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RandomDragon
join:2005-04-11
Hazard, KY

RandomDragon to claudeo

Member

to claudeo

Re: theft!

Allowing a person access to your wireless network for use of internet is theft of service. It is just like stealing cable. I don't know if it's illegal though, the law might have not catched up to this detail, but I'm sure that if it becomes a problem then cable companies will push congress to enstate a law.
russotto
join:2000-10-05
West Orange, NJ

russotto

Member

A person accessing my wireless network for use of internet might be reasonably considered theft of service if I didn't allow it. If I do allow it, it's at most breach of contract with my ISP -- and in my ISPs case, it's not even that.

Yes, the cable companies have gotten laws passed which (in their opinion) make just about everything theft -- for instance if you call to disconnect cable, and they don't do so, they call that "passive theft". But those laws don't apply to Internet service, so things aren't quite as silly there.

cacroll
Eventually, Prozac becomes normal
Premium Member
join:2002-07-25
Martinez, CA

cacroll

Premium Member

said by russotto:

A person accessing my wireless network for use of internet might be reasonably considered theft of service if I didn't allow it.


If you don't adequately protect your wireless LAN, you'll be damn lucky if all that you experience is theft of service. And if the leach doesn't cause you to exceed your cap, which is the only way you could be inconvenienced, you're not losing anything, so again, I don't think that's theft either.
cacroll

cacroll to RandomDragon

Premium Member

to RandomDragon
said by RandomDragon:

Allowing a person access to your wireless network for use of internet is theft of service.
Theft involves loss of property. The cable companies, who are supposed to be operating as a public entity (under a francise or as a monopoly), have made up this whole "Theft Of Service" bit.

The subscriber for service has paid for service. He is not inconvenienced, and in many cases, isn't even aware that his service is being leeched. The cable company doesn't service the leech.

If the cable companies would support their product more reliably, I'd be a bit more sympathetic. Who here hasn't called (as a subscriber):
Subscriber: "My cable is out".
Cable Operator: "That's awful. We can have a truck in your neighborhood ... let's see ... Can you be at home next Thursday afternoon?".
Subscriber: "That's 5 days from now. What do I do til then? Will you compensate me for renting movies to keep the kids happy?".
Cable Operator: "No we don't do that".

JoshNJ
Premium Member
join:2001-12-25
Freehold, NJ

JoshNJ to cacroll

Premium Member

to cacroll
said by cacroll:
said by russotto:

I don't think that's theft either.
Well, really depends on how the TOS is written, most say you cannot share the connection outside of your own home. So if you share it with a neighbor technically it would be theft. No different than going into an all-you-can-eat buffet and paying for one person, but having 2 people eat from the same plate.

cacroll
Eventually, Prozac becomes normal
Premium Member
join:2002-07-25
Martinez, CA

cacroll

Premium Member

said by JoshNJ:

said by cacroll:
said by russotto:

I don't think that's theft either.
Well, really depends on how the TOS is written


A TOS is a civil contract. Theft, which involves loss of physical property, is a criminal charge.

Big Cable can write their TOSs all they want, they are writing contracts, they are not writing criminal law. Sharing your network connection may be a TOS violation, and you (the connection owner) may get TOSed. But neither you, nor the leech, can be brought up on criminal charges for Theft.

Due diligence requires that you, the connection owner, secure your connection. By not doing so, you invite a civil charge of contributory negligence.
»www.britannica.com/eb/ar ··· =9026080
TheWiseGuy
Dog And Butterfly
MVM
join:2002-07-04
East Stroudsburg, PA

TheWiseGuy

MVM

said by cacroll:

A TOS is a civil contract. Theft, which involves loss of physical property, is a criminal charge.
Incorrect!! There are states that have Theft of Service Laws, theft does not have to be of property to be a crime in these states.

»www.uslegalforms.com/law ··· ices.htm
said by uslegalforms:

Such laws generally classify the crime as a misdemeanor or felony according to the value of the services stolen. Specific amounts vary by state. Local laws should be consulted for specific requirements in your area. The following is an example of a state statute dealing with theft of services:
masrotaj
join:2003-07-09
Fort Lauderdale, FL

masrotaj to RandomDragon

Member

to RandomDragon
Wow every time I use a computer (to access the net via someones broadband connection)other than my own ,by your definition I would be stealing .So when I access my dad network from my own to give remote assist I would be stealing his bandwidth. Your premise sir is not well thought out I suggest you rethink
John
harrycoon
join:2002-10-20
Winsted, CT

harrycoon to cacroll

Member

to cacroll
Its not theft?
someone is paying for that cable bandwidth.
who cares cable companies are trying to find more ways to make money on such nonsense.
so If I let my friend use my phone to call someone he is stealing?
hey Im paying for my cable service and If i got 8 computers hooked up to a router and it is using a shared cable ignal then so friggin what.
its not like each computer is using 1.5 meg of bandwidth?
they are sharing the 1.5 meg bandwidth.

wmgoat
If It's Not Broken, Don't Mess With It
Premium Member
join:2000-12-12
Huntley, IL

wmgoat to RandomDragon

Premium Member

to RandomDragon
said by RandomDragon:

Allowing a person access to your wireless network for use of internet is theft of service. It is just like stealing cable. I don't know if it's illegal though, the law might have not catched up to this detail, but I'm sure that if it becomes a problem then cable companies will push congress to enstate a law.
I agree wholeheartedly!

If you're not paying for it, and you have access to is because of someone else who is paying for it, ethically, its stealing.