VOIP Tech Chat → Re: [Vonage] Vonage Italy Scam! READ IMPORTANT!

Hi,

I really think is a genuine error: I just just checked every single VOIP provider and they list Italy Cell the way it is: with a 3 not 03 because that's the land-line area code for a region the size of NY State! I'm waiting for someone to call me from Vonage.
Let's put it this way: you sign up to call for free California, then you find out that Area code for LA is listed under Arizona therefore you are paying a rate you did not expect. That's my point.
I'll keep you posted.
As of now it is not my intention to pay them. I'm afraid I'll have to go to Small Claim Court in Manhattan

Don't bother waiting I've got the same beef with them. They specify them as cellular when they clearly are not. I have called them on this myself as I call Italy (northern Milan area) and all I get is their bulls&*t about their carrier.
The only thing keeping me from jumping on them is no else has a phone number local to my county and many other voip providers pull the same crap only at least they're up front and call them "premium" numbers. Additionally the other provider I'd look at is AT&T CV but they are $5.00 higher, and other calls i.e. England, Germany and Switzerland which I'd call more often are slightly higher so I figure the Italy crap is offset by the others. Also it was posted on one of these forums they (vonage) are coming out with unltd. European plan similar to some others. So I guess I'll wait it out. Besides I just did a referral and have 2 free months to play it out before I bail (if I bail).
Larry

Ciao Larry,

That's exactly what happened to my: I'm calling a land line number from Brescia 030 and Vonage thinks it's a cell.
What about lingo.com? They have unlimited intl.. calling.
What's up with Vonage Unlimited? Where did you read that?
Thanks.

Uhm - »www.vonage.com/intrates. ··· rd=italy

It clearly states that 3903 is $0.27/minute.

I call Greece often and know that certain numbers I call may be $0.21/minute. Cell or not, I check the website and get prepared.

Vonage is fooling no one. If they didn't clearly state all the prefixes, that would be fooling us. They show it all.

Your energy would be best channeled calling Vonage and calmly explaining your frustration and concern--not threatening legal action! Why is it everyone must sue someone for anything??? That's a whole other discussion...

Have fun with AT&T and small claims court.
From an ex-NYer to a NYer, take a deep breath-it will all be O K.

Guess what they put 3903 under Italy's Cell when is not, and they are the only VOIP (I've checked ATT, Lingus) company doing that.
As I said before if you expect to call California for free you would be really mad if they would move LA Area Code under another state.
That's my only complain to them: they advertise land line @ $0.03 and Cell at $ 0.27: 3903 is a land line area code! So who's right? It's me a consumer vs a corporation making their own rule: they simply should have posted Cell + Others.
I think you should do the same: if Greece Land Line has a price you should call them and advice them about it: I'm not trying to get anything from Vonage I'm just trying to get what they state.
BTW
It is not possible with Vonage calling any Italian Cell #: I've tried a 1,000 times.

Vonager-
I hear and see your point, but the site doesn't say landline - it clearly states the prefixes. Even Cellular is in parenthesis. To me that indicates that it might not be the entire category, but a guideline. But categories and descriptions aside - the prefixes and costs are there.

They aren't hiding anything. It CLEARLY states it on the page. Your call is going to cost $0.27.

If I was going to call LA and it was going to cost more and it was on the website, I would know about it and complain to Vonage. I wouldn't site here and complain and say that Vonage is fooling me. Anyway, US dialing is the same. It's Europe with the cell phone termination costs that is causing this.

If I recall, there was a similar thing with Alaska and Hawaii with Lingo. People just called them and complained and it was resolved.

I don't disagree with you and your issues. It sucks that landline calls are costing more for you. I disagree with your logic and how you are going about resolving it. The facts are on the site. If you had checked the site prior to calling you would have known the cost. Oh, and legal action isn't the answer to everything.

Eperos- As for Greek cell phones, I haven't called them lately. I usually call landlines to speak to relatives for the holidays.

Honestly, I think you are going a little to the left with this one. If you bring it to their attention, and due to size and number of inquiries you may even need to bring it to their attention a couple times, they will take care of it, I am sure.

We have had issues like that, I think every phone company on the planet has. If you only knew the size of the rate tables and the complexity involved in building them let alone maintaining them. With all of the new country codes, area codes, area splits, cellular companies taking over partial blocks. This does not even speak to the recent splits. Number blocks used to be assigned by NPA / NXX and a single carrier would own the entire block. Now number blocks are split down to the 1k block (ie: 2163734xxx may belong to one phone company and 2163735xxx could belong to another company). What can be more of a headache, using the example above; the first phone company may be a cLEC, the other may be a cellular carrier (much higher termination cost / call setup costs).

In short Vonage is not trying to screw you, Broadvox would not be trying to get over on you in the event of a billing error, nor VoicePulse, or any of the other majors that you read about each day.

The fact is they process millions of minutes per month and they do not look at the calls; it would be impossible!

Prior to correcting your rating (or telling you why it is correct) they need to give it to the department that maintains the rate tables, that department needs to research the number you called, and how they rated the call. From there they need to update their rate table (if that is what is needed) and then send your inquiry to billing to have the call re-rated or adjusted; depending upon how they do things.

My point? Don't sweat it, just keep reasonable watch, stay on them a little and they will fix it. Vonage is a good company and I would be shocked to hear that they tried perform a dishonest act, as I would be with most of the companies in this space.

Considering the growth curve, the product demand, call volumes, etc I would say that VoIP companies overall have done a really good job of keeping up!

Dear Mr. Williams,

I will take your suggestion and tomorrow I will try to explain once again my problem to Vonage. maybe you are right and they will fix it.
I understand all the technical issues with maintaining a VOIP service, but in Italy is very easy : all cell begin with a 0: it's a no brain-er: that's the law over there, they did it to avoid billing problems: the area code 3903 is the size of NY Sate in terms of users: it's a pretty big number.
Thank you for your advice.

>

Ok lets take a look a this again-

Italy
39
$0.03

Italy (Cellular)
393, 3903, 39320, 39322-23, 39328-31, 39333-41, 39343, 39346-49, 39360-63, 39368, 39370, 39377, 39380, 39383, 39387-93, 39397
$0.27

That (Cellular) is in parenthesis doesn't look like a "suggestion" to me, It looks like they are saying ONLY calls to cell phone in those prefixes are charged at .27 a min. Look above, if I knew I was calling a land line I wouldn't expect to be charged more than .03. Why should I assume that that Vonage is going to bill me the cellular rate?

>

How are we supposed to know that? Vonage should remove the words (Cellular) from their rate table if they don't know exactly where a call is getting routed. You can't tell what company is receiving a call in the US based on first 6 digits anymore. This is bound to happen in the international market soon.

All the people here who 'get it' don't see that getting billed more than you expected because of a vague and misleading rate table might put somebody in a bad mood. Vonage's cut and paste tech support was not very helpful, it should have read: "We charge $0.27 per minute for calls to numbers we believe are cell phones in Italy. We could be wrong about which numbers we classify as cell phones but we will continue to err on the side of caution and charge you 9 times more for those numbers."

Because they have a rate plan sheet that says "If you dial these digits, you will get billed this rate"

You can argue about the implied meaning of the rate description all you want, but they still provided a black and white listing of prefixes, and how you would be billed for those prefixes.