Belkin → [Networking/Sharing] Help, Pre-N keeps dropping my connection

Hello everyone,

Newbie here, in fact, very new to wireless networking (at home). My problem is that my Belkin Pre-N router (F5d8230-4)drops my conection several times in a 2-3 hour period. I have Charter Cable internet service. I have 2 computers connected to the network. On my windows ME computer, I have a F5D7001 wireless network card and on my new XP computer, I have the F5d8000 wireless pre-N network card. It seems my connection drops more with both computers online than just one. All the idiot lights on the cable modem and the router stay on. My sons tend to use both for their gaming (Worlds of Warcraft and Runescape). Anyway, is there something I'm missing or is this something I'll have to live with. BTW, the "repair" button in the support locks up my XP machine. My apologizes if this is a pre-newbie question and not worth the time. Thanks in advance.

Dave

I am experiencing the same thing here David. Can someone please offer some advice here, because it is a very annoying problem, particularly when you are in the middle of something important like gaming.

Please provide some details. For example, I had similiar problems but only when running P2P apps like Azureus. Other then that, I never drop my connection.

Details are in my other post. I run no P2P apps or anything distributed like that. I simply play games on my PC and use it to run everyday applications like Microsoft Office. Also, my pc is running off of a freshly installed version of Windows XP Professional Service Pack 2 with all of the latest Windows Updates installed.

Same problem here. Pre-N desktop card and router, XP Pro SP2. Very frustrating getting dropped several times an hour. I've tried just about every "fix" I've been able to dig up, but none of them have solved the problem. I'm about ready to trash this thing.

The best way to avoid experiencing dropped connections is to connect your Router to a UPS -- UPS can be purchased for $50 or less that is more than adequate for this purpose. A UPS will not allow voltage fluctuations and electrical line noise -- the primary cause of Router issues having to do with dropped connections. DO NOT confuse a UPS with a Power Bar -- they are not the same. The 2nd leading cause of dropped connections is not having an understanding of how applications interact with the Router and the limitations of the Router itself -- primarily involving Peer to Peer Applications and/OR Browsers like Microsoft Internet Explorer or FireFox Or Opera etc. These applications can cause Routers to drop connections because they open more connections than a Router is capable of handling forcing the router to shut down -- so users should learn how to manage that part effectively. The third leading cause of dropped connections is Malware and unless your system is properly protected from Malware you’re going to be exasperated The following link provides you with info »www.itexpertoncall.com/a ··· 201.html

I have a $150 UPS, NOT a power strip, so that is not the issue.

I have shut down every application that could possibly access the Internet and the intermittent connectivity still persists, so that is not the issue either.

I run four different spyware applications on my pc and run antivirus scans twice weekly on my computer, so that is not the cause either.

There is a problem with this latest firmware. It's up to Belkin to fix it because when I reverted back to the "out-of-the box" firmware, my connection issues stopped.

Based on what you state above I then would suggest that you may have a defective unit so I would ask for a replacement.

With regards to [2] --- There are a ton of anti-spyware applications out there and 99% are pure CRAP. I recommend 2. If your running MS Windows XP you can get their free Antispyware program -- it is effective for most malware but not all; the other one is made by Webroot called SpySweeper and it also is effective for most malware but not all. FYI, once you have been infected by stuff that cannot be detected by the 2 I mentioned Your system hard drive will need to be REFORMATED --- there is no other way unfortunately. And the only clue that something could be wrong is abnormal behavior that has no other explanation – and I have seen this with many devices regardless of who makes the product.

With regards to [3] --- I have so far installed over 30 Pre-N devices and outside of very minor issues [which I reported in other threads] I have not attributed any of the minor issues I experienced to Firmware like you suggest. It is very unfortunate that Belkin are not informative as to what the various firmware releases on their site addresses – it is interesting to note that Linksys have now released version 1.01.05 and do have technical note explaining what has been fixed.

With regards to [1] --- How do you know which process has an impact on your Router/network? Applications can also be system processes and system processes do not show up as applications.

No, I do not have a defective unit. I replaced it with the same results.

I have tried every single spyware remover under the sun. You are not talking to a novice here. I have tried every popular program imaginable, Webroot Spysweepter, Lavasoft Ad-Aware SE Personal, Spybot Search and Destroy, Microsoft AntiSpyware Beta, etc. I do not have malware on my pc. I am overly confident in regards to this.

I agree that Belkin is not very informative on their firmware revisions. I have tried constantly to update my firmware from the routers firmware utility, but it indicates there is no newer firmware than the factory default firmware that is installed. This happened on both routers I tried.

Also, within MSCONFIG, I shut down every system process possible that again, could possibly access the Internet, as well as any applications installed on my pc.

Unfortunately, the firmware is the culprit here. Like I mentioned before, when I attempted to update the firmware to the latest revision, that is when my problem started with continual disconnects. When I reverted back to the factory firmware, the problem stopped.

