Networking → [Other] Ethernet over 6 wires?

There is just no way to setup ethernet on 6 wires is there? Trying to get a place setup for internet access, and so far they've shot down every proposal due to cost. (wifi, running new lines, etc)

The buildings are wired with Cat 5 for the phones, only 1 pair being used. HPNA was a thought, but the adapters and routers are too expensive for the budget.

Would a force 10T half duplex setting on all equipment possibly work on 6 wires? I'm thinking not, but I thought I'd check with the experts.

They also have a coax line that junctions in the leasing office, currently serving a shared TV feed. But I've never seen consumer gear that could run a network off it. (dedicated cable company provided internet is not an option due to the wiring configuration)

Not true at all.

Ethernet only uses four wires. It does need an 8 conductor connector, but only four of the wires (2 pairs) are used.

Holding a connector in front of you with the pins pointed away from you, numbered from the left to right, pins 1,2, 3 and 5 are used.

Only pins 1, 2 , 3 & 6 (not 5) are used for 10/100 Mbps ethernet, all 8 pins (1-8) are used for Gigabit ethernet.

Hmm...learn something new everyday....thanks guys.

It should work by using only 4 wire. There may be interference cos one uses AC and the other uses DC (i do not know which is which). If they are setting up a new place and do not even try to do something semi decent (such as new drops, new equippment), walk away, we are not going pay you.

Yes. six not five.
Orange and green.
I need to type more carefully.

course this is only true for 10bt and 100bt. gig ethernet uses all four pairs.

You can also bridge ethernet at 11mbs over 2 wires using "PNA" - see »www.homepna.org

Forcing 10 meg and using 6 wires may work, but it could end up biting you in the ass. If it doesn't you could be stuck with all that work and no pay at the end.

Wireless is probably the cheapest but most error prone.

You know your situation better than anyone, but I wouldn't put my name on a hack job. I'd lay out the alternatives and cost and let it ride. If they get a hack job they'll end up coming to you to straighten it out later because you were at least honest with them.

Hello?
Maybe you should actually find out what you are talking about before posting advice?

As has already been stated here, standard 10meg ethernet never uses more than 4 wires.

It only uses the orange and green pairs. The other 4 wires in the cable (brown and blue pairs) do absolutely nothing most of the time (tho some people (like me) do run phone lines over them so they can get phone and ethernet on just one cable run)

You only need 2 twsited pairs (4 wires total) to run 10 meg (or hundred meg for that matter) ethernet. six wires is actually two wires to many.

There's more to a successful connection than continuity.

What about signalling getting from end to end. That's what I was talking about. I run some ethernet past 200 horsepower motors and UTP won't work. Fiber does.

Can you personally guarantee that the voltage of the phone line won't interfere with the network signalling in all cases? The people that wrote the standards couldn't.

Nice, but not what was being discussed. The question was simply if ethernet could be run with only 6 wires. No one was discussing unusual applications like running the cable right by a motor (where obviously the ignition system is going to intefere with the signals)

Telphone signals being in the same jacket are being discussed. There's no gap there. There's a 96V ring voltage applied occasionally and a ~60V constant voltage. These will interfere with the network signal.

There is of course a separation of two insulation thicknesses.

The question being discussed is, is that two insulation thicknesses enough to guarantee consistent network performance.

I think it may at 10 meg with short runs, but I wouldn't guarantee it. If it were me I'd pull new cables and do it correctly. I sure as hell wouldn't guarantee the performance of this set up to the customer. If they said try it after I warned them (and they guaranteed me they'd pay me no matter the outcome) then I'd limit the performance to 10 meg and give it a try. I sure as hell would never use them as a reference.

Every one knows that 6 wires is enough to run 100 meg ethernet and phone signals. What was being discussed is would it work.

OK. Put it this way-

I have several runs of over 100 feet where I run phone over the blue pair.

Even with the line ringing (I strpped off about 1 inch of insulation from the end of the blue pair and had my assistant hold the bare wires in his hand -- when he gasped and droped the wires in suprise I knew the ring voltage was there) I see no transmission errors at layer 2 or 3 (ie- no checksum errors, runts, etc) running 100mbs. Now there MAY be issues at layer1, but if there are, it's not enough that it is impacting performance in any way that I can detect.

YES, I agree it should be avoided. I agree the voltage from the ringer can screw things up.

But in real life, it works well enough to get by on a budget.

It was my understanding that the original 10baseT spec specifically took this into consideration (running phone over the spare pairs) and allows for this. I could be wrong, but I have heard that from several of the people that taught me.

In a perfect world I'd have multimode run to every desktop and single mode between all the buildings I service.

More to the point, are you prepared for the liability involved in this job?

Cat5 was to carry either voice or data, not both at the same time.( Its possible to do so, but there are risks in carrying both in the same jacket.)

Hmmm..

10bt doesn't even require cat5. the spec is cat3 or better. Don't need cat5 until you get up to 100bt.

I coulda SWORN when 10bt came out the spec specifically allowed for using the spare pairs for voice.
Again, I could be dead wrong on that.

I also recall this was NOT true for 100bt. It might work, (it does for me) but not a good idea and not within spec.

Then again,I have seen people crazy enough to run 100bt over 8 conductor silver satin, and it actually worked (shudder)

In a decent corporate environment where liability often outweighs immediate budget concerns (as it should, since it can mean even BIGGER budget concerns down the road), the answer is obvious - do it right.

In smaller shops, they often would rather try it cheaply, then fix it later if there are problems.

Facts:
1. 2 pairs is enough
2. ethernet and phone on same cable, OK in short run, wuestionable in log run. Who is going to pick up the tab when something goes wrong and when reputation is on the line.
3. like I said b4, if they are so cheap in setting up a new place, I will walk away cos I cannot imagine the time when I am about to collect my check.

Bottom line, it should works, it may be very reliable or semi-reliable. May be you have to lower to speed to comprise. I WOULD NOT DO IT.

Most of the places that are cheap enough to do that sorta thing are not going to be hiring a real cabling contractor anyway. Most likely running the wire themselves, or hiring the cheapest electrician they can find to pull the wire, and then terminating it themselves. I know, I work for a place like that.

I make it clear to my bosses when we do stuff like that that there very possibly will be problems down the road. we wind up doing that sort of thing a lot for temp spaces where we will have someone working for only a few weeks or maybe a couple of months, and then plan to remodel. Usually the gamble pays off.

If it works out for you, god bless you. You work there and you have no choice. I am more talking in term of an outside contractor. I would not have taken the job, period. Because if something goes wrong, guess who they are going to first complain to. I rather go home, being jobless, bite my nail and watch judge judy pounding on the unprepaired poor souls.