Topic 'Re: War On Piracy' in forum '' - dslreports.com http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-War-On-Piracy-13959379 en Wed, 23 Mar 2022 15:01:04 EDT Wed, 23 Mar 2022 15:01:04 EDT Re: War On Piracy http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-War-On-Piracy-13983210 said by time to lower prices:

said by "Samuel30":
war against piracy is war against the people freedom to choose! it's forcing people to buy stuff that they can't even afford to pay because it so outrageously priced.

Amen. At least someone here "Gets it".
Exactly, I think most thing should cost next to nothing so even the poor can afford them but no, the rich wants to keep it to themselves. They don't wanna share anything. They make up a ridiculous price that no one can afford to pay. It has been like this for the last decade, we are grown tired and sick of it. The rich are getting richer because those who pay into it are paying them a lot more then they deserve. Sick of working our ass off so the rich can take a easy. How does it work? We are like a servant worker aka slaves, who does hard work for little pay. That's not right. We are treated like an inferior being who's intelligent are far above an ape. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-War-On-Piracy-13983210 Mon, 25 Jul 2005 20:53:12 EDT Re: War On Piracy http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-War-On-Piracy-13982031 said by time to lower prices:

Those resellers of counterfeit copies surely sell quite a few of them, which proves that the "fair market price" (for a legitimate copy), is far lower than what MS chooses to price theirs at. If the "fair market price" were truely at the zero line, then even those low-price knock-off resellers wouldn't sell *any* copies - because their would-be "customers" would simply be duplicating those works directly instead. You are forgetting that it costs the company (Microsoft in your example) money to make the product to begin with, this cost does not need to be recouped by the counterfeiter, but it does by the software manufacturer. The software manufacturer has higher costs than the counterfeiter so it has to charge higher prices, the fair market price will reflect that.
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Save the whales. Collect the whole set.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-War-On-Piracy-13982031 Mon, 25 Jul 2005 18:19:03 EDT Re: War On Piracy http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-War-On-Piracy-13981865 said by "Samuel30":
war against piracy is war against the people freedom to choose! it's forcing people to buy stuff that they can't even afford to pay because it so outrageously priced.

Amen. At least someone here "Gets it".]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-War-On-Piracy-13981865 Mon, 25 Jul 2005 17:57:38 EDT Re: War On Piracy http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-War-On-Piracy-13981856 said by "AthlGrond":
Fair market value is the price someone is willing to pay for a product.

Isn't that essentially what I said? If the price is low enough, then it is a "fair" price to pay for the product, and thus consumers interested in that product will pay that price. But if that price is too high, then they will instead look elsewhere, such as cheap knockoffs, illegal bootleg copies, etc.

This is of course speaking of "true demand", and not "false demand", in which someone makes illegal copies simply because they can, rather than because of demand, and that they would not have otherwise considered purchasing either a legitimate or counterfeit copy. It's the "free line" - where someone chooses to acquire something simply because they can, because it has zero cost to them, rather than any real desire or demand for the item in question. It's a personal gratification of the means, and not a desire to possess the ends.
said by "AthlGrond":
What you are describing it the price to prevent shoplifting, AKA the "klept market value".

No, because that "price" is always going to be zero, because there are always going to be those sorts of people that shoplift or what have you, purely for the thrill of doing so, and irrespective of the particular goods or the cost of those goods. So that does not form a valid price point to argue around.

For a clear example of what I am talking about - look the markets in which content and software piracy is rampant, and the gov't essentially turns a blind eye, such as in some far-eastern countries. Places where you can get entire MS OSes or app suites for pennies on the dollar, for a bootleg edition. Those resellers of counterfeit copies surely sell quite a few othem, which proves that the "fair market price" (for a legitimate copy), is far lower than what MS chooses to price theirs at. If the "fair market price" were truely at the zero line, then even those low-price knock-off resellers wouldn't sell *any* copies - because their would-be "customers" would simply be duplicating those works directly instead. Understanding these perhaps-elusive market dynamics is why there are such issues with piracy and problems with enforcement worldwide. Companies either don't understand, or refuse to admit or believe in the simple implications - that they *must* lower their prices, to reduce piracy. Nothing short of that will truely help, short of enslaving the entire population of consumers, at which point there would surely be a revolt.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-War-On-Piracy-13981856 Mon, 25 Jul 2005 17:56:05 EDT Re: War On Piracy http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-War-On-Piracy-13981083
He may have started with some money, but he made more money than anyone else on the planet. If you can get the same return on whatever money you have right now as he did, you could retire a very wealthy person.

