you are right and they will fix it.
I understand all the technical issues with maintaining a VOIP service, but in Italy is very easy : all cell begin with a 0: it's a no brain-er: that's the law over there, they did it to avoid billing problems: the area code 3903 is the size of NY Sate in terms of users: it's a pretty big number.
Thank you for your advice.