I am having a similar problem with my Pre-N stuff...I have 2 computers using wireless with WPA-PSK encryption and two others connected via CAT-5. One wireless computer has no problems; however, the other computer (wireless) keeps losing its connection. I've tried several other cards with similar results. Either the computer tries to re-establish the connection or it loses it completely and I have to remove the PC card and re-insert it for it to re-connect. This is a real pain for p2p. Anyone have any thoughts as one pc is doing fine and the wired connections are good too.

with regards to [1] --- If you had carefully read my post you would have noted that I clearly stated that anti-spyware applications [regardless of whose] cannot detect everything. The fact that you have used every single spyware remover [including the ones I recommended] under the sun is not material if they cannot guaranty that they will trap all malware. Once an undetected malware takes over your system the only recourse is to format your hard drive if the abnormal behavior persists. What constitutes abnormal behavior is always a contentious issue.
However -- In your situation from [2] I see your observation that once you re-flashed the original firmware everything returned to normal – and that is good So apparently for some reason your Pre-N device does not like the more recent firmware and that certanly is not good. .
BTW, regardless of the fact that I do have a great deal of expertise in a number of subjects including the world of technology I continue to learn every single day how little I actually do know --- in fact the more I think and believe I know the more I realize that I in fact have so much more to learn – and the more I learn the more ignorant I find myself to be.

And you have a point in that I cannot prove that there is no malware on my pc. Although, the chance of malware causing such a problem is slim to none given the analysis and efforts I have exerted in attempting to resolve this issue. Another point is that I failed to mention is that I installed Windows XP Professional with Service Pack 2 on a brand new hard disk that had never been used at all. During a particular testing phase of mine, the only software installed after Windows was finished being installed were the necessary drivers for the PCI cardbus NIC, nothing else. Of course, during later testing, that is when I installed the various spyware applications to ensure that my machine was clean in the most simplistic terms.

And yes, it does appear as if there is something wrong with later firmware revisions here folks. I attempted to upgrade from the factory default 1.00.06 firmware to version 1.01.04 on TWO SEPARATE Pre-N routers with the same results of random, unexplained disconnects. Of course, I am not aware of what causes this and several calls to Belkin technical support yielded little to no help as well.

Also, don't sweat it David...We all have something to learn and benefit from here.

Same thing started happening to me. Only difference is:
- It happens only with one wireless laptop and only if use encryption. The other laptops work fine w/ encryption.

- If I turn off encryption and leave the network open, the connection never drops.

Thoughts?

Hello, I just found this forum (and post) after tearing my hear out with the Belkin Pre N Router and Pre N laptop card.

I also get connection drops frequently. I cant remember if I upgraded firmware on the router but how would I roll this back to factory firmware, anyone?

Cheers
Al James
»www.aljames.co.uk

@Mozerd

Thanks for your observations and suggestions in regards to dropped wireless connections. I think I've traced my dropped connections to my P2P app (Bittorrent - Azureus). I noticed that in the Belkin Firewall Security Log is posting entries like these every few seconds:

Thu Apr 14 08:03:11 2005 1 Blocked by DoS protection 83.83.0.78

I thought that was unusual, but it must be related to Bittorrent making many connections to other peers. How can I determine how many connections my Belkin Pre-N router can safely handle? Maybe I can dial down the connection settings to ease the load.

Thanks again,
jonatj

I also think it is the firewall causing this because of the bogus DOS attacks. I disabled the firewall on the router and turned on the XP one. I left it on this morning and will check it out at the end of the day.

Edit: Okay, I turned off the firewall at 6:30am and it is now 5:03pm. For the first time ever, I came home and my wireless computer did not have the "connected to" message. I also have had BT running all morning long. I will update later tonight.

with regards to [1] The Belkin Pre-N Router cannot handle more than 253 connections -- so 253 is the connection limit.
with regards to [2] BitTorrent - Azureus does have connection options -- the client lets you set the maximum number of connections for each torrent as well as globally. My very strong recommendation is adjust your P2P client's global peer connection limits to handle no more than 50% of the 253 connection limit the Pre-N Router allows. In that way you have enough headroom to allow other activities like VoIP and many other Internet related activities -- and if you are using VoIP THEN make sure that QoS is turned on otherwise VoIP will deliver horrible results. With QoS turned on your Azureus activities will get lower prioritization ,,, meaning that downloads/uploads will be much slower.

I strongly do NOT recommend that anyone TURN OFF the SPI Firewall provided by the Pre-N – it does a darn good job --- I do recommend that the Windows XP firewall be turned off. However, if you are going to turn of the SPI firewall then it is certainly advisable to use the Windows XP firewall. The KEY point is that a hardware firewall like that built-into the PRE-N is 10,000% faster [wire speed] than a software firewall.

Everyone should be aware that ALL ISP in North America [USA-Canada] are NOW quietly [covertly] shutting down P2P activities specifically like Bittorrent etc. I made mention of that sometime ago and its now happening.