He has given away more money to charity than he started life with, and he plans to give the rest of his wealth to charity over his lifetime. So he must be greedy!

Anyway, good luck with your revenge for him treating you so badly.
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Save the whales. Collect the whole set.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-War-On-Piracy-13981083 Mon, 25 Jul 2005 16:11:05 EDT Re: War On Piracy http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-War-On-Piracy-13980098 said by AthlGrond:

said by DONKEYKONG01:

man's greed is a serious sin that can cause us all to kill one another such as world war I, world war II and the cold wars. each person lives only to be stepped on if they cannot compete. we fight others only to possess another's personal property, land, resources. it's like saying if I can't have it,let's blow it to smithereen.

seriously, i dont care about money period. if you have a billion like bill gate and you're an ass to me, I will treat you the same way. I don't care how rich you are, you got their because of luck and you have put many others below.
don't get any crazy ideas that I will hand out money just so others will love me or think I'm doing some good deeds because itisn't.
Nice socialist rant. Very informative as to where you are coming from on pricing and terminology. Thanks for including it.

BTW Bill Gates making money has little to do with luck, he's just smarter than you are. :D
smarter??? he come from a rich family, he was born wealthy! give it up already, your post is just to put down one another, that's pathetic. thanks for ridiculing me!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-War-On-Piracy-13980098 Mon, 25 Jul 2005 13:57:50 EDT Re: War On Piracy http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-War-On-Piracy-13978772 said by DONKEYKONG01:

man's greed is a serious sin that can cause us all to kill one another such as world war I, world war II and the cold wars. each person lives only to be stepped on if they cannot compete. we fight others only to possess another's personal property, land, resources. it's like saying if I can't have it,let's blow it to smithereen.

seriously, i dont care about money period. if you have a billion like bill gate and you're an ass to me, I will treat you the same way. I don't care how rich you are, you got their because of luck and you have put many others below.
don't get any crazy ideas that I will hand out money just so others will love me or think I'm doing some good deeds because itisn't.
Nice socialist rant. Very informative as to where you are coming from on pricing and terminology. Thanks for including it.

BTW Bill Gates making money has little to do with luck, he's just smarter than you are. :D
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Save the whales. Collect the whole set.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-War-On-Piracy-13978772 Mon, 25 Jul 2005 11:01:58 EDT Re: War On Piracy http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-War-On-Piracy-13978743 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-War-On-Piracy-13978743 Mon, 25 Jul 2005 10:57:51 EDT Re: War On Piracy http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-War-On-Piracy-13976840 said by AthlGrond:

said by DONKEYKONG01:

things that are easily produced such as games, movies, music should be given out for free or next to nothing.
They are.

The games that are easy to make are essentially worthless and are given away for free or at extremely low prices! Hurray!

The ones that are worth playing cost an incredible amount of money to make.

Make your own games if you think they are easy to make. Plenty of good games out there that you can try to emulate so you don't even have to come up with a good idea...
man's greed is a serious sin that can cause us all to kill one another such as world war I, world war II and the cold wars. each person lives only to be stepped on if they cannot compete. we fight others only to possess another's personal property, land, resources. it's like saying if I can't have it,let's blow it to smithereen.

seriously, i dont care about money period. if you have a billion like bill gate and you're an ass to me, I will treat you the same way. I don't care how rich you are, you got their because of luck and you have put many others below.
don't get any crazy ideas that I will hand out money just so others will love me or think I'm doing some good deeds because itisn't.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-War-On-Piracy-13976840 Mon, 25 Jul 2005 00:58:08 EDT Re: War On Piracy http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-War-On-Piracy-13968790 said by time to lower prices:

You mean, the "fair market value" of their products - the actual value at which it becomes worthwhile to purchase a legitimate copy, rather than just an illegal duplicate.Fair market value is the price someone is willing to pay for a product.

What you are describing it the price to prevent shoplifting, AKA the "klept market value".
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Save the whales. Collect the whole set.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-War-On-Piracy-13968790 Sat, 23 Jul 2005 21:22:02 EDT Re: War On Piracy http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-War-On-Piracy-13968310 said by "AthlGrond":
The nickle and dime is the revenue that the software companies might have made in sales if their wares were priced to the level that would please the P2P pirates.

