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[Other] VOIP Scams and their affects» www.cavebear.com/cbblog- ··· 183.htmlBlog report from the company lawyer of a company I know well that is now going out of business because of these scams. Read up about it and hope it does not become more prevalent. If any one has any idea on how this can be fought so our company does not go under please post the links and ideas. We were given a bill for a bit over $20 k American and that means the company will be closing doors. I admit I loved the service and many of the customers did as well, but this kind of scam may soon be affecting the bigger guys and bringing them down as well, or at least severely denting their profits and creating higher bills for the customers. Nufone has fallen on hard times because of it and is probably going to be shut down.  |
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Solution:
Just don't pay the bill. There is little the foreign entity can do, except cut off access from that providers network. If they do, who cares? |
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said by lstevens:Solution: Just don't pay the bill. There is little the foreign entity can do, except cut off access from that providers network. If they do, who cares? The bill is assessed to the upstream provider first. So there is no way we can deny the payment. We have to pay the co for the bandwidth charges. Most if not all voip providers are set up the same way. Vonage is different because they physically own a data center, Nufone.net however does not, and many smaller guys don't as well. |
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So,that means if you don't pay the bill, that the upstream provider will cut you off altogether? If so, is it possible to work with the upstream provider not to pay the bill as I described, or do they not want to get involved? |
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said by lstevens:So,that means if you don't pay the bill, that the upstream provider will cut you off altogether? If so, is it possible to work with the upstream provider not to pay the bill as I described, or do they not want to get involved? Yeap cut off and removed from every data center , along with them keeping the equipment. Which totals a bit over the bill. They claim to not want to get involved , but I am willing to bet they can be held liable for letting the fraud go on for so long. Little voips know the provider because it is the only one who updates every other week and not daily. |
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Thanks for your informed and precise information on this important topic. Thank you also for your educational answers to my questions. I and others will watch this thread carefully. Please keep us updated! |
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said by lstevens:Thanks for your informed and precise information on this important topic. Thank you also for your educational answers to my questions. I and others will watch this thread carefully. Please keep us updated! That I will. I know the same person has hit broadvoice as of late for a lot more then he hit nufone. Off to find a lawyer who will work on a contingency basis, retaining a lawyer is nearly double the bill, and the half million in fraud charges brought up on them might make them some good money. scams like this really are hurting the industry as a whole. How long before more Nigerian type scams come out of this ? |
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to BosstonesOwn
Wow. Very interesting scam. I had no idea the VOIP providers had to go up against scams like that. That's big money.
And I thought consumers had all the risk with ripoffs like www.telextreme.com with their "MLM" pay up front to make millions scheme. At least their scam is only a couple of hundred bucks, not hundreds of thousands. |
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said by prestonlewis:Wow. Very interesting scam. I had no idea the VOIP providers had to go up against scams like that. That's big money. And I thought consumers had all the risk with ripoffs like www.telextreme.com with their "MLM" pay up front to make millions scheme. At least their scam is only a couple of hundred bucks, not hundreds of thousands. Indeed , problem is many of them don't speak up about it and when it happens pass the buck on the customer. Nufone refuses to do that and fight about it so nufone does not have to. |
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ejrobinson
Premium Member
join:2003-05-16
Miami Beach, FL |
to BosstonesOwn
Voip operators use 3rd party companies, large ones, to ensure call completion and pay the rates set by them. This means they don't just put through calls to say ruritania unless they have a contract with level3, global crossing, or another such company.
Let's say the kingdom of ruritania has some numbers with a very high charge to call. It is up to the call completion companies to learn this and pass on such charges to its customers, i.e. the voip carriers, who charge accordingly in order to cover their cost and generate some profit.
Major countries like those in europe all setout their tariffs openly. Thus, for example, if you call a 336-xxxx-xxxx in france, that is to a cell phone. The call costs at least $0.15 to the call completion company, which will bill the voip carriers to cover its cost plus a profit. Similarly, the voip carrier will charge its cost plus a profit. Thus, calls to a cell phone in france are charged at $0.18 or higher. There are no surprises.
-er |
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said by ejrobinson:Voip operators use 3rd party companies, large ones, to ensure call completion and pay the rates set by them. This means they don't just put through calls to say ruritania unless they have a contract with level3, global crossing, or another such company. Let's say the kingdom of ruritania has some numbers with a very high charge to call. It is up to the call completion companies to learn this and pass on such charges to its customers, i.e. the voip carriers, who charge accordingly in order to cover their cost and generate some profit. Major countries like those in europe all setout their tariffs openly. Thus, for example, if you call a 336-xxxx-xxxx in france, that is to a cell phone. The call costs at least $0.15 to the call completion company, which will bill the voip carriers to cover its cost plus a profit. Similarly, the voip carrier will charge its cost plus a profit. Thus, calls to a cell phone in france are charged at $0.18 or higher. There are no surprises. -er Yea but the billing gets passed from carrier to clec to voip provider in this case and it becomes a nasty mess. Not always fun for the voip providers. |
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to BosstonesOwn
BosstonesOwn, They claim to not want to get involved , but aren't they actually already involved? By them knowing that this scam is in fact going on and paying the scum who set up this scam aren't they an accessory to the crime then? I really don't understand how they can hold you liable. I've heard stories of people on there personal computer getting trojans that install dialers and get charged these ridiculous amount of money from the phone company. Well, for the most part the phone company knows this is going on and they stand behind there customers. I mean it would just be very bad PR to hang your customer out to dry all the while you still make a profit off of a scam you know is going on. Please keep us all informed. |
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actually that is what we are fighting about. The clec is not fighting for us because they really can't in their position , the clec resells for that upstream provider and they fear losing their pops in the area. So hopefully we can bring this to their attention and hope they actually listen , but when creditors come knocking it's either pay up or get disconnected and a lawsuit filed. as of 12 am central they are going to pull 2 of the 4 links the other 2 it's a good thing are supplied by level 3 and global crossing , who even blocked the calls after it was shown to be a scam and credited the account. |
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to BosstonesOwn
Can anyone post anonymously and give links to show who the scammers are so forum members can do some research on them? DSLR doesn't want names posted specifically due to liability, only links that might show names. This would be an interesting topic to explore if we had something to start with. Seems the FCC should be able to close this loophold and shield small VOIP providers from this ripoff. You know the big telcos wouldn't stand for it. |
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They are from germany and amsterdam but the names I dont think any one can post. Maybe some one will but I have to doubt it for now.. at least until they are done investigating. |
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