Hi Mates,

for me I uesed belkin pre-n router in group of 10 wireless devices in 1KM circle, well I never notice any dropped connections maybe very very few , but after upgrade to the new firmware v 1.01.04 alot of dropped connections happened even in a time of 10 minites , so I go back to the old version 1.00.06 and it works very well !

by the way any news about adding WDS to this router ?

Best Regards
Atheer

Wow, that's great information on the 253 connection limit. I'm going to make adjustments accordingly.

Thanks again!

Made the changes in Azureus. Just FYI for those wondering, the default connections allowed are 400. So the router must be inundated with connection requests. I lowered it to 125, hopefully it won't hamper performance much.

-jonatj

I was wondering if anyone has a bit more info on the max connections subject.

I'm using a Belkin F5D7630-4A ADSL Modem/WiFi Router, on my main PC (hard wired to the router) I use file sharing SW DC++/ODC, almost every time I do a search with DC++/ODC my router resets itself, I don't have any other problems with it aside from an occasional reset, sounds like a similar issue to the one discussed above.

I can't see any settings however to limit the allowed number of connections during a search.

Any suggestions please?

My Pre-N drops like crazy as well. however, i don't know whether it is the same problem like yours. I note that I can never connect at the HSM (125mbps) when it starts. After using the network for 30mins it suddenly jumps to HSM and claims "key absent" when I look at the line status. That's when the connection drops.

The Pre-N does not support (125mbps) --- the best measured throughput I have seen with the Pre-N is 88mbps at a distance of 55 feet using a Pre-N network adapter [F5D8000 or F5D8010] -- for measurement I am using a Fluke Portable LAN/Wireless Analyzer. And using the same Pre-N adapters at a distance of 110 feet I have seen 45mbps -- this was in a large private residence going through many obstacles. Insofar as non-pre-n network adapters my experience is with various "B" and "G" adapters from Linksys Dlink SMC USR and Netgear including their proprietary HSM [108mbps - 125mbps] I have never seen measured throughput that approaches Pre-N performance - not by a country mile -- although Pre-N Router delivered performance was much superior to that provided by their native routers/access points.

Most connection drops are related to malware and improper configuration and/or P2P issues as well as changes all the ISP’s are implanting specifically having to do with bandwidth shaping due to the massive abuse of P2P clients.

Thanks for your reply.

Now, having reset the router and changed a couple of security settings and virtual server settings, I have not experienced any drops for 24 hours already. However, the link status indicates that the connection is only around 48Mbps. My Pre-N pcmcia card is only 4 feet away from the router. How come it does not operate in the HSM mode, even I have enabled it in the router?? Is there any special parameter I need to set in the network card setting?

The Pre-N network adapters perform much better if your receiving device [computer/laptop] are at least 15 feet from the Router. The closer you are [less than 10 feet] to the Router the throughput performance will degenerate. If at all possible its also best to place the Router at higher elevations like attic space that's cooled If the attic space is not cooled your Router will fry. Router positioning is extremely important for the Pre-N.

Thanks alot! will try that.

I wonder if the router and pc might communicate better when close if you scramble the relative orientation of the three antennas? That might introduce enough difference in the signals going out to create the kind of multipath that MIMO thrives on. On the other hand, maybe being so close is overloading either the router or the pc?

I was hoping that dcox would shed some more light on the antenna placement possibilities -- I simple do not have time to do that kind of thing -- But I suspect that you're correct Jon. As you know dcox provided some very interesting observations based on his work.

I'd also love to try following some of his experiments. It would be intriguing to try a set of LARGE antennas on the router and see what kind of usable range I'd get. (Of course I should probably wrap my head in aluminum foil and wear lead underwear if I do this, considering how close the router is to my desk!).

I've been using Pre-N equipment very happily for the last several months (not sure - think it's six months now?). Anyway - I noticed recently that I, too, am seeing a lot of dropped wireless connections. Today, in fact, I was especially frustrated to find that one wirelessly connected pc seemed to keep dropping its connection after being connected for only about 2 to 3 minutes. Very strange, especially considering that the whole setup has been so stable for so long.

The PC in question is plugged into a good quality UPS, as is the router (F5D8230-4).

A couple of items I'm wondering about as potential culprits -
- driver version for the F5D8000 card? I haven't upgraded yet to the latest version on the Belkin site, although I'd consider that as an option.

- I AM running version 1.01.04 firmware in the router -- now I'm wondering if THAT is the culprit...

- Based on a couple of David's (mozerd) comments, I just tried letting Windows Zero Config utility take over management of the connection instead of using Belkin's utility...and lo and behold, the connection has stayed up for the past 2 hours with no issues. Not sure if that's a coincidence or not.

In general, I find it weird that I never had any dropped connection issues until recently. I wonder if a background Windows Update changed something, because I haven't modified the Pre-N setup since updating the router to 1.01.04 when it first appeared.

Thoughts?