You mean, the "fair market value" of their products - the actual value at which it becomes worthwhile to purchase a legitimate copy, rather than just an illegal duplicate.

The real reason that these companies are "losing money due to piracy", is because they refuse to acknowlege that simple economic fact, and lower their prices to make them competitive in a true free market economy (*).

The problem is compounded by the fact that companies have allowed themselves to become deluded by the rules of the US's restricted market economies, and the whisperings of the supply-side cartel proponents, such as the RIAA/MPAA/etc. But the tables have turned, and the internet allows anyone, anywhere, to become a mfg/distributor of information-based goods, for nearly zero incremental cost. In that model, economies based on "false scarcity" cannot exist, and the walls will come tumbling down, eventually.

(*) A truely free market does not ban piracy, but rather, forces it to compete with legitmate goods on an even footing.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-War-On-Piracy-13968310 Sat, 23 Jul 2005 19:55:31 EDT Re: War On Piracy http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-War-On-Piracy-13966301 said by DONKEYKONG01:

things that are easily produced such as games, movies, music should be given out for free or next to nothing.They are.

The games that are easy to make are essentially worthless and are given away for free or at extremely low prices! Hurray!

The ones that are worth playing cost an incredible amount of money to make.

Make your own games if you think they are easy to make. Plenty of good games out there that you can try to emulate so you don't even have to come up with a good idea...
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Save the whales. Collect the whole set.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-War-On-Piracy-13966301 Sat, 23 Jul 2005 14:20:48 EDT Re: War On Piracy http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-War-On-Piracy-13966062 said by fishie:
You know, I have thought about this many times, but it's people who put the importance on the money. If people wanted granite, then all of this would be targeted at granite and the big bad rock quarries.

If we became a cashless society, then the hot commodity would be sugar, flour, etc. People who produced that would be the 'Microsoft' of the time. Of course, this is all just history since that has already happened.

Don't get me wrong. I do agree with you, but it's people that have to change....not the commodity.


war against piracy is war against the people freedom to choose! it's forcing people to buy stuff that they can't even afford to pay because it so outrageously priced.
things that are easily produced such as games, movies, music should be given out for free or next to nothing. the idea behind htis is for all to enjoy it even if their short of pocket change!
if they think they can just take a person flip them upside down and get all the savings for no good reason, they can go to hell because god this not tolerate this kind of bs. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-War-On-Piracy-13966062 Sat, 23 Jul 2005 13:41:25 EDT Re: War On Piracy http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-War-On-Piracy-13965172
If we became a cashless society, then the hot commodity would be sugar, flour, etc. People who produced that would be the 'Microsoft' of the time. Of course, this is all just history since that has already happened.

Don't get me wrong. I do agree with you, but it's people that have to change....not the commodity.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-War-On-Piracy-13965172 Sat, 23 Jul 2005 11:11:15 EDT Re: War On Piracy http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-War-On-Piracy-13961145 aren't you guys sick of money being an object? something to worship and to be treated as a personal property? when will this end? do away with money! become a cashless society!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-War-On-Piracy-13961145 Fri, 22 Jul 2005 19:44:13 EDT Re: War On Piracy http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-War-On-Piracy-13959681 said by one_bored_si:

There is no nickle and dime about P2P, its all without tender exchange. The real thieves are the ones making money off pirated software, music and movies.
The nickle and dime is the revenue that the software companies might have made in sales if their wares were priced to the level that would please the P2P pirates.

I agree that the real money (the only verifiable money) being made is by the ones selling counterfeits.
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Save the whales. Collect the whole set.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-War-On-Piracy-13959681 Fri, 22 Jul 2005 16:37:43 EDT Re: War On Piracy http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-War-On-Piracy-13959567 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-War-On-Piracy-13959567 Fri, 22 Jul 2005 16:23:20 EDT Re: War On Piracy http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-War-On-Piracy-13959511
Of course there really are international piracy rings that sell pirated software as the real thing. I just hope they concentrate on those operations rather than the nickle and dime P2P varieties.
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Save the whales. Collect the whole set.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-War-On-Piracy-13959511 Fri, 22 Jul 2005 16:16:27 EDT War On Piracy http://www.dslreports.com/forum/War-On-Piracy-13959379 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/War-On-Piracy-13959379 Fri, 22 Jul 2005 15:57:22 